It's the lightest MMO ever if it is one, the MMO dial is currently at 1/10.
[June 22, 2023] Metro UK: Diablo 4 players angry at being forced to create new characters for seasonal battle pass
- Thread starter MDCrabCakeFan86
- Start date
- News Activision/Blizzard
It's the lightest MMO ever if it is one, the MMO dial is currently at 1/10.
Diablo seasons are the best thing about Diablo I don't even understand this seemingly fake outrage. Someone has to be angry at something but this aint it.
Give me a group finder, proper global chat, global trading and increase the shard size from 12 (not very massive). That would be a good start to making it feel more like an MMO.
I think they expected the now "traditional" way of returning to their main and engage with the seasonal content when it drops and then move on again or stick around when it's engaging enough/complete the BP. The reality is you don't really have a main in these games.
But I agree with what's been said, if the metrics are not what they now expected from the sales I'm sure we'll see a pivot later in the year and definitely when the first expansion drops. In the end money talks.
Then put a healer, a tank, implement an aggro system and add in dailies and weeklies for the true MMO experience.
You do realize WoW isn't the only MMO, right? And everything I mentioned has been in previous Diablo games. Bit of a silly comment honestly.
As you say, that stuff has been in previous Diablo games:
D2 had 8-man games.
D2 had player trading.
D2 had "proto-group finder" (game list).
D2 had global chat in games and lobbies.
I do not consider adding any of that to D4 dialing up the MMO-ness to be honest, that's just basic online co-op stuff that's been around for 20+ years that somehow, with the exception of player trading having an understandable reason as to why it isn't implemented, is kind of confusing that they're not there considering blizzard went with a more online centric direction this time.
They have world bosses, and they could add raids, maybe they're even planning to already. The endgame needs more challenging content anyway, I don't see why some of that content can't be group based. There's no need for traditional mmo classes, you can require team coordination in different ways.
MMO
Massive
Multiplayer
Online
Massive
Jesus, there's nothing Massive about the current iteration of Diablo 4. You don't call Destiny 2 an MMO, you don't call Path of Exile an MMO, you don't even call Battlefield an MMO even if there are 10x more people than in Diablo 4 on the same map. You need a huge number of players existing, simultaneously, in the same persistent world. Diablo 4 is an online APRG, just like PoE and Last Epoch, that's it lol
Massive
Multiplayer
Online
Massive
Jesus, there's nothing Massive about the current iteration of Diablo 4. You don't call Destiny 2 an MMO, you don't call Path of Exile an MMO, you don't even call Battlefield an MMO even if there are 10x more people than in Diablo 4 on the same map. You need a huge number of players existing, simultaneously, in the same persistent world. Diablo 4 is an online APRG, just like PoE and Last Epoch, that's it lol
We don't even have matchmaking in D4 lmaooo, it's barely multiplayer
This is just a complete non issue. Outrage for the sake of outrage.
The only people that have bought the Battle Pass so far are the Ultimate edition buyers, anyone buying that should know what they're getting and are the type of people to know what Blizzard have already said. The battle pass can't even be bought on its own yet.
The people complaining won't be playing in a months time anyway, they'll be long bored of the game by then or playing something else. If they were still playing and the Battle Pass stuff was in eternal too, they'd quit playing it after a few hours because it would be doing the same stuff as before.
Once the season starts, some people complaining will "get it", they just need to see it in action.
This is absolutely not a MMO and people need to get out of that mindset where they can "main" a character. Characters are way more disposable than that. If they played season 1 I can bet they'd never play their eternal character again, and if they started season 2 they'd never play the season 1 character again. That's just how it goes and it's fine, good even.
The only people that have bought the Battle Pass so far are the Ultimate edition buyers, anyone buying that should know what they're getting and are the type of people to know what Blizzard have already said. The battle pass can't even be bought on its own yet.
The people complaining won't be playing in a months time anyway, they'll be long bored of the game by then or playing something else. If they were still playing and the Battle Pass stuff was in eternal too, they'd quit playing it after a few hours because it would be doing the same stuff as before.
Once the season starts, some people complaining will "get it", they just need to see it in action.
This is absolutely not a MMO and people need to get out of that mindset where they can "main" a character. Characters are way more disposable than that. If they played season 1 I can bet they'd never play their eternal character again, and if they started season 2 they'd never play the season 1 character again. That's just how it goes and it's fine, good even.
I didn't know this but this is the first time I play a game like this
It's a bit if a different mindset but I remain commited to the game and see how far I can come when the season begins
Normally I only have 1 main character.. I do have a few others right now because I also play on the deck.. Idk gonna see if it stays fun playing the same stuff over and over again?
It's a bit if a different mindset but I remain commited to the game and see how far I can come when the season begins
Normally I only have 1 main character.. I do have a few others right now because I also play on the deck.. Idk gonna see if it stays fun playing the same stuff over and over again?
What is a Season in Diablo 4?
Seasons are a classic feature of ARPGs to keep the game fresh and introduce new content. We've got the breakdown of how Seasons will work in Diablo 4!
www.wowhead.com
This is also a short article that sorta lays out what a season is.
The video in it is a bit long but it also explains it a bit in longer form directly from the team.
Here we see you can get what looks like 4 levels of buffs to monster kill xp at presumably 3% per level so 12% xp buff.
It's important to note you get these smoldering ashes you spend to unlock these buffs from the free tiers of the battle pass. But they also have a leveling requirement so you can't just buy your way to xp buffs with tier skips. This is of course a prerelease screenshot so things can change. And there is a whole unlock not even shown, maybe that relates to renown?
I just want to add that people are being hyper quick to judge this experience, saying it's not for them. I understand why, I was there once. But rerolling characters in this sort of experience is a lot more palatable than you think. There is no need to max out to enjoy a season. And you'll find that leveling your second character is different than your first, and perhaps even more so when doing a seasonal.
I suggest at least waiting until they announce the first season to see what is actually coming before judging it. That's what I am doing anyway. It's quite promising from what we know. I think they're going to effectively cut back the time to hit 100 by quite a lot even before that, but the 12% kill xp is quite a bit of a shift on it's own and I am kind've assuming you hit that easily by level 70 (they've said 100 is not required to complete the pass).
Yeah this MMO debate is silly and sounds like it comes from someone who has never actually played or understood what a MMO is.
Letting eternal characters affect seasonal progress is just not what seasons are about. Seasons are meant to be like a wall between the two. To progress the battle pass, you're meant to do new activities and seasonal objectives with new characters, conforming with new mechanics and gear. They've literally designed their post launch content around seasons, they've been upfront about this aspect. Expansions are a wholly separate thing coming, but before that new stuff is coming in seasons.
I understand how one might think it's just okay to let the season pass progress through old characters, but it's not even structured around that and doing so would warp it. I would be surprised they budge on this since it undermines the seasonal experience for those who want that type of experience. And they've designed these seasons in advance so pivoting might not even be feasible even if they felt it desireable. I am sure they're taking in all the feedback, but this isn't feedback on seasons. To get actual feedback on seasons, they need to get into people's hands.
I watched that video where the guy reacts to the reaction. All he is doing is staying dug into his opinion that his way to play the game needs to be supported so much that it affects everyone else. And it's simply based on his perception of what things should be. He can do what he wants, level to 100 on every character. No one is stopping that. But he wants to take away from the seasonal experience, which would absolutely happen (although it's not obvious) because they would need to warp their system to allow for this.
They've been clear you cannot buy power in the battle pass. But that doesn't mean there isn't power and advantages in the battle pass. They've been super up front about this all, that battle pass has power but it's part of the free tier. And you actually need to level up to unlock certain benefits. How is it fair or even desirable to negate that level requirement wholly? It's there for a reason, that reason being a level playing field for seasonal characters.
Letting eternal characters affect seasonal progress is just not what seasons are about. Seasons are meant to be like a wall between the two. To progress the battle pass, you're meant to do new activities and seasonal objectives with new characters, conforming with new mechanics and gear. They've literally designed their post launch content around seasons, they've been upfront about this aspect. Expansions are a wholly separate thing coming, but before that new stuff is coming in seasons.
I understand how one might think it's just okay to let the season pass progress through old characters, but it's not even structured around that and doing so would warp it. I would be surprised they budge on this since it undermines the seasonal experience for those who want that type of experience. And they've designed these seasons in advance so pivoting might not even be feasible even if they felt it desireable. I am sure they're taking in all the feedback, but this isn't feedback on seasons. To get actual feedback on seasons, they need to get into people's hands.
I watched that video where the guy reacts to the reaction. All he is doing is staying dug into his opinion that his way to play the game needs to be supported so much that it affects everyone else. And it's simply based on his perception of what things should be. He can do what he wants, level to 100 on every character. No one is stopping that. But he wants to take away from the seasonal experience, which would absolutely happen (although it's not obvious) because they would need to warp their system to allow for this.
They've been clear you cannot buy power in the battle pass. But that doesn't mean there isn't power and advantages in the battle pass. They've been super up front about this all, that battle pass has power but it's part of the free tier. And you actually need to level up to unlock certain benefits. How is it fair or even desirable to negate that level requirement wholly? It's there for a reason, that reason being a level playing field for seasonal characters.
So, as someone that poured hours into D3 and has been in D4 since beta, I kind of agree. Complete wipes shouldn't be a thing anymore and it really isn't needed. With all the customization you put into these toons (about as much as WoW) people are going to get attached to their toons. Makes sense they don't wanna start over.
Leveling also does absolutely nothing for you as a player, it's the most trivial part of ARPGs. Everyone rushed to max because endgame is what matters. I say if you wanna participate in seasons, there should be a gear/paragon level wipe. Same toon, reverted to level 50, with shitty blue gear.
Leveling also does absolutely nothing for you as a player, it's the most trivial part of ARPGs. Everyone rushed to max because endgame is what matters. I say if you wanna participate in seasons, there should be a gear/paragon level wipe. Same toon, reverted to level 50, with shitty blue gear.
I played alot of D3 and never dabbled in the seasons, I'm not thrilled about having to start a new character. Not furious though
Again, nothing gets wiped.
I don't know why people insist time and time again that they wipe characters, they don't, it doesn't matter if it gets repeated 200 times, it doesn't make it true. You can play the same character you feel so attached for 10 years straight if you desire to do so.
Nothing is wiped. And getting to level 50 is super easy even as a solo player, let alone with help from others.
This is irrelevant to me for two reasons. One i don't care about eternal realms and already stopped playing because i'm not gonna grind on a character that will be dead to me soon. And second i really couldn't care less about cosmetics in diablo. I have the pass though since i boight the deluxe to play earlier. Not gonna buy another one ever though. Very unlikely.
How it works in SoT, a game with no XP, is you advanced the tiers by doing "deeds" or "actions". Each deed, depending on complexity/time advances you certain amount. So competing a Skeleton Fort progresses you "x" amount. Heck, just sailing gives you some progress. Doing the new season events gives you more progress.
So from what I gather reading in this thread it's setup pretty similar to D4(events, actions, etc). And if I put this in D4 terms, a long time, dedicated ARPG player could reroll a character or continue min-maxing. Doesn't matter. They are progressing the BP by doing things and either min/max or leveling new. A new player, or a player who might not want to re-roll, continues using their day 1 char by doing events and also leveling their day 1 at the same time.
Lol yet again a thread full of people dismissing the complaints just saying that's how arpgs have always been.
Fucking gamers man. Every thread.
Fucking gamers man. Every thread.
Ya'll know exactly what I mean. You need to start over from level one to participate in seasons and current content. Your old character is there, but there is literally no point in keeping that toon once seasons start. You can also only have, what, 5 characters at a time? Eventually you'll need to make room and delete some if you want to experience multiple classes per season.
Seasonal shit gets added to the non seasonal toons after it ends but that's a massive delay.
No, i don't know what you mean when you are talking about something that is not real. Anyway, Seasons are here to stay.
Fucking non gamers man, wanting to change a core aspect of an entire genre to suit them because they didn't look into what they were buying.
I've stated multiple times in a few threads reasoning even though i don't mind restarting myself but i understand others but look you are clearly here just dismissing the complaints like i just said above. See every time.
No, we don't know exactly what you meant. I've seen enough people react to the news by thinking their eternal characters are retired or restarted. And you literally said complete wipe, which implies your character is getting erased when that isn't the case.
Okay but maybe you should chill if you're getting this frustrated over the topic.
You just gotta read what something is before purchasing it. The seasons in D3 didn't really appeal to me, so I'm not planning on engaging with it in D4. So I opted not to buy the battle pass.
Then you're being intentionally obtuse. Because your non seasonal character is useless and you are starting over.
Anyway, seasons are probably here to stay but it should be changed in how it functions.
You are also being intentionally obtuse. Your old character is rendered useless if you are going with seasons. It is, for all intents and purposes, a wipe. No reason to have 5 necros.
The only complaint that is reasonable to me is the battle pass being tied to seasonal stuff only - personally, I think it'd be okay for eternal characters to progress on it too.
Otherwise, I fail to see how "fucking gamers" applies here. A majority of ARPG players keep playing these games for seasonal content, and it was known it'd be coming before the game released.
People down on seasonal stuff should give it a try, these games really promote trying new characters and builds. It's fun.
This conversation feels so much like the Returnal launch, when people experienced their first roguelike.
I'm not really referring to Diablo 3 and leveling, but more things like unlocking additional potion slots. Diablo 2 didn't give a huge benefit to being super high level as you could mop up the game by your 80s pretty easily depending on what your goals were for your build. Hitting 80 was also much easier. Diablo 4 having seasons is fine, having so many check boxes to check is my main issue. The leveling slowed down later in the process in Diablo 2 as well.
I played PoE for a decade without ever talking, trading or partying with anyone. When SSF got introduced in 2.6 i never played anything else. Outside of some ugly character models in town which could very well just be random npcs, i have never interacted with another player, ever.
MMOs got really lax about the ~massive~ and ~multiplayer~ parts lately huh
It's just every time i brought this up that this was gonna happen everyone constantly was dismissing me and the points, and look what i said was gonna happen is coming true and people are STILL dismissing the points.
Gamers do this all the time, hell i have done it before too. It's really annoying and it's sad to see to the people in this thread even that are making points. I see tons of posts "that's just how it is in arpgs" over and over again.
Wasn't intended to be :(
More just me being annoyed.
I still have my original D3 character I created on day 1. It's never been wiped or rendered useless or unplayable after like 30 seasons. It's not my only Demon Hunter either. There is no reason this won't be the case in D4. And in no shape or form am I being obtuse. You literally said it's a complete wipe and now you're saying for all intents and purposes it's a wipe. It's just plainly and factually wrong.
Not sure what is hard to accept about what I and several others have said, but Ok.
While I understand where the feeling is coming from (starting over after grinding your character for gear and level can feel like all your progress gets thrown out of the window), seasons without making new characters wouldn't really work, some seasonal mechanics change how itemization or skills work in a significant manner, sometimes these newly added mechanics are not added to the eternal realm after a season ends for obvious reasons.
If they got rid of the need to make new characters per season, they would have to make seasonal mechanics very non-disruptive so they're always added on top of the previous one after it finishes (and thus shorten the game's lifespan significantly, as the new stuff would have to be pretty minor) or come up with a new way ARPGs can be played in a long lasting way, which is not an easy task.
Why won't the mega successful game doing this for twenty years change for me?
Y'all just try a season. It ain't that bad. Roll a new class and give it a shot. Or don't buy the bp and play eternal. No one's making you buy anything. You control your wallet.
Or keep pounding sand I guess.
Y'all just try a season. It ain't that bad. Roll a new class and give it a shot. Or don't buy the bp and play eternal. No one's making you buy anything. You control your wallet.
Or keep pounding sand I guess.
Hey guys,
I just bought Gran Turismo 7 and i apparently i have to stay in the car all the time ???
I'm not gonna go back and forth, man. You're not technically wrong, your character is not deleted. But you only have 5 slots (as of right now) and MOST players don't keep their old toons when they participate in seasons. Like there's literally no reason to. So you're grasping hard on my terminology, which I suppose I should have been more specific on what I mean, but my point stands.
I have as many eternal monks as I can probably have in d3 haha rolled a new one each season and went for a different build. I could fire any one of them up today and play away in eternal. I don't understand what's hard for people to get about this.
I think ultimately this just isn't the right arpg for people. Check out grim dawn, torchlight series, there's a few others too that don't do seasons. Titan quest remaster is rad too.