PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Post E3 2018

[FSavage]

a) The plan is that streaming will be available on all Xbox One SKUs too if I am not mistaken.
b) Nothing is known on how the service will work specifically.

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From what I've read of the service xCloud will be glorified Remote Play from the cloud. Play the games in your library remotely on any mobile device without the need to stream directly from the console hardware you own. It's the next logical evolution of Sony's Remote Play vision. And I honestly think Sony has been planning something similar for a while now...

 

[Papacheeks]

Can't agree with that. If they have a new console(s) coming next year then get me hyped for it. Show me what it can do.

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That's what I was saying though with showing the PC part of it. They can be like this is Halo running on PC and next gen. And announcing that it will be cross play across "All" platforms.

That at least isn't leaving XBox one X buyers out in the cold.

 

[SeanMN]

Am I the only one who think MS is likely going to announce Scarlett next E3 especially if they are confident with it's spec

I imagine somthing similar to Scorpio at E3 2016. Spencer on stage "Here a bold new vision of Halo which will be taking advantage of our next console, coming Holiday 2020" *drop mic* crowd goes wild :D

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I definitely expect an announcement at E3 2019 in the same vein as how Project Scorpio was announced in 2016. I was surprised at E3 2018 when they acknowledged the existence of next gen hardware. I don't know if any games will be shown alongside the announcement, and MS has already tied Halo Infinite to Xbox One

From what I've read of the service xCloud will be glorified Remote Play from the cloud. Play the games in your library remotely on any mobile device without the need to stream directly from the console hardware you own. It's the next logical evolution of Sony's Remote Play vision. And I honestly think Sony has been planning something similar for a while now...

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Sony has been implementing something similar for awhile in PS Now, and recent rumors suggest they're looking to expand it to more platforms (mobile).

One of the primary issues MS is trying to tackle with xCloud is latency and bandwidth, so the service is viable over a cellular connection. Their rumored goals for bandwidth requirements (10mbps) are much lower than other competing services. You can already stream games from your Xbox One to your Win10 PC, which is similar to Remote Play.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I don't understand this logic. MS announced X at E3 over a year ahead of its release.

I think Sony are skipping E3 so they can be masters of their own timetable. I think they learnt lessons from 2013 and are using that to shape 2019.

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I think the problem is adding MS into the equation.

I'm only talking about Sony and how it doesn't make sense to skip an E3 the same year they plan on announcing and releasing a new system.

 

[FSavage]

Sony has been implementing something similar for awhile in PS Now, and recent rumors suggest they're looking to expand it to more platforms (mobile).

One of the primary issues MS is trying to tackle with xCloud is latency and bandwidth, so the service is viable over a cellular connection. Their rumored goals for bandwidth requirements (10mbps) are much lower than other competing services. You can already stream games from your Xbox One to your Win10 PC, which is similar to Remote Play.

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Right, they're already partway there, but xCloud is meant to cut the middleman (the console), is what I meant. Meaning you can have an Xbox Store library and 'remote play' it without even needing the console. This is different from a PS Now or game pass service, which has a rotating library that you can* stream but don't own.

 

[Wandu]

Can't agree with that. If they have a new console(s) coming next year then get me hyped for it. Show me what it can do.

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I wonder if their next screen image will show "high fidelity VR" and they actually do it.

I think the problem is adding MS into the equation.

I'm only talking about Sony and how it doesn't make sense to skip an E3 the same year they plan on announcing and releasing a new system.

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To be fair, Sony hasn't announced new hardware at E3 since 2005 with PS3 and 2011 with PS Vita. PS4 and PS4 Pro had their own separate events. I expect PS5 to follow that as well since E3 2019 is a no show. I never expected them to announce at E3 like MS anyway.

 

[SeanMN]

Right, they're already partway there, but xCloud is meant to cut the middleman (the console), is what I meant. Meaning you can have an Xbox Store library and 'remote play' it without even needing the console. This is different from a PS Now or game pass service, which has a rotating library that you can* stream but don't own.

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Ok, I understand your intent now. But I think we're talking about two different things: the technology platform to stream games (PS Now, xCloud, Project Stream, Geforce Now) and the service/method of achieving or providing access to play a game (subscribing, direct purchase, Games with Gold, PS+).

PS Now is a cloud platform that (as far as I know) exclusively relies on a subscription service to access. GamePass is a subscription service that (currently) available on Xbox One and PC (limited for now, soon to be expanded on PC). The expectation/speculation, is that xCloud is a cloud platform that allows you to access games that you already have access to on your home console (owned or subscribed) - if you own a game, you have access to it, if you're subscribed to gamepass and a game is on gamepass, then you have access to it. xCloud will be the technology of Xbox's cloud platform, the means of accessing games will remain the same whether on a local Xbox or streaming the game from xCloud.

 

[Bunkles]

we got another https://www.resetera.com/threads/so...e-were-skipping-3.88555/page-23#post-16492091

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#Team2019 be like:

 

[Deleted member 36493]

#Team2019 be like:

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The "S" looked like a "5" though!

 

[Dimple]

Am I the only one who think MS is likely going to announce Scarlett next E3 especially if they are confident with it's spec

I imagine somthing similar to Scorpio at E3 2016. Spencer on stage "Here a bold new vision of Halo which will be taking advantage of our next console, coming Holiday 2020" *drop mic* crowd goes wild :D

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Very likely, I also think they may go into a little bit of detail with regards to things like how Backwards Compatibility will work for next gen, that and I 100% believe they will end the conference with Ninja Theory's next game.

 

[BitsandBytes]

Dear #Team2020:

 

[FSavage]

Ok, I understand your intent now. But I think we're talking about two different things: the technology platform to stream games (PS Now, xCloud, Project Stream, Geforce Now) and the service/method of achieving or providing access to play a game (subscribing, direct purchase, Games with Gold, PS+).

PS Now is a cloud platform that (as far as I know) exclusively relies on a subscription service to access. GamePass is a subscription service that (currently) requires the game to be running on a home platform. The expectation/speculation, is that xCloud is a cloud platform that allows you to access games that you already have access to on your home console (owned or subscribed) - if you own a game, you have access to it, if you're subscribed to gamepass and a game is on gamepass, then you have access to it. xCloud will be the technology of Xbox's cloud platform, the means of accessing games will remain the same whether on a local Xbox or streaming the game from xCloud.

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We were talking about the same thing actually, you articulated what I meant here way better than I did lol. All I wonder is if xCloud will be rolled into Live Gold, or maybe make a new tier (Live Platinum?). Also, synergy between the services will be the most important part. As you said, I expect that you'll be able to stream game pass games using xCloud, will these two services be priced separately, or rolled into one? Will be interesting to see how it's implemented.

My vision of next gen for Xbox live Store/PSN Store is being able to go to a game page, and if you click on the 'try demo' button you get the option of instantly streaming the demo or game tried to try it out or download it to your system. Same thing when buying the game. Having an 'instant play' mode while the game downloads in the background, maybe this is what that fast play rumor meant. Sony is partly there already with being able to download part of the game nad play it while the rest downloads. Interesting times ahead for gaming.

 

[Adookah]

PlayStation 5

Zen 2 8 core @3.0Ghz CPU
Navi ~14TF GPU
24GB GDDR6 RAM
1TB HDD Sata3 7200rpm (SSD optional)
Full HDMI 2.1 support
All PS4 games backward compatible with boost mode and super sampling
PS3 emulation coming later (please Sony)
Dolby Vision/Atmos support for games and movies
DualShock 5 with USB type C and a touchscreen display
BDXL

399$ - March 2020

 

[Themaddestgamer]

PlayStation 5

Zen 2 8 core @3.0Ghz CPU
Navi ~14TF GPU
24GB GDDR6 RAM
1TB HDD Sata3 7200rpm (SSD optional)
Full HDMI 2.1 support
All PS4 games backward compatible with boost mode and super sampling
PS3 emulation coming later (please Sony)
Dolby Vision/Atmos support for games and movies
DualShock 5 with USB type C and a touchscreen display
BDXL

399$ - March 2020

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I would take it in a heartbeat. Sounds like a great system. I don't think PS3 emulation is coming. Also think a few lower Tflops but baked in features like VR and RT.

But I don't know half what other guys in this thread know.

 

[RevengeTaken]

PlayStation 5

Zen 2 8 core @3.0Ghz CPU
Navi ~14TF GPU
24GB GDDR6 RAM
1TB HDD Sata3 7200rpm (SSD optional)
Full HDMI 2.1 support
All PS4 games backward compatible with boost mode and super sampling
PS3 emulation coming later (please Sony)
Dolby Vision/Atmos support for games and movies
DualShock 5 with USB type C and a touchscreen display
BDXL

399$ - March 2020

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Sounds like a $500 to me.

 

[Kyoufu]

Sounds like a $500 to me.

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same

y'all ain't getting that for $399

 

[Adookah]

*sold at a loss

😁

 

[nolifebr]

Now seriously, if they show a Horizon 2 or some exclusive game that impress, they can have the free pass to put the price at 500 dollars.

 

[BradGrenz]

This is different from a PS Now or game pass service, which has a rotating library that you can* stream but don't own.

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The expectation/speculation, is that xCloud is a cloud platform that allows you to access games that you already have access to on your home console (owned or subscribed) - if you own a game, you have access to it, if you're subscribed to gamepass and a game is on gamepass, then you have access to it. xCloud will be the technology of Xbox's cloud platform, the means of accessing games will remain the same whether on a local Xbox or streaming the game from xCloud.

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That's the problem here. xCloud's technical possibilities are no difference from PS Now. MS haven't actually announced a business model so any claim that xCloud lets you play any game you own streamed as a differentiator to PS Now is pure speculation. I think it's pretty likely the primary use for xCloud will be a library based subscription service no different from PS Now. Anything above and beyond that can be easily matched by PS Now if the demand is there.

 

[dobahking91]

Since we knows MS is going for 2 SKUs at launch do you think Sony will do the same ?

They are plenty of people who'd gladly pay $500 especially early adopter if there are valid reasons to justify that cost. And there's always the $400 option for people who think $500 is too much.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I wonder if their next screen image will show "high fidelity VR" and they actually do it.



To be fair, Sony hasn't announced new hardware at E3 since 2005 with PS3 and 2011 with PS Vita. PS4 and PS4 Pro had their own separate events. I expect PS5 to follow that as well since E3 2019 is a no show. I never expected them to announce at E3 like MS anyway.

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I think Vita also had it own event also but yeah PS5 will get it own event since it make much more sense.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

Sony should just port the Cell to 7nm, include it in the APU and open it to the devs as deeply-vectorized co-processor cores, so they're actually useful beyond emulation. Cell has enough grunt to do shit like RT 3D audio, likely.

Spoiler

Never gonna happen.

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

Are missing part of the puzzle here?

With 8 core Zen2, 10+ Navi, 16gb ram, 500-1000gbps bandwidth.

Will these specs create some kind of synergy that will enable results far more then what the specs suggest on paper?

I'm talking about a fundamental shift in design?

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

PlayStation 5

Zen 2 8 core @3.0Ghz CPU
Navi ~14TF GPU
24GB GDDR6 RAM
1TB HDD Sata3 7200rpm (SSD optional)
Full HDMI 2.1 support
All PS4 games backward compatible with boost mode and super sampling
PS3 emulation coming later (please Sony)
Dolby Vision/Atmos support for games and movies
DualShock 5 with USB type C and a touchscreen display
BDXL

399$ - March 2020

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Looks like $499, maybe they could do that at 10tflops for $399 or less ram.

Now seriously, if they show a Horizon 2 or some exclusive game that impress, they can have the free pass to put the price at 500 dollars.

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I don't think horizon 2 would really make much of difference to sales at launch the majority of the people who would buy horizon 2 would buy a PS5 at launch anyway.

 

[Playboi Carti]

*sold at a loss

😁

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They would still sell it at loss at 500$ tho

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

Derp.

 

[Deleted member 36493]

I would pay upwards of $399.98 for a PS5

 

[DukeBlueBall]

#Team2019 be like:

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March 2020 is closer to November 2019 than November 2020. So the people who want an earlier PS5 launch in 2019 wins.

 

[FSavage]

Sony should just port the Cell to 7nm, include it in the APU and open it to the devs as deeply-vectorized co-processor cores, so they're actually useful beyond emulation. Cell has enough grunt to do shit like RT 3D audio, likely.

Spoiler

Never gonna happen.

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I don't think Sony wants to deal with the Cell any longer lol, it has been nothing but a huge money sink and headache up til now.

 

[Deleted member 40133]

Are missing part of the puzzle here?

With 8 core Zen2, 10+ Navi, 16gb ram, 500-1000gbps bandwidth.

Will these specs create some kind of synergy that will enable results far more then what the specs suggest on paper?

I'm talking about a fundamental shift in design?

Click to shrink...

Where are the specs from? Did I miss something?

 

[Deleted member 40133]

I don't think Sony wants to deal with the Cell any longer lol, it has been nothing but a huge money sink and headache up til now.

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That could have been kodera's fricken philosophy statement during his interview and it would have been effective. "no more cell" lol

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

Where are the specs from? Did I miss something?

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They are the mostly likely specs everyone thinks or at least in that ballpark.

 

[Beastlove]

What are the chances of MS bundling a year of All Access with their new console?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Sony should just port the Cell to 7nm, include it in the APU and open it to the devs as deeply-vectorized co-processor cores, so they're actually useful beyond emulation. Cell has enough grunt to do shit like RT 3D audio, likely.

Spoiler

Never gonna happen.

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A 7nm Cell would be utterly tiny and very low power. The issue would be the memory subsystem design. Would it connect to main memory?

It increases board complexity considerably.

 

[FSavage]

That could have been kodera's fricken philosophy statement during his interview and it would have been effective. "no more cell" lol

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Yup lol, I posted this earlier:

I actually think this 'delay' happen early to mid 2017, after Kodera took over. This is just my theory but I think Kodera looked at the then current design of the PS5 and ordered some design changes and/or additions to the design. I think Sony saw where the industry is going (more service oriented) and decided to promote Kodera (precious Network and Services boss) to be President, and in turn PS5 design philosophy changed around that time as well.

I think one of the big changes was PS3 emulation (native PS4 BC was in the PS5 plans from the get go imo). Idk if you guys remember this:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/28/sony_toshiba_ps3_chip_plant_sale/

Sony had to buy an entire factory just to continue making Cell and rsx chips. This was for the PS3 and the chips continued to be made for PS Now servers. They even had to redesign the Cell for PS Now server racks:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sony-creates-custom-ps3-for-playstation-now

Cell continues to be a (costly) thorn in Sony's side. The chips make it difficult for PS Now to easily and quickly expand. If Sony is able to design PS5 hardware to properly run all PS3 games, they will finally be able to relieve themselves of the Cell. Right now, PS Now needs separate server hardware to run PS1-PS4 games, adding costs and possibly halving capacity and hardware bandwidth for PS3/PS4 games. Imagine if they are able to design a PS5 hardware that can emulate PS1-PS3 games and natively play PS4 (+PS5 obviously) games. Hugely reducing costs, and the ability to quickly expand PS Now service as long as TSMC is able to pump out the hardware needed.

Going into the FGPA talk, I think the positives of including it in the hardware heavily outweighs the negatives for Sony in this case. This is basically what MS is doing with their hardware design for the nextbox, but instead of adding specific hardware just for games like Sony is, they're thinking about interprise apps.

Ps. If you look back I'm at my comments way earlier in this thread, I've been suggesting that Sony might be doing this way before the MS 'leaks' came out.

Click to shrink...

A 7nm Cell would be utterly tiny and very low power. The issue would be the memory subsystem design. Would it connect to main memory?

It increases board complexity considerably.

Click to shrink...

Let's not forget that Sony manufactures the Cell themselves.. do they even have 7nm capability right now? They would have to retool the entire production line just for one chip, too costly...

 

[Deleted member 40133]

I actually think this 'delay' happen early to mid 2017, after Kodera took over. This is just my theory but I think Kodera looked at the then current design of the PS5 and ordered some design changes and/or additions to the design. I think Sony saw where the industry is going (more service oriented) and decided to promote Kodera (precious Network and Services boss) to be President, and in turn PS5 design philosophy changed around that time as well.

I think one of the big changes was PS3 emulation (native PS4 BC was in the PS5 plans from the get go imo). Idk if you guys remember this:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/28/sony_toshiba_ps3_chip_plant_sale/

Sony had to buy an entire factory just to continue making Cell and rsx chips. This was for the PS3 and the chips continued to be made for PS Now servers. They even had to redesign the Cell for PS Now server racks:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sony-creates-custom-ps3-for-playstation-now

Cell continues to be a (costly) thorn in Sony's side. The chips make it difficult for PS Now to easily and quickly expand. If Sony is able to design PS5 hardware to properly run all PS3 games, they will finally be able to relieve themselves of the Cell. Right now, PS Now needs separate server hardware to run PS1-PS4 games, adding costs and possibly halving capacity and hardware bandwidth for PS3/PS4 games. Imagine if they are able to design a PS5 hardware that can emulate PS1-PS3 games and natively play PS4 (+PS5 obviously) games. Hugely reducing costs, and the ability to quickly expand PS Now service as long as TSMC is able to pump out the hardware needed.

Going into the FGPA talk, I think the positives of including it in the hardware heavily outweighs the negatives for Sony in this case. This is basically what MS is doing with their hardware design for the nextbox, but instead of adding specific hardware just for games like Sony is, they're thinking about interprise apps.

Ps. If you look back I'm at my comments way earlier in this thread, I've been suggesting that Sony might be doing this way before the MS 'leaks' came out.

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I agree 100% with this. The only thing giving me pause is the now multiple sources saying it was software not hardware. Although technically it is software related? Depending on how you view it

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Let's not forget that Sony manufactures the Cell themselves.. do they even have 7nm capability right now? They would have to retool the entire production line just for one chip, too costly...

Click to shrink...

Can you provide a source for this?

As far as I know Sony discontinued production of the PS3 and while they own fabs they have never manufactured a single Cell or RSX on their own fabs, since they sold off their microprocessor fabs and dedicated their remaining production capacity to image sensors.

I don't know where you're getting your information.

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

I actually think this 'delay' happen early to mid 2017, after Kodera took over. This is just my theory but I think Kodera looked at the then current design of the PS5 and ordered some design changes and/or additions to the design. I think Sony saw where the industry is going (more service oriented) and decided to promote Kodera (precious Network and Services boss) to be President, and in turn PS5 design philosophy changed around that time as well.

I think one of the big changes was PS3 emulation (native PS4 BC was in the PS5 plans from the get go imo). Idk if you guys remember this:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/28/sony_toshiba_ps3_chip_plant_sale/

Sony had to buy an entire factory just to continue making Cell and rsx chips. This was for the PS3 and the chips continued to be made for PS Now servers. They even had to redesign the Cell for PS Now server racks:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sony-creates-custom-ps3-for-playstation-now

Cell continues to be a (costly) thorn in Sony's side. The chips make it difficult for PS Now to easily and quickly expand. If Sony is able to design PS5 hardware to properly run all PS3 games, they will finally be able to relieve themselves of the Cell. Right now, PS Now needs separate server hardware to run PS1-PS4 games, adding costs and possibly halving capacity and hardware bandwidth for PS3/PS4 games. Imagine if they are able to design a PS5 hardware that can emulate PS1-PS3 games and natively play PS4 (+PS5 obviously) games. Hugely reducing costs, and the ability to quickly expand PS Now service as long as TSMC is able to pump out the hardware needed.

Going into the FGPA talk, I think the positives of including it in the hardware heavily outweighs the negatives for Sony in this case. This is basically what MS is doing with their hardware design for the nextbox, but instead of adding specific hardware just for games like Sony is, they're thinking about interprise apps.

Ps. If you look back I'm at my comments way earlier in this thread, I've been suggesting that Sony might be doing this way before the MS 'leaks' came out.

Click to shrink...

I wonder if PS5 will play ps3 games I already own either on disc or digitally.

 

[Kyoufu]

I wonder if PS5 will play ps3 games I already own either on disc or digitally.

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I'm gonna go with neither.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

A 7nm Cell would be utterly tiny and very low power. The issue would be the memory subsystem design. Would it connect to main memory?

Click to shrink...

AMDs hUMA arch theoretically could take care of it, if it were to be included in the APU. It already coordinates memory access for CPU, GPU and the ARM core used for trusted execution.

I mean, theoretically it could happen. It won't, but it could. I was being facetious.

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

I'm gonna go with neither.

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You don't think Sony might be a little concerned that MS seem to be going in that direction?

 

[Kyoufu]

You don't think Sony might be a little concerned that MS seem to be going in that direction?

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In what direction and what does PS3 have to do with MS?

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

In what direction and what does PS3 have to do with MS?

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In the BC direction, MS have nothing to do with ps3.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

AMDs hUMA arch theoretically could take care of it, if it were to be included in the APU. It already coordinates memory access for CPU, GPU and the ARM core used for trusted execution.

I mean, theoretically it could happen. It won't, but it could. I was being facetious.

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Lol yeah. I know it will never happen, but it's fun to speculate on.

 

[Kyoufu]

In the BC direction, MS have nothing to do with ps3.

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I don't think Sony are terribly concerned about their lack of PS1/PS2/PS3 BC. They only care about retaining PS Store revenue with PS4 BC.

Now, it'd be nice if they did work on a PS3 emulator so PS Now could allow downloads for ALL titles available on the service and not just PS4 ones but I'm not really holding my breath.

Honestly, Sony doesn't give a damn about their legacy. PS Classic is good evidence of that.

 

[Ascenion]

March 2020 is closer to November 2019 than November 2020. So the people who want an earlier PS5 launch in 2019 wins.

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Realistically now with that rumor, how is a 2019 designed PS5 gonna compared to a 2020 designed Xbox?

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

I don't think Sony are terribly concerned about their lack of PS1/PS2/PS3 BC. They only care about retaining PS Store revenue with PS4 BC.

Now, it'd be nice if they did work on a PS3 emulator so PS Now could allow downloads for ALL titles available on the service and not just PS4 ones but I'm not really holding my breath.

Honestly, Sony doesn't give a damn about their legacy. PS Classic is good evidence of that.

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I think both companies will pay some attention to avoiding a potential disadvantage.
This gen has shown that mountains can be made from mole hills.
It's a battle of optics.

 

[Deleted member 36493]

Sony delaying the PS5 for the games makes me confident their mind is in the right place

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

Realistically now with that rumor, how is a 2019 designed PS5 gonna compared to a 2020 designed Xbox?

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I don't think 2019 vs 2020 matters.
What matters is the design goal and price point. As a 2019 machine and 2020 machine would of started design around the same time.
A year later could give the option to add more RAM and maybe raise the clocks a bit more, but the CPU +GPU will be locked in.

 

[FSavage]

Can you provide a source for this?

As far as I know Sony discontinued production of the PS3 and while they own fabs they have never manufactured a single Cell or RSX on their own fabs, since they sold off their microprocessor fabs and dedicated their remaining production capacity to image sensors.

I don't know where you're getting your information.

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https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sony-creates-custom-ps3-for-playstation-now

This was the last info we got on Sony manufacturing the Cell. And you may be right that they have since stopped producing them at some point. So if no one is making the Cell anymore how is Sony expected to expand PS Now going forward other than designing hardware that's able to emulate it? I also posted that article about them buying that Cell fab from Toshiba, although it was long ago.