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RalchAC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
825
I'm never ever getting near a game in which David Cage has even a slight involvement on, I heard he wasn't the lead writer or something but I don't care, pass.

I love SciFi so I'll probably eventually get it. But the idea of using robots as a parallelism of the Civil Rights Movement in the US doesn't appeal to me that much.

Maybe I shouldn't be as influenced by people in ERA that much since a lot of users have some sort of irrational hatred towards David Cage, but I'd rather wait until it's like 20-30€.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
I love SciFi so I'll probably eventually get it. But the idea of using robots as a parallelism of the Civil Rights Movement in the US doesn't appeal to me that much.

Maybe I shouldn't be as influenced by people in ERA that much since a lot of users have some sort of irrational hatred towards David Cage, but I'd rather wait until it's like 20-30€.
I want his work to be a "so bad it's good" sort of situation. I want his games to be The Room, but mostly they're just poorly written and overtly antagonistic to PoC and women (with varying degrees of racism and sexism). None of his games ever swing so hard into absurdism that they actually work. As a friend of mine once said, "they're trainwrecks played out in slow motion."
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
I still don't understand how people decided it was a good idea to keep going to David Cage for story-based games after Indigo Prophecy.

People somehow looked at that mess and thought, "yeah, this is the guy to move storytelling in games forward!"
 

Reven Wolf

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,563
I still don't understand how people decided it was a good idea to keep going to David Cage for story-based games after Indigo Prophecy.

People somehow looked at that mess and thought, "yeah, this is the guy to move storytelling in games forward!"
To be fair, I was told by a user on this very forum that apparently his games aren't about the story.

I was not convinced.
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
Heavy Rain kinda had its beautiful moments of extreme badness to the point of being enjoyable, but a lot of them you either had to play "wrong" or glitch the game.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
I still don't understand how people decided it was a good idea to keep going to David Cage for story-based games after Indigo Prophecy.

People somehow looked at that mess and thought, "yeah, this is the guy to move storytelling in games forward!"
I'm not surprised by it at all. There's still basically no standard for writing quality in video games, and even games that are acclaimed for their writing typically pale in comparison to even average texts in other entertainment media. And I don't think it's a lack of quality writers, I just think, both people who play games and people who develop them, don't typically care (and frequently that's justified).

It's easy for me to see how one could sell a mediocre (or even awful, if we're talking Cage) script as a masterpiece in that environment.
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
Wrong. Cage's games are really about... ... ... EMOTIONS.
EgWr.gif
 
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Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Actually you're right. The second half aside from immersion was the poster telling me that emotions was theitgrr thing that should be considered.

Still didn't really buy it because a terrible story is not going to leave me with good emotions.

I also don't like how his games are so mixed message. Like take his latest game (which I watched a video of because I ain't paying money for that). One of the big points needed to get the best ending is to always choose the non-violent option with Markus (which is its own problem because that's too sanitized of an opinion on how civil disobedience works) yet with Konor violence IS the answer for a good chunk of his choices (especially late game). So you have the central theme of "violence is never the answer" constantly contradicted against by Conor (and to a lesser extant by Kara as well).
 

RalchAC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
825
I want his work to be a "so bad it's good" sort of situation. I want his games to be The Room, but mostly they're just poorly written and overtly antagonistic to PoC and women (with varying degrees of racism and sexism). None of his games ever swing so hard into absurdism that they actually work. As a friend of mine once said, "they're trainwrecks played out in slow motion."

As far as I've seen, I feel like most of the problems in his works are that he obliviously perpetuates a lot of problematic tropes, views and situations that have been prevalent in media over the years, without properly analyzing them and thinking if they should make it to the final script.

As an author, he should try to do better and avoid those kind of problematic and harmful situations, since they can be as harmful (if not more) as something done with malicious intent. Especially when you're releasing a game for an international market and setting it in a foreign country like the United States.

Despite having the subtlety of an exploding truck full of fireworks, it seems like this game has improved in that front compared to his previous games. Having a writting room probably helps.

Actually you're right. The second half aside from immersion was the poster telling me that emotions was theitgrr thing that should be considered.

Still didn't really buy it because a terrible story is not going to leave me with good emotions.

I think this is a problem with standards. I don't want to sound patronizing, but little to nobody would say the same if they were reading a book or watching a film.

Whether it's a book, a TV series, a film, or a videogame, writting is key to both inmersion and the ability of the piece of media to transmit the emotions it wants to. Writting is necessary to create a world that's believable, to craft characters that speak and act in believable ways and, once you care about them, to build tension and create situations that make you worry about their wellbeing.

Hell, writting is the biggest reason why most people prefer Uncharted over the new Tomb Raider. And that's an action adventure game about a treasure hunter travelling the world and accidentally destroying ruins. The problem with this people (IMO) is that they like a niche that is underserved, so there isn't much stuff to compare it to. Kind of how somewhere in my mind I was in denial, thinking that Tales of Xillia 1&2 were like an 8 or so before Tales of Berseria launched and I saw them as the crappy 6 and 6.5-7 that they respectively are.

If there were more studios releasing similar experiences, I think people would be less fond of Quantic Dream. But the competition is basically Telltale, which isn't in the same league, and Supermassive, which instead of doing more stuff like Until Dawn has been the go to Sony "gimmick" studio instead of being able to focus on a single and better game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
I love SciFi so I'll probably eventually get it. But the idea of using robots as a parallelism of the Civil Rights Movement in the US doesn't appeal to me that much.

Maybe I shouldn't be as influenced by people in ERA that much since a lot of users have some sort of irrational hatred towards David Cage, but I'd rather wait until it's like 20-30€.

Rant incoming:

Let me tell you something. This game got a pass for how much it actually fucked up. I assume this is because the majority of journalists are white and a lot of them try not to deal with any sort of political issues in games.

What the game does is far worse than I was led to believe. It's a failure of a story at multiple levels. It does not even start by trying to meaningful attempt to convince you that the Androids are human. It simply states it and asks you to accept it. That alone devalues so much of the games narrative as if you don't, the story pretty much falls apart from hour 1.

It mirrors the "immigrants are stealing our jobs" mantra found in the real world but with Androids, except that Androids in Detroit have actually caused unemployment to go up to 40% as a result of automation. I'm supposed to feel bad for the Androids, that you've told me are human but haven't shown me, okay, I'll bite. But I'm not supposed to feel bad for some homeless guy who lost his job as a result of automation? Okay. Also just a plot point that shows up for all of 5 minutes as window dressing never to be tackled again.

Race. Oh boy. The best way to describe Detroit is a game written by white privlidged dudes trying to explain to other privlidged white dudes what racism is. Not a single moment in this game do you ever get the inkling that the writer has ever suffered an ounce of oppression in any way. At the games best, it's a collection of Wikipedia quotes used to evoke the movements without any thought to deeper meaning. In my playthrough, there was not a single moment of oppression that was an original thought. Every single one could be linked to something popular in the media. And it's just used as is. Like window dressing. At it's worst, the game sends huge conflicting messages. The game is filled with black folks yet only one has a line that references what they suffered, and the game brushes it off immediatly. One line in my entire playthrough, that's it. It is the most hollow and fake representation of minorities in a game I've seen in a while.

Kara. She's scared of the big black Android when they first meet. But, surprise, he's actually a nice guy. He exists to serve as exposition in case you didn't understand the themes of Kara's story line, as he reiterates them a couple of times for you. He's also the strong big presence to protect Kara because otherwise, all she can do the entire game is pretty much run from danger. Ugh.

There's so much wrong with this games story that I'd be writing for ages here. And some of it I feel more qualified to write about (PoC perspective), and some of it, I'd rather a female individual write about (Kara).

Cause fuck, this game should be getting raked over the coals.

Edit: Oh I totally forgot about the shameless Holocaust stuff in the game too... cause everything else wasn't bad enough, we had to have that as well.
 
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RalchAC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
825
Rant incoming:

Let me tell you something. This game got a pass for how much it actually fucked up. I assume this is because the majority of journalists are white and a lot of them try not to deal with any sort of political issues in games.

What the game does is far worse than I was led to believe. It's a failure of a story at multiple levels. It does not even start by trying to meaningful attempt to convince you that the Androids are human. It simply states it and asks you to accept it. That alone devalues so much of the games narrative as if you don't, the story pretty much falls apart from hour 1.

It mirrors the "immigrants are stealing our jobs" mantra found in the real world but with Androids, except that Androids in Detroit have actually caused unemployment to go up to 40% as a result of automation. I'm supposed to feel bad for the Androids, that you've told me are human but haven't shown me, okay, I'll bite. But I'm not supposed to feel bad for some homeless guy who lost his job as a result of automation? Okay. Also just a plot point that shows up for all of 5 minutes as window dressing never to be tackled again.

Race. Oh boy. The best way to describe Detroit is a game written by white privlidged dudes trying to explain to other privlidged white dudes what racism is. Not a single moment in this game do you ever get the inkling that the writer has ever suffered an ounce of oppression in any way. At the games best, it's a collection of Wikipedia quotes used to evoke the movements without any thought to deeper meaning. In my playthrough, there was not a single moment of oppression that was an original thought. Every single one could be linked to something popular in the media. And it's just used as is. Like window dressing. At it's worst, the game sends huge conflicting messages. The game is filled with black folks yet only one has a line that references what they suffered, and the game brushes it off immediatly. One line in my entire playthrough, that's it. It is the most hollow and fake representation of minorities in a game I've seen in a while.

Kara. She's scared of the big black Android when they first meet. But, surprise, he's actually a nice guy. He exists to serve as exposition in case you didn't understand the themes of Kara's story line, as he reiterates them a couple of times for you. He's also the strong big presence to protect Kara because otherwise, all she can do the entire game is pretty much run from danger. Ugh.

There's so much wrong with this games story that I'd be writing for ages here. And some of it I feel more qualified to write about (PoC perspective), and some of it, I'd rather a female individual write about (Kara).

Cause fuck, this game should be getting raked over the coals.

Thanks for taking your time to write your opinions, really. There is not much more I can say than that.
 

dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,587
Germany
I also don't like how his games are so mixed message. Like take his latest game (which I watched a video of because I ain't paying money for that). One of the big points needed to get the best ending is to always choose the non-violent option with Markus (which is its own problem because that's too sanitized of an opinion on how civil disobedience works) yet with Konor violence IS the answer for a good chunk of his choices (especially late game). So you have the central theme of "violence is never the answer" constantly contradicted against by Conor (and to a lesser extant by Kara as well).
I got a great positive ending with going fully violent as Markus so this is incorrect. Both approaches are viable otherwise there would be no point to a lot of the choices. Doing morally good choices always also kills off a major side character.

It depends entirely how you wanna play the characters and Connor contrasting the other two is obviously intended with his intentions for most of the game. Intentions you can push against if you want.

The only time the game punishes you if you already went down a violent path but then try to suddenly become non violent which makes no sense after the things you have already done
 
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esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
I got a great positive ending with going fully violent as Markus so this is incorrect. Both approaches are viable otherwise there would be no point to a lot of the choices. Doing morally good choices always also kills off a major side character.

It depends entirely how you wanna play the characters and Connor contrasting the other two is obviously intended with his intentions for most of the game. Intentions you can push against if you want.

The only time the game punishes you if you already went down a violent path but then try to suddenly become non violent which makes no sense after the things you have already done
This seems silly. There are always going to be contexts in which non-violence can be seen as the better solution, even for characters who have displayed violence. The fact that the game doles out punishment for changing your mind is antithetical to a game about choice.
 

dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,587
Germany
This seems silly. There are always going to be contexts in which non-violence can be seen as the better solution, even for characters who have displayed violence. The fact that the game doles out punishment for changing your mind is antithetical to a game about choice.
It only really does that when it flat out wouldn't be realistic to work with the way you have acted before that. If you kill unarmed people and damage a lot of property but then suddenly think you can lead a peaceful protest and expect people to believe that you are genuine it is absolutely fair that the game does not literally break and allow you to succeed with something that unrealistic. I actually believe that is respecting the player's choices way more then just allowing him to do whatever the hell he wants without much consequence a la Mass Effect where it really is simple to get the best outcome by hammering Paragon on every choice. That is boring for me.

I did a mix of peaceful and violent actions in my initial playthrough of Detroit and ultimately succeeded peacefully, so I was allowed to change my mind. I never went over the line though aka murder people and only acted violently when the other side provoked it which made the difference.

And of course if you stick to violent actions throughout you can still win and get a good ending as I said. I think the game does a great job at asking tough questions but without going "hahaha bad choice you are dead".

Just now whe had someone in the OT who thought Markus would be a violent type, but he personally sided with Connor and set him on a path where he ended up killing everyone else and he loved both the ending and that the game allowed him to play that way without breaking.
 
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AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
I'd downloaded the demo of Shining Resonance: Refrain to try on my lunch break- it's only about fifteen minutes long, and ten of those are cut scenes of characters with lengthy fantastical titles introducing themselves. I think this is probably the most anime game I've ever played out of over a hundred JRPGs.

This is the first character I meet, Sonia, a 'knight'. With a lacy boobplate cupping her breasts and leaving her vitals exposed, with an armoured boobstrap on top of them that has it's own boobwindow in it. Obviously stockings, figure-hugging corset 'armour', weird belt deployment, plate armour that must be wafer-thin on her deformed ankles and a a loose idea of anatomy go hand-in-hand. Her buckler is bizarrely attached to the underarm as it's more important that it somehow works as a violin (?!), and a scabbard is unnecessary as everyone's weapons teleport into existence. Which is really bloody handy for the young man who just escaped from prison and had his inner voice telling him to draw his sword.
Fxz78L.jpeg
Dont forget her high heels and her I-swear-you-can-see-her-panties choice for a battle dress.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
It only really does that when it flat out wouldn't be realistic to work with the way you have acted before that. If you kill unarmed people and damage a lot of property but then suddenly think you can lead a peaceful protest and expect people to believe that you are genuine it is absolutely fair that the game does not literally break and allow you to succeed with something that unrealistic. I actually believe that is respecting the player's choices way more then just allowing him to do whatever the hell he wants without much consequence a la Mass Effect where it really is simple to get the best outcome by hammering Paragon on every choice. That is boring for me.

I did a mix of peaceful and violent actions in my initial playthrough of Detroit and ultimately succeeded peacefully, so I was allowed to change my mind. I never went over the line though aka murder people and only acted violently when the other side provoked it which made the difference.

And of course if you stick to violent actions throughout you can still win and get a good ending as I said. I think the game does a great job at asking tough questions but without going "hahaha bad choice you are dead".

Just now whe had someone in the OT who thought Markus would be a violent type, but he personally sided with Connor and set him on a path where he ended up killing everyone else and he loved both the ending and that the game allowed him to play that way without breaking.
So which is it then? This goes against the previous argument you just made about the game punishing for making choices that weren't following a specific (violent or non-violent) path.

The arguments you're currently making bring up a plethora of other problems, but they're also not relevant to the argument you made previously (they, in fact, contradict it).

The problem with the newly presented argument is base assumptions. What is "realistic" or what "makes sense" in a world with living androids is entirely out the window, because if it's a fictional world, anything can be realistic or make sense, and what's important is whether or not the context presented is convincing. I think that from the start the game jumps into its own absurdity, but it unfortunately expects us to take it seriously when the consequences for making decisions are either moot or lead to repetitious scenarios.
 
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dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,587
Germany
So which is it then? This goes against the previous argument you just made about the game punishing for making choices that weren't following a specific (violent or non-violent) path.

The arguments you're currently making bring up a plethora of other problems, but they're also not relevant to the argument you made previously (they, in fact, contradict it).

The problem with the newly presented argument is base assumptions. What is "realistic" or what "makes sense" in a world with living androids is entirely out the window, because if it's a fictional world, anything can be realistic or make sense, and what's important is whether or not the context presented is convincing. I think that from the start the game jumps into its own absurdity, but it unfortunately expects us to take it seriously when the consequences for making decisions are either moot or lead to repetitious scenarios.
I literally explained it in the post. It's not binary, it is nuanced. You only get punished if you totally lean one direction so hard it would be entirely unrealistic to heel turn 180 and expect it to work at the last second. You are allowed to do a bit of both and change your mind with the threshold on violent being the harming of innocent people. It's dumb that most choice driven games ignore your choices you made throughout the game and give you a last second chance to do the opposite a la Mass Effect 3 color endings. You should get appropriately judged for the choices you made, but of course you shouldn't be locked down one path permanently after a single decision either which would be dumb. Detroit does this perfectly in my eyes by judging you on the lump of your decisions rather than one or the final one only.

The only aspect I'm talking about and that I like about Detroit is that you can not expect to not get gunned down immediately leading a peaceful march after you literally destroyed several neighborhoods, murdered unarmed cops on duty and slaughtered an entire task force of soldiers openly declaring war. That is common sense and has nothing to do with realism, sci-fi or not. It would be an asinine choice in any reality and would lead to your death.

Besides, I was replying to someone else on how you can be violent the entirety of the game and still reach a "good" ending for all of the main characters, which was a simple correction of the facts. I was not intending to make any other argument until you quoted me
 
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esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
I literally explained it in the post. It's not binary, it is nuanced. You only get punished if you totally lean one direction so hard it would be entirely unrealistic to heel turn 180 and expect it to work at the last second. You are allowed to do a bit of both and change your mind with the threshold on violent being the harming of innocent people. It's dumb that most choice driven games ignore your choices you made throughout the game and give you a last second chance to do the opposite a la Mass Effect 3 color endings. You should get appropriately judged for the choices you made, but of course you shouldn't be locked down one path permanently after a single decision either which would be dumb. Detroit does this perfectly in my eyes by judging you on the lump of your decisions rather than one or the final one only.

Besides, I was replying to someone else on how you can be violent the entirety of the game and still reach a "good" ending for all of the main characters, which was a simple correction of the facts. I was not intending to make any other argument until you quoted me
You say that it's dumb, but last minute heel-turning isn't uncommon even in modern politics. To believe that it couldn't happen seems equally silly, even if the consequences may not necessarily make sense. And there are plenty of occurrences in which you are locked into one decision or another that either greatly simplify or outright skip a number of key points throughout the game. I am not so concerned with the "greater message" of the game given that its smaller messages throughout are so mixed and inconsistent, regardless of the decisions you're making. Connor, Kara, and Markus's stories are told poorly, which means whatever impact or greater message is attempting to be conveyed by your decisions can't be built up because there's no basis for it. A house built on a foundation of sand is doomed to sink.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,908
We've had people in this thread say "ok, but whats the solution?" And stuff like "wow this thread is still going?"

With articles like this, I feel like things are changing. When this thread was created, if someone told me the next Dead or Alive game wouldn't have boob physics I would call them crazy, yet here we are.

Hopefully the next Soul Calibur will follow suit.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
New Fire Emblem Heroes summer banner. Let's have a look.
First up, Noire: is this pose even possible? Feels like it needs to be sent over to the Hawkeye Initiative for examination by the archer-contortionist himself.


4ccRKS.jpeg

We've also got Innes, who clearly shops at the same assymetrical surf shack as Tidus.
roIG1D.png


Followed by Cordelia. Managing to be cavalry in those ankle-busting high-heeled sandals. And shopping at the same surf shack as Pyra. At least she didn't follow Innes I suppose. Cool shell/harpoon thing detail though.
4NCMuI.png


Finally, Tana. Why bother with an Armourslayer Sword when you can whip everyone into submission with a beach towel.

ialI47.png
 
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legitmeow

User requested ban
Banned
Jun 16, 2018
44
I agree with many points brought up in this discussion, but any kind of political message is bad in video games. It is not a propaganda plattform, just because people try to turn it into one. Period. VIDEO GAMING SHOULD BE 100% NEUTRAL EXCEPT IF IT IS BASED ON HISTORICAL EVENTS
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,908
JP
I agree with many points brought up in this discussion, but any kind of political message is bad in video games. It is not a propaganda plattform, just because people try to turn it into one. Period. VIDEO GAMING SHOULD BE 100% NEUTRAL EXCEPT IF IT IS BASED ON HISTORICAL EVENTS
Are you going to decide what's propaganda and what's not? Some people feel like TLOU is now "SJW propaganda", lol.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I agree with many points brought up in this discussion, but any kind of political message is bad in video games. It is not a propaganda plattform, just because people try to turn it into one. Period. VIDEO GAMING SHOULD BE 100% NEUTRAL EXCEPT IF IT IS BASED ON HISTORICAL EVENTS
The status quo is not apolitical, and so shouldn't have the advantage and defence of badging any criticism or progressive idea as 'unwanted politics' while current political biases, advantages, disadvantages and agendas are protected as being 'neutral'. Existing forms of discrimination aren't 'neutral' and thus shouldnt be 'protected from politics and criticism' just because they are invisible to many because they have been around for a while and thus normalised.
 
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Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I agree with many points brought up in this discussion, but any kind of political message is bad in video games. It is not a propaganda plattform, just because people try to turn it into one. Period. VIDEO GAMING SHOULD BE 100% NEUTRAL EXCEPT IF IT IS BASED ON HISTORICAL EVENTS

Newsflash: All forms of media, including video games, have a political message. It's just that now they're including more political messages than the ones you are used to hearing. Metal Gear Solid as a whole is a bunch of political messaging. Same is Nier: Automata and even Splatoon.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
I agree with many points brought up in this discussion, but any kind of political message is bad in video games. It is not a propaganda plattform, just because people try to turn it into one. Period. VIDEO GAMING SHOULD BE 100% NEUTRAL EXCEPT IF IT IS BASED ON HISTORICAL EVENTS
Art has always had a bias since the dawn of time. Artist are free to express any kind of political message in their products and we're free to criticize them for it if we dont like it or praise them if we do. Just like that. It happens with books, movies, tv shows, paintings, theater, everywhere else so videogames shouldnt be an exception.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,008
Canada
I agree with many points brought up in this discussion, but any kind of political message is bad in video games. It is not a propaganda plattform, just because people try to turn it into one. Period. VIDEO GAMING SHOULD BE 100% NEUTRAL EXCEPT IF IT IS BASED ON HISTORICAL EVENTS

Already gone, but uh that was a very high tier comment. What a boring view on the medium
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
We've had people in this thread say "ok, but whats the solution?" And stuff like "wow this thread is still going?"

With articles like this, I feel like things are changing. When this thread was created, if someone told me the next Dead or Alive game wouldn't have boob physics I would call them crazy, yet here we are.

Hopefully the next Soul Calibur will follow suit.

I guess the question is whether there should a place for cheesecake games at all, for the people that do enjoy that kind of game.

The article itself says that the number of down to earth women protagonist and playable characters have gone up in recent years, making games like soul caliber feel more stuck in the past. But does that mean they should change?
 

Manzoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,197
East Coast, USA
Rant incoming:

Let me tell you something. This game got a pass for how much it actually fucked up. I assume this is because the majority of journalists are white and a lot of them try not to deal with any sort of political issues in games.

What the game does is far worse than I was led to believe. It's a failure of a story at multiple levels. It does not even start by trying to meaningful attempt to convince you that the Androids are human. It simply states it and asks you to accept it. That alone devalues so much of the games narrative as if you don't, the story pretty much falls apart from hour 1.

It mirrors the "immigrants are stealing our jobs" mantra found in the real world but with Androids, except that Androids in Detroit have actually caused unemployment to go up to 40% as a result of automation. I'm supposed to feel bad for the Androids, that you've told me are human but haven't shown me, okay, I'll bite. But I'm not supposed to feel bad for some homeless guy who lost his job as a result of automation? Okay. Also just a plot point that shows up for all of 5 minutes as window dressing never to be tackled again.

Race. Oh boy. The best way to describe Detroit is a game written by white privlidged dudes trying to explain to other privlidged white dudes what racism is. Not a single moment in this game do you ever get the inkling that the writer has ever suffered an ounce of oppression in any way. At the games best, it's a collection of Wikipedia quotes used to evoke the movements without any thought to deeper meaning. In my playthrough, there was not a single moment of oppression that was an original thought. Every single one could be linked to something popular in the media. And it's just used as is. Like window dressing. At it's worst, the game sends huge conflicting messages. The game is filled with black folks yet only one has a line that references what they suffered, and the game brushes it off immediatly. One line in my entire playthrough, that's it. It is the most hollow and fake representation of minorities in a game I've seen in a while.

Kara. She's scared of the big black Android when they first meet. But, surprise, he's actually a nice guy. He exists to serve as exposition in case you didn't understand the themes of Kara's story line, as he reiterates them a couple of times for you. He's also the strong big presence to protect Kara because otherwise, all she can do the entire game is pretty much run from danger. Ugh.

There's so much wrong with this games story that I'd be writing for ages here. And some of it I feel more qualified to write about (PoC perspective), and some of it, I'd rather a female individual write about (Kara).

Cause fuck, this game should be getting raked over the coals.

Edit: Oh I totally forgot about the shameless Holocaust stuff in the game too... cause everything else wasn't bad enough, we had to have that as well.
I love jumping into this thread every so often to catch up and seeing a great post like this. This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the game perfectly.

Redcrayon my back hurts just looking at that first pose.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,402
I guess the question is whether there should a place for cheesecake games at all, for the people that do enjoy that kind of game.

The article itself says that the number of down to earth women protagonist and playable characters have gone up in recent years, making games like soul caliber feel more stuck in the past. But does that mean they should change?
Soul Edge is older than Soul Calibur (it's essentially the first game in the franchise) and had far less cheesecake. Perhaps it is Soul Edge that changed for the worse, and the next Soul Caliburs should instead return to its roots... (thinkingemoji.gif)
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
Soul Edge is older than Soul Calibur (it's essentially the first game in the franchise) and had far less cheesecake. Perhaps it is Soul Edge that changed for the worse, and the next Soul Caliburs should instead return to its roots... (thinkingemoji.gif)

You may be right. I don't remember that much about the early versions. I played soul edge in the arcade and had soul caliber on Dreamcast. But the one I remember most was the 360 version where the fighters clothes came off when they received too much damage.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
If my credentials of one archery class in college have any say in the matter, that shot is rather poor form.
Clearly you're not an expert in the gourd-form arrow, which uses the natural elasticity of the spine of a young woman combined with the strength of summer blossom to propel the projectile at armour-piercing velocity.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Sure, if you snap your spine in two first.

Fire Emblem, especially FEH, has long since fallen into "i'm not mad, I'm just disappointed" territory for me as of late. At least what we've seen from the new one didn't immediately make me hate everything.
It's a shame really- I thought the Valentines ones were really cool, smart, elegant and attractive outfits. It was nice to see formalwear rather than combat lingerie for a change.
 
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