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The controversial ArenaNet firings of Guild Wars 2 writers (READ OP)
- Thread starter hydrophilic attack
- Start date
I'm not defending her because she is on my side. That's a reduction. I'm saying she is her own person entitled to speak on behalf of her self and that her behaviour doesn't color feminism. She isn't a feminism representative 24/7 where she must bare the cross at all times. Sometimes people just wanna be their own person and when you reduce the behaviour to, is this the way to show feminism all you are doing is putting ownership of a huge diverse and complex issue on one person. It's amoung a million other things, just plainly unfair.
She was rude and abrasive sure. Apart from that I don't get where you are going with this. GG isn't an entity created from women being rude. It's an entity created by
1) Dudes
2) Gaming culture dominated by dudes
3) Misogyny from dudes
Are you getting why blaming her is missing the point?
Doesn't really have anything to do with the benign comment she received and responded harshly too. Unless you're saying her frustration with other people being shitty to her is an excuse for her to be shitty to someone who's done nothing to her. It's like if you had a bad day at work, and go home and take it out on your family or friends as if it's their fault.
Nazism is an abhorrent ideology and the whole comparisson to a mild twitter incident is not appropiate. Same with racism.
But as I said: Yes, I have reservations about how companies can pry outside of our working enviroment to bind us with more asinine restrictions at the cost of our own working rights. Work related stress can only gets worse when you have your own free time analyzed outside of your working capabilities.
More like at this stage the hate brigade is going to follow her no matter what which makes getting a new job extremely harder. The hate brigade followed her from her previous employer to gw2. The point being talking is the only thing she can do.
Anyone with a brain knows Peter Fries termination was idiotic, he has nothing to say and if he so choose probably has a better case to get some money for wrongful termination.
It wasn't "asshat" that hurts feminism, it was claiming that Deroir's reply was somehow related to her gender that hurts feminism.
So the fact that ArenaNet chose to make her firing extremely public and announce it to said mob is justified?
MY god , this thread..It has snowballed into something so ugly.
I tried to read 16 pages , but i gave up really. SO i just went to read the MOD edits to see the new situation.
If she was harrassed before , why didn't she deal with the situation better ? When the Ceo of arena.net states that if she felt harrassed , all she had to do was to contact her team.
But instead , she herself made it a bigger issue.
And the dialog here is still on the critique of arena.net when they would have done something if she was under attack. Instead she went on the attack and met a serious backlash.
Like i've read so many things. How does this escuse this extremely poor handling of the situation after a follow-up to an AMA ?
Why do the internet rules of social interraction that exist for every company i know don't work in this case ??
I've worked in a dev team ( network software ), the 2/5 of the team were female. Clear rules about social media exist in so many companies.. like what is happenning in this thread.
I tried to read 16 pages , but i gave up really. SO i just went to read the MOD edits to see the new situation.
If she was harrassed before , why didn't she deal with the situation better ? When the Ceo of arena.net states that if she felt harrassed , all she had to do was to contact her team.
But instead , she herself made it a bigger issue.
And the dialog here is still on the critique of arena.net when they would have done something if she was under attack. Instead she went on the attack and met a serious backlash.
Like i've read so many things. How does this escuse this extremely poor handling of the situation after a follow-up to an AMA ?
Why do the internet rules of social interraction that exist for every company i know don't work in this case ??
I've worked in a dev team ( network software ), the 2/5 of the team were female. Clear rules about social media exist in so many companies.. like what is happenning in this thread.
You're not being cute here, by the way. People see right through you. An internet hate mob gathered for the sole purpose of trying to get women fired from their positions (see: Video games, movies, comics) has been going after her and jumped at the first chance they got. They swarmed and put pressure on the company. They folded because they're cowards. They labeled her as someone who attacked the community and treated her like an enemy.
Something Jeff Gertstmann said on the Bombcast yesterday, just imagine how unstable GW2 must be if this is how easily they are willing to bend for rabid fans, even the illusion of rabid fans.
I don't get this line of thought. Movie critics don't make movies, but they write reviews for films even though they are not directors or producers.
That is not what I said. The powerful always demand politeness from the oppressed, but no one got their rights by asking politely for them.
She didn't leave them a whole lot of choice.
Generally that's going to be the response. An employee of your company treats a customer like shit, the company makes a statement making it clear that they don't condone that behaviour and they've taken action representative of that.
Victim blaming
Victim blaming is what is happening in this thread.
it makes no sense to me. either people are being purposefully disingenuous or have never held a position at a company with any social media expectations... but even people in retail get fired for being rude to customers publicly on social media ffs
this is EXACTLY how companies handle firing employees in regards to largely public and media heavy instances. be it starbucks, target, anyone. what planet do you live on? did i miss the drug cookies at the door?
Why didn't they have a lot of choice? Could it be that they were at the mercy of a hate mob and folded instead of stand by their employee?
How are we still trying to vilify Deroir as condescending or in anyway at fault for what followed?
Seriously? Out of everything surrounding this, the effigial destruction of his character is somehow the most shocking in a shit show where disgusting needs are once again mob harassing a woman?
The ahistorical nonsense that's surrounding the original exchange in order to fit a pre-conceived narrative is transparent as fuck.
Seriously? Out of everything surrounding this, the effigial destruction of his character is somehow the most shocking in a shit show where disgusting needs are once again mob harassing a woman?
The ahistorical nonsense that's surrounding the original exchange in order to fit a pre-conceived narrative is transparent as fuck.
I am reading the tweets and in no way is he TELLING her how to do her job. He disagrees "slightly" then proceeds to give his own opinion, referring to what he believes is a valid solution, stating that "perhaps" the actions he proposes would improve things, but makes sure to not come across like he explain her her job by ending it with "nonetheless, I appropriates the insightful thread!"
Maybe its because English isn't my primary language but I fail to read at any point where he tells her how to do her job. Could his sentences be better constructed, sure, but I also doubt he was expected to be outed as being condescending and having to be met with open hostility.
Feminism is only good so long as it doesn't make any men uncomfortable.
You call it a mild twitter incident, I call it insulting a respected member of the community for a very small perceived slight.
But what matters is she did so while representing her company on social media. And to a ton of companies out there, her behavior would be immediate grounds for dismissal.
Entirely different thread of discussion my dude. I agree with you but some of the shit people are saying om this thread is like, you have to live in another country if you think this cause that's exactly how the fuck things work in the US. You don't even have to have social media, you get caught doing some shit and if it's a big enough deal your work will fire you.
Or because she was rude to a customer in a completely public forum.
"Bad thing happens over here so therefore it's ok for bad thing to happen over there"
Also, it's been stated that Arenanet absolutely did not have any kind of social media policy or direction. Please don't try to push a false narrative. There's was no assumption that the company was going to help her in the face of harassment. She was very clearly on her own.
Responding politely and with deference to a public twitter thread is in no way doing something wrong for fucks sake
What happened after is terrible, but this dude had nothing to do with it keep his names out your damn mouth
Oh, Kamiya again. There's a bunch of other posts already going over the complete difference of their positions within their companies. Doubt I could sum it up any better than this already have.
You can't put nazism and this at the same scale at all...
What matters is not that "is what tons of companies out there does" (which, in this case it wasn't even specified to her), what matters is that is fucking wrong specially in this case and even more in the Fries case.
Politeness don't change the significance of what's inside of it. If an opinion is hurtful, inconsiderate or in this case, condescending and patrionizing, it dosn't fucking matter it was done politely. It was fucking condescending and patrionizing.
And dosn't matter there was no malicious intent.
Why would they stand by an employee who goes out of their way to attack their customers? Makes no sense.
his comments were condescending. it's not a malicious takedown of his very person to say so, when seen in context and given literally any amount of empathy they just straight up were. i know little about the guy so i'm not gonna ascribe much to his character but what he said was kinda fucking insulting no matter how politely it was dressed up
Hint: No one is. The fact that "polite nice boy" is accidentally a product of a society that values men more than women is really not the biggest issue here. What kicked this off is emblematic of how female devs are treated. Believe me when I say that some mild pushback on Price's part is not an attack on Deroir and instead what the exchange represents.
uhh... do you wanna date this guy or something?
No, the issue is that people are trying to twist Deroir's tweet and character into something else entirely. There was nothing hostile about what he said. He's a content creator for the game, and furthermore a fan that simply wanted to respond to a public post on the game's writing. If Price really believed she was being harassed by him she could have gone to Arenanet and probably get Deroir removed from the partner program. Instead she blew up on him for nothing. Being followed by a hate mob doesn't justify that behavior.
No they weren't full fucking stop, we cannot just change what the word condescension means in order to make ourselves feel better about this
That is exactly telling her how to do her job. He proposes a very obvious solution. A solution that is so obvious that you have to assume has been tried, thought of, talked about unless you think they're stupid (even unconsciously!) (maybe because they're a woman?)
The fact that he was polite about it does not change anything.
Of course Nazism isn't even fucking close to being the same. But both can be described as "Looking bad while representing your company on a public social media account."
And I guess we'll just have to disagree with companies being able to fire you for that. I think companies get away with way too much , but being able to fire someone for causing PR fallout due to representing your company in a bad way is not one of them.
I'm sorry I cannot see how his comments were condescending unless any layman criticism is automatically condescending. How should he have done it differently? What should he have said instead to communicate what he wanted to communicate?
Oh now I gotta be polite lol sorry I didn't wanna come off as condescending
They were at the mercy of a bad CEO. With all else being the same, better labor protection and a thoughtful CEO wouldn't have "folded", and this another failed attempt.
Instead of handling it like a professional company and dealing with your shit internally, they decided to make it point to throw these employees under the bus - publicly, going as far as treating them like they attacked the community as a whole (including the other guy who just defending a co-worker). That is completely out of line. They created a controversy where they wasn't. They handled it in the worst way possible.
Well, bring it up to platinum then. For one example of Kamiya being shown here, there are plenty more examples of people being fired because they were rude or unbecoming in Social Media.
Not that I necessarily agree that firing is the appropriate solution--I would personally leave it to just a reprimand--but it's not like there are no examples of people being fired due to misbehavior in social media, plenty of them, in fact.
Wait , wait , don't go too far with me.
Few post above , the claim is that she was harrassed and still was harrassed by GG activist.
This give me a new insight to her behavior.
So i ask , ok if this harrassement was going on , but she still was active on social media after this time. Then she should have been able to do something about it.
That's my logical assumption.
But instead she made a bigger mess.
This go back to the end of my post , clear rules for social media exist and are in place in many companies for protection of the employes, so that the company can act switfly to deal with harrassement and mob campaigns.
I just don't get it.
Either those rules are no in place , or something didn't work in this case.
That's all i'm saying here.
If you think none of this hurts feminism, then you need to think about what feminism is about to you.
To me feminism is about equality, and to me equality means equal treatment.
How are you supposed to convince people that women are to be treated equally to men when you argue that women can respond differently to very same criticism that men would receive just because they are women? Who are you going to convince with your argument? Surely not people who already think that women should be treated differently.
What a PR fallout? The GG army on reddit/twitter asking for her head on a plate? C'mon....
Is not like it had gaming press coverage. Probably the fact of firing both for this pitiful incident is causing even a bigger PR fallout....
Yeah, we'll just have to agree on disagree.
When did I say I was? I just recognize the difference. Games that Kamiya makes sell solely because his name is attached to them. He's brings more value to a company then his asshole-ish tweets are going to take away.