"A Message for Pokémon Video Game Fans" - by Junichi Masuda (It's Nothing) [See Staff Post for Discussion Guidelines]

[KillstealWolf]

The Wingull glide thing and the N64 Trees reminds me of the Starbucks and Water Bottle found in the last few Game of Thrones episodes, normally it would be a minor thing, but it get's blown up due to fans being annoyed by bigger, more serious problems they have with the way things turned out.

And yeah, Chart isn't complete because we only have a certain amount much information so far, obviously it's going to have a significantly greater number revealed as we get closer to launch. It's actually going to be fun to fill it in and show some of those pokemon are in (I'll make an entire unique thread if the Shinx Line is revealed). The only disappointing part will be launch day when we know for certain when certain pokemon aren't in. (Maybe some annoyed grumbles if the Kanto mons are significantly higher than the other regions and even greater than the number of Galar Mon). The only errors on it currently will be to add the Noibat Line and Togekiss, Noibat got revealed after creating the chart and Togekiss was just an error on my end. Will update the chart when a new batch of information gets revealed, along with a few more legacy pokemon.

 

[Apa504]

The "movement" took one thing which is 100% right to bitch about as it is a 100% bad call in my view to cull Pokémon. That's fine.

Then they nitpick everything to make their point, share that nitpicking with cherrypicked stuff to prove it, spread misinformation that supports their point and attack people who disprove this misinformation.

I get called a shill so much because I have explained the way things work despite the fact I think the lack of all Pokémon in the game is a bad idea and I am working to make sure fan voices are heard.

Take the Lillie model thing. People were spreading it around with other things as proof of Game Freak being incompetent. It doesn't matter to them that this is a common trick to save on load time and overhead on low memory systems and that most developers have done similar if they have developed for said devices. Same with the "laziness" for animations when I point out the sheer volume of animations that need to be made every time a new feature is implemented.

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I agree with you, in fact, I was initially posting the Bring back dex hashtag, but then people started fighting, people harrased people who didnt care, and then some guys told me to kill myself because I didnt agree with the tweets directed at Masuda. I took a step back and dont bother anymore.

 

[Serebii]

I agree with you, in fact, I was initially posting the Bring back dex hashtag, but then people started fighting, people harrased people who didnt care, and then some guys told me to kill myself because I didnt agree with the tweets directed at Masuda. I took a step back and dont bother anymore.

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I was angry and upset when the news came.

I accepted it the next day but made a promise to try and make sure fan voices are heard in the avenues available to me considering my position in the community and with TPCi/Nintendo in the hope they will implement patches because I know the realities of game development, the franchise and so forth (unlike those who claim they should delay, are lazy etc. who clearly have no knowledge of the games industry other than buying games).

It helped that we could tell how much the decision was eating at Masuda, so it made me think that they clearly didn't take this decision lightly and that something must have forced their hand, probably timing. Interviews then confirmed that.

 

[Deleted member 2340]

The "movement" took one thing which is 100% right to bitch about as it is a 100% bad call in my view to cull Pokémon. That's fine.

Then they nitpick everything to make their point, share that nitpicking with cherrypicked stuff to prove it, spread misinformation that supports their point and attack people who disprove this misinformation.

I get called a shill so much because I have explained the way things work despite the fact I think the lack of all Pokémon in the game is a bad idea and I am working to make sure fan voices are heard.

Take the Lillie model thing. People were spreading it around with other things as proof of Game Freak being incompetent. It doesn't matter to them that this is a common trick to save on load time and overhead on low memory systems and that most developers have done similar if they have developed for said devices. Same with the "laziness" for animations when I point out the sheer volume of animations that need to be made every time a new feature is implemented. And it also happened with the Wingull with me explaining that this is how Wingull bloody flies, but it doesn't fit their narrative and that one student "fixed" it by making it flap its wings so clearly I must be a shill and shat on.

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What about the Lili model trick? This is the first I'm hearing of it. I've seen the rest.

 

[Apa504]

I was angry and upset when the news came.

I accepted it the next day but made a promise to try and make sure fan voices are heard in the avenues available to me considering my position in the community and with TPCi/Nintendo in the hope they will implement patches because I know the realities of game development, the franchise and so forth (unlike those who claim they should delay, are lazy etc. who clearly have no knowledge of the games industry other than buying games).

It helped that we could tell how much the decision was eating at Masuda, so it made me think that they clearly didn't take this decision lightly and that something must have forced their hand, probably timing. Interviews then confirmed that.

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I only hope things get better, this fan base has been total suffering since the Pokemon lets go games.

 

[Cronogear]

Wailmer is in the first trailer, so Wailord is in.

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Ah, cool. It seems like most Dynamax Pokemon are similarly sized though, so I don't have much hope that Wailord will be scaled properly.

We are getting less than we got for $40 on the 3ds, not sure why so many of you are fine with that.

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Because it's a new Pokemon game, and a lot of people simply don't care about anything else.

 

[Serif]

I accepted it the next day but made a promise to try and make sure fan voices are heard in the avenues available to me considering my position in the community and with TPCi/Nintendo in the hope they will implement patches because I know the realities of game development, the franchise and so forth (unlike those who claim they should delay, are lazy etc. who clearly have no knowledge of the games industry other than buying games)

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Sounds good.

I've been pretty vocally against this, though ironically I've never brought Pokemon from previous generations to my newer playthroughs, I always start fresh.
I just know this is an option that has always been present that people are reasonable to expect. I know patches / DLC haven't really been things Game Freak's done - but this is kind of unprecedented, and we have had plenty of patches for Switch that add features.

If we reach the point in another 3 - 4 years where they've released more games with the same engine but there are still Pokemon that are not transferable from Home, I think the frustration will reach a breaking point.

 

[Arynio]

That chart is not complete or accurate

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It won't be any less depressing when the game comes out and there are 100, 200, 300 more with the yellow background and the rest crossed out, but you already know that.

 

[Phendrana]

It's not hilarious, it shows that this wasn't their plan and that it sucks.

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Except this was clearly a decision they made early in development given it almost happened in Sun and Moon, and is something they're intending to do for all future games.

It is their plan. If they didn't want to do it, they could have hired more staff years ago.

 

[Deleted member 2340]

I only hope things get better, this fan base has been total suffering since the Pokemon lets go games.

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I just learnt about Y-Comm.. I'm on cloud fucking 9!

Co-Op Raids
6v6 Battles vs Randoms ala PSS days
Breeding
Team building and training

110$ spent on both games worth it for the thousands of hours I'll get out of each game.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Less Pokémon? Sure. Less game? Jury is out on that

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Pokémon are the game. This game will have less content. This isn't debatable.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Id have preferred if breeding was gone/overhauled instead of the pokemon

 

[Serebii]

Except this was clearly a decision they made early in development given it almost happened in Sun and Moon, and is something they're intending to do for all future games.

It is their plan. If they didn't want to do it, they could have hired more staff years ago.

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Just because they considered it in SM doesn't mean it was early in development

What about the Lili model trick? This is the first I'm hearing of it. I've seen the rest.

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Basically, people found that Lillie had multiple models in the game, one for each area she appeared in with specific animations etc. for that area. People saw it as a redundancy and used it as an example of Game Freak being terrible at code when it was a trick commonly used on 3DS and other platforms so they didn't have to load everything every time

 

[Pokemaniac]

It's not hilarious, it shows that this wasn't their plan and that it sucks.

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If this wasn't their plan, why are they saying that all future games will be like this? That seems like a pretty extreme swing.

Same with Corviknight, Braviary, Butterfree etc.

Wingull does this because Wingull is meant to move like this. It just needs a turning circle and should be high up like the rest of the Flying Pokémon

It does flap its wings, we see that in attacking animations. However it's typically for adjustment in altitude

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If the Wingull were actually fairly high up and moving around like that Braviary, it wouldn't be a problem. But instead they're just sort of awkwardly hovering in place a few feet off the ground. Like, they really should just be standing if they wanted them that close to the ground. Having them hovering just sort of shows a lack of care and certainly isn't helping Game Freak's case when they're trying to convince people Pokémon were cut to improve animations.

 

[Gold Arsene]

Y-Comm is the communication feature in SWSH. It's always on and accessed with the Y-Button

In it, you see a feed of what your friends are doing and can send out trade/battle/raid requests

If you wish, you can also get notifications of what your friends are doing in-game where it shows their requests and if they caught anything

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Man those screenshots are not flattering.

 

[Fj0823]

Man those screenshots are not flattering.

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What are you talking about? You should be grateful!

 

[Leo]

That all depends on when this decision was made

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They already knew this was going to be an issue eventually YEARS ago, at least as back as 2011-2012, when they probably started developing the 3D models for XY.

There is no just excuse why they didn't plan ahead for it. If one year ago they thought they could put all Pokemon in and recently they decided it can't be done, it just shows that they either didn't plan for it or were incompetent to prepare for it even though they had about 8 years of advance. Money sure wasn't a problem. It's is really, REALLY difficult for me to accept that they tried everything they could all this time to make it happen and just couldn't. The way I see it, it's something they would like to have done, but (either GF or TPC as a whole) weren't willing to spend the money/time on restructuring to make it happen.

The fact that they have gone out of their way to say that this is how it's gonna be in future games (and haven't said a thing about patching) further proves that time isn't the issue, they simply can't be bothered because they know the game will sell anyway. Had they had anything else in mind they would say something along the lines of trying to revert the situation in any form at least in future games, but no, they are telling us that this is what we are getting period.

Pokémon is now clearly a commercial franchise first and foremost, it gets more and more obvious that the quality and value of the games aren't the priority over sales, putting out games annually, alligning releases with other media, maximizing profit, etc. I'm not saying that it has always been like that, but that's obviously how it is now, and it's gonna get harder and harder to argue against it.

 

[battleborn27]

- Ugly graphics
- Recycled models and animations
- More than half Pokemon cut
- Offensive producers that think the fans are dumb

Hard pass for me

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

- More than half Pokemon cut

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since when?

 

[Serebii]

since when?

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Since we're spreading misinformation to prove our point.

This is the sort of thing I've been talking about. People spread misinformation as fact and it spreads and spreads. I saw it with all these infographics people were sharing. I called the person out on that and he started some BS against me acting like I never told him what was wrong with it despite showing the problems multiple times.

 

[battleborn27]

since when?

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Oh so you're one of those that think only like 50 Pokemon ill be cut? Shocking!

 

[Serebii]

Oh so you're one of those that think only like 50 Pokemon ill be cut? Shocking!

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No, he's not.

He just doesn't share misinformation. We don't know how many are cut and saying "more than half" is stating it as a fact and thus is sharing misinformation

 

[Glio]

"Offensive producers", I knew that this thread would reach places but not these.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Oh so you're one of those that think only like 50 Pokemon ill be cut? Shocking!

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At least the removed features meme image had things that actually happened. This is just lying.

 

[--R]

"Offensive producers", I knew that this thread would reach places but not these.

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And by offensive they mean "They didn't do what I wanted them to do". It's so dumb.

 

[brinstar]

"Offensive producers", I knew that this thread would reach places but not these.

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Earlier I saw someone compare non-angry fans to eating feces, so that's about the level of discourse we're at these days

 

[Glio]

And by offensive they mean "They didn't do what I wanted them to do". It's so dumb.

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I recently saw on Twitter a person comparing Masuda with someone who mistreats his wife. The fandom is crazy.

 

[Serebii]

I recently got harassment about this through a comment on one of my Mario Maker 2 stages.

Some responded to one of the hosts of one of Japan's Pokémon variety TV shows with the whole thing.

People are taking things too far.

 

[Apa504]

I recently saw on Twitter a person comparing Masuda with someone who mistreats his wife. The fandom is crazy.

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There are versions of the holocaust poem but with the Dex issue, this thing is crossing the line.

 

[ferroseed168]

What are you talking about? You should be grateful!

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Yup we should all be grateful we're getting any games at all. Gamefreak are doing us all such a favor releasing games that will sell 15 million copies

 

[Kirbivore]

More than half would basically be more than 405 with gen 7 numbers, and an unknown variable with current gen.

I wouldnt be surprised if he stated as fact despite not knowing is due to being confident based on how many currently exists. In actually, even considering past games, the chances of it being true is a coin toss, and of that is inflated by remakes no less.

 

[Glio]

There are versions of the holocaust poem but with the Dex issue, this thing is crossing the line.

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Yes, I mean, not having all the Pokémon sucks, we can not deny it, but the image they are giving from outside is terrifying.

 

[Apa504]

More than half would basically be more than 405 with gen 7 numbers, and an unknown variable with current gen.

I wouldnt be surprised if he stated as fact despite not knowing is due to being confident based on how many currently exists. In actually, even considering past games, the chances of it being true is a coin toss, and of that is inflated by remakes no less.

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Yeah, like people saying No open areas, and No pokemon in the overworld were stating a fact.

 

[PaultheNerd]

The simple fact that people are not treating Masuda and the Pokemon team as if they are actual people should have been the first red flag, it seriously delegitimizes and undermines the collective's effort.

It was also eye-rolling to see a random SS critique reply on a tweet that had 0% to do with anything Pokemon or even video game related. Like, clearly at that point it's simply people seeking attention by joining in on the minority bandwagon,

 

[Kirbivore]

Yeah, like people saying No open areas, and No pokemon in the overworld were stating a fact.

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That's on GF to be more upfront on that information.

 

[Serebii]

That's on GF to be more upfront on that information.

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It's almost as if it's a reveal cycle that reveals more and more content as the launch nears.

Come on now.

It's on those people for saying those things outright when they shouldn't have

 

[Glio]

Yeah, like people saying No open areas, and No pokemon in the overworld were stating a fact.

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Remember when Breath of the Wild did not have towns.

 

[battleborn27]

No Skiddo/Gogoat no buy

1st time I'm skipping a Pokemon game

 

[Hercule]

I recently got harassment about this through a comment on one of my Mario Maker 2 stages.

Some responded to one of the hosts of one of Japan's Pokémon variety TV shows with the whole thing.

People are taking things too far.

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Both sides have people who deals in extremes, I have been called slurs and other not so nice things only for posting the #

 

[Apa504]

That's on GF to be more upfront on that information.

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Yeah, how dare they not showing us the whole game now, damn GF !!!

Remember when Breath of the Wild did not have towns.

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Oh man, how could I forget it, along with Mario being an auto runner.

 

[Kirbivore]

It's almost as if it's a reveal cycle that reveals more and more content as the launch nears.

Come on now.

It's on those people for saying those things outright when they shouldn't have

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Please. Most of the people who were upset at no Overworld Pokemon were also people who liked that Let's Go had it.

 

[Merc_]

Remember when Breath of the Wild did not have towns.

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If they don't show it as soon as the game is announced, it's not there. It's funny because people will also complain when too much about a game is revealed.

 

[battleborn27]

Both sides have people who deals in extremes, I have been called slurs and other not so nice things only for posting the #

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Yeah, it's funny seeing these fans calling out the "haters" (most of which are actual fans that are sick of GameFreak's BS) but turn a blind eye at the obsessed fans calling racial slurs and death threats on people that aren't OK with what the series is turning into

 

[Leo]

Same with Corviknight, Braviary, Butterfree etc.

Wingull does this because Wingull is meant to move like this. It just needs a turning circle and should be high up like the rest of the Flying Pokémon

It does flap its wings, we see that in attacking animations. However it's typically for adjustment in altitude

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This discussion is ridiculous. The problem with Wingull isn't Wingull per se, it is that Wingull is an indicative of the overall quality of the game's animations because it is a flying mon whose animation is identical to XY's and thus doesn't look good, and there are several other Pokemon that might share the same issue if they are in the game. This discussion turned silly because people defending it are purposefully acting shortsighted to make it look like the complaints are about one single animation in the game, when it's not.

You say that Wingull flies like this, alright, but the very video you posted shows that there are other Pokemon that were animated like this because it was their existing animation for XY's sky battles. You just showed that, only in gen 3, there are several flying Pokemon like Tropius, Taillow, Swellow, and Salamence that will probably have the same animation problem if they are in the game. THAT is the problem, that they apparently didn't update the walking animations to the new game, when many of them (Wingull being one example) won't look appropriate in the game (even though they claimed to have prioritized animations as a reason for cutting Pokemon).

I could go through the trouble of posting every other Pokemon whose walking animation is brought straight from XY and just shows them gliding with straightened wings, but I won't because you know much more about Pokemon than me and know it's true. Will they get updated on the final game? Maybe, we don't know, but Wingull is one evidence so far that shows us otherwise.

Also, if being a fantasy creature that by definition defies the laws of physics is a legit excuse for it to have bad animation, let's just have every monster in every RPG float around with two or three frames. They don't need to behave realistically, they spit fire, c'mon.

 

[udivision]

It's all just one big dumb fandom any way.

But who is the holiest among them? Let's find out.

 

[Horohorohoro]

I love how some people in this thread are using the most extreme examples of people who are mad about this and are using it to throw abuse at the developers to shit on people who doesn't think it's a good idea and are simply no longer interested in the game because of it and expressing their distaste in a tasteful manner.

 

[AlexFlame116]

That chart is not complete or accurate

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I'm sorry but the fact that we need a chart at all is the problem. I know that it isn't complete. It bothers me a lot that we have to wait to find out.

 

[Serebii]

This discussion is ridiculous. The problem with Wingull isn't Wingull per se, it is that Wingull is an indicative of the overall quality of the game's animations because it is a flying mon whose animation is identical to XY's and thus doesn't look good, and there are several other Pokemon that might share the same issue if they are in the game. This discussion turned silly because people defending it are purposefully acting shortsighted to make it look like the complaints are about one single animation in the game, when it's not.

You say that Wingull flies like this, alright, but the very video you posted shows that there are other Pokemon that were animated like this because it was their existing animation for XY's sky battles. You just showed that, only in gen 3, there are several flying Pokemon like Tropius, Taillow, Swellow, and Salamence that will probably have the same animation problem if they are in the game. THAT is the problem, that they apparently didn't update the walking animations to the new game, when many of them (Wingull being one example) won't look appropriate in the game (even though they claimed to have prioritized animations as a reason for cutting Pokemon).

I could go through the trouble of posting every other Pokemon whose walking animation is brought straight from XY and just shows them gliding with straightened wings, but I won't because you know much more about Pokemon than me and know it's true. Will they get updated on the final game? Maybe, we don't know, but Wingull is one evidence so far that shows us otherwise.

Also, if being a fantasy creature that by definition defies the laws of physics is a legit excuse for it to have bad animation, let's just have every monster in every RPG float around with two or three frames. They don't need to behave realistically, they spit fire, c'mon.

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Those animations are their walking animations, not the Sky Battle animations and Sky Battles didn't use any walking animations....

However, Wingull has flown like this in the anime and all other elements and it's even in the Pokédex that it struggles to flap its wings while flying.

 

[battleborn27]

I love how some people in this thread are using the most extreme examples of people who are mad about this and are using it to throw abuse at the developers to shit on people who doesn't think it's a good idea and are simply no longer interested in the game because of it and expressing their distaste in a tasteful manner.

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Especially when the Pokemon fanbase consists of some of gaming's biggest loons and are sending death threats to anyone voicing their opinion

 

[Horohorohoro]

Those animations are their walking animations, not the Sky Battle animations and Sky Battles didn't use any walking animations....

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I really don't know why you're acting like Wingull is the only issue. It's indicative of other issues the game has, that it's cutting corners. You said yourself that Wingull needs a turning animation and to be higher. Those are the EXACT same issues everyone has with those Wingull animations, but for some reason so many people are acting obtuse and like everyone is just mad because it doesn't flap its wings when gliding in a straight line.