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Hearthstone |OT1| New Era, Same Meta
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
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It's funny people still haven't learned that huge taunts with great effects are awesome, especially when you can cheat them out early/bring them back.
Cards only for arena, all classes have 1 of those crazy cards.
The clear downside to that card is that it leaves 10 overload, so next turn they can't do anything at all.
Indeed, but it's 0 mana so they wiped by full board and slammed minions down. That's some fucking bad card design.
That Elise early design about getting a quest in hindsight sounds beyond awful.
https://www.pcgamer.com/ben-brode-o..._source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw
https://www.pcgamer.com/ben-brode-o..._source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw
Seems like a fun way to get quests played. Sure it would be an awful card but it seems like it would have been fun for budgets and trash ranks.
It seems impossible to complete the quest though. Let's say Elise gives me either of those quests above. Now I have to wait to get those cards in my hand and play them before I can complete the quest. And you're shoving all these worthless cards into your deck.
For the discard quest you need to draw six of those cards and play them all. It's hard enough completing the discard quest before you get killed with a deck completely built around discard.
For the discard quest you need to draw six of those cards and play them all. It's hard enough completing the discard quest before you get killed with a deck completely built around discard.
Are you sure you're not talking about something else? I've never seen that in that deck ever.
I did see Oakheart was kinda successful in a super greedy ramp druid deck with dragons.
Most people gave Voidlord a 3 or 4, which is probably about right if you don't take the ways to cheat it out into consideration.
Nah definitely oakheart
It can summon a voidlord, ren, lackey, tar creeper...basically fill youre board with strong cards
I think panda is right. People tested the card out in warlock early on but that is about it.
I think I'm going to give up on grinding to legend. It's making me hate the game and making me get very upset.
Been playing for the past 3 hours non stop and I'm exactly where I was when I started. 3 stars into rank 2.
Been playing for the past 3 hours non stop and I'm exactly where I was when I started. 3 stars into rank 2.
I kept it in my deck
Its good enough. Getting clinch defenses is A++
I've gone back and forth from 5 to 2 a bunch of times. It's really frustrating. You basically need a series of flawless curves and clutch draws to get a win streak going to get consistent stars. Perfect playmaking can only take you so far. It just made me more impressed with players who can make legend early on every month.
Exactly. From from opening hand and the first card my opponent plays I know whether I'm going to win or lose.
And it's just so mind numbing going up the same decks over and over. Like you said I'm very impressed with anyone who makes it to legend early in the month or in prior months. It's a pain in the ass now and this is the easiest it's ever been.
At the end of the day all I'm doing it for is a card back I'll never use anyway. My pandaria/rainbow ones are much better.
Went back to arena and I'm loving the game again. It's much more fun not knowing what to expect from your opponents.
Haha same. All I want is the card back. If I were to hit it early in the month, I would maybe try to get a high legend rank but that's about it. Once I get it, I plan to do nothing but play Arena and meme decks at rank 5.
Honestly though, it's usually the weird non meta decks that always give me the most problems since I have no idea what they're putting out or what to prepare for. I played a Paladin yesterday with 3 duskbreakers held in my hand the whole game only to have him keep putting out low taunt minions and an eventual Lich King. It was so weird. And he destroyed me since I was just waiting to combo him haha.
Voidlord is a borderline card without the ability to cheat it out. If you actually had to pay 9 mana to use it, you'd barely see it on the ladder.
Yup those are the ones that throw me off. Was playing against a Murloc Paladin and was pretty sure I had him, until out of nowhere he played the paladin legendary weapon.
This is kinda depressing info for a new player.
EDIT: Though I guess that's the same for most CCGs at a high level.
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This is a particularly dreadful meta (to me) because the three strongest decks are all weak to totally different things, and only a few classes really have the tools. In a couple weeks, this will hopefully change.
But it's not true. Can't take everything you read at face value. I've hit legend multiple times and I've never picked up this magical skill to know when I am going to win or lose from the opening hand + first card my opponent plays alone.
That's now how it works in HS. You only got 6 to 8 looks w/ the opener these, these simply can't decide the game.
You don't really see decks on ladder w/ unwinnable matchups against popular archetypes.
There's so many cards in standard rn that any top archetype has game against the others.
That's why you see quest rogue a lot in competitive but basically never on ladder. It has almost only lopsided matchups in b9th directions.
You don't really see decks on ladder w/ unwinnable matchups against popular archetypes.
There's so many cards in standard rn that any top archetype has game against the others.
That's why you see quest rogue a lot in competitive but basically never on ladder. It has almost only lopsided matchups in b9th directions.
I was also thinking about the current meta in Overwatch, Dive, and how I still play that game and enjoy watching OWL.
The only CCGs that this hasn't been the case for in my experience are Infinity Wars and Duelyst. Infinity Wars is completely dead, unfortunately - the company just didn't have its shit together (but I recommend downloading the game for free to experience a masterpiece in card game mechanics - just don't spend any money! haha). Duelyst is still somehow chugging along even though most of the userbase abandoned it, including me:
http://steamcharts.com/app/291410
But last week I was on Twitter and saw some of the new cards on my feed, and it's really tempting to get back into the game because these effects sound so fun:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY6NeaQWkAAkx0I.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYrmr0aXkAIDCLG.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXtI3QvV4AA4slX.png
Love the pixel art, but without context, the text is meaningless. I'll check out the game, though. Thanks! :-)
Obviously I was exaggerating a bit, but since I'm playing Murloc pally, having a weak opening hand really hurts. If I don't do a ton of damage right out the gate, my odds are winning are extremely low.
With control decks you can stall until you get the cards you need, but with aggro you need to start doing damage immediately.
And just because I've been playing so much, right off the bat I can guess what deck my opponent is playing (secret mage, spiteful priest, secret hunter, murloc paladin, cubelock) and know whether I have the advantage or disadvantage in the matchup.
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Hearthstone used to involve games where you could "out value" your opponents, and while that felt good to me personally, I think it was bad for the game's pacing. People want win conditions and deciding turns - they want action, not slow suffering as a Priest pelts you for a few damage and kills every card you play. The shift to control win conditions started with N'Zoth, and the game has been going in the direction of massive swing turns since then. Cubelock now often gets an insurmountable swing turn on turn 5, and aggro players are just going through the motion at this point. This is why people talk about it in an RPS sense. Hearthstone has been moving toward big swings, but only for some classes, and some classes get bigger swings than others. I think it's a large part of why the game's balance is struggling right now - the design approach is all over the place.
Once you accelerate swing turn opportunities, though, you can't regress. Two expansions ago we got a huge swing card in Ultimate Infestation, and it was so incredible that the ladder was >50% Jade Druid at one point. Any other deck just could not keep up because Ultimate Infestation was such a massive swing.
Instead of dialing that back, though, the last expansion added Call to Arms and the Cubelock package. Call to Arms is a crazy card, but aggro needs those kinds of crazy cards to keep up with the swing potential of Cubelock. Cubelock swings so hard that Jade Druid isn't even complained about, and I think it has been months since someone said Ultimate Infestation needs a nerf. The power creep is so massive that one of the most complained about cards in the game isn't worth mentioning.
Blizzard wants to sell packs, so the next expansion will continue to go in this direction. Massive swings for every deck, every turn. The problem with this design direction is that Hearthstone is a highly uninteractive game - you can't affect anything your opponent does, and you can only make isolated decisions on your turn. So when the game swings, you kind of feel bad because in many cases you couldn't do anything to prevent that swing. There are answer cards, but you just hope you draw them, and even if you do draw them the swings can be so huge that it doesn't matter, like a Lackey that pulls a Doomguard which hits face into a cube and pact that gives you two more Doomguards for 10 more face damage, and now you just lost the game because a 2/2 died. And maybe everything you did up to that point was perfect and it just doesn't matter. Not to mention the potential for Gul'dan to bring those 3 Doomguards back for another 15 face damage. I would even say that kind of experience is common in this game.
In contrast, Duelyst has been designed for every single turn to be a potential massive swing, and the swing potential grows each turn even when you are far behind, which makes the game kind of a wild and intense experience. The board means that you can protect your minions from the opposing player, too, so you can make decisions to limit the swing options available to your opponent. I ended up quitting Duelyst because the development team became increasingly greedy (lowering gold rewards through multiple avenues) and their balance approach was as bad as Hearthstone's (which I still generally dislike, but it's better now than ever before) despite promising to be better on this front.
Steam has an enormous number of F2P card games, and if you like card games I recommend trying them all. Even the bad ones like Solforge are innovative and fun to experience. :)
Isn't the obvious answer "many decks of similar power levels in a meta where player decisions decide match outcomes"?
Would you prefer 1 or 2 decks just the best and everything else be competitively unviable? What is the alternative?
As much as I am enjoying my return to HS, I'm definitley done dropping money into it and will be eagerly checking out Artifact this year.
Anyone else interested? Coming from a life of MtG, HS always felt super simple so to see Richard Garfield try his hand at a true "collectable" digital card game backed by a huge company with a history of storefronts bodes very well.
Anyone else interested? Coming from a life of MtG, HS always felt super simple so to see Richard Garfield try his hand at a true "collectable" digital card game backed by a huge company with a history of storefronts bodes very well.
Nice explanation of the meta, thanks! And I have run into Ultimate Infestation in Casual... not fun.
I need to recover my Steam account, as I am on a serious card game kick.
Yes, I will definitely check out Artifact if the price is right. Though, I am not that hot on some of the other Garfield games besides Magic, which I am utterly sick to death of. I mean, I got into the Arena closed beta and never redeemed the code.
Netrunner is really dope, and I am also sick of MtG. Arena is too little, too late and I am looking forward to a game designed specifically for digital format.
Yes, from a high level:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Artifact/comments/6zgiyt/artifact_what_we_know_so_far/
and the cards we know about: https://artifactcards.info/card/list
Let's be real though, we've rarely ever had that in Hearthstone.
But a lot of it is perception. Even when people have complained in the past, I've always found ways to win against top decks with off meta decks. This meta has been rough for me, lol.
I don't actually really mind the paladins or zoo decks. It's the res priests and cube locks that are keeping me away from the game right now.
Ungoro minus quest rogue was a good meta. Hated the Jade though.
I have high hopes for rotation though. I'll be happy if I just have to auto concede to warlock.
Speaking of which, has anyone tried that Astro Boy CCG? I'm very curious about it but can't bring myself to try it. Has a better review average on steam than Solforge at least.
EDIT: the artifact stuff was covered better by a previous post. I didn't realize so much information was released.
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Agree with that. Zoo/face decks always exist and they are always counterable. It's decks that cheat out minions that are the problem. Res priest is luckily dead in two weeks, so that's positive.
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