Greed Island Mafia |OT|: Insert joke here

Aeleus · May 17, 2020

Dr. Monkey said:
At least one person we have in our semi-cleared section is probably not clear. I don't think it's Vere. Vere feels pretty town to me from his post content and tone and level of engagement. I wouldn't bet the game on it, but I'm tempted to trust that check for now. I expect it's someone with some role fuckery in the set of Sneeks/Royal/Donna/Aeleus. I don't think it's Royal. But I don't think we have enough info to go on. If someone town did steal Sorian's role? I'M JUST SAYIN, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO.

I basically agree with this as I'm town reading Vere even ignoring the green check and am still a bit suspicious of Sneeks (for similar reasons as muffin said earlier plus some of her reactions to Stu and the director situation).

Please don't lunch Donna though :(

malus · May 17, 2020

vote: nin
After those rereads, nin comes away the worst in my opinion.

So there you have it. I have a headache and I haven't eaten all day, so maybe I'll be back later. Do whatever you like with that.

nin · May 17, 2020

Dr. Monkey said:
Well, confirmed town easily goes into the kill pool, y'know? It's a risk. It gives us all information. It also is more likely to get people killed.

Okay, back later.

thanks for the post.

Natiko · May 17, 2020

I know a couple others have taken a look at this recently but here's the pertinent posts:

Kyanrute said:
I like Vere so far. He is a meaningful side-noise in the discussion.

What's the nono list atm? Off the top of my head, Donna, add Vere here at this point in the thought-stream since I have trouble remembering Geno, anyone else? Sure, Bear.

Flush, malus, Zipped, Aeleus, B-Dubs and Kalor are varying degrees of ???. Kalor was a bit aggro what was cool since it was just like a single post, can't praise him too much. B-Dubs could use new posts to make his Geno thing stand out less. I think Zipped said something. Should check what it was. It was Zipped oddness about roles and a minor critique about Sorian defending Bear. Amounts to typical-seeming Zipped with low posts, not an encouraging thing to be feeling but it is too early to call it scummy.

Kyanrute said:
Sawneeks Why Kalor? Even at best, I can't see it as anything but a lazy vote. Based on #hottakes, you seem to see something in it that I don't.

Kyanrute said:
Re: Kalor and Dubs fooling around. The mistakes on their own are a bit of a townie thing but bleh at glorifying a drop of water in an otherwise empty glass and calling it yummy water. I want more.

SalvaPot Mind explaining to me what your endgame is with the speculation about Sorian's role? You are trying to decipher his role (#764) when you don't even know what the truth-troll ratio is in his hints about it. You think you can deduce his alignment from those hints of questionable utility or gain hints toward his alignment from them? How?

Early on Kyan generally seems to not out much stock in scum reads of Kalor.

Kyanrute said:
I like to think that me talking out loud helps you all see where I am standing with the people I mention in my posts. Clearly that is at least commentary+.

General thoughts:

Kalor's reasoning for his vote was predictable from the moment he dropped it. Not a good look though to withhold the reasoning in his position. In some way, there is a similarity between Kalor and Sorian here - both are taking preemptive actions to defend themselves. I am fine with Sorian because he delivers content, Kalor on the other hand has not. One strengthens their position with the defensive play, the other almost makes it the whole play. Now my brain jumps to Kalor's strongest contrast right now, B-Dubs. Dubs is a bit ahead still I think in the race of not-looking-so-good, because he has been afk again, but Kalor has caught on.

I disagree with the people town reading turmoil, I don't get what makes their reads of him that strong. Could be meta reasons, ehh, have to check.

Still not interested in voting for Geno / Vere / Donna / Bear. Bear is the one on timer, the others I am D1 fine with.

Salva put up a storm, then ran around Sorian barking at him. As time passes, my early remark about his noise not being bad noise starts to stain a little - the ratio between his posts and public meaningful conclusions made is not that good I feel. I'd like to hear his thoughts before day end.

Stu could be a thing. His thing against Vere and how he sidestepped the town circle argument and then just called it off could be him misreading the argument and wanting to back off from it once he realized that he had not understood the argument Vere was having with Donna. I'll read Stu and Sawneeks next I think.

He starts to teeter a little on his feelings on Kalor, but fairly early he doesn't seem impressed by turm.

Kyanrute said:
Two people town read turm. One offered reasoning. And turm thing wasn't just about Blarg, it was about the list in general. And at least I found it odd how it was Kalor who prompted it.

I'm honestly not entirely sure what to take away RE: kyan's thoughts from this post

Kyanrute said:
The oddball crowd is now what, Stu, turmoil, Zipped, Kalor, Bear and Dubs. If you expand the definition a bit I guess you could add malus at least, but thinking time now, so no checking player lists.

Last two are sudden swings, no.
30 mins, whew. Cheers Fran.
How does Zipped factor into this again?
Need to check the Flush vote. Ok, does Kalor do that blunder and then drop a vote without explanation on turmoil and then explain that vote in that weak of a fashion and THEN start actually doing work against turmoil? I feel that the suspicion was on him earlier than he actually started working. It all has always felt too carefree. Even if he was scum, the transition to actual work should've happened earlier. It is so weak. I don't like it.

And the thread moves at a fraction of c. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

This I believe is the post in question where Kyan firms back up on not being sold Kalor is scum which shortly after leads to

Kyanrute said:
VOTE: turmoil7

Stu is fucking bonkers and makes no sense and is full of contradictions but that also is bonkers of a scum play in most scenarios my head can conceive in this hurry.

Which all told there's at least some progression that leads to his final vote. In a perfect world would there have been more shared about his actual read on turm? Yeah, but it's D1 so voting for the person you town read least out of a group seems reasonable.

nin · May 17, 2020

Malus i initially wanted to get into you But when you said that i used the ITA for whatever reason just leads me to believe that you did not even care to read the thread. I mean you could have asked me why i did it like salva did several pages ago. i even responded and gave my reasoning. Did you skip that post or did you not care to bring it up since does not match the painting you are trying to do.

not going to deep dive since we are close to day end and you made up your kind for today.
see you tomorrow.

i for one will be here for the rest of the players until day end

nin · May 17, 2020

90 minutes until EoD and we 2 votes on blarg and 2 votes on malus.

9 votes missing ( me included )

Aeleus · May 17, 2020

Not actually that long till eod so will get a vote out.

Vote: Zippedpinhead

nin · May 17, 2020

Cant shake the feeling that there is something off with you Aeleus.
i hope there are no hard feelings when i tell you that i cant really buy into the role of yours. Being town that is...

Aeleus · May 17, 2020

nin said:
Cant shake the feeling that there is something off with you Aeleus.
i hope there are no hard feelings when i tell you that i cant really buy into the role of yours. Being town that is...

Then vote me

Off to eat now will be back for eod

Kyanrute · May 17, 2020

Natiko said:
I won't lie, if we didn't have the alignments of all the D1 wagons this would still look like one of the scummiest things imaginable lol

A good amount of the actual content Zipped provides D1 is about why he isn't sure about Kalor, and then he so quickly flips to turmoil all from reading one short post from Stu (and I mean short).

But where's the scum motivation? It can't have been to protect a scummate at this point. If he simply wanted to be on the leading wagon for whatever reason why be so tepid? If he was struggling with keeping up, why not ask his buddies in the scum chat on what to clue in on to shift to turm? It's just really hard to understand this move if it was coming from scum.

That swing is HMMMM considering...

Zippedpinhead said:
I got nothing to hide, so of the three I voted with the group's weird vote, I still think Stu is town Kalor? I could get behind a Kalor vote if it's a bad for town neutral vote

...the desire for some Kalor never went away. But what is the scum point in here like you said? Acknowledging the situation that he hasn't been active and won't be active during the weekend - tank the accusations and hope for the best? Could be town too doing that.

A ITA'd Zipped and is now voting for him.
malus switched to nin.
Dubs has no active vote.

Should check who was on that Zipped distraction D1.

B-Dubs your general thoughts related to life, universe and everything, if you would be so kind.

nin · May 17, 2020

Aeleus said:
Then vote me

Off to eat now will be back for eod

thing is.......Even though i do not condone the way you risked Donna... i will give you the benefit of the doubt for today....Then again i cant really put my finger on anyone else atm.
This situation just sucks.
I might be alone on this and also will be called out for a useless vote but fuck it.

Vote: Aeleus

SalvaPot · May 17, 2020

Kyanrute said:
What's the (soft?) case against her? Hunting unknowns instead of scum? One-dimensional hunting in general? How does the director thing factor into this? I find the 1st NAI, 2nd an issue, 3rd enough to not start the solving from her.

I already went in detail about my take on the director stuff, but the quick version is that Donna benefits from iit while A doesn't. The fact that this power is unrelated to both donna and A is really what is giving me pause. I was willing to park my vote there just for that, but since I can't move it I can think harder about it.

And I did. And what I am thinking now is. Why would Donna don't know anything about the director role while A did? If I was donna I'll be a lot more worried about that. I remember that back in Berserk mafia I was extremely paranoid about the Behelit when I got that at the start of the game and I tried to get more info about it. The way A played it makes more sense to me, bringing it up and trying to figure it out as early as possible. But A also clearly defended Donna from a shot, even if killing Donna would be good for A. This makes me think A truly believes Donna is town.

When A revealed that they know Donna was town, donna was like "ok, cool". Director is too much a dramatic title or name to just be that, a green check. There has to be more and Donna should be more worried about it, but she isn't.

That is where I am at right now.

Verelios · May 17, 2020

empressdonna said:
To use recent posts, this post by saliva I see as relatively townie and helpful:

but this post I can't tell if it is townie or not?

Though I am seeing a lot more townie aligned posts while doing this ISO o.o... hmmm

Thanks for explaining Donna.

Aeleus said:
Looking at his posts the only really serious work is giving a serious answer about who Nat should shoot, which as I've learnt from asking who to thunderdome in HvV2 is a scum magnet.

So definitely in the latter bubble.

Zippedpinhead why did you say you shared Sneeks reasoning on suspecting Muffin despite her reasoning being based on knowing his role.

Alright, that's cool. I see you voted for Zipped today.

Do you feel Zipped is more likely to be scum than Blarg?

empressdonna · May 17, 2020

SalvaPot said:
There has to be more and Donna should be more worried about it, but she isn't.

It might be weird not to be worried about it but outside of what A has told us, I don't know anything more - I just know that I've been called it. I don't know what that means at all - I don't know if it does anything to me at all.

Honestly, I don't know what to think about the whole thing - it just confuses me more than scares me right now, even if that doesn't make sense.

Verelios said:
Thanks for explaining Donna.

No worries, I was in between making and having dinner when I did the list so I probably could have explained it better initially ^^.

Blargonaut · May 17, 2020

whoa, hey! I'm back

Sorian? No?

Take your time?

nin · May 17, 2020

SalvaPot said:
When A revealed that they know Donna was town, donna was like "ok, cool". Director is too much a dramatic title or name to just be that, a green check. There has to be more and Donna should be more worried about it, but she isn't.

how do you feel about Aeleus then ?
I am completely backwards in the way i feel about it

Verelios · May 17, 2020

nin said:
Malus i initially wanted to get into you But when you said that i used the ITA for whatever reason just leads me to believe that you did not even care to read the thread. I mean you could have asked me why i did it like salva did several pages ago. i even responded and gave my reasoning. Did you skip that post or did you not care to bring it up since does not match the painting you are trying to do.

not going to deep dive since we are close to day end and you made up your kind for today.
see you tomorrow.

i for one will be here for the rest of the players until day end

Why did you say 'see you tomorrow' there?

Blargonaut · May 17, 2020

What a mad Day

Is there any particular reason why we'd really kill malus? Just because he survived being shot by Natiko, isn't really much of a scumtell is it?

nin · May 17, 2020

Verelios said:
Why did you say 'see you tomorrow' there?

I wrote that because i did not want to argue with him today.

nin · May 17, 2020

i see what you are implying though. does not look good in hindsight.

Kyanrute · May 17, 2020

Natiko said:
I'm honestly not entirely sure what to take away RE: kyan's thoughts from this post

The post is primarily about me wondering if Salva is actually reading what is being said in the thread or just skimming it. I believe we too touched on this matter: the number of people who were town reading turmoil before the read list. Salva said it was many and I thought it was two. You corrected me in our discussion at some point that it was actually three: I had missed Sawneeks' post where she referred to him as turm instead of "turmoil" - ctrl+f skipped over those. More to the point - what were my thoughts about turmoil at the time: list bad, reactions to the reactions bad, the context as in he felt he had to make that list because of Kalor's little push bad, people defending turmoil odd.

Blargonaut · May 17, 2020

nin said:
{+++}

Vote: Aeleus

But Aeleus is so helpful though

Verelios · May 17, 2020

nin said:
I wrote that because i did not want to argue with him today.

Yeah, but it's a weird flex considering how the game might go. Don't you think?

B-Dubs · May 17, 2020

Sorry, I've been beyond busy today. Gonna try and catch up real quick before day's end

nin · May 17, 2020

Verelios said:
Yeah, but it's a weird flex considering how the game might go. Don't you think?

it is. it is practically saying that i know that he will not be voted out.

Blargonaut · May 17, 2020

Has there been a recent GAME STATE SUMMARY post I can take a peek at, because total oof rn

Royal_Flush · May 17, 2020

Hi, I'm back. I also had a bit of wine with my dinner (it's 9pm here), so don't expect super clear in-depth reads from me right now...

But one thing: Even if more roles vanish, I don't see how that role would be Scum. Even if they can accumulate powers, I'd assume they take the switcher to fuck with investigation results over an investigator.

B-Dubs · May 17, 2020

Blargonaut said:
Has there been a recent GAME STATE SUMMARY post I can take a peek at, because total oof rn

Honestly, I could use that lol

SalvaPot · May 17, 2020

So I see that a malus train is building. Hmm, yeah I can see that. To be honest, read wise, I don't feel malus is thaaat great of a target, on day 1 he was not a huge poster but I felt he always made clear points, he also backed me up with the stu vote, that I still think was the right vote at day end.

And on day 2 I feel he is playing the pity role with the whole "I'm vanilla now, just kill me" bit. I mean, it already worked with muffin (Who I believe, btw), so might as well try it here. But I don't really think his power is just vest based, as he claims, there has to be more to it. And this last few posts he has made have been, in my mind, decent attempts at scum hunting. I feel players are dismissing them as "Stuff other people parroted", but if he was just scum there would be little point on asking people in looking at Natiko, because chances are we are going to look at Natiko if malus flips town, because Malus would be right and Natiko did shoot a townie. He made decent reads at Natiko, Blarg, Zip and nin. He is playing the game now and this tells me he wants to live.

But, to me at least, it comes down to the vest. If malus is vanilla as he said then he would have come out with a full claim right then and there, but he didn't he said he gave up. You can call it a heat of the moment, raw, emotion. But it could just be playing up the feelings. And that contradicts his clear will to live now.

I honestly don't know how to feel about malus, but I really think he is not a vanilla as he says he is now, what I can't decide if he is just trying to save himself as a scum player or would rather keep his other powers secrets so he can still use them against scum.

Blargonaut · May 17, 2020

Could I just have a confirmation of who the alleged confirmed Townsfolk are again pls? I'll admit I skimmed over a lot of text Today so forgive me if I've got my shits crooked:

Was it Royal_Flush, Sawneeks, empressdonna, Aeleus?

Sawneeks as Director? Aeleus and empress got 2 pre-game mod-messages saying they were confirmed Town?

Kyanrute · May 17, 2020

SalvaPot said:
I already went in detail about my take on the director stuff, but the quick version is that Donna benefits from iit while A doesn't. The fact that this power is unrelated to both donna and A is really what is giving me pause. I was willing to park my vote there just for that, but since I can't move it I can think harder about it.

And I did. And what I am thinking now is. Why would Donna don't know anything about the director role while A did? If I was donna I'll be a lot more worried about that. I remember that back in Berserk mafia I was extremely paranoid about the Behelit when I got that at the start of the game and I tried to get more info about it. The way A played it makes more sense to me, bringing it up and trying to figure it out as early as possible. But A also clearly defended Donna from a shot, even if killing Donna would be good for A. This makes me think A truly believes Donna is town.

When A revealed that they know Donna was town, donna was like "ok, cool". Director is too much a dramatic title or name to just be that, a green check. There has to be more and Donna should be more worried about it, but she isn't.

You doubt Donna because she is not afraid of something she does not know of? No, because she is too accepting of the whole thing, right? If so, ok. I just don't see what she can do about it. I thought you could move your vote now, I'd check this but I want to read Dubs before day end so I'll toss this back to you tyvm.

Dr. Monkey · May 17, 2020

Royal_Flush said:
Hi, I'm back. I also had a bit of wine with my dinner (it's 9pm here), so don't expect super clear in-depth reads from me right now...

But one thing: Even if more roles vanish, I don't see how that role would be Scum. Even if they can accumulate powers, I'd assume they take the switcher to fuck with investigation results over an investigator.

I think there's only the conspiracy take that they might absorb it to pocket folks and wreak havoc. Potentially, you could get two miskills out of it - "oh, these people are not the same alignment!" we kill one, town. we kill the other, town. then we get around to killing the liar if they can't convince us it must have been a broken result.

It's possible. But I mean, so are a lot of things and not really worth considering heavily right now.

Back until EoD, catching up a bit, gotta figure where to put my vote. This has been the longest phase somehow.

Dr. Monkey · May 17, 2020

Blargonaut said:
Could I just have a confirmation of who the alleged confirmed Townsfolk are again pls? I'll admit I skimmed over a lot of text Today so forgive me if I've got my shits crooked:

Was it Royal_Flush, Sawneeks, empressdonna, Aeleus?

Sawneeks as Director? Aeleus and empress got 2 pre-game mod-messages saying they were confirmed Town?

Blarg, can you be straight with me for a minute? Are you fucking with us or do you really have this quad THAT wrong?

Fran · May 17, 2020

==== DAY 2 VOTES ====
Day Start

malus (3 votes)
~~Sawneeks - #1,570~~ #2,262
Natiko - #2,217
~~Blargonaut - #2,250~~ #2,276
~~Zippedpinhead - #2,271~~ #2,273
Sawneeks - #2,279
~~Dr. Monkey - #2,297~~ #2,342
~~Royal_Flush - #2,346~~ #2,348
Kyanrute - #2,419

Blargonaut (2 votes)
~~Blargonaut - #1,414~~ #2,250
~~Stuart444 - #1,735~~ #2,238
empressdonna - #2,039
~~Blargonaut - #2,276~~ #2,304
Blargonaut - #2,313
~~Royal_Flush - #2,324~~ #2,326

Aeleus (1 votes)
~~Royal_Flush - #2,335~~ #2,337
Nin - #2,461

Nin (1 votes)
~~Royal_Flush - #2,343~~ #2,346
malus - #2,452

Zippedpinhead (1 votes)
~~Royal_Flush - #2,348~~ #2,350
Aeleus - #2,457

Dr. Monkey (0 votes)
~~Royal_Flush - #2,323~~ #2,324

Stuart444 (0 votes)
~~Kalor - #1,662~~ #2,058
~~SalvaPot - #1,678~~ #2,090
~~SalvaPot - #2,121~~ #2,299

Natiko (0 votes)
~~malus - #2,219~~ #2,452
~~Royal_Flush - #2,332~~ #2,333

B-Dubs (0 votes)
~~Royal_Flush - #2,339~~ #2,341

Royal_Flush (0 votes)
~~Blargonaut - #2,304~~ #2,313
~~Royal_Flush - #2,334~~ #2,335

Sawneeks (0 votes)
~~Royal_Flush - #2,328~~ #2,329

Kyanrute (0 votes)
~~Kyanrute - #2,284~~ #2,284
~~Royal_Flush - #2,337~~ #2,339

Verelios (0 votes)
~~Royal_Flush - #2,329~~ #2,332

Kalor (0 votes)
~~Muffin - #1,745~~ #2,395

empressdonna (0 votes)
~~Nin - #1,444~~ #1,825
~~Royal_Flush - #2,341~~ #2,343
~~SalvaPot - #2,357~~ #2,359

SalvaPot (0 votes)
~~Royal_Flush - #2,326~~ #2,328

Muffin (0 votes)
~~Royal_Flush - #2,333~~ #2,334
~~Dr. Monkey - #2,342~~ #2,416

Not voting: Dr. Monkey, Royal_Flush, Verelios, B-Dubs, SalvaPot, Muffin, Zippedpinhead

Post Counts:
Dr. Monkey: 178 Blargonaut: 117 Verelios: 84 Stuart444: 77 SalvaPot: 77 Nin: 77 Natiko: 62 Sawneeks: 62 Royal_Flush: 54 Kalor: 46 Kyanrute: 39 Aeleus: 39 Muffin: 36 malus: 32 empressdonna: 28 Zippedpinhead: 18 B-Dubs: 14

Current Countdown:

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

SalvaPot · May 17, 2020

empressdonna said:
It might be weird not to be worried about it but outside of what A has told us, I don't know anything more - I just know that I've been called it. I don't know what that means at all - I don't know if it does anything to me at all.

Honestly, I don't know what to think about the whole thing - it just confuses me more than scares me right now, even if that doesn't make sense.

No worries, I was in between making and having dinner when I did the list so I probably could have explained it better initially ^^.

Well, if it just confuses you then more reason to try to find out. If it didn't scare you then I don't see why not mention it first thing day 1.

nin said:
how do you feel about Aeleus then ?
I am completely backwards in the way i feel about it

I think A is town because of how they played this role. As I said on anoher post, I feel scum A would have taken the change to kill donna during the night, or wouldn't bother defending Donna when she was at risk of getting shot, since A should only be worried about a lunch, not a kill.

I do get the idea that this could be A getting townie points for clearing Donna, but, dunno, if this was planned by A, then all A did with the role (If its actually made by A) is put a marker of "Director" on donna. And then A would have to use that to bluff their way into a town-claim. And A would still need a real role to claim. A would get so little in return, since the mark means nothing to A's actual role, so A can still be scum with it and a cop might check. It does nothing to clear A.

Just the condition of it makes it so donna benefits and A really doesn't. They could both be lying, so it comes down to how they played it, and A played, in my mind, with a town mentality, while donna didn't care at all.

Aeleus · May 17, 2020

Back again, reposting because people seem to want it.

Aeleus said:
The Claim List DIY edition: I think that's everything (presented by Aeleus)

Verified Powers List:
-Sorian, Linked Cop: Checks 2 players each night to find if they share alignmen. Emitter?
-Turmoil, 2-shot Switcher: Manipulator?
-Geno, Lantern Master: Each day adds two players to a permanent gossip chat with geno, if a town player in the chat dies they enter a special dead chat with geno, targeted Muffin and Sawneeks D1. Transmuter?
-Stu, Insane Killer: Had 3 cop shots, 1 day vig shot (to be used by D3 and couldn't target a invest target) and an activatable BP vest, shot Sorian D1 and green checked Verelios N1. Conjurer.

-Kalor, Vote Hoarder: Planted a bomb on target who would die 24hrs into next day phase, Kalor would get a point for every vote on the target when they died and winned with 10 points. Specialist?

Claimed Powers List:
-Dr. Monkey, ITA creator: Can start an ITA mini game with a 10% hit chance at the beginning of the day, mini game lasts 24 hours. Emitter.
-Natiko, ITA Creator and Master: Can start an ITA mini game with a 10% hit chance at the beginning of the day, mini game lasts 24 hours. Boosts theirs and a targets hit chance to 100%. Ability verified D2, no-one hit with a random shot. Emitter.
-Sawneeks, ???: Learnt Royal was town at start of game, claims role was based on the Emissary. Transmuter.
-Royal, ???: Targeted Monkey and Kalor N1, power seems to come into affect after target dies.
-Malus, ???: Had a 1-shot BP vest claimed to have lost all power after losing it. BP verified by being shot D2.

Mysteries:
The Director: Donna was told they were the director at game start and Aeleus was told that Donna was the director, was town and that something bad would happen to them if Donna was lunched. Whoever caused this effect hasn't claimed so is likely an evil ability.
The vote locker: At some point in D2 Salva couldn't unvote Stu and Blarg couldn't unvote blarg, causing stu to die. Almost certainly a scum ability.
The post mortem vaniliser: Sorian's Will was altered to become vanilla at some point. Edit time indicated it happened during N1.

Case Closed:
The hijacked powers!: It was initially thought Monkeys power had been hijacked but it turned out that her's and Natiko's were just very similar. Sawneeks role also seems to share similarities to the director mystery but seems unrelated.

ITA results:
Dr. Monkey -> Kalor [Neutral]: Hit and killed!
Natiko -> Malus: Hit and survived...
Bear/Nin [Nin] -> Nin [Nin]: Miss
Stu [Town] -> Kalor [Neutral]: Miss
Donna [Town?] -> Blargonaut: Miss
Royal [Town?] -> Kalor [Neutral]: Miss
Blargonaut -> Donna [Town?]: Miss
SalvaPot -> Stu [Town]: Miss
Muffin -> Kalor [Neutral]: Miss
Verelios -> Blargonaut: Miss
malus -> Zipped: Miss
Zipped -> Muffin: Miss
Aeleus -> Zipped: Miss
Kyanrute -> Muffin: Miss
B-Dubs -> Zipped: Miss
Sneeks -> Malus: Miss
Kalor [Neutral] -> Zipped: Miss

Dr. Monkey · May 17, 2020

SalvaPot said:
So I see that a malus train is building. Hmm, yeah I can see that. To be honest, read wise, I don't feel malus is thaaat great of a target, on day 1 he was not a huge poster but I felt he always made clear points, he also backed me up with the stu vote, that I still think was the right vote at day end.

And on day 2 I feel he is playing the pity role with the whole "I'm vanilla now, just kill me" bit. I mean, it already worked with muffin (Who I believe, btw), so might as well try it here. But I don't really think his power is just vest based, as he claims, there has to be more to it. And this last few posts he has made have been, in my mind, decent attempts at scum hunting. I feel players are dismissing them as "Stuff other people parroted", but if he was just scum there would be little point on asking people in looking at Natiko, because chances are we are going to look at Natiko if malus flips town, because Malus would be right and Natiko did shoot a townie. He made decent reads at Natiko, Blarg, Zip and nin. He is playing the game now and this tells me he wants to live.

But, to me at least, it comes down to the vest. If malus is vanilla as he said then he would have come out with a full claim right then and there, but he didn't he said he gave up. You can call it a heat of the moment, raw, emotion. But it could just be playing up the feelings. And that contradicts his clear will to live now.

I honestly don't know how to feel about malus, but I really think he is not a vanilla as he says he is now, what I can't decide if he is just trying to save himself as a scum player or would rather keep his other powers secrets so he can still use them against scum.

Oof, Salva, I wanted to tell you that I thought your donna post was fascinating - I dunno if I agree with it (I don't think we have enough information right now to say either way), but it was a good, original take, well considered, offering a new angle. And then there's this.

No, Stu was not the right vote yesterday. Objectively, we KNOW it wasn't the right vote. Meta-wise, Sorian IS a big boogeyman and Stu IS emotional and reactive. The thread pushed that because we are ALSO emotional and reactive. Kalor banked on us continuing down that path, in fact. That alone should tell you something.

Second, someone wanting to live, if alignment indicative, may well be more scum indicative than town, especially if malus's role is as "useless" as he said yesterday. No scum is useless. Scum may sacrifice in the right circumstances, but if the largest pushes on malus come from town players, there's limited town cred to be had from subsequent malus voters. Meaning a scum body, period, is more valuable alive than dead.

As for malus's reads themselves, well, I'll get to those in a minute.

Your final stance of "idk" is accurate, I think, but how on earth you get "Stu was a good d1 vote and we should have killed him and people who supported that are good!" out of this, I really don't know. All of that, Stu's action, our reactions, that was all suboptimal play and it eventually got Stu killed when it shouldn't have because a neutral read both the room and the community meta.

Natiko · May 17, 2020

Sorry all, don't think I'm going to have time to finish that analysis before day end. Going to at least check Malus to see what that does to my current thoughts. Didn't expect to be busy rn.

SalvaPot · May 17, 2020

Kyanrute said:
You doubt Donna because she is not afraid of something she does not know of? No, because she is too accepting of the whole thing, right? If so, ok. I just don't see what she can do about it. I thought you could move your vote now, I'd check this but I want to read Dubs before day end so I'll toss this back to you tyvm.

I'm not voting anyone right now

malus · May 17, 2020

Half an hour until EoD and half the roster is not voting.
I must be really useless to Scum if they didn't even attempt to save me when the strongest argument against me is that I might not actually be disappointed about losing my BP.

Dr. Monkey · May 17, 2020

malus said:
Half an hour until EoD and half the roster is not voting.
I must be really useless to Scum if they didn't even attempt to save me when the strongest argument against me is that I might not actually be disappointed about losing my BP.

nobody's really moving to save or slaughter anyone right now if the roster isn't voting tho

malus · May 17, 2020

Dr. Monkey said:
nobody's really moving to save or slaughter anyone right now if the roster isn't voting tho

Exactly. People are content with the current state.

Also I'm just going to say, no I'm not completely vanilla, but so severely neutered that it's not that much different.

SalvaPot · May 17, 2020

Dr. Monkey said:
Oof, Salva, I wanted to tell you that I thought your donna post was fascinating - I dunno if I agree with it (I don't think we have enough information right now to say either way), but it was a good, original take, well considered, offering a new angle. And then there's this.

No, Stu was not the right vote yesterday. Objectively, we KNOW it wasn't the right vote. Meta-wise, Sorian IS a big boogeyman and Stu IS emotional and reactive. The thread pushed that because we are ALSO emotional and reactive. Kalor banked on us continuing down that path, in fact. That alone should tell you something.

Second, someone wanting to live, if alignment indicative, may well be more scum indicative than town, especially if malus's role is as "useless" as he said yesterday. No scum is useless. Scum may sacrifice in the right circumstances, but if the largest pushes on malus come from town players, there's limited town cred to be had from subsequent malus voters. Meaning a scum body, period, is more valuable alive than dead.

As for malus's reads themselves, well, I'll get to those in a minute.

Your final stance of "idk" is accurate, I think, but how on earth you get "Stu was a good d1 vote and we should have killed him and people who supported that are good!" out of this, I really don't know. All of that, Stu's action, our reactions, that was all suboptimal play and it eventually got Stu killed when it shouldn't have because a neutral read both the room and the community meta.

I think Stu getting voted out would have probably saved malus, who up to that point I felt may be a mislunch. When Stu killed Sorian I had the theory that it may have been to save malus from that train that was forming, but it could also just be Stu trying to get rid of a powerful town player and masking it as paranoia. If we want to be optimal the right vote back then was Kalor, but second would have been Stu over malus.

If Stu was scum, then chances are malus was scum too. But if Stu was town, then chances are malus was unrelated but also would give him a chance to be read one more day and decide what to do with him.

Blargonaut · May 17, 2020

Dr. Monkey said:
Blarg, can you be straight with me for a minute? Are you fucking with us or do you really have this quad THAT wrong?

Was it that bad?

I thought I was able to get down at least a passable resemblance

Natiko · May 17, 2020

There's really not much here.

malus said:
Turmoil's behaviour makes me think he has some kind of lunch protection.

Brief reaction to turm's reads list and the ensuing conversations.

malus said:
I'm not sure if I want to vote Turmoil or Stu at the moment

malus said:
vote: Stuart444

Ponders who to go to then votes Stu.

malus said:
Stu's shot was just all around unnecessary. He could have shot Turmoil who he allegedly scum read anyway, but instead sowed chaos by shooting Sorian.

Half an hour later right before day end shares his reason for landing on Stu. It's pretty thin all around which is probably NAI for someone with as little engagement as Malus had? Doesn't really move the needle either way for me.

Going to catch up on the posts I haven't read now

Dr. Monkey · May 17, 2020

malus said:
vote: nin
After those rereads, nin comes away the worst in my opinion.

So there you have it. I have a headache and I haven't eaten all day, so maybe I'll be back later. Do whatever you like with that.

This is fascinating. I wanna break down my reaction to maybe engage some conversation with everyone:

On the one hand, this is pretty original. Nobody else is digging that much into nin, much less voting him (or wasn't until Vere asked him a question, but that was just a conversation). There are a few ways to potentially read this:
-it's a legit scumhunting vote and townmalus thinks nin is scum
-counterpoint: so far I think it's hard to say this because malus hasn't really tried to drum up many votes and
-I feel like nin is not super likely to die today
-another counterpoint: while not impossible for scum to start trains, it's not unheard of, but
-why waste time on one that won't go anywhere, maybe? seems like wasted effort. so is it legit or performative? I'm really not sure here.

But what bugs me a bit is that malus started the day with pushing back on my townread of nin's entrance:

malus said:
I'm not as convinced by nin as you seem to be. His first post was just a rehash of what was already said on D1 and it doesn't remove the awkwardness that was Bear's play. Though it seems a bit unfair to shoot someone that just subbed in.

Looking back on the vote graph from yesterday, I'm also coming back to Zipped. I don't like his reasoning for his late votes very much.

Stu is in a strange place for me at the moment. He was just very erratic and his actions don't seem to make sense. Additionally him immediately using his ITA could be because he anticipated to be shot himself and wanted to get it out early.

So all in all I'd say its
Stu > Zipped > nin

malus said:
I don't mind a little rehash, but I also expect a little more than just the obvious. And his vote on Donna feels like a D1 prod vote.

A few things here:

Zipped has been FAR more erratic than nin today, from both a meta angle and from a current-content angle. But malus settles on nin. As things have developed, how has nin really gotten scummier over the day vs Zipped? That's odd to me.

But that rehash thing is what I keep coming back to. I really don't know how much of malus's posts aren't a rehash themselves (I'm about to go through them as quickly as I can but I'm short on time) of things other people have said, outside the nin content.

and malus in general? offers vote data, which is both useful but can also be considered, at the root, a rehash-
and if he's rehashing in his own posts-
is he projecting?

Ugh, I really don't know if I have time to figure this out today and if I don't I don't know if I'll gamble my vote there.

Overall: One of the biggest things that stands out to me is that malus avoids some questions or just answers them sideways - very similar to Kalor, in fact, in terms of response. For instance, the Natiko read. He doesn't answer me directly but just snarks in response and it's really a very easy question: if you don't scumread me, why scumread Natiko without additional information than what we have right now? If you have a reason to disagree with that, it should be easy enough to answer directly. If you don't, but want to sow doubt anyway, you sidestep or deflect. malus impressively did both.

empressdonna · May 17, 2020

SalvaPot said:
Well, if it just confuses you then more reason to try to find out. If it didn't scare you then I don't see why not mention it first thing day 1.

I just didn't think about bringing it up d1? I mean, all I would know if I did it yesterday instead of today is the same thing I know now, and that doesn't really clear up my confusion at all.

Dr. Monkey · May 17, 2020

Blargonaut said:
Could I just have a confirmation of who the alleged confirmed Townsfolk are again pls? I'll admit I skimmed over a lot of text Today so forgive me if I've got my shits crooked:

Was it Royal_Flush, Sawneeks, empressdonna, Aeleus?

Sawneeks as Director? Aeleus and empress got 2 pre-game mod-messages saying they were confirmed Town?

Blargonaut said:
Was it that bad?

I thought I was able to get down at least a passable resemblance

lol yes it was

donna got a PM saying she was the director
A got a PM saying donna was the director and the director is town (and A will die if she is voted out).

Sneeks claimed a variation on a role that gave her a confirmed town; that town is Flush.

Vere was green-checked by Stu.

Royal_Flush · May 17, 2020

malus said:
Half an hour until EoD and half the roster is not voting.
I must be really useless to Scum if they didn't even attempt to save me when the strongest argument against me is that I might not actually be disappointed about losing my BP.

This argument is bad. There was a reason you were shot in the first place.

Dr. Monkey · May 17, 2020

empressdonna said:
I just didn't think about bringing it up d1? I mean, all I would know if I did it yesterday instead of today is the same thing I know now, and that doesn't really clear up my confusion at all.

You didn't think it would be helpful or it never ever occurred to you to maybe ask about this thing that was confusing? That's an important distinction here, I think.

Greed Island Mafia |OT|: *Insert joke here*

Asked Politely

Asked Politely

Asked Politely

Asked Politely

Asked Politely

One Winged Slayer

Asked Politely

Asked Politely

Asked Politely

That's some catch, that catch-22

Asked Politely

That's some catch, that catch-22

One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer

Greed Island Mafia |OT|: Insert joke here