Candescence

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,253
This isn't price fixing (and sure as hell doesn't fit the definition of it), this is Nintendo trying to maintain good relationships with other retailers as to avoid major headaches with stock pricing and stock sales across the board. Sony has had similar problems with Amazon before.
 

Deleted member 8106

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,451
Nintendo dislikes lower prices but yet they priced the Switch 330€ in Europe while it's 300 dollars in US, so basically Amazon was selling it for the "real" price.
 

ronpontelle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,645
I rarely buy games from Amazon. FNAC or Leclerc are usually cheaper and Amazon usually price match them for launch games.

Only used them when I had Prime and got the extra the 2€, but they don't do that anymore i funny have Prime anyway.

Also noticed, during the current 'France Days' promotion that they didn't have Spiderman or RDR2 on PS4.
 

Epilexia

Member
Jan 27, 2018
2,675
I'm not sure if Nintendo feels it has an obligation to keep giant retailers from destroying their smaller retail partners, or if that is even the reason it has made such a move, but if it is, good on them.

It's related with the Christmas season. In France (and in Europe in general), people like to buy the Christmas gifts in physical stores. Basically, because they don't want to rely in transport agencies, with the risk of not receiving the gift for the required day.

So if Christmas is the bigger season for selling hardware, and most of the people will buy the Christmas gifts in physical retail stores, not in online store, for Nintendo is very important to have the Switch hardware available in these stores.

People don't know how France works, but France is an example of a country with a sense of association between people to combat corporations.

It's easy to see that in this case, retailers bummed with Amazon selling Switch by losing money to push Amazon Prime subscriptions or creating new loyal costumers (that by the way, it's illegal in Europe), they have threatened Nintendo with not purchasing stock for the Christmas season.

And if you know France, and how things like the labor union or the strikes work in France, people in France will never joke with these things.

Because France is exemplary in things like these.

As a Spanish, I see everyday these things in the TV: France farmers have a tendency to destroy and burn Spanish trucks transporting vegetables to France, every time that Spanish farmers try to compete with lower prices, that in the case of Spain, the country can afford because they pay much less money to the workers in the rural areas.

France people, fortunately, don't give a shit about laws created by corrupted politicians to push corporations: they will associate, it doesn't mind if they need to destroy or burn things, to defend the worker's rights.
 

jts

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,018
Saw a better one just yesterday.

k4KDPuNh.jpg


That's 299 w/ FIFA 19.
 

KratosEnergyDrink

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
Amazon was using the Switch as a loss leader to get sales and repeat customers. Other retailers complained.

Such actions from amazon could completely destroy the price of a product.

In many gaming and electronic markets you can get the price of amazon if its cheaper, for this low price it could be ruinous, so this markets simply don't order Switch anymore.

It seems amazon uses the Switch for another fight with retailers.
 

Razor Mom

Member
Jan 2, 2018
2,551
United Kingdom
It's related with the Christmas season. In France (and in Europe in general), people like to buy the Christmas gifts in physical stores. Basically, because they don't want to rely in transport agencies, with the risk of not receiving the gift for the required day.

So if Christmas is the bigger season for selling hardware, and most of the people will buy the Christmas gifts in physical retail stores, not in online store, for Nintendo is very important to have the Switch hardware available in these stores.



It's easy to see that in this case, retailers bummed with Amazon selling Switch by losing money to push Amazon Prime subscriptions or creating new loyal costumers (that by the way, it's illegal in Europe), they have threatened Nintendo with not purchasing stock for the Christmas season.

I'm from the UK and at least over here, the high street is absolutely dying to online retailers. GAME, HMV, everywhere that sells console hardware is hemorrhaging money at the moment, precisely because nobody is buying things in physical stores anymore. Not sure about the rest of Europe, but I've been living in Madrid with my girlfriend for the past year and she seems to think the same is the case there.

Also, can you explain what exactly you mean is illegal in Europe? I'm a little confused by your post, as to what part in particular is illegal about Amazon's ways of creating new loyal customers.
 

Copper

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
666
Amazon trying to price out competition to become a Monopoly as as usual. Peeing in bottles is a Small price to pay for that
 
Jun 21, 2018
139
Too few information. I know Amazon France has always been aggressive with switch pricing. At launch they had to stop shipping to Italy because every Italian amazon customer was buying a switch in France. It cost 60 euros less if I remember right.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
I love how people are defending Nintendo for breaking the fucking law by price fixing.

What the fuck guys?
Given what Amazon is being accused of that's obviously going to happen unless something else pops up.

Too few information. I know Amazon France has always been aggressive with switch pricing. At launch they had to stop shipping to Italy because every Italian amazon customer was buying a switch in France. It cost 60 euros less if I remember right.
Yeah, this is all speculation on both sides.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
I love how people are defending Nintendo for breaking the fucking law by price fixing.

What the fuck guys?

It's not price fixing unless they're forcing a specific price amongst all retailers. So far, we've seen no evidence of this; just Nintendo disallowing one retailer from significantly undercutting everyone else.

It's not unusual for games and electronics manufacturers to do this. Why do you think that nobody dares to offer discounts on Apple products?
 

Epilexia

Member
Jan 27, 2018
2,675
I'm from the UK and at least over here, the high street is absolutely dying to online retailers. GAME, HMV, everywhere that sells console hardware is hemorrhaging money at the moment, precisely because nobody is buying things in physical stores anymore. Not sure about the rest of Europe, but I've been living in Madrid with my girlfriend for the past year and she seems to think the same is the case there.

Also, can you explain what exactly you mean is illegal in Europe? I'm a little confused by your post, as to what part in particular is illegal about Amazon's ways of creating new loyal customers.

The problem with Amazon, is that they are playing with a "gray" area to achieve these prices.

In Europe, you can't massively sell a product below the price that you are paying to obtain the stock, because it's seen as illegal competency.

But Amazon is not doing this. Amazon, is selling this at the same price that they obtain the stock, without a single cent of benefice, to not break the law.

Retail stores can't do this to compete with Amazon, because it doesn't have any sense: they are moving stock, using storage space, to not obtain a benefice.

Amazon can "invest" in this, because in this way they can create loyal customers.

And most importantly, Amazon can do this, because they pay a shitty salary to their workers, and they have complex systems to avoid to pay taxes.

In Spain we have seen this in this in July, with the Prime Days week: there was a workers strike to protest against the workers conditions.

These type of economies, I think in the workers conditions in places like Walmart in the US, are very toxic: they don't contribute to create a better society.

And at the end, if a corporation like Amazon, offering the same shitty working conditions that Walmart in the US, forces to close the small retailers offering good jobs with good conditions to the workers, this is damaging for a country and an economy: only Jeff Bezos will win in this situation, being even more rich. Not the people complaining in this thread, not their children.
 

i-Jest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,018
This is what happens when mega corps beef, the consumer losses out. To be fair, Nintendo doesn't have the reach Amazon does in certain areas. Let the rumor mill run wild!
 

Selphie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,720
The Netherlands
I guess it was hurting sales because people would see amazon was so cheap and just wait until it was in stock there, so in the end less switches were sold because people were just waiting for the cheap ones?
That's my only uneducated guess
 

Out_Of_Ammo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,022
Belgium
So that's why you still can't pre-order smash on amazon.fr while the other amazons had it since the announcement. I was wondering about that for a while now.
 

The Boat

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,921
Are we still in the 90s? I could swear we're in 2018 and in a thread about Nintendo price fixing.
No, you're in a thread where people are jumping to conclusions and assuming they're doing price fixing without knowing what it is, waiting for actual information or minimally understanding the situation. Of course, this is par for the course in a Nintendo thread.
 

Noctilum

Member
Nov 28, 2017
369
If it is a predatory pricing issue then I commend Nintendo for looking out for retailers. No one looks at the big picture of us decimating jobs everywhere as we flock to Amazon. Some times it sucks having to talk to people or leave the couch, but if it saves a few jobs I'm willing to let go of Amazon for my shopping and .pay a few extra dollars.

Though I do know Nintendo does not believe in undervaluing it's products and wants to control pricing for them. Consumers still have a choice though. Video games aren't required to sustain life so we have plenty of other options for gaming and entertainment should we not agree with it's pricing.
 

FancyPants

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
707
Does Nintendo never learn? They got blasted by the EU over this before, and in the US they were convicted of unfair practises when they held back stock to retailers that lowered the price of the NES. It's literally the exact same thing as here, just 30 years later...
 

MaitreWakou

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
May 15, 2018
13,180
Toulouse, France
I preordered Smash and Pokémon Let's Go on Amazon.fr right after E3. A few weeks after E3, you couldn't preorder those games. This situation is 2 months old, but for some reason people think it's related to the Switch being unable to buy on amazon.fr since 4-5 days.
Couldn't preorder Super Mario Party because wasn't fast enough, but same happened for me with both Red Dead Redemption 2 and Resident Evil 2 Remake for PS4, you CAN'T preorder both of them right now, just like Smash Bros and co...
I still have my preorders in my purchases, I will do get Smash and Pokémon.
It happens a lot with Amazon, it's not the first time, ans it's not the last time.
It's just a stock problem because a lot of people buy here, not only in France as a lot of people here are saying. (From Italy, Spain...) I believe those people here since I also buy a lot on amazon.com and amazon.jp, it's really easy to do so.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,883
I can only afford to buy one Nintendo game per year (two on a good year), because of how badly they enforce price fixing on games.

I had no idea it was also happening with their hardware.
 
OP
OP
Rouk'

Rouk'

Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,207
This is what happens when mega corps beef, the consumer losses out. To be fair, Nintendo doesn't have the reach Amazon does in certain areas. Let the rumor mill run wild!

Please note that while I wrote [rumor] in the title, it's only about the reason. You effectively can't buy a switch or any upcoming nintendo games on amazon france right now.

Also, right now, there are no real repercussions, aside from the 30€ difference in price for the base switch, for the consumer (since the games are not always cheaper in amazon). Amazon isn't in a monopoly in France, you can still find those products elsewhere.

I preordered Smash and Pokémon Let's Go on Amazon.fr right after E3. A few weeks after E3, you couldn't preorder those games. This situation is 2 months old, but for some reason people think it's related to the Switch being unable to buy on amazon.fr since 4-5 days.
Couldn't preorder Super Mario Party because wasn't fast enough, but same happened for me with both Red Dead Redemption 2 and Resident Evil 2 Remake for PS4, you CAN'T preorder both of them right now, just like Smash Bros and co...
I still have my preorders in my purchases, I will do get Smash and Pokémon.
It happens a lot with Amazon, it's not the first time, ans it's not the last time.
It's just a stock problem because a lot of people buy here, not only in France as a lot of people here are saying. (From Italy, Spain...) I believe those people here since I also buy a lot on amazon.com and amazon.jp, it's really easy to do so.

It might be, but when asked, Amazon chose not to comment. Why would they if it was just a stock problem ? And even when products are out of stock, you can still find on amazon as far as I know. Smash, pokémon and Mario Party are nowhere to be found on the site. It's as if they didn't exist. I'll say it again, but there hase to be something going on, this is more than just a stock problem
 

Omega.X

Member
Oct 28, 2017
583
I imagine this type of business practice is not limited to Amazon France. Ever wonder why Nintendo games keep their value and sell near MSRP for years?
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Amazon France has been selling the Switch for very cheap since launch. They have been purposely undercutting other businesses which can have major problems with business relations with a company and other storefronts. This isn't new to Amazon, this is how they try to drive out competition and gain loyal customers who will defend Amazon at every turn like what I see here in this thread.

Nintendo isn't price fixing at all, nor does it even match the definition of the term. If you're going to blame Nintendo then you all have to let go of your console warrior attitudes and blame the other hardware manufacturers too for their feuds with Amazon. Sony was just in a feud with Amazon months ago.
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,586
I don't get it. If Amazon France wants to take a hit and sell them for less, that's their prerogative. Nintendo doesn't get less money.

Yes but other retailers have issues with Amazon undercutting them and taking away sales or trying to force competitors to match and lose money. Amazon does larger volume sales in general and makes up losses on other products. Other sellers don't have that option. That's the issue when Nintendo wants the price to be consistent amongst all sellers. Amazon does it's own thing and doesn't care what others want or ask.
 

PCPace

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,841
Alabama
Mon dieux! Curses onto you Geoff Bazos, you silly thing! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries! I fart in your general direction! Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time-a!
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
As the world transitions from physical to digital you will see brick and mortar stores rage, similar to blockbuster in the 2000s..
 

Malakai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
566
Nintendo dislikes lower prices but yet they price d the Switch 330€ in Europe while it's 300 dollars in US, so basically Amazon was selling it for the "real" price.

The EUR price include a 20% VAT. (So the amount actually being charged is cheaper than the U.S.) In the US the prices doesn't include taxes due to different states and cities having different tax rates. So, a U.S. purchaser could be paying between $315 to $330 for a 5% and 10% tax rate.
 

Deleted member 8106

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,451
The EUR price include a 20% VAT. (So the amount actually being charged is cheaper than the U.S.) In the US the prices doesn't include taxes due to different states and cities having different tax rates. So, a U.S. purchaser could be paying between $315 to $330 for a 5% and 10% tax rate.
Even by adding the tax the Switch is still way expensive in Europe than America.
 

Zephy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,200
Nintendo games keep their price because their games are typically well received by the public and are of little risk to retailers. Games that do not sell well get their prices cut to make space for things that sell better.

But look at the WiiU, very poor sales yet even today the games are still expensive as hell, whereas very successful PS4 games have dropped in price, even those that haven't had a sequel yet.

I think while you may be mostly right, Nintendo are also doing this purposefully to maintain a certain image even if they lose sales in the process. I for one would buy a lot more Nintendo games if their prices dropped, but I'll never pay full day one price for games I'm only moderately interested in (which is most Nintendo games), even less so years after release. That's how I only have 4 Switch games so far.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
No, one's illegal, the other is competition.
There's only one instance of Nintendo price fixing and that article you linked is available on Wikipedia, and the only known instance. And it also happened later into the Super Nintendo's life. The Switch is not even 2 years old yet. It's only been 1 year and 6 months since its WW launch and you honestly believe they'd be conspiring to price fix when it hasn't even been on the market long enough to even reach a point to where they can give price cuts? That's delusional.

Why don't you take aim at Amazon and their history of avoiding taxes, undercutting other businesses, and the constant feuds they get into with Sony and Nintendo. Amazon doesn't undercut other businesses in the spirit of competition, they do it to try bury the competition. They want to see their competition go bankrupt. Why don't you look up Amazon's history and their multiple times they've had allegations of anti-competition and monopolistic behavior, it's a real doozy.

Anyone who sides with Amazon is an outright fool.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,740
The Milky Way
There's only one instance of Nintendo price fixing and that article you linked is available on Wikipedia, and the only known instance. And it also happened later into the Super Nintendo's life. The Switch is not even 2 years old yet. It's only been 1 year and 6 months since its WW launch and you honestly believe they'd be conspiring to price fix when it hasn't even been on the market long enough to even reach a point to where they can give price cuts? That's delusional.

Why don't you take aim at Amazon and their history of avoiding taxes, undercutting other businesses, and the constant feuds they get into with Sony and Nintendo. Amazon doesn't undercut other businesses in the spirit of competition, they do it to try bury the competition. They want to see their competition go bankrupt. Why don't you look up amazon's history and their multiple times they've had allegations of anti-competition and monopolistic behavior, it's a real doozy.

Anyone who sides with Amazon is an outright fool.
I'm not siding with anyone, fool. If the OP is true then Nintendo is participating in illegal activity. If it isn't true then they're not. It's not complicated and not about taking sides.
 

CeroMiedo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,337
But look at the WiiU, very poor sales yet even today the games are still expensive as hell, whereas very successful PS4 games have dropped in price, even those that haven't had a sequel yet.

I think while you may be mostly right, Nintendo are also doing this purposefully to maintain a certain image even if they lose sales in the process. I for one would buy a lot more Nintendo games if their prices dropped, but I'll never pay full day one price for games I'm only moderately interested in (which is most Nintendo games), even less so years after release. That's how I only have 4 Switch games so far.
It's because of the calculation of shipments of their games. When sell through of a game being high most of the time, there will be no need for retailers to cut the prices of their games to sell to customers, and Nintendo is one of those companies which want the sell through of their games to be as high as possible, hence the high retail prices and the rarity of discounting of their games. But even Nintendo doesn't do it right all the time, since there are some of their games were overshipped and dropped to bargain bin when they miscalculated the demands (ex: Star Fox Zero, Codename Steam, AC Wii U,etc)
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
I'm not siding with anyone, fool. If the OP is true then Nintendo is participating in illegal activity. If it isn't true then they're not. It's not complicated and not about taking sides.
It doesn't even fit the definition for price fixing. And what Amazon is doing is not fair competition at all, it's underhanded and no one can compete with Amazon when they do these sorts of undercuts.

The problem with Amazon, is that they are playing with a "gray" area to achieve these prices.

In Europe, you can't massively sell a product below the price that you are paying to obtain the stock, because it's seen as illegal competency.

But Amazon is not doing this. Amazon, is selling this at the same price that they obtain the stock, without a single cent of benefice, to not break the law.

Retail stores can't do this to compete with Amazon, because it doesn't have any sense: they are moving stock, using storage space, to not obtain a benefice.

Amazon can "invest" in this, because in this way they can create loyal customers.

And most importantly, Amazon can do this, because they pay a shitty salary to their workers, and they have complex systems to avoid to pay taxes.

In Spain we have seen this in this in July, with the Prime Days week: there was a workers strike to protest against the workers conditions.

These type of economies, I think in the workers conditions in places like Walmart in the US, are very toxic: they don't contribute to create a better society.

And at the end, if a corporation like Amazon, offering the same shitty working conditions that Walmart in the US, forces to close the small retailers offering good jobs with good conditions to the workers, this is damaging for a country and an economy: only Jeff Bezos will win in this situation, being even more rich. Not the people complaining in this thread, not their children.
This is still the best post in here that helps explain what Amazon does.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,740
The Milky Way
It doesn't even fit the definition for price fixing. And what Amazon is doing is not fair competition at all, it's underhanded and no one can compete with Amazon when they do these sorts of undercuts.

https://www.howatavraamsolicitors.co.uk/know-illegal-supplier-set-price-products-sold/
Generally speaking, suppliers are entitled to recommend retail prices to their suppliers, but any attempt to restrict the price at which products are sold will constitute vertical price-fixing, which is in breach of EU law.
 

ggx2ac

Sales Heaven or Sales Hell?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,504

https://www.britannica.com/topic/price-fixing

Vertical price-fixing arrangements include agreements by manufacturers to set minimum or maximum resale (i.e., retail) prices for their products. Minimum resale price-fixing is often termed resale price maintenance. Direct agreements to maintain resale prices are per se illegal in the United States and subject to "hard-core restriction" in Europe. In both places, however, it is possible for manufacturers to achieve de facto resale price maintenance through indirect means—for example, by refusing to deal with retailers who discount their goods or by offering rebate programs that gear rebate amounts to pricing levels.

One example is Sony not supplying Amazon US with stock to sell Spider-Man (PS4) until Amazon ended up removing the Prime discounts on games.

And now apply that to this current situation with Nintendo and Amazon France.
 

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,202
As the world transitions from physical to digital you will see brick and mortar stores rage, similar to blockbuster in the 2000s..


Oh, that's not even the big picture! You see, all manufacturers are pursuing direct sales of software and services through their very own ecosystems. They only need retailers - b&m and online - to sell their physical hardware. But unlike software and services, hardware (with the exception of equipment) is only sold at very low margins. The only reason stores like amazon sell consoles in the first place is selling software, too, so to speak. Looking forward to see how this development will play out in the very near future. But I guess we'll see stores boycotting products from the big three more often.