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4 Improvements Halo: Infinite Can Make to Resurrect the Brand (Discussion)
- Thread starter Travless
- Start date
I don't think it means "half the fun" at any time -- there are different things conveyed during each, and any good game is about making your choices interesting and consequential. If you put it that way you might ask why you can't just shoot constantly: Why can't I shoot while throwing grenades? Why can't I shoot while driving the Warthog? Why can't I shoot during an assassination? etc etc. I understand not liking it, but as I expected it's just about not wanting to have to make the choice. And that's fair! There are a lot of different ways to make a shooter. Removing sprint just means those choices might be better somewhere else for you.
Well in Halo 5's case it makes maps bigger which doesn't actually make the game faster:
That's fair -- preferring the maps to be "smaller" or playing faster is something I can understand. But they could also just ... make your base speed faster, and make sprint even faster than that. Like if you were H2 fast normally, but you could sprint and be extremely fast? Would that be even better?
Raising the base speed does the same thing, and gives the player more control in the process.
But what would be the point in doing the latter if you do the former and the maps were designed to fit it?
I'm hoping for BTB maps to be made from scratch not Forge. Also would love more Warzone Firefight maps.
Also, I wonder how many sprint "haters" actually played Halo 5. Especially since the MP was the best gameplay of the series, and the Sprint was a main reason for that. You can't say Halo 5 has the best MP of the series but want to take out Sprint, etc.
Also, I wonder how many sprint "haters" actually played Halo 5. Especially since the MP was the best gameplay of the series, and the Sprint was a main reason for that. You can't say Halo 5 has the best MP of the series but want to take out Sprint, etc.
I think thrust by itself is a fine addition, but I didn't want it to replace strafes. Back in the old days you could dodge a lot of bullets without any thrust at all.
It would for me but I think people are trained to see base speed as "walking" and then that being supplemented by another movement ability. Could work if thrust is kept.
Because it keeps an interesting choice-based ability, and going EVEN FASTER is cool?
More Control >>> More Choices
And I'd rather something not be added just because it's cool or in some fans' eyes "Makes me feel like a spartan!"
https://youtu.be/u6YdPRyW0DA
90 second video does well to explain. There are others that go into more depth. Pay attention to the amount of map the guy runs through in 5 vs 2 (same map). It just stretches maps out and makes ledges higher. While it may feel faster all its really doing is creating time when people are not able to interface with their gun-it actually slows the game down.
Classic Halo is very fluid and your actions (melee, grenade, reload, jump, crouch, interact with switch, zoom, grabbing flag/bomb/oddball)are all doable while moving at top speed. Clamber, sprint, hover, thrust, ground pound, etc lock the player into animations where they are only able to perform one option. You could say that this introduces a risk/reward mechanic to the game but I would argue differently. There is a great quote somewhere about Halo feeling like a tank doing a ballet-I can't seem to find it right now. Halo's risk/reward structure was always built around moving while firing-if you watch old MLG footage it is really just "can I put more/better bullets on this guy while simultaneously moving/dodging his bullets"-the tank ballet. It was a game of speed and precision. With the new movement abilities you are denied that full range of motion while shooting-you are either the tank or the ballerina but not both at the same time.
See I don't think that's an interesting choice. With or without sprint , the decision to move into open space is always a choice that has consequences.
The difference is, without sprint you can weigh your choice to move out against your ability to constantly scan your surrounding, process events as they occur around you, and successfully engage with anyone who you might encounter along the way, regardless of where they may be.
With sprint you make a pre assessment, then hope no one spawns in a position disadvantagous to you while you're mid animation. That's it.
The former is a much more dynamic choice, and the promise of additional action as you move. leads to more choices more often.
The dislike is also not just about the choice, it's about the weirdness it brings to map design.
If sprint gives a 10% speed boost, you must make the map, 10% larger. Well now you have to give weapons 10% more range. But if you are in a gunfight, in a place designed to be sprinted through, you're moving 10% too slow vs the weapons that are designed to combat sprinters, so you are a sitting duck. To correct this, the dev throws in a wall to block off the sightline, so people can fight w/o getting dominated across the map. The result, We end up with a bunch of boring corridors instead of an interesting arena.
Designing maps around a single speed makes for better arenas.
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Sprinting doesn't allow you to go "even faster". It allows you to move at max speed SOMETIMES.
When you get rid of sprint, you are allowed to move at max speed ALL THE TIME.
Having sprint lowers your relative avg speed.
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I know people are afraid of open world halo but one of the wow factors of the original halo was the big open spaces and vehicular combat.
Now im not saying to make it open world, but I think making the levels much more open with some nice fields or just multiple ways to complete objectives can be a breath of fresh air without going away from what halo is.
Now im not saying to make it open world, but I think making the levels much more open with some nice fields or just multiple ways to complete objectives can be a breath of fresh air without going away from what halo is.
I don't think Halo needs to evolve in terms of "We must alter the base mechanics of how you do everything".
Like, you can evolve and change without that. In single-player, you could add an open world, with an inventory system, checkpoints/firebases, weapon upgrades and perks, etc. all without changing the pillars of Halo
Like, you can evolve and change without that. In single-player, you could add an open world, with an inventory system, checkpoints/firebases, weapon upgrades and perks, etc. all without changing the pillars of Halo
I'd might like Halo to be more like TitanFall but the speed might be a bit much for OG Halo purist.
Are people afraid of open world Halo? It seems like that's what people generally want/expect out Infinite.
I need the strafe speed to be high and really responsive, and jumping needs to be just that, no thruster shit lol.
Just based on what I personally saw around its announcement. Maybe that was just a loud minority at that moment lol
Tbf I also saw people worried it will copy GoW and be full of rpg elements and others still think theyre gonna make it a destiny clone lol the doom and gloom around halo can be silly
Quake champions? A hero shooter? Completely different balancing principles.
I think there's a big difference between having open spaces with linear narrative progression and having an open world.
I think the idea of more open environments is enticing. But they gotta be careful.
Don't have an emphasis on custom loadouts. Have all players start on equal grounds at the beginning of each match.
I have played a LOT LOT LOT of Halo. I really think the core MP in Halo 5 is pretty excellent. It's the best balanced FPS on console. Been playing it regularly for 3+ years now and it's still exciting and interesting and challenging and, at times, funny as hell.
TTK is fine IMO, all weapons can be useful, the game is fair and (in its current state) is well balanced. Aim assist is fine - - makes the game accessible, yet there's plenty of room for skill to be rewarded.
I really don't have core gameplay issues, but there ARE features I would like.
1. Treat BTB as a valued, important asset from the outset. BTB has been the also-ran this entire cycle, and it's easily my favorite playlist. Vehicles are integral to Halo.
2. I loved Warzone for the first few months. So many wonderful toys! The variant weapons and vehicles are SO fun. Then the hardcore had WAYYYYY too many REQs built up and it got impossible to play casually without a sizable geared squad. Now, REQs made them a lot of money (supposedly funneled to HCS) and they aren't going to leave that on the table. All the 1st party games WILL have some sort of DLC/cosmetic/extra $$ hooks. In return we get the game for free. But maybe cap the total REQ spend per match perhaps? So you can have all the uber-weapons you like, but you have to ration them. You only get 100 REQ points total or something. Afterward you only get normal load outs. Something along those lines.
3. MAKE A WAY TO MATCHMAKE FOR CAMPAIGN. This made me so angry. The first few weeks, it's easy to grab whomever and run co-op missions. The campaign is very fun to play with teammates. It is NOT fun solo on higher levels (it's actually quite fun on low levels, just wrecking people). If you are going to FORCE the campaign to be co-op at all times, there MUST be an easier way for EVERY player to field a team.
Even if 343 goes back to a standard Chief-against-the-world campaign mode with co-op like H3, that online party system needs to be easier. (And while you're at it, find a way to get it in MCC somehow. That'd be AMAZING.)
4. How fun would it be to steal back some ideas from Bungie and have some sort of Halo raid? In whichever way - - Firefight, Warzone, a raid, Spartan Ops-ish idea, whatever - more grouped co-op PVE please.
5. Add a new enemy. Even if it is flood-form Promees. Not a huge fan of the flood, but can't get to a 3rd game with no new enemies. I think they know a 3rd game that is Promeathean-heavy will not work.
6. In campaign, we need a few moments where we feel AWESOME. Halo 5 didn't have them. It made sense given the scale of the guardians and the wardens - - we were supposed to feel small up against them. But I never felt especially super-cool-amazeballs-look-mom-i'm-a-spartan in H5. The only time that really occurs IMO is the opening cutscene.
7. Playlist - - I should ALWAYS be able to play objective-based games if I want to. Quality Halo play is/always has been/always should be about team-based strategy. I get some people just wanna shoot people in the face all day every day. They can play slayer. I don't much care if the CTF/Assault/Oddball/KOTH/Headhunter/etc. playlists are lower populated. Offer one at all times.
I'm sure I'll think of some more. Maybe I'll go play a little and see if I think of anything else.
TTK is fine IMO, all weapons can be useful, the game is fair and (in its current state) is well balanced. Aim assist is fine - - makes the game accessible, yet there's plenty of room for skill to be rewarded.
I really don't have core gameplay issues, but there ARE features I would like.
1. Treat BTB as a valued, important asset from the outset. BTB has been the also-ran this entire cycle, and it's easily my favorite playlist. Vehicles are integral to Halo.
2. I loved Warzone for the first few months. So many wonderful toys! The variant weapons and vehicles are SO fun. Then the hardcore had WAYYYYY too many REQs built up and it got impossible to play casually without a sizable geared squad. Now, REQs made them a lot of money (supposedly funneled to HCS) and they aren't going to leave that on the table. All the 1st party games WILL have some sort of DLC/cosmetic/extra $$ hooks. In return we get the game for free. But maybe cap the total REQ spend per match perhaps? So you can have all the uber-weapons you like, but you have to ration them. You only get 100 REQ points total or something. Afterward you only get normal load outs. Something along those lines.
3. MAKE A WAY TO MATCHMAKE FOR CAMPAIGN. This made me so angry. The first few weeks, it's easy to grab whomever and run co-op missions. The campaign is very fun to play with teammates. It is NOT fun solo on higher levels (it's actually quite fun on low levels, just wrecking people). If you are going to FORCE the campaign to be co-op at all times, there MUST be an easier way for EVERY player to field a team.
Even if 343 goes back to a standard Chief-against-the-world campaign mode with co-op like H3, that online party system needs to be easier. (And while you're at it, find a way to get it in MCC somehow. That'd be AMAZING.)
4. How fun would it be to steal back some ideas from Bungie and have some sort of Halo raid? In whichever way - - Firefight, Warzone, a raid, Spartan Ops-ish idea, whatever - more grouped co-op PVE please.
5. Add a new enemy. Even if it is flood-form Promees. Not a huge fan of the flood, but can't get to a 3rd game with no new enemies. I think they know a 3rd game that is Promeathean-heavy will not work.
6. In campaign, we need a few moments where we feel AWESOME. Halo 5 didn't have them. It made sense given the scale of the guardians and the wardens - - we were supposed to feel small up against them. But I never felt especially super-cool-amazeballs-look-mom-i'm-a-spartan in H5. The only time that really occurs IMO is the opening cutscene.
7. Playlist - - I should ALWAYS be able to play objective-based games if I want to. Quality Halo play is/always has been/always should be about team-based strategy. I get some people just wanna shoot people in the face all day every day. They can play slayer. I don't much care if the CTF/Assault/Oddball/KOTH/Headhunter/etc. playlists are lower populated. Offer one at all times.
I'm sure I'll think of some more. Maybe I'll go play a little and see if I think of anything else.
That's not why H5 launched the way it did though. I just think they weren't done and they couldn't delay because Halo: MCC launched a mess and the One would have REALLY gotten slaughtered that fall without the lure of a proper Halo.
Just give me 343i crafted BTB maps at launch and I'll be happy.
No
Yes
Yes
Warzone brought in a ton of money from REQ packs. It's going to evolve, not be taken away. I still think Spartan Ops should be built out into it's on Destiny-esque mode where you build out your Spartan while doing missions or exploring a Halo ring in fireteams. Replace Warzone with a revamped Spartan Ops with cosmetic microtransactions.
No
Yes
Yes
Warzone brought in a ton of money from REQ packs. It's going to evolve, not be taken away. I still think Spartan Ops should be built out into it's on Destiny-esque mode where you build out your Spartan while doing missions or exploring a Halo ring in fireteams. Replace Warzone with a revamped Spartan Ops with cosmetic microtransactions.
Without looking at any previous comments I can guess that opinions are all over the place. Some people want no sprint and return to halo 3 "classic gameplay" and some want halo 5 style gameplay. Argument of this point has taken over this thread. An i right or am I wrong?
Halo 5 launched in October 2015. It'll have been 5 years between launches when Infinite lands.
I mean, we're already months into year 4 right now and all we've seen is an engine showpiece/concept trailer so far.
Forgive me.
Let the franchise rest ANOTHER 5 years.
Innovation always means change though and I think that is where people go a bit too far when they demand innovation. If it isn't broke then don't fix it.
1. Keep sprint, thrusters, and climbing. Increase base movement speed to match older Halo. Make sprint more like birdie running in Gears, as in make it more costly to use. Camera shake, motion blur, staggered breathing effecting aim after sprinting, lower turning radius, what ever makes it feel right. Don't just remove sprinting, but make it more of a risk vs reward. Give me more options to move around. Sprinting should be for getting into action quicker, not for backing out of a conflict because you got bested.
2. As many have said; BTB and vehicles are crucial to what makes the Halo experience unique. Don't push them back to post-launch add ons.
3. Make more weapons viable. Right now everyone mainly uses Pistol<BR<Power weapon. There is no incentive to use the variety of weapons outside of those outside of just for shits and giggles or those quirky playlists. Give me a reason to pick up the needler, or smg, or anything else besides power weapon/br in normal slayer. Whether that means bringing back dual wielding to make those lower tier weapons more viable, so be it. Weapon variety is the spice of life in Halo vs say Destiny or CoD in terms of play style without going the loadout route.
4. Either make campaign levels more open-world or make them more linear. Ideally a mix between them. Halo 5 was a middle area for a majority of the levels and it just ended up not doing anything particularly well.
5. Bring black flood, brutes, those flying drones, what ever you can get. Variety, again, in terms of enemies. Flesh out the generic prometheans.
6. Remove all REQ, cards, or any currency. Every player when they spawn, regardless of how many hours they have put into the game, should be on equal footing.
2. As many have said; BTB and vehicles are crucial to what makes the Halo experience unique. Don't push them back to post-launch add ons.
3. Make more weapons viable. Right now everyone mainly uses Pistol<BR<Power weapon. There is no incentive to use the variety of weapons outside of those outside of just for shits and giggles or those quirky playlists. Give me a reason to pick up the needler, or smg, or anything else besides power weapon/br in normal slayer. Whether that means bringing back dual wielding to make those lower tier weapons more viable, so be it. Weapon variety is the spice of life in Halo vs say Destiny or CoD in terms of play style without going the loadout route.
4. Either make campaign levels more open-world or make them more linear. Ideally a mix between them. Halo 5 was a middle area for a majority of the levels and it just ended up not doing anything particularly well.
5. Bring black flood, brutes, those flying drones, what ever you can get. Variety, again, in terms of enemies. Flesh out the generic prometheans.
6. Remove all REQ, cards, or any currency. Every player when they spawn, regardless of how many hours they have put into the game, should be on equal footing.
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no sprint and Aim down sights. fuck modern shooter fans, they ruined halo.
I don't understand the comparison. QL doesn't force you to slow down to shoot... Maps are designed around the notion that a player can move at top speed at anytime.
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