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HellofaMouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,227
His wording is basically like when someone says "Have a great day." in a way that leaves no uncertainty that they really wanted to say "Go fuck yourself."

we can NOT do this, especially not on the internet. what you are doing is trying to imagine a "subtext" that conforms to your opinion, but it isnt there, especially with all the evidence people have posted in this thread that suggest the opposite. (him praising the hell out of Price the day before for example)

as i said earlier, dont try to come up with a subtext that runs 100% counter to the ACTUAL TEXT.
 

Trejo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,830
I hope that ultimately retail workers get some form of protection against abusive customers. Poor language, people that piss you off - just another day in the life when you work retail. I don't think game dev should be considered special. The whole "customer is always right" phrase is completely wrong, and emboldens people to be awful. And if you stand up for yourself in the same manner that is shown in the OP, you'd get canned without a second thought.

We need to treat all workers better, not just game devs. The amount of shit people get is undeserved and customers are encouraged to enable abusive behavior to "get their way"

I agree with this 100%. This is not at all what transpired in this particular case, imo, but if this mess can shine a light on those issues then I suppose some form of good can come from it at the end of the day.
 

Trickster

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,533
I hope that ultimately retail workers get some form of protection against abusive customers. Poor language, people that piss you off - just another day in the life when you work retail. I don't think game dev should be considered special. The whole "customer is always right" phrase is completely wrong, and emboldens people to be awful. And if you stand up for yourself in the same manner that is shown in the OP, you'd get canned without a second thought.

We need to treat all workers better, not just game devs. The amount of shit people get is undeserved and customers are encouraged to enable abusive behavior to "get their way"

I think most people would have supported her in her response if it had actually been directed at an abusive person. Unfortunately she did it towards someone who was anything but
 

BeeKaine

Banned
Apr 21, 2018
736
I hope that ultimately retail workers get some form of protection against abusive customers.

I agree...

And if you stand up for yourself in the same manner that is shown in the OP

...but being given polite feedback is not worth "protecting", nor is a disproportionate response to said feedback.

Also, "we'll protect you retail workers from people who piss you off" would be a goddamn disaster.
 

Dick Justice

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,542
What is the functional purpose in constantly repeating that her actions were what "started it in the first place"? I'm repeating my point about ArenaNet because that's actually the point worth talking about. It's dead simple, I'm not sure the value of the "point" you're trying to push, however.
My first post was in response to people like Relaxed Muscle looking for any sort of reason to go after the streamer. Then someone replied to me saying Arenanet was at fault, and I then argued that the writer was ultimately at fault because her actions caused the mess. No action would've been required in the first place if she didn't act like a jackass towards a customer. I'm repeating myself over and over because you're being incredibly dense about this.

And regarding the bolded, I don't really give a shit what you think is exclusively worth talking about.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
I think most people would have supported her in her response if it had actually been directed at an abusive person. Unfortunately she did it towards someone who was anything but
yeah, the downside of this is that she lashed out as, and it's not a good comparison, but it's like, you have a day full of abusive customers and you lash out at the next customer, one who didn't do anything yet.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
I don't get how "she deserved it" folks gel with the other dev getting fired too. What he said was extremely vanilla. Whether or not she was too extreme, it was clear at the very least he was fired due to mob pressure.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,654
I work for a company with a significant social media presence and a couple of staff who at this point would be very well known for their media work, in certain circles at least.

If I slapped my company logo all over my Twitter feed and started talking shit to perfectly reasonable people I would be out the door before I could count to 5 and I would deserve it.
 

BeeKaine

Banned
Apr 21, 2018
736
I don't get how "she deserved it" folks gel with the other dev getting fired too. What he said was extremely vanilla. Whether or not she was too extreme, it was clear at the very least he was fired due to mob pressure.

I agree with this. At the least it's to save their own asses for firing a woman over an ostensibly feminist issue.

EDIT: A lot of the people here would have a better standing if they actually factored in Fries but mostly people only see Price being fired, and if they don't they don't know what Fries actually did, which was nothing.

I want to know the, uh, ratio of people who think Price was unjustly fired but Fries was.
 

Deleted member 15227

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,819
Not only did Jessica Price clearly act inappropriately to a fan who was trying to engage in a constructive and respectful discussion, she continues to deny responsibility for it and blames everyone but herself.

Jessica also continues to maintain that her firing is a result of misogyny which I find frankly quite insulting. If she had perhaps apologised instead of doubling down publically and internally, she might have still had a job or at least some credibility.

Also a reminder that thist wasn't the first time Price has acted inappropriately on social media.
 

yungronny

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
1,349
Him being fired was unnecessary in my opinion, but if you think this has anything to do with gender you're seriously reaching. I'm starting to get really concerned with how this forum handles social issues. Gender and racial equality in the industry is definitely a big issue, but injecting racism, sexism and misogyny into every incident that involves a minority does an absolute and utter disservice to those actually experiencing these issues on a daily basis.

Yes, Price was a victim of harassment after the fact, but that doesn't exonerate her from uncalled for comments to a fan that meant no harm in trying to engage in healthy discussion with an employee of a game they love. ArenaNet were not in the wrong for firing her and trying to pass this off as an attack on gender equality is just ridiculous.
Watch it, you're inching closer to a ban. And I am too, now!
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,354
Let's say some accuses you of being condescending and sexist for expressing your opinion, without any evidence to even support that. They also call you an asshat. You're fine with just letting that stand? He absolutely has the right to respond to that.

The best response from Deroir in this situation is none at all. It's not a physical space, if you want to leave any online conversation simply stop responding. Saying "I'm leaving this conversation" is a statement in and of itself. He was making a statement to people reading that thread, not a "polite withdrawal" as some like to characterize it.

I'm not saying he's a coded sexist, nor am I saying he was "more wrong" than Price. I'm also not saying he was on par in rudeness with Price. But he continued a hostile conversation that he didn't have to.
 

Skyroar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
58
User Banned (1 Week): Misrepresenting information, pushing a false narrative, vilifying journalism.
I'm not going to read the entire thread, but I followed the whole thing while it happened, and I want to say a few quick things:

1. Game writer Jessica Price posted multiple tweets talking about her narrative design philosophy (so yes, she was representing the company on twitter).
2. Community members offer feedback to that philosophy and dicuss politely with her. Price dismisses them with toxity (throwing the sexism card for no reason, insulting them, etc).
3. Another writer, Peter Fries, comes in to defend his partner's behaviour.
4. Reddit community gets angry at the unnecessary insults, fake claims of sexism and general toxic behavior from Price.
5. Anet fires both writers for attacking the community.
6. J. Price keeps believing that sexism is the reason why everything happened the way it did.
7. Video game journalists write pieces of news that twist the truth, presenting the harassers as the victims, and the community members as the harassers, carefully crafting a fictious narrative to their readers.
8. The community started to trash video game journalists for twisting the truth.
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,501
I work for a company with a significant social media presence and a couple of staff who at this point would be very well known for their media work at this point, in certain circles at least.

If I slapped my company logo all over my Twitter feed and started talking shit to perfectly reasonable people I would be out the door before I could count to 5 and I would deserve it.

Goes without saying but Era gonna Era and try and shoehorn a social issue in there unnecessarily.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,247
The way that many posters in this community has reacted to this event and the ensuing fallout is a huge black mark on any form of progressiveness and tolerance that the forum brands itself as. It tells me that there isn't much understanding of women's situations in the games industry and that there is a disconnect in understanding what happened in 2014 with Gamergate. It is basically nothing more than another gaming subreddit or forum that is hostile and excluding of women and their existence in gaming spaces.

On top of that, it seems posters here care less about workers and their rights than multimillion companies and their large power over their workers whom they can fire at will for basically any reason. This community is supposed to be supportive of the people who make the games that people love, yet this situation makes it clear that posters would rather believe in companies than workers.

It is disappointing and actually soul-crushing to read the responses.

Sorry, being progressive is not about accusing people of misogyny without cause simply because you disagree with a bit of critique they gave you on a publicly posted piece you decided to put out in the world.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
I don't get how "she deserved it" folks gel with the other dev getting fired too. What he said was extremely vanilla. Whether or not she was too extreme, it was clear at the very least he was fired due to mob pressure.
I don't think either of them should have been fired. Absolutely reprimanded and told that while you can disagree with customers when they're polite you can't call them asshats unprovoked. Fries really got the short end of the stick though. Most of GW2's community is really sad he got caught up in this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8x8lmg/peter_fries_thoughts_on_the_gw2_community/
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,439
How is not being upset that someone got fired for being rude to a customer a black mark on progressiveness. You typed alot but did not say anything as to why it wasn't justified. This is not even mentioning the comments she made about not caring about TB dying.

In cases of abusive customers yes this would be worth fighting against. But there was zero reason for this.
This. The way people try spin the response in this thread into something akin to the beginning of Gamergate is quite strange.
 

Casual

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,547
Not only did Jessica Price clearly act inappropriately to a fan who was trying to engage in a constructive and respectful discussion, she continues to deny responsibility for it and blames everyone but herself.

Jessica also continues to maintain that her firing is a result of misogyny which I find frankly quite insulting. If she had perhaps apologised instead of doubling down publically and internally, she might have still had a job or at least some credibility.
Yeah, the fact that she tried to frame her work being questioned/critiqued as some sort of female only issue is just...yikes. Embarrassing really.

"Today in being a female game dev"

How about

"Today in being part of a company that releases a product that lots of people consume".
 

Remember

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,484
Chicago, IL United States
As far as I know the only people(who represent a company) that normally get away with acting like an asshole to randoms on Twitter are rappers, high profile actors, and high paid athletes. I've seen cases of employees being reprimanded or fired for acting harsh or dumb on social media, from retail workers to tv anchors.

It's another reason why two things should be mandatory: social media rules and regulations per company and media training for all employees. Right now it's a dangerous wild west situation when it should not be.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
One thing that says a lot about a person is how they react when they feel they're being disrespected.

Most people don't react universally to disrespect; they have double standards that dictate their response. So for example, when a random person on the street is rude, you usually just brush it off, versus a family member who you might clap back and argue with. If a retail employee seems cold or rude, you might say something to a manager or you might not, depending on your mood or your personality. We all react to disrespect differently depending on the circumstances.

For many privileged people, they react extremely angrily to various marginalized groups because they subconsciously (or actively) view those groups as lesser people who are not only being disrespectful but also sabotaging the basic social order by criticizing and being rude to their betters. When you look at Trump, he doesn't usually get upset when Cryin' Chuck Schumer or Crazy Nancy or whatever he calls her say something he considers rude, because he ultimately just brushes it off, it's just "political banter." He'll complain and then get over it within 24 hours. But black women like Maxine Waters, they reaaaaaaaally get under his skin. There's a long documented history of Trump totally losing his shit any time a black person says something he doesn't like. It's transparently obvious that he views them as lesser people and that they should know their place.

Trump is an extreme example, but many privileged people do some version of this. They don't accept marginalized people so much as they tolerate our presence. They have generously agreed to let us into their white, male spaces and work alongside them as equals, but that tolerance can be revoked any time they see fit, and occasionally they like to remind us of that fact. This usually manifests as the idea that we must ask their permission before engaging in any sort of sociopolitical action. Women complaining about sexism are tolerated only as long as men agree that it is a true example of sexism. Black people can protest police brutality only if white people agree with it. We must make sure we ask permission from our superiors to ensure they agree with us, and if they don't, they will swiftly smack us down and turn tail, supporting those who would seek to oppress us. "If only you'd been nicer to me, I wouldn't have voted for Trump" is the rallying call of hundreds of thousands of white men who voted for Obama but swapped to Trump in 2016. "If only you'd shown the proper respect and deference to your betters, I wouldn't have to take this extreme step."

Everyone has a little box around them and if they step outside the box, they get slapped down. But that box is A LOT smaller for women (and other marginalized groups) than it is for white men. We must constantly walk on eggshells lest our betters decide that we have stepped out of bounds and immediately revoke the tolerance they have so generously offered us. So a woman gets annoyed with a man on Twitter. She feels disrespected and tells him to stop talking to her. She has committed an Offense, one that cannot be tolerated. We can dress it up, and convince ourselves it was simply a customer service matter. This important, valued employee is being terminated immediately without recourse because she called a guy an "asshat" on Twitter. You all brush our hands off and say "Well, them's the breaks, I guess" and move on. Just like you do whenever there's an aggression against anyone marginalized. There's always an excuse. There's always an explanation. The excuses aren't meant to placate the marginalized, they're meant to placate the privileged who might otherwise feel bad. "Well, I'd be really concerned about this, except it turns out it was justified, so...whatever. Back to my video games!"

Bigots need useful idiots to serve as their sword and shield in their war against the marginalized. It's easy to be a useful idiot. All you have to do is buy the company line, say a few things about tone and civility, and then go back to your video games. It's easier that way. Don't think too hard about it. Just play your games.
 

HellofaMouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,227
I don't get how "she deserved it" folks gel with the other dev getting fired too. What he said was extremely vanilla. Whether or not she was too extreme, it was clear at the very least he was fired due to mob pressure.

thats not clear at all. we have close to no information about what went down in Anet internally or what the situation was in the company prior to this incident. all we know is that there WAS a discussion with the employees.

thats also the problem with the arguements of a lot of media outlets, that mostly seem to claim that the firings were a response to the internet mob.

but the fact of the matter is that we have absolutely NO information to make that conclusion.

if people have some inside information, they should speak up, and if not, they should stop making assumptions. you know, people that make a living on reporting this kind of stuff, "professionals".
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 15326

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,219
I don't think either of them should have been fired. Absolutely reprimanded and told that while you can disagree with customers when they're polite you can't call them asshats unprovoked. Fries really got the short end of the stick though. Most of GW2's community is really sad he got caught up in this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8x8lmg/peter_fries_thoughts_on_the_gw2_community/

Yeah, he got screwed and barely gets mentioned.
 

Miracle Ache

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,215
ArenaNet must've known how aggressive Jessica Price can be on Twitter when they hired her so the way they handled this is really stupid.

With that said, Price got herself fired through her own actions. Giving credit to gamergate is what's emboldening them, not the firing itself. We can acknowledge that both Price's shittiness and gamergate's harassment of women are awful while also acknowledging that one is far worse than the other. People really need to stop seeing this shit in black and white if we want to have any chance of stopping such toxicity.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,078
UK
Spoiler: There are plenty, PLENTY, of male industry members that are bigger assholes that aren't without a job at the moment.

Yeah but not every company has the same policies, I don't think in this specific case she was fired because of her gender. The guy got fired too

For all we know any employee from that company would get fired for being rude to a customer

I have no problem with her being fired for what she did, but at the same time if she was disaplined and made to apologise I'd have thought that was enough as well, but I don't set the company policy at that company
 

BigJeffery

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,338
I don't get how "she deserved it" folks gel with the other dev getting fired too. What he said was extremely vanilla. Whether or not she was too extreme, it was clear at the very least he was fired due to mob pressure.

This is the logical conclusion of years of this kind of behavior being normalized, just the conversation has shifted and now it's people on the other side losing their jobs for bad posts.

The exact same thing happened with comedy. Remember that SNL writer that lost their job for making jokes about Trump's kid?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
The best response from Deroir in this situation is none at all. It's not a physical space, if you want to leave any online conversation simply stop responding. Saying "I'm leaving this conversation" is a statement in and of itself. He was making a statement to people reading that thread, not a "polite withdrawal" as some like to characterize it.

I'm not saying he's a coded sexist, nor am I saying he was "more wrong" than Price. I'm also not saying he was on par in rudeness with Price. But he continued a hostile conversation that he didn't have to.
Getting hung up on his response to being called an asshat is so ridiculous. Like who cares whether he responded with "I didn't realize this was the wrong forum. Sorry" or not responding at all. It's irrelevant. Like you're so hung up on this one point.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,889
Finland
I hope that ultimately retail workers get some form of protection against abusive customers. Poor language, people that piss you off - just another day in the life when you work retail. I don't think game dev should be considered special. The whole "customer is always right" phrase is completely wrong, and emboldens people to be awful. And if you stand up for yourself in the same manner that is shown in the OP, you'd get canned without a second thought.

We need to treat all workers better, not just game devs. The amount of shit people get is undeserved and customers are encouraged to enable abusive behavior to "get their way"
This I absolute agree 100% with. I wish we would see more bans here too when people aren't acting civil and thoughtful when "criticizing" games and devs. Seeing bans for the "lazy dev" rhetoric is nice, but mods are sleeping bit on that too.

But in this case, Deroir wasn't abusive or using poor language. While I personally think the two people shouldn't have been fired, but the issue handled in another way (apology from her and raising discussion and awareness of how women in gaming are often treated, which explains her harsh reaction). As how things are commonly handled, firing doesn't seem outrageous to me. Not how I wish it went, but understandable in context. And it fucking sucks that actual asshats are getting to celebrate this as a victory to them, as this shouldn't be about them. Calling out asshats is fine, but lumping Deroir among those seemed unnecessary and misguided.

Edit: The part where I mention raising discussion and awareness isn't ment as a task to Price, but that ArenaNet should have done it too. Issued statement where they commented on the issue and explained why they didn't think her behaviour warranted a firing.
 
Last edited:

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
I agree with this. At the least it's to save their own asses for firing a woman over an ostensibly feminist issue.

EDIT: A lot of the people here would have a better standing if they actually factored in Fries but mostly people only see Price being fired, and if they don't they don't know what Fries actually did, which was nothing.

I want to know the, uh, ratio of people who think Price was unjustly fired but Fries was.

I may have missed it in the flurry of articles written since, but has Fries commented publicly on his firing?
 

Vicious17

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,293
So, maybe Im an idiot, but can someone explain what the "controversy" is here?

Way I see it, there are 2 publicly available instances of her being completely unprofessional while being directly linked to the company she works at.

Is that not grounds for termination?
 

Socivol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,700
I can't believe people are defending her behavior. I work in customer success for a tech company and I can say with 100% certainty I would have bene fired to speaking like that to a user. It was completely uncalled for. If she wanted her Twitter to be her views separate from the company, why did she have her position and company info in the bio? Why didn't she make the account private? The nature of public accounts on Twitter is anyone can see it and anyone can reply to it. My Twitter account has no identifiable information of my company because I don't want it associated with the company in any way. For her to try to make it a gender issue when there wasn't one present is really manipulative as well.

I'm the first guy to stand up for women especially women in the tech space because I have seen first hand the struggles they have. Nothing from the initial exchange was gendered at all, she made it a gender issue not the guy that originally responded to her. Mansplaining and discussing a perspective or not mutually exclusive.
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,501
Watch it, you're inching closer to a ban. And I am too, now!

Yeah, I probably am. It's just infuriating because these issues need to be discussed properly otherwise there'll be no progress. You can't immediately assume that this YouTuber was being sexist because he dared to question a female employee. The gamergaters that latched onto this are the problem. Not the streamer. That is my point of contention.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,654
One thing that says a lot about a person is how they react when they feel they're being disrespected.

Most people don't react universally to disrespect; they have double standards that dictate their response. So for example, when a random person on the street is rude, you usually just brush it off, versus a family member who you might clap back and argue with. If a retail employee seems cold or rude, you might say something to a manager or you might not, depending on your mood or your personality. We all react to disrespect differently depending on the circumstances.

For many privileged people, they react extremely angrily to various marginalized groups because they subconsciously (or actively) view those groups as lesser people who are not only being disrespectful but also sabotaging the basic social order by criticizing and being rude to their betters. When you look at Trump, he doesn't usually get upset when Cryin' Chuck Schumer or Crazy Nancy or whatever he calls her say something he considers rude, because he ultimately just brushes it off, it's just "political banter." He'll complain and then get over it within 24 hours. But black women like Maxine Waters, they reaaaaaaaally get under his skin. There's a long documented history of Trump totally losing his shit any time a black person says something he doesn't like. It's transparently obvious that he views them as lesser people and that they should know their place.

Trump is an extreme example, but many privileged people do some version of this. They don't accept marginalized people so much as they tolerate our presence. They have generously agreed to let us into their white, male spaces and work alongside them as equals, but that tolerance can be revoked any time they see fit, and occasionally they like to remind us of that fact. This usually manifests as the idea that we must ask their permission before engaging in any sort of sociopolitical action. Women complaining about sexism are tolerated only as long as men agree that it is a true example of sexism. Black people can protest police brutality only if white people agree with it. We must make sure we ask permission from our superiors to ensure they agree with us, and if they don't, they will swiftly smack us down and turn tail, supporting those who would seek to oppress us. "If only you'd been nicer to me, I wouldn't have voted for Trump" is the rallying call of hundreds of thousands of white men who voted for Obama but swapped to Trump in 2016. "If only you'd shown the proper respect and deference to your betters, I wouldn't have to take this extreme step."

Everyone has a little box around them and if they step outside the box, they get slapped down. But that box is A LOT smaller for women (and other marginalized groups) than it is for white men. We must constantly walk on eggshells lest our betters decide that we have stepped out of bounds and immediately revoke the tolerance they have so generously offered us. So a woman gets annoyed with a man on Twitter. She feels disrespected and tells him to stop talking to her. She has committed an Offense, one that cannot be tolerated. We can dress it up, and convince ourselves it was simply a customer service matter. This important, valued employee is being terminated immediately without recourse because she called a guy an "asshat" on Twitter. You all brush our hands off and say "Well, them's the breaks, I guess" and move on. Just like you do whenever there's an aggression against anyone marginalized. There's always an excuse. There's always an explanation. The excuses aren't meant to placate the marginalized, they're meant to placate the privileged who might otherwise feel bad. "Well, I'd be really concerned about this, except it turns out it was justified, so...whatever. Back to my video games!"

Bigots need useful idiots to serve as their sword and shield in their war against the marginalized. It's easy to be a useful idiot. All you have to do is buy the company line, say a few things about tone and civility, and then go back to your video games. It's easier that way. Don't think too hard about it. Just play your games.

How do you explain her male colleague being fired then?
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
I think he deleted it but it was apparently professional.

I've seen the tweet, it wasn't as harsh as Price, but I wouldn't say it was professional and miscategorized the exchange, labeling it disrespectful and nonsense.

However, taken on it's own I personally wouldn't have fired Fries over his exchange. I can't comment on what may have happened internally.
 

JudgmentJay

Member
Nov 14, 2017
5,243
Texas
So, maybe Im an idiot, but can someone explain what the "controversy" is here?

Way I see it, there are 2 publicly available instances of her being completely unprofessional while being directly linked to the company she works at.

Is that not grounds for termination?

It is. Well... at least grounds for reprimanding. Termination might have been a bit extreme. There's just some really impressive mental gymnastics going on in this thread as people try to turn it into something it's not. BDS's post on this page is a good example.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
I'm not going to read the entire thread, but I followed the whole thing while it happened, and I want to say a few quick things:

1. Game writer Jessica Price posted multiple tweets talking about her narrative design philosophy (so yes, she was representing the company on twitter).
2. Community members offer feedback to that philosophy and dicuss politely with her. Price dismisses them with toxity (throwing the sexism card for no reason, insulting them, etc).
3. Another writer, Peter Fries, comes in to defend his partner's behaviour.
4. Reddit community gets angry at the unnecessary insults, fake claims of sexism and general toxic behavior from Price.
5. Anet fires both writers for attacking the community.
6. J. Price keeps believing that sexism is the reason why everything happened the way it did.
7. Video game journalists write pieces of news that twist the truth, presenting the harassers as the victims, and the community members as the harassers, carefully crafting a fictious narrative to their readers.
8. The community started to trash video game journalists for twisting the truth.

Bark bark bark bark bark bark bark bark bark

How do you explain her male colleague being fired then?

It seems just about everyone agrees he didn't deserve to be fired, so I'd guess they were so desperate to appease the mob that they kicked Fries to the curb too without realizing they didn't have to. Alternatively, he might have continued to defend her during a disciplinary meeting or demanded they fire him too (he seems weirdly nonchalant about the whole thing on Twitter). Unlike Price, we don't really have any information about why he was fired or what exactly transpired with him.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,893
ArenaNet must've known how aggressive Jessica Price can be on Twitter when they hired her so the way they handled this is really stupid.

With that said, Price got herself fired through her own actions. Giving credit to gamergate is what's emboldening them, not the firing itself. We can acknowledge that both Price's shittiness and gamergate's harassment of women are awful while also acknowledging that one is far worse than the other. People really need to stop seeing this shit in black and white if we want to have any chance of stopping such toxicity.

I agree with this. It bothers me that some people think that progressivism is about toeing the line when it should be about critical thought and fair treatment. We can all absolutely condemn the vitriolic bullshit that was eventually thrown her way. We can also all condemn the people celebrating her firing like it is some great thing. But I think we should all be honest enough with ourselves to be able to condemn her actions as well.

I also don't think she should have been fired, for the record. I just think this situation is way more nuanced than some people are portraying it as.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
For all we know, Arenanet may have had a policy that you don't get into shit on social media, zero tolerance. I don't know. Does anyone else?
 

Fanta

Member
May 27, 2018
508
I can't help but feel weird about all this.

You have someone as prominent as Kamiya insulting everyone left and right on Twitter and people celebrate his tweets for 'owning' people, yet for the western market, the reaction gaming communities have towards western game company employees are a lot more toxic, and you have those under 'GG' who will latch onto anything to 'own the libs' so to say.

I guess I just feel weird about it because the expectations gaming communities have of employees are out of wack and can change drastically depending on the specific developer. It's okay when one employee from one company does it, but the end of the world if another employee from another company does the same thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
Bark bark bark bark bark bark bark bark bark



It seems just about everyone agrees he didn't deserve to be fired, so I'd guess they were so desperate to appease the mob that they kicked Fries to the curb too without realizing they didn't have to. Alternatively, he might have continued to defend her during a disciplinary meeting or demanded they fire him too (he seems weirdly nonchalant about the whole thing on Twitter). Unlike Price, we don't really have any information about why he was fired or what exactly transpired with him.
Bark bark bark?
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Eh, well. He didn't call him an asshat at least?

If I HAD to speculate as to why he was fired, I'd say there was some kind of internal discussion between him and a higher up that resulted in his being let go. Otherwise ArenaNET would be firing any dev over every little subtweet (it didn't even mention Deroir by name, just referenced the exchange).

The only other option is that they fired him based on some mob pressure which I've seen no evidence of.
 

Deleted member 15326

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,219
I can't help but feel weird about all this.

You have someone as prominent as Kamiya insulting everyone left and right on Twitter and people celebrate his tweets for 'owning' people, yet for the western market, the reaction gaming communities have towards western game company employees are a lot more toxic, and you have those under 'GG' who will latch onto anything to 'own the libs' so to say.

I guess I just feel weird about it because the expectations gaming communities have of employees are out of wack and can change drastically depending on the specific developer. It's okay when one employee from one company does it, but the end of the world if another employee from another company does the same thing.

Kamiya works for Kamiya and there are plenty of people who find him annoying

People gotta drop that comparison