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2020 Presidential Democratic Primary Debate V |OT| All Coastal Elite Wrestling
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
I'm just going to say this flat-out: If Bernie doesn't get nominated, I don't want to hear people complaining about all politicians being corrupt and can't be trusted because you had your chance to vote for an upstanding and legitimate person who authentically fights for the working class. This goes for people on Era and outside of this forum. People like him don't often come around. Perhaps the next person similar to Bernie will be AOC. That would be your second chance, providing she decides to run for president someday.
What's illegitimate about Elizabeth warren?
Also, wake the fuck up, Bernie and AOC are outliers in the political game.
"Good perfect" people that are so highly regarded on this site, the type that can throw stones because they don't live in glass homes, well, they rarely exist. And if they do exist, they aren't good at playing politics.
Edit: I love Bernie Sanders, but his unfavorables are WAY too high. He is synonymous with "soCiAliSM", and that's just not nationally ready.
Elizabeth is Bernie with a dash, neigh, a fucking heaping mountain of realism added.
She can win, she will win.
I'm aware. There's a part of me who thinks he's more socialist than he lets on but also that he's been around long enough to know to sell himself as a social democrat instead of a seize-the-means socialist. It hardly matters in the end, people will vote for what they see and he will always be checked by Congress. The ultimate outcome of a Sanders presidency will be an advancement of social democracy in America.
To go back to the original comment though, I don't think democratic socialists (what I'd call myself) have a monopoly on "progressivism" so I feel more comfortable dividing online media between "capitalist progressives" and "socialist/anti-capitalist progressives". Setting aside my ideological and philosophical belief that capitalism is incompatible with social progress (for some nebulous definition of progress), I can't actually force liberal progressives to stop labeling themselves as such, nor demand that they accept my definitions, but I can at least draw a distinction between capitalist progressivism and socialist progressivism in the media sphere if one were so inclined to use these words.
Also I very much doubt I'll live long enough to see a day when WaPo becomes overtly anti-capitalist.
Warren is good, but Bernie goes further left than her. Ideally, you'd want him as president. Also, she doesn't have strong support from black voters, so I'm skeptical that she can win. She would be better off dropping out eventually and backing Bernie. At the very least, that could deter Biden from getting the nomination.
I mean if I was the sole decider of 2020 I'd have Bernie win and the house and senate go blue and the Supreme Court inflated to 12 judges, 7 blue 5 red, but it's not about what's ideal, it's about what's realistic.
Also, black voters like Biden for now, just cause he's the "front runner" but that title is going away soon, warrens got that money in the bank and she about to cash that shit.
No one has strong black support except Biden. Everyone should drop out and support Biden.
He has the Obama name association. That's all. In the later debates, when the spotlight is on him, Bernie, and Warren, it's going to get dicey for him. We'll see if he can maintain that strong support from black voters. I believe that his many blunders, gaffes, and occasional ridiculous and condescending statements will turn many people away.
But, don't you think in the end the majority of black voters will vote for who's D anyways?
Didn't Hillary have high black support too?
Idk, I think policy wise Bernie, Booker, Harris, and Warren are most beneficial for minorities, and any of those 4 would be winners in the general.
I know it's a HOT TAKE, but I just don't believe Biden would win in the general.
Yes, he has high support right now, that can be a double edged sword tho, people could think he's guaranteed to win, and not even go vote, or!, people could just not be motivated by his ancient ass and not go vote. I don't care if the polls have him up a couple points higher than the other candidates, the man is not exciting, and democrats need excitement.
I think it's likely Biden could limp over the finish line in a general (though not guaranteed), but I think his administration would only cosmetically tackle any of the severe problems facing the US and the world and it'd lead to something even worse than Trump in 2024/2028
Yeah, but we're talking about which candidate black voters will majorly support in the primary. General isn't a worry in that respect. You mentioned Harris and Booker, but look at their polling numbers. They aren't going anywhere, and I'm confident in predicting that. The last three will be Biden, Bernie, and Warren. The rest of them have been consistently polling low percentages.
My casual hot take on all the candidates that I can remember:
1. Biden - He exudes old age, but he'll do fine in the general so long as his gaffes and stutteriness stay at their current levels.
2. Warren - comes across as competent and confident. I think she would do well against Trump.
3. Harris - every time she says let me be clear, she isn't. Comes off as rehearsed, but not well-rehearsed.
4. Sanders - Similar appeal as Warren, but comes off as older (though not as old as Biden comes off), but it feels like he doesn't go as deep into things as Warren when he answers. Would probably do well against Trump.
Mayor Pete - Poised and intelligent, but boring.
Yang - Interesting and genuine, but too one-note.
Klobuchar - I'm sorry, no.
Julian - Not a good look to "bully" the old guy. If you're gonna do it, you gotta be more subtle. Strong on some issues though.
Beto - I really like the new Beto after the shooting. Genuine and passionate. He's not going to win, but he has my respect.
Booker - Damn, almost forgot him. I like him a lot especially on race-related issues, and in general I like his tone and vision, but damn it if I don't forget him every time I think about the field of candidates.
1. Biden - He exudes old age, but he'll do fine in the general so long as his gaffes and stutteriness stay at their current levels.
2. Warren - comes across as competent and confident. I think she would do well against Trump.
3. Harris - every time she says let me be clear, she isn't. Comes off as rehearsed, but not well-rehearsed.
4. Sanders - Similar appeal as Warren, but comes off as older (though not as old as Biden comes off), but it feels like he doesn't go as deep into things as Warren when he answers. Would probably do well against Trump.
Mayor Pete - Poised and intelligent, but boring.
Yang - Interesting and genuine, but too one-note.
Klobuchar - I'm sorry, no.
Julian - Not a good look to "bully" the old guy. If you're gonna do it, you gotta be more subtle. Strong on some issues though.
Beto - I really like the new Beto after the shooting. Genuine and passionate. He's not going to win, but he has my respect.
Booker - Damn, almost forgot him. I like him a lot especially on race-related issues, and in general I like his tone and vision, but damn it if I don't forget him every time I think about the field of candidates.
But almost as important as the presidential election is the senate, and with average turnout we might do worse than already expected.
2020 needs to be Obama 2008 levels of engagement, and yea, Biden was there, but people weren't there for Biden, they were there for Obama and his electrifying campaign.
He has always supported a ban on assault weapons. In Texas, that's a bold stance. Have you had a mass shooting in your community? Its (obviously) very jarring and I can't blame him for wanting to return to El Paso and speak even more strongly for gun control.
I am from El Paso and know the Walmart quite well. My mom almost went into work the day of the shooting that was 2 minutes from it. So spare me, the shooting shook me more than most here on ResetEra despite not living there anymore. I wasn't sure if friends or family were present for a while.
And no he hasn't supported a ban in the past. In 2018 he said the exact opposite when running for senate. His words on the Chad Hasty radio show.
"If you purchased that AR-15, if you own it, keep it. Continue to use it responsibly."
He added: "If you own a gun, keep that gun. Nobody wants to take it away from you — at least I don't want to do that."
It isn't wrong to say he is taking advantage of the shooting, either directly or indirectly. It has benefited him and brought him back into prominence. I am not saying he is being evil because of it, the media put a new light on him because of the shooting.
I don't know about that. Biden has been struggling hard with addressing criticism aimed at him on stage, and that's with candidates who are relatively respectful of debate decorum. Now add in Trump rules where insults are fair game, and Biden is going to crash & burn. Although, I would find it perplexing if more than half of the country voted for Trump, even if Biden was the nominee.
Do you think debates are about policy?
Nah fam, they're about persona and posture
I agree. Texas is a lean right state now. It will be a toss up state in 2030. Texas Republicans are more entrepreneurial and less status based. There's also a lot more Hispanics and now they're skewed further left in fear of ICE and white supremacists. Texas is winnable in 2020.
Sanders being the only Senator up there to vote against the continually increasing military budget really surprised me. I looked into it and Warren has continually voted to increase it. Then when questioned on it, she reframed the question and gave a non answer.
Interesting.
For me personally that is nearly disqualifying.
750 Billion dollars for what?? For fucking what? And she has said the budget has had a long tradition of bipartisan cooperation and that the budget will "make a real, positive impact on the lives of Americans".
Really Elizabeth? Which Americans are we talking about here? Do you know what else we could do with hundreds of billions that would actually have a positive impact on real Americans??
Not fucking happy to read this. She's still my number 2 because who the fuck else is there, but she is far from anything I want. I expect this type of bullshit from the Bidens or some of the other frauds up there, but not from Warren.
Interesting.
For me personally that is nearly disqualifying.
750 Billion dollars for what?? For fucking what? And she has said the budget has had a long tradition of bipartisan cooperation and that the budget will "make a real, positive impact on the lives of Americans".
Really Elizabeth? Which Americans are we talking about here? Do you know what else we could do with hundreds of billions that would actually have a positive impact on real Americans??
Not fucking happy to read this. She's still my number 2 because who the fuck else is there, but she is far from anything I want. I expect this type of bullshit from the Bidens or some of the other frauds up there, but not from Warren.
Probably jobs and industry if I were being nice to Warren.
Well I'll just keep my mouth shut aside from saying that (because optics as a Sanders supporter) but I'm pissed. It's really disappointing and I hope she can be pressured to change some on that. It's a big issue for me. I was in the military and have seen the absolute waste that some of that money goes towards. It is not needed.
Bernie is literally the only anti-war candidate running. Make no mistake about that.
Former navy man myself, and yea, that shit is literally just a jobs program, socialism at its least efficient basically.
You got all the ship yards, you got all the logistics, you got all the lots full of tanks, it's literally us printing money and handing it to Raytheon, Northrop gunnam, boeing, and dozens of other contractors. Straight from the taxpayers hand.
The beautiful thing is how much we are all pushed to get married, and buy into the 20 year career, and having the government pay us and our families to move all around the world, meanwhile the most idiotic of us still decry socialism and obummer, even though we get BAH BAS and TA, and GI Bill benefits when we get out.
Not to mention all that free healthcare.
I know you're being snide but pretty much every politician on that stage has had their hands in the weapon/arms industry because that shit's just baked in America, and that includes Bernie because Vermont is a gun/military state. I'm under no delusion that Bernie is spotless here, I just appreciate that he's willing to cut off some of our more lucrative "partners" like Saudi Arabia.
That was for the jobs it would create in his state. It was either there or in another state. It wasnt a yes I want that or no I dont choice. It was a here or there choice and he chose here (in Vermont).
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Watching two senile old men losing their mind on stage while trying to make coherent arguments is about what I'm expecting next year.
Voters would be so cynical and disinterested it would lead to another trump 4 years
Oh of course. Which is also something I'm expecting to happen.
He specifically mentions making it mandatory. PreK isn't. PreK is basically just daycare, but its even less than that because its usually 2-3 hours at best of a day.
But starting schooling earlier (especially the underfunded shitty schooling system that we have in the US) is a bad idea IMO all around. Like, my kids have been in daycare since age one, since we both work. But we were in the bay area for those first few years too, and getting out of that nutso "my kid has to be reading at an 8th grade level by age 5 or I and they are failures" culture is the main reason we moved. Let kids be kids and learn at their own pace. Let them enjoy their childhood for the few years they've got it. We've got neighbors now from the Netherlands and Norway, and they've both told us that school there wouldn't really start till age 7 or so.
Hold on. Is Bernie really anti war? I'm pretty sure he would intervene in Kosovo or Rwanda if he had to make a decision on that. Being against the military industrial complex isn't the same as being anti-war and I think Bernie is the former not the latter.
And if you agree with my assessment then you have to agree he's not the only candidate. It would be accurate to say he's the only front runner with those qualities.
Black voters also dont like the policy extremes Bernie and Warren are championing. Those two are largely ideal for white twitter activists and not much more.
Yes, it's pretty frustrating that the two are treated as inter-changeable.
Obviously I support both, and either would make a fantastic president that's fighting for worthy causes. But to me Warren is the consensus choice. I see a lot of powerful interests who would prefer 4 more years of Trump than a Sanders Presidency - some of them are within the Democratic party. So Bernie's campaign has a much bigger challenge. While Warren doesn't seem to be facing the same disdain outside of twitter & social media bubbles.
The thing that's a huge difference between the two candidates, is their Global Agenda. Warren seems to be lacking one - while Bernie even in 2016 outlined his priority. When he was on the debate stage and every other candidate named: Russia... Iran... Nuclear Weapons... ISIS... China. Bernie got on the stage and said "global crisis of climate change". Low and behold we are nearly 4 years into a President with a priority to accelerate the crisis, no global leadership on the issue, and incremental changes in behavior which have no way of stopping the oncoming storm. People are dying World wide every year and the numbers will grow exponentially. Hurricane Florence has caused damages valued at around $17bn and over 50 deaths. There are huge multi-million cities with a perspective of no water next summer. And scientists say that their estimates regarding how quickly this will escalate have been optimistic compared to what they are actually seeing in a short frame of time. It's something I argued over during the last primary - Clinton might have been president but she would not have done enough to avert a global catastrophic because she was deeply entrenched in the system, Warren is entrenched but less.. so. I'm sure she'd act boldly when called upon but it's not her priority the same way it's for Sanders. There is other things but this for me is the TOP priority - a Global Vision for a Future which is not Dystopian Nightmare and doesn't make films about Mad Max a documentary.
This is something I had written out in 2016 still rings true to this day.. and I was one of the few people on GAF that treated Trump seriously back in 2015 and warned that Clinton is a dangerous candidate to bring to a General election, after witnessing Bush getting elected twice. To me its truelly scary that some so-called-allies will side with Trump instead of Sanders in a potential match-up. Yet every other candidate is inviting them to a seat at the table.
PS: Climate Change Action Industrial Complex Resetera comity needs to be formed
No one does anything of note without taking the Senate. Everyone will do something of note with the Senate. Of course Biden/Bernie both are taking the tact of maintaining the filibuster. To be fair enough dems have pledged to keep the filibuster (something like 11?) that it doesn't actually matter if you're for or against abolishing the filibuster.
It does not matter in the slightest which Dem candidate wins the White House if we don't win back the senate.
Bernie or Warren would get *nothing* more progressive through than someone like Biden if Mitch controls the senate still.
There will be nothing done about health care. Nothing done about student debt. Nothing done about taxes. If we don't win the senate. No matter who wins the White House.
Bernie or Warren would get *nothing* more progressive through than someone like Biden if Mitch controls the senate still.
There will be nothing done about health care. Nothing done about student debt. Nothing done about taxes. If we don't win the senate. No matter who wins the White House.
I'm gonna stop you right there, because that's 100% incorrect.
I feel like having 22 people from your community gunned down may change someones perspective on how to address gun violence in this country, I think it's totally reasonable that he would drastically change his position and want to bring that conversation to the debate stage especially when it was barely talked about prior.
regardless of who the Dem nominee is I don't think we'll have an enthusiasm problem going into 2020.
I think Biden would be Hillary 2.0
Yea he'll win the pop vote, but you'll have a lot of protest voters again, and a lot of non voters again