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HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,360
The idea of rebooting/reshooting the final season is such a bizarre idea. I feel like the Snyder Cut got people's heads all fucked up about how failed properties are going to be handled from here on out.
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,888
Haha holy shit I was knee deep in his theory videos until the final few weeks of the show... When it was clear that all hope was lost.

I enjoyed their video's a lot but you could see their content was suffering and getting thinner as the last 2 seasons went on, they are great at comparing books and show but the last season was rough on them, they got nothing to work with.
 

Ribs

Member
Dec 10, 2017
488
The thing is that they can retcon any season they want with Bran having the power to 'travel' back in time and change events. I could see a scenario where the results of Season 8 lead to an even greater disaster
(maybe an undead Dany returns and lays waste to the kingdom)
and Bran uses his power to change something key in the past, likely before Season 8 began.
He drinks a cup of coffee so he wouldn't go to sleep at the most crucial time of the entire series.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,106
The idea of rebooting/reshooting the final season is such a bizarre idea. I feel like the Snyder Cut got people's heads all fucked up about how failed properties are going to be handled from here on out.

Why do people keep forgetting that Snyder Cut only happened because 90% of that footage was already shot in some capacity? Do they really think HBO is going to spend $200+ million to remake from scratch an entire season that might not even be better received than the current one? Like, what happens if somehow HBO fucks up again and remade Season 8 is ever worse recieved than the first one? Do people think they'll shrug and go "oh well, third time's the charm, right?"
 

Modi

Member
Oct 29, 2017
773
It's funny the finale you can set it for seasons to come if they wanted to lol. even the hardest one like Cersei you can say she is in a coma!
and the Night King teleport to that baby ice shrine or something and comeback! .. season 9 is way to believable than remaking season 8 to me.
 

Toth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,059
It's funny the finale you can set it for seasons to come if they wanted to lol. even the hardest one like Cersei you can say she is in a coma!
and the Night King teleport to that baby ice shrine or something and comeback! .. season 9 is way to believable than remaking season 8 to me.

Yeah, they can continue the story or retcon the areas that didn't work through Bran. Even Tyrion said 'ask me again in 10 years' if they did the right thing. Not hard to poick up 10 years in the future and see where things have headed since season 8 ended.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
That would be terrible. If Red Priests could just resurrect everyone at will that would ruin the stakes.

Melisandre resurrecting Jon was a one-off event, Thoros resurrecting Beric was just there to set it up (and there's Stoneheart in the books, but that's a whole other thing). Leave it at that, no more resurrections

Maybe they will do a sequel one day, but Dany should stay dead

You say it's a one off event and then list three other characters that have been brought back from the dead, lol.

If they really wanted to do it, they could do it for Dany.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
I don't know about TNG but Star Trek TOS very famously had the opposite situation of Game of Thrones lol

My point is that GoT already exponentially increased its viewership year over year, hitting a peak with S8 and the finale that, even if people absolutely loved the ending, how much more room is there for a now-defunct series to grow? I bring up Breaking Bad because it's the same thing: a show that started relatively small (much smaller than GoT's first year), was discovered on streaming, WOM caused a surge in viewership in its later seasons, then peaked with huge numbers in the final year. But that popularity didn't translate into an equally or greater life-after-death run for the show on streaming, nor did it carry over into Better Call Saul. I don't know what genre has to do with it either - arguably something like fantasy is a harder barrier to entry for a mass audience than a more straightforward western/crime drama like BB.

As for whether people want to revisit Westeros post-S8, well, it's kind of hard to see if it'll track like other fantasy IP since there's been no new GoT product yet right? House of the Dragon will be the first real test of how viable the franchise is after GoT's finale, though I also don't expect that, no matter how good or bad the show itself is, it'll just ever see numbers similar to GoT as is usually the case with the spin-offs. For now, it's probably a little bit instructive to look at the HBO tweet in the OP, which has 16x as many likes as many comments. Even if you think every single comment is super negative, that's way more positive sentiment than negative. I don't want to read too much into the engagement on a single tweet, I just think the degree to which many think this brand is totally dead now is very overstated.

House of the Dragon will probably have decent ratings to start with just out of curiousity, but the brand took massive damage with season 8 which pretty much everyone agrees on. My point was just if it were true that the majority of "casual/regular" viewers loved season 8, the show and its characters would still be very popular IMO.

A large scale fantasy universe doesn't just fall out of public consciousness because a story has concluded, Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter, Star Trek, we see massive fan base demand for more content and say what you want about GRRM but the world of GoT is as detailed/rich as any of those other IP probably moreso than some.

Season 8 had to be a giant, giant stinker for the franchise to fall to the place its at now.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
I don't understand the OP.

The real ending? There are three possibilities

They go back and change it -Good luck trying to redo season 8 and bring everyone back.
Where they stopped isn't the end of A Dream for Spring (Unlikely, someone would have come out and said this after the backlash)
They plan to continue the story after A Dream for Spring (Why? The idea of a bittersweet ending is one where everything isn't perfect but there's hope for a brighter future, hence a dream for spring. Spring represents a new beginning, hope, the asoiaf world isn't there yet, it is merely a dream. You see this in the show ending as well where things aren't perfect.

Money would be my guess.

HBO will want to bring back Kit Harrington, Emilia Clarke, Sophie Turner, etc. in the roles they made iconic.

Same reason Disney obviously wanted more Star Wars and brought back Mark Hamil, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, etc.
 

Curufinwe

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,924
DE
House of the Dragon will probably have decent ratings to start with just out of curiousity, but the brand took massive damage with season 8 which pretty much everyone agrees on. My point was just if it were true that the majority of "casual/regular" viewers loved season 8, the show and its characters would still be very popular IMO.

So if House of the Dragon comes out and has great ratings, pretty much everyone is wrong.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Can't get people interested in spinoffs.

Hype for or Hate watch the continuation or remake. I can sort of see the logic in giving it a go if the IP has gone down the tubes that much.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
So if House of the Dragon comes out and has great ratings, pretty much everyone is wrong.

I mean it is still the inheritor of the throne (no pun intended) of the biggest TV phenomenon in modern history, I'm sure some people will at least give the first episode or two a chance.

But if season 8 had not gone badly, the demand for HoTD would be monstrous. I think things like Blu-Ray releases of the show and merchandising of the show would also continue to be very popular.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,670
House of the Dragon will probably have decent ratings to start with just out of curiousity, but the brand took massive damage with season 8 which pretty much everyone agrees on. My point was just if it were true that the majority of "casual/regular" viewers loved season 8, the show and its characters would still be very popular IMO.

Oh I definitely agree that it is probably not true that 99% of regular viewers loved season 8 lol. And I say that as someone who thought the ending was fine. I think my anecdotal experience leans more positive than a lot of people here, but even then my friends and family reactions are usually split between not liking it and thinking it was satisfying enough. No one I know unabashedly loved it.

But I also don't think that means a majority of people don't care about this world or its characters anymore either. I think the people going "S8 killed the franchise for me, I want nothing to do with any more GoT content" are probably in the minority, and a somewhat small minority at that. Even if House of the Dragon and the other spin-offs never post GoT-sized audience numbers, I think they'll still do pretty well (assuming they're good) because a lot of people actually do want more Westeros stories. And I feel HBO would not be developing a half-dozen different projects if their own market research showed little to no interest in the brand.

Personally, I think the degree to which people say a franchise has been killed stone dead is almost always overexaggerated. I don't even mean this specifically about GoT, but in general. How many major blockbuster IPs do you know of that are just completely fucking dead where no new entry garners any kind of attention? Batman & Robin "killed" that franchise but less than a decade later The Dark Knight was the biggest movie in the world. That's really not that much time. The prequels were supposed to have killed Star Wars, but a decade later The Force Awakens puts up an insane box office run. Most franchises, no matter their low points, can swing back to major success with the right take. If S8 really did kill all interest in the franchise, then HotD and all these other spin offs are going to be DOA right out of the gate. But I just don't think that'll be the case. That doesn't mean most people secretly loved the finale, just that their feelings of the finale don't necessarily dictate a lack of interest in the brand in the long run.
 

Zippedpinhead

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,801
I'm still broken about having the "long night" episode from season 8 spoiled for me which caused me to just skip the whole last season.

I'll be interested once something is there... maybe
 

wakuboys

Banned
Jun 27, 2019
75
I don't see a sequel movie working very well. What if it focused on just one of the characters instead? Logan worked, but could "Tyrion" or "Rhaegar" work? I'd like to see them try, but I don't have my hopes up. I mean, imagine if they released movies where they focused on each character. Brienne would get a movie like a Dunk and Egg novella. Tyrion would get one about his trying to handle the new politics of King's Landing. Sansa with her struggles up north (Cruel houses, Ironborn perhaps). Jon with his struggles way up north (Wildlings, politics, magic). Arya with her struggles west (Sea monsters & exploration, maybe sails past Asshai to be more horror-ific). That kind of thing. Could even do a whole thing where they meet up again after their individual journeys. The final act would be Bran being a villain intentionally to kick start a new age of heroes or something like that. Crossing my fingers for zombie Jaime.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,976
You say it's a one off event and then list three other characters that have been brought back from the dead, lol.

If they really wanted to do it, they could do it for Dany.

It's still a limited number. Stoneheart is pretty much a zombie and directly resurrected by Beric. Who is a complete side character.

GoT is all about "everyone can die". So you have to be really careful with bringing people back. Or main characters dying loses its impact.

If GRRM pulled red priest resurrections out of his ass after Jon's death, that would be some deus ex machina shit. So you need Thoros/Beric there to foreshadow it.
But more than one main character coming back from the dead (as their real self, not a zombie) would be jumping the shark
 

Sunfyre

Member
Jan 15, 2020
588
I mean if they'd tease something I am sure they would use something like "Winter is returning!"
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
It's still a limited number. Stoneheart is pretty much a zombie and directly resurrected by Beric. Who is a complete side character.

GoT is all about "everyone can die". So you have to be really careful with bringing people back. Or main characters dying loses its impact.

If GRRM pulled red priest resurrections out of his ass after Jon's death, that would be some deus ex machina shit. So you need Thoros/Beric there to foreshadow it.
But more than one main character coming back from the dead (as their real self, not a zombie) would be jumping the shark

I guess the bigger question is, is HBO even allowed to do "season 9", would GRRM let them do it and just say the TV universe is separate from his books completely?

Because if given that choice, I think HBO insists on Dany being brought back. The 8 finale kind of leaves it ambiguous, but they know the character has a huge fan base and Emilia Clarke would probably be down for it.

Since they didn't do Lady Stoneheart in the show, they justify it as "well we get one more resurrection to use".

It would also naturally propel the plot for a season 9 if Dany is back from the East and hellbent on revenge, well you have a dramatic thrust in place already.

Now I'm not saying it would be anything great writing wise, but it would work and probably net HBO fairly good ratings (higher than any of the GoT spin-offs or any other show they have currently most likely).
 
Oct 27, 2017
404
I guess the bigger question is, is HBO even allowed to do "season 9", would GRRM let them do it and just say the TV universe is separate from his books completely?

Because if given that choice, I think HBO insists on Dany being brought back. The 8 finale kind of leaves it ambiguous, but they know the character has a huge fan base and Emilia Clarke would probably be down for it.

Since they didn't do Lady Stoneheart in the show, they justify it as "well we get one more resurrection to use".

It would also naturally propel the plot for a season 9 if Dany is back from the East and hellbent on revenge, well you have a dramatic thrust in place already.

Now I'm not saying it would be anything great writing wise, but it would work and probably net HBO fairly good ratings (higher than any of the GoT spin-offs or any other show they have currently most likely).
Hbo likely can do whatever they want. But they value the relationship with GRRM as demonstrated by their new five year deal with him.

I don't think the actors would be down to return as easily as you think. Especially Emilia and Kit (though Kit may not have as many options).
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Hbo likely can do whatever they want. But they value the relationship with GRRM as demonstrated by their new five year deal with him.

I don't think the actors would be down to return as easily as you think. Especially Emilia and Kit (though Kit may not have as many options).

My understanding is HBO is not allowed to do any shows in the time period after AsoIaF is supposed to end, so I don't know what the situation is.

Emilia Clarke is doing OK post-Thrones but it's not like she's an A-list star actress either, they could back up the money truck and make it very hard to say no. Last Christmas did reasonably well, but Solo and Terminator Genisys were duds.
 

Toth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,059
Regarding resurrections, I don't think people understand how it works in the series. Red priests cannot simply resurrect anyone. The Lord of Light has to select that person to be raised. Even in the books, a resurrected person can give their energy to another dead person to bring them back, but the giver then dies for good.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,106
I guess the bigger question is, is HBO even allowed to do "season 9", would GRRM let them do it and just say the TV universe is separate from his books completely?

Because if given that choice, I think HBO insists on Dany being brought back. The 8 finale kind of leaves it ambiguous, but they know the character has a huge fan base and Emilia Clarke would probably be down for it.

Since they didn't do Lady Stoneheart in the show, they justify it as "well we get one more resurrection to use".

It would also naturally propel the plot for a season 9 if Dany is back from the East and hellbent on revenge, well you have a dramatic thrust in place already.

Now I'm not saying it would be anything great writing wise, but it would work and probably net HBO fairly good ratings (higher than any of the GoT spin-offs or any other show they have currently most likely).

I believe GRRM once said something to the effect that HBO could add aliens and time travel to Game of Thrones and there'd be nothing he could do about it, which makes me think he signed away the rights completely or something.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
I believe GRRM once said something to the effect that HBO could add aliens and time travel to Game of Thrones and there'd be nothing he could do about it, which makes me think he signed away the rights completely or something.

That's interesting because I've heard nothing is allowed after the end of the current AsoIF/GoT timeline.

If that's the case, HBO should just move ahead with a season 9. I'm inclined to think either they can't or because they are working with GRRM on other GoT shows that they don't want to piss him off too much, lol.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Regarding resurrections, I don't think people understand how it works in the series. Red priests cannot simply resurrect anyone. The Lord of Light has to select that person to be raised. Even in the books, a resurrected person can give their energy to another dead person to bring them back, but the giver then dies for good.

So Drogon takes Dany's body to Kinvara in Volantis and she gives her life to let Dany live. They can even make a big bruhaha about her being the last one alive who knows how to do this to close the plot loophole of just resurrecting future characters that way. Bingo, bango.

I mean it strikes me that these two Red Priestesses basically worship Dany as a savior figure fanatically and both would consider it a great service to the lord of light to give their life for hers.





It's relatively easy within the frame work of GoT to bring her back if that's something the writing staff/HBO really wanted to do.
 
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El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,106
That's interesting because I've heard nothing is allowed after the end of the current AsoIF/GoT timeline.

If that's the case, HBO should just move ahead with a season 9. I'm inclined to think either they can't or because they are working with GRRM on other GoT shows that they don't want to piss him off too much, lol.

I wish they'd piss him and off and he'd stop working on these shows. Maybe then he wouldn't have yet another excuse to not finish TWoW anymore.


And season 5 was worse than 7. The show pretty much fell off a cliff after they got through adapting A Storm of Swords.

Part of that was because ADWD would've needed like three seasons to adapt properly.
 

Lothar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,550
I am really surprised we never got any word on spinoffs by now. Why not? Sansa, Arya, and Jon could be doing other stuff. Some actors would probably be hungry for more GoT stuff, their own series. Fans would eat it up, even if it was bad. I'd watch it even it was bad. I'd still like seeing those actors being the characters again.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,976
That's interesting because I've heard nothing is allowed after the end of the current AsoIF/GoT timeline.

If that's the case, HBO should just move ahead with a season 9. I'm inclined to think either they can't or because they are working with GRRM on other GoT shows that they don't want to piss him off too much, lol.

Well years ago GRRM also made clear he vetoed both a Dunk & Egg and a Robert's Rebellion show... and now there are rumours about both being in development.

So either GRRM is flexible and can change his mind on what he allows, or HBO is actually pitching those concepts to GRRM to convince him to drop his veto... which seems unlikely
 

AzorAhai

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,701
The only possible remake would be an animated series when ASOIAF is done. And that could be incredible.
 
OP
OP
Ether_Snake

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Well years ago GRRM also made clear he vetoed both a Dunk & Egg and a Robert's Rebellion show... and now there are rumours about both being in development.

So either GRRM is flexible and can change his mind on what he allows, or HBO is actually pitching those concepts to GRRM to convince him to drop his veto... which seems unlikely

He just hype a cast announcement for HotD yesterday on his blog so I am sure he signed up for it all. He knows he isn't going to write the books so I think he wants a bigger legacy.


So Drogon takes Dany's body to Kinvara in Volantis and she gives her life to let Dany live. They can even make a big bruhaha about her being the last one alive who knows how to do this to close the plot loophole of just resurrecting future characters that way. Bingo, bango.

I mean it strikes me that these two Red Priestesses basically worship Dany as a savior figure fanatically and both would consider it a great service to the lord of light to give their life for hers.





It's relatively easy within the frame work of GoT to bring her back if that's something the writing staff/HBO really wanted to do.


In the books the red priests are leading rebellions and taking over cities as they begin to claim Dany is the messiah, not just a few priests. They are likely going to Westeros with her in the books, burning statues of the Seven and burning people alive. In the books Dany always ends up with whoever looks like a villain from Westerosi perspective, it's the whole point of the story, about "othering":


The condition and quality of Otherness (the characteristics of the Other) is the state of being different from and alien to the social identity of a person and to the identity of the Self.[5] In the discourse of philosophy, the term Otherness identifies and refers to the characteristics of Who? and What? of the Other, which are distinct and separate from the Symbolic order of things; from the Real (the authentic and unchangeable); from the æsthetic (art, beauty, taste); from political philosophy; from social norms and social identity; and from the Self. Therefore, the condition of Otherness is a person's non-conformity to and with the social norms of society; and Otherness is the condition of disenfranchisement (political exclusion), effected either by the State or by the social institutions (e.g., the professions) invested with the corresponding socio-political power. Therefore, the imposition of Otherness alienates the person labelled as "the Other" from the centre of society, and places him or her at the margins of society, for being the Other.[6]

The term Othering describes the reductive action of labelling and defining a person as a subaltern native, as someone who belongs to the socially subordinate category of the Other. The practice of Othering excludes persons who do not fit the norm of the social group, which is a version of the Self;[7] likewise, in human geography, the practice of othering persons means to exclude and displace them from the social group to the margins of society, where mainstream social norms do not apply to them, for being the Other.
 
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TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
I am really surprised we never got any word on spinoffs by now. Why not? Sansa, Arya, and Jon could be doing other stuff. Some actors would probably be hungry for more GoT stuff, their own series. Fans would eat it up, even if it was bad. I'd watch it even it was bad. I'd still like seeing those actors being the characters again.
Exactly
 

Elandyll

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,864
I am really surprised we never got any word on spinoffs by now. Why not? Sansa, Arya, and Jon could be doing other stuff. Some actors would probably be hungry for more GoT stuff, their own series. Fans would eat it up, even if it was bad. I'd watch it even it was bad. I'd still like seeing those actors being the characters again.
As awful as I thought season 8 was, I'd be interested in seeing Jon's efforts to rebuild the far Norf with Tormund, and the almost inevitable eventual conflict with Sansa, while we'd follow Arya staby-stabing her way around the unexplored regions of West Westeros.
Really not interested in Bran the Broken though, and D&D have basically eradicated all the interesting colored characters (Grey Worm, imo, was only ever interesting in his relations with others, Missandei in particular) so we'd need new ones.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
He just hype a cast announcement for HotD yesterday on his blog so I am sure he signed up for it all. He knows he isn't going to write the books so I think he wants a bigger legacy.




In the books the red priests are leading rebellions and taking over cities as they begin to claim Dany is the messiah, not just a few priests. They are likely going to Westeros with her in the books, burning statues of the Seven and burning people alive. In the books Dany always ends up with whoever looks like a villain from Westerosi perspective, it's the whole point of the story, about "othering":


Yeah I agree but since it's pretty much also agreed the TV show at this point is only loosely based on the books and diverges considerably in many areas, you simply just need an explanation that some what works in the context of the TV show.

Kinvara giving her life to resurrect Dany would work, it would also make the character in the TV show have some kind of payoff because a lot of folks were saying what the heck was the point of her character.
 
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BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,283
absolutely, it's given people brainworms. I'd maybe understand if it was good rather than 4 hours of dreck
SC was good though. And it was already mostly done, just needed finished vfx work. This would be starting from scratch... major doubt they'd redo the end of GoT but I bet it'd do well.
 

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,219
The only possible remake would be an animated series when ASOIAF is done. And that could be incredible.
This is my hope.

If they went that route, they could go ahead and throw Robert's Rebellion in there too, and tell that story as a season 1 that eventually leads to the beginning of Game of Thrones. Since R+L=J isn't a mystery anymore, treating it as such in the narrative for the audience isn't really important.