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MafiEra Mafia |OT| The Day of the Blargonauts
- Thread starter The Bear
- Start date
Emphasis on this point. They've lost two teammates in a row. Are we really to expect that they'd just let a third get lynched without saying anything at all? We're only 2 votes away; I could decide to switch at any moment and it'd be 1.
I'll say this: it's a bold strategy they're going for if malus is indeed scum. And, again... it's not paying off.
OP
OP
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start
malus (7 votes)
rac - #3,957 #4,117
fandorin - #4,159
rac - #4,212
brazil - #4,231
lone_prodigy - #4,378
fluxwavez - #4,423 #4,564
kyanrute - #4,473
ceecee - #4,512
natiko - #4,580
blargonaut - #4,581 #4,600
fandorin (4 votes)
fluxwavez - #3,902 #3,963
sorian - #3,907 #4,432
fantomas - #3,912 #3,992
sawneeks - #3,913
fluxwavez - #3,965 #3,999
fantomas - #4,360
pirate bae - #4,391
blargonaut - #4,534 #4,581
fluxwavez - #4,564
brazil (3 votes)
ezekelrage - #4,218 #4,254
fluxwavez - #4,220 #4,423
ezekelrage - #4,261
fran - #4,373
sorian - #4,432
rac (0 votes)
rac - #4,117 #4,212
ezekelrage (0 votes)
brazil - #3,896 #3,991
sawneeks (0 votes)
natiko - #3,921 #4,580
fluxwavez (0 votes)
brazil - #3,991 #4,231
fantomas - #3,992 #4,141
sorian (0 votes)
blargonaut - #4,020 #4,534
ezekelrage - #4,188 #4,218
ceecee (0 votes)
ezekelrage - #3,893 #4,188
Post Counts:
ezekelrage: 75 sorian: 75 fantomas: 74 dr. monkey: 68 brazil: 67 fluxwavez: 57 blargonaut: 42 fandorin: 41 fran: 40 sawneeks: 34 rac: 26 natiko: 25 kyanrute: 16 grizzly: 13 ceecee: 13 malus: 12 pirate bae: 10 absolutbro: 8 lone_prodigy: 8 fireblend: 6
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Day Start
malus (7 votes)
fandorin - #4,159
rac - #4,212
brazil - #4,231
lone_prodigy - #4,378
kyanrute - #4,473
ceecee - #4,512
natiko - #4,580
fandorin (4 votes)
sawneeks - #3,913
fantomas - #4,360
pirate bae - #4,391
fluxwavez - #4,564
brazil (3 votes)
ezekelrage - #4,261
fran - #4,373
sorian - #4,432
rac (0 votes)
ezekelrage (0 votes)
sawneeks (0 votes)
fluxwavez (0 votes)
sorian (0 votes)
ceecee (0 votes)
Post Counts:
ezekelrage: 75 sorian: 75 fantomas: 74 dr. monkey: 68 brazil: 67 fluxwavez: 57 blargonaut: 42 fandorin: 41 fran: 40 sawneeks: 34 rac: 26 natiko: 25 kyanrute: 16 grizzly: 13 ceecee: 13 malus: 12 pirate bae: 10 absolutbro: 8 lone_prodigy: 8 fireblend: 6
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
But guys, malus is scum, our super brazilian bros even listed bullet points for me.
I've been vaguely paying attention, don't have a lot to add, AB's good reads got delayed to a part 3 and monkey is reading (and complimenting!) old bastard games.
I like Blarg more though, solving the scum strats for them is lock trolling.
I've been vaguely paying attention, don't have a lot to add, AB's good reads got delayed to a part 3 and monkey is reading (and complimenting!) old bastard games.
I like Blarg more though, solving the scum strats for them is lock trolling.
Bear let me create my own Role for this game, I had to mix-n'-match from given presets though
Just wasn't sure since you started out the day touting a desire to push Fan due to connections with Faddy and then proceeded to spend the whole day phase defending Malus instead.
If Blarg misses his water cannon in the middle of the forest but no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?
Up and down. My problem with Sorian is that I generally assume any possible play would be considered by him if scum. For instance - earlier when we talked about ketkat's death. Was that scum Sorian playing up being slow to the take on some of the implications of ketkat's death? Or would scum Sorian take the more bold approach of broaching the subject himself? I feel like everything with him is a constant case of WIFOM. I don't like his most recent posts trolling over the malus votes while simultaneously doing nothing to consolidate the wagons which is what I pretty much expect from Sorian no matter the alignment.
Why would I consolidate the wagons? No one is going to turbo because this community is anti turbo and most are asleep or turning in now anyway plus it's not like malus is an end of the world vote that I need to prevent, there's a 1% slice of pie here where I'm completely off base and it is just malus but then, as already pointed out, scum would be bussing and another one would be lynched, three down in four days? Lol
I swear this is my third time explaining this, but I do not believe Saw and Fan are possible scummates. My scumread of Saw is strongest overall and if I had my way we'd be flipping her today. Between Fan and Brazil I think Fan is the more likely scum, a mix of Fan's day ends and his comfort with slipping in the background to let others (Brazil) defend him. I really don't buy the Brazil scumreads at all - coming off of KH Brazil's demeanor towards Fan is completely different. Hell his defense is so impassioned and vitriolic he even started OMGUSing people that were voting his brother. I find it really hard to see that as scum unless you fall in the camp that thinks they're both scum and are feeling the pressure to not get stomped this game and are willing to be that aggro with their scummate defenses (I don't find this scenario likely at all). Ultimely with Brazil feeling town to me and Fan seeming like a worse option than Saw, it doesn't really give me any desire to hop onto a Fan vote with my top scumread.
If it wasn't against the rules (and I wasn't lazy) I'm sure I could go find dozens of examples of you consolidating wagons and advocating that runaway wagons are bad for scum hunting compared to forcing ties and making people choose. It really has nothing to do with who is or isn't in the lead and more to do with a deviation from your standard play.
You aren't wrong but, again, we're still too far out, no one is around (except you and probably Blarg) and there's no shift I could currently do that ties a vote. I've already said I think the malus wagon is shit specifically for it being a runaway.
Maybe it's just rare for this to happen this far from day end. Dunno. Just struck me as odd for you to be clearly thinking that but not taking action is all.
I would argue that the Fandorin flip still provides you with info on Saw moving forward, as well as Brazil, and other pretty hard to read players IMO. And I do think there have been solid cases made for the last couple day phases about his scumminess, from myself and others.
If Saw is on a Scum Team and is trying to mislynch Fandorin right now, who do you think her partners could be?
If Fandorin is on a Scum Team and is trying to mislynch Malus right now, who do you think his partners could be?
If they are both Town, what is Scum trying to do right now?
Now, of course, I still do think Malus could be Scum here, so I don't want to seem like I'm fighting too hard here to get someone else lynched because, honestly, he's kind of scummy too, and I kind of do want that flip too.
But, where will you go with info about Malus's alignment tomorrow, assuming we lynch him instead?
Fandorin (and malus) - analyzing Fandorin's malus vote can't happen without Fandorin's history
Way back in 3569, I pointed out that Fandorin's read of Faddy, which he declared town, did not look like a townread. It's also where he sets up a connection between Faddy and malus - based on the "memeing" comment, so far as I can tell, since it's the only thing in this read that mentions malus - again, the rest of the case Fandorin and Brazil have built has been layered and added to over time to make it seem stronger. At the time, though, I was not thinking about malus; it was Fandorin's read on Faddy, because while he town leaned Faddy, he leaves a lot of room for Faddy to be scum and what he would do if Faddy was scum.
Before that, I'd started with Fandorin's d2 readlist in 3139; at that time, whether it is worth noting or not, he had malus as a lean town with no text. His scum potentials at that point were Flux, Zubz, Ketkat, Bae, rac. Obviously claims and flips changed some things. I pointed out some things I felt were inconsistent and some that were. He also quoted malus's Bae vote pre-claim to make his vote.
Last phase, after Fandorin did some analysis on Faddy (mentioned above), he voted malus.
1. He hasn't added much since d1 - There are a lot of people we could say this about, so why malus?
2. Has weird posts pushing others without an actual angle - which is interesting considering Fandorin quoted malus's vote d2 to place his own
3. finally, and OMGUS angle (and the example he give is something malus and I both talked about)
These three reasons at this point are the basis of Fandorin's read on malus, a lynch he has voted for over two phases now.
Fandorin addressed quoting malus's post when he voted for Bae:
And I think this is whatever, lots of people scumread Bae before that claim. What I find inconsistent is that he could place the vote without quoting malus's vote and post. He had his reasons. But clearly he didn't think malus had nothing to offer, because he did choose to specifically say he agreed with the vote.
In a few posts I didn't grab, Fandorin eyerolls at the idea that scum would create a third wagon if two scum were up on the block, like it was ridiculous and how dare anyone suggest it. I find this surprising, because... wtf else are scum going to do? It does happen, it has happened, it's not unheard of at all, but he's acting like it's impossible. These were around the late 3600s.
This is where things start to get a little weird:
This idea of the malus wagon being "pure." Brazil is an unknown. Fireblend is an unknown. Natiko is an unknown, rac is an unknown. No one on that train is pure. That's not what that word connotes in this community or any other that I've seen or heard of. But this isn't the only time this came up today and while Fandorin wants to eyeroll away the observations that he continued to repeat that he's town, he's doing the same thing here with this notion of purity. Repeating something you want accepted as truth is a basic rhetorical strategy. It's not some shit we are making up. It is called the reiteration effect.
And I realize that he's not the only one doing it, or doing it the most - Brazil is doing it. But this notion of purity, since both mentioned it, likely originated in their boat, and it's simply wrong.
I believe Sorian is town after our boat. I would not call him pure. I mean, he's not my brother or anything, but while I feel strongly that he's town, I would call him pure because words mean things.
Then there's this:
Okay. Here we agree. I think there is scum in the low posters. But with everything I said to Brazil early on his/their case, I don't think it's malus. It also hasn't been the focus of the day - we are whittling down the low posters. The focus has been the "case" they created.
I also want to see Fandorin expand on rac. I love rac and I don't think his posts have been scummy but I want to see more than a drive-by here.
Since it is related, I will pick up with the last bit of Brazil's summarized malus case.
2. This point is actually more about Sorian? So I guess they're a team now.
3. In 3558, you accuse malus of making assumptions, and the basis of your accusation is... assumption. In the other one, you're suggesting that of the four people malus named in his post, he voted for the wrong one, according to you. But he did give reasons for each. You just didn't like them. There have been plenty of votes without reasons in this game.
4. It's true - he said it and he didn't do much. That doesn't equal scum. Bae, CeeCee, malus, AbBro, and LP all have fewer posts than Grizzly across the entire game. Are they all scum?
5 & 6. Maybe he had a good reason to be gone and maybe he didn't. But what he puts in that post should be the first red flag that he's a little lost. "I'll fucking die if we have two town doctors." His lack of familiarity with the community is clear there. Which makes me think he could easily be responding in ways that people just don't like. Don't let your playstyle bias become a scumread.
Way back in 3569, I pointed out that Fandorin's read of Faddy, which he declared town, did not look like a townread. It's also where he sets up a connection between Faddy and malus - based on the "memeing" comment, so far as I can tell, since it's the only thing in this read that mentions malus - again, the rest of the case Fandorin and Brazil have built has been layered and added to over time to make it seem stronger. At the time, though, I was not thinking about malus; it was Fandorin's read on Faddy, because while he town leaned Faddy, he leaves a lot of room for Faddy to be scum and what he would do if Faddy was scum.
Before that, I'd started with Fandorin's d2 readlist in 3139; at that time, whether it is worth noting or not, he had malus as a lean town with no text. His scum potentials at that point were Flux, Zubz, Ketkat, Bae, rac. Obviously claims and flips changed some things. I pointed out some things I felt were inconsistent and some that were. He also quoted malus's Bae vote pre-claim to make his vote.
Last phase, after Fandorin did some analysis on Faddy (mentioned above), he voted malus.
His scum read on malus is:
1. He hasn't added much since d1 - There are a lot of people we could say this about, so why malus?
2. Has weird posts pushing others without an actual angle - which is interesting considering Fandorin quoted malus's vote d2 to place his own
3. finally, and OMGUS angle (and the example he give is something malus and I both talked about)
These three reasons at this point are the basis of Fandorin's read on malus, a lynch he has voted for over two phases now.
Fandorin addressed quoting malus's post when he voted for Bae:
And I think this is whatever, lots of people scumread Bae before that claim. What I find inconsistent is that he could place the vote without quoting malus's vote and post. He had his reasons. But clearly he didn't think malus had nothing to offer, because he did choose to specifically say he agreed with the vote.
In a few posts I didn't grab, Fandorin eyerolls at the idea that scum would create a third wagon if two scum were up on the block, like it was ridiculous and how dare anyone suggest it. I find this surprising, because... wtf else are scum going to do? It does happen, it has happened, it's not unheard of at all, but he's acting like it's impossible. These were around the late 3600s.
This is where things start to get a little weird:
This idea of the malus wagon being "pure." Brazil is an unknown. Fireblend is an unknown. Natiko is an unknown, rac is an unknown. No one on that train is pure. That's not what that word connotes in this community or any other that I've seen or heard of. But this isn't the only time this came up today and while Fandorin wants to eyeroll away the observations that he continued to repeat that he's town, he's doing the same thing here with this notion of purity. Repeating something you want accepted as truth is a basic rhetorical strategy. It's not some shit we are making up. It is called the reiteration effect.
And I realize that he's not the only one doing it, or doing it the most - Brazil is doing it. But this notion of purity, since both mentioned it, likely originated in their boat, and it's simply wrong.
I believe Sorian is town after our boat. I would not call him pure. I mean, he's not my brother or anything, but while I feel strongly that he's town, I would call him pure because words mean things.
Then there's this:
Okay. Here we agree. I think there is scum in the low posters. But with everything I said to Brazil early on his/their case, I don't think it's malus. It also hasn't been the focus of the day - we are whittling down the low posters. The focus has been the "case" they created.
I also want to see Fandorin expand on rac. I love rac and I don't think his posts have been scummy but I want to see more than a drive-by here.
Since it is related, I will pick up with the last bit of Brazil's summarized malus case.
1. malus himself answered this. Also, since when is it an issue when someone doesn't OMGUS vote?
2. This point is actually more about Sorian? So I guess they're a team now.
3. In 3558, you accuse malus of making assumptions, and the basis of your accusation is... assumption. In the other one, you're suggesting that of the four people malus named in his post, he voted for the wrong one, according to you. But he did give reasons for each. You just didn't like them. There have been plenty of votes without reasons in this game.
4. It's true - he said it and he didn't do much. That doesn't equal scum. Bae, CeeCee, malus, AbBro, and LP all have fewer posts than Grizzly across the entire game. Are they all scum?
5 & 6. Maybe he had a good reason to be gone and maybe he didn't. But what he puts in that post should be the first red flag that he's a little lost. "I'll fucking die if we have two town doctors." His lack of familiarity with the community is clear there. Which makes me think he could easily be responding in ways that people just don't like. Don't let your playstyle bias become a scumread.
I think Brazil is reaching more than Fandorin today, but last phase Fandorin came off far scummier to me.
I also read some of Conspiracy as well as some of the Conspiracy scum chat and I think malus was much more comfortable there than he was here. He was not a volume poster, but he had ideas and contributions in the scum chat, and was more aggressive in the game thread. There was some hedging but it was usually a bit shorter and less explanatory, at least in my read, and he was more inclined to engage people with questions and reads.
I'm not seeing the same play here. It's not impossible, because it probably depends on the makeup of the team, but this malus does not seem like that malus.
I'm not seeing the same play here. It's not impossible, because it probably depends on the makeup of the team, but this malus does not seem like that malus.
I'm kinda caught up (read the last 5 pages or so) and I think Malus isn't a bad lynch overall. Brazil and Fandorin's coordinated push does come off as possibly coordinated, but weren't they on a love boat together? Enough people seem to scum read Malus that it's probably a lynch we'd have to get to eventually anyway, and will give us some good info on our brothers. That's what I think atm
But as I consider the malus case to be constructed wholecloth for reasons, whether they be a legitimate and wrongheaded attempt to solve or for a scum agenda, it's still intrinsically wrapped up with Fandorin in particular, and Brazil as well. So you can be catty if you think it's gonna get you somewhere, but we're not talking about separate issues here.
Brazil, I really think, is just being stubborn here, and it's got him digging a deep hole. I think the malus wagon arose to protect Fandorin.
vote: Fandorin[/vote]
jk a wild Febe has appeared.
If you are caught up, I would really like to year your actual thoughts on scumminess, not just info, especially since there is very little to read you on in this game.
No, I just mean I kind of remember being an asshole and having about 30 meltdowns in there, so I can't imagine I looked good haha.
Being scum is rough. I prayed for death throughout GoT and PR. Cluedo and the girl gang was nice, tho.
Anyway, I really hope some people weigh in on my big post to Brazil and the ones from just now. I feel like Brazil is scummier but I can't reconcile that with the malus wagon unless malus is actually scum and I'm on the wrong track, so I think the flip probably does need to be between Fandorin and malus.
I was feeling good about Kyan until he went on the malus vote. Not loving that. Very uncertain about Sawneeks and Febe.
I'm not all caught up. I have some huge blanks on yesterday and the first 2/3rds of today pretty much, so I'm mostly piggybacking on others' reads. My impressions from the last 5 pages is that Brazil went hard on defending Fandorin after a hard push on him and part of was defense was diverting suspicion towards Malus. I don't know, I know they're brothers and were on a love boat so I can see Brazil going for the blind defense when trusting scum!fan.
On the other hand Fandorin has a point about there being a lot of "unreadables" like LP, Blarg and Zeke that we eventually have to turn our attention to, and I think it'd be generous to even put Malus in that group.
Either seems to be a fine lynch to me.
Either between Fandorin and Malus, I mean. I voted for Malus yesterday so obviously if he flips scum I get to feel better about myself, which is a plus, but I can kinda see the rationale behind the Fandorin push, even if it's a reflection of a part of the game that I wasn't here for (the reflection being Brazil's defense of him).
I kind of agree about Brazil because of what Sorian was saying earlier, and Brazil's reaction to it, trying to warn me about being pocketed. I feel like I've been about as fair to all the people I've engaged with as I can, so it was weird for him to seem defensive over me talking to Sorian about him. I can still see a world where Sorian is Scum (sorry for saying this to you directly) so it just gave me a bad feeling about where he's coming from.
Fandorin and Malus are the flips I would want most today though, yep.
Agreed about Kyan too, the fact that he chose Malus to do that post about and seems to not be looking to put that effort into Fandorin or Brazil has me raising an eyebrow.
Uncertain about Saw and FB is about where I would say I am as well.
So yeah, similar thoughts haha.
Dude, no, Sorian can always be scum. Our chat is at least one third me going ARE YOU FUCKING SCUM HERE I HATE YOU and him laughing at me. The rest was work.
Okay, for real, bed. And I see your response, Febe. When you have more concrete thoughts, I think everyone would appreciate them.
I'll be in bed most of this weekend as I'll be home after a week of intense 10-hour work days in middle of nowhere USA so I'll be more than happy to catch up in between bouts of sleep.
He was on my list yesterday, inadvertently dropped him off the list first time I posted it.
Adding to this, but departing from malus and focusing more on Brazil:
Then votes for malus in the same post. Why not... just vote for Brazil? I'd have to go back and look, but I don't recall Fandorin ever doubting Brazil or questioning him much. More like giving him the benefit of the doubt when he could.
Also would just like to note this read, but it was a while before the major downgrade from town to "top scum." I'll say, though, that I don't feel the reasons he stated for his above read substantiate it.
A proposal: the three currently voting on Brazil could move their votes to Fandorin. It's become Fandorin vs. malus. Another wild claim might change this, but that's the current trajectory.
At least, I assume Fran and Sorian would be fine with this, based on what you guys said?
For Zeke, I'm not sure. Actually, you have managed to not mention Fandorin much at all this day phase, with all I'm finding being this as part of a larger CeeCee read:
At least, I assume Fran and Sorian would be fine with this, based on what you guys said?
For Zeke, I'm not sure. Actually, you have managed to not mention Fandorin much at all this day phase, with all I'm finding being this as part of a larger CeeCee read:
If you'd rather see him lynched than malus, you could consider this as well.
If we simply break Brazil, he'll become 300% more Town-driven
We will witness unprecedented reads, the beast Town, the Government, unleash it just vote Fandorin
RIP'd scum
picnic on shitpost coast
We will witness unprecedented reads, the beast Town, the Government, unleash it just vote Fandorin
RIP'd scum
picnic on shitpost coast
Sure, but this is like saying "I know you think A is town and B is scum, but since they're linked at this point why not just go ahead and vote out the person you think is town in order to get to the lynch you desire?" Literally the only thing the current votes make me want to do is go back to voting Sawneeks and saying fuck everyone else - this is the hill I'll die on. That won't resolve anything though so I'll stand pat on the person I think is more likely to be scum of the two.
These are all hypotheticals that would lead me to do differing analysis/ISOs in order to actually figure out where to go next. If Saw is scum then I think Fan and Brazil are town, I look at the people that were really happy to slide onto those votes without actually presenting much of a case last phase and this one. If Fan is scum then I swallow my pride, let my scumread of Saw go, and get mislynched honestly so at that point it's whatever - but in my dying words I would probably be telling people to look in the group of players that aren't putting in much work to solve anything - I think there's scum here no matter what shakes out from Fan/Brazil/malus. My pick for it was LP, and I'm not entirely sure that his couple of meaningful posts today changes that entirely, but it could be Blarg or rac as well. I stand by my read of Zeke as town. Fireblend is just a big ??? at this point and probably needs to be lynched if he doesn't start showing up eventually. If Sorian lives too long kill him. It's all a process though.
I'll look over votes to and from malus over the last couple of days and look back through key events to see if anything jumps out. You may as well be asking me how I play mafia lol If you're wanting a specific direction then it's Saw either way.
I mean - we kind of are unless you're arguing they must be of different alignments. I'm over your mocking tone though - especially coming from someone that complains when someone does it to you.
But as I consider the malus case to be constructed wholecloth for reasons, whether they be a legitimate and wrongheaded attempt to solve or for a scum agenda, it's still intrinsically wrapped up with Fandorin in particular, and Brazil as well. So you can be catty if you think it's gonna get you somewhere, but we're not talking about separate issues here.
Brazil, I really think, is just being stubborn here, and it's got him digging a deep hole. I think the malus wagon arose to protect Fandorin.
vote: Fandorin[/vote]
If malus flips town, after you all lynch me just remember that Monkey spent the day going out of her way to defend him incessantly. Remember when kyan pointed out that Bae could have been going above and beyond defending townie Ketkat for the extra townie points? This feels a lot like that minus the gamerunner confirming said player's alignment to merit the defense.
hmm is this one of those "imma say something wrong to check if the person is actually reading me or just pretending" -things. kyaaa never cereal killer!
Morning y'all.
Huh, I remember that Faddy had claimed for quite a bit and a lot of questions were being thrown at him but no counter claim till then.
Huh, I remember that Faddy had claimed for quite a bit and a lot of questions were being thrown at him but no counter claim till then.