You see I didn't know ESPN is off the table.
I think wrestling would fit MTV for Viacom, who at the very least has had wrestling on their channels in the last five years.
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All Elite Wrestling announced; bankrolled by Tony Khan, son of Jacksonville Jaguars and Fullham FC owner Shahid Khan
- Thread starter Serene
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You see I didn't know ESPN is off the table.
I think wrestling would fit MTV for Viacom, who at the very least has had wrestling on their channels in the last five years.
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Viacom has pivoted hard away from sports. Hell, Bellator, which is literally owned by Viacom, doesn't make it on Paramount all that often.
The regime that had TNA on their channels isn't there anymore.
Watch the Attitude Era today. It's actually really fucking awful with edgy humor, bra and panties matches, and the very occasional Stone Cold, Rock, and HHH great match.
Yup. Same with HHH after his first quad injury.
The wrestling was also not very good. Stone Cold post-injury was not really more than an average wrestler.
Tbh, This isn't actually a consensus opinion of the AE, I can pick a random episode of that era and I won't see a bra match more than I would.
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Judging the AE by current standards is dumb. It was the product it needed to be for the time it existed in. Context matters. It wouldn't work in 2019 but a host of other popular shit twenty years ago wouldn't either. Doesn't mean all those things are "secretly bad", it just means that standards and pop culture has changed.
just tell everyone who mentioned it that they're dumb, serene. >:(
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I'm not saying you as a person are dumb. lol
I'm saying that the practice is silly.
It's not even a matter of judging it by a modern lens. All The AE did was rip off ECW with way shittier wrestling. The product just wasn't good but because Heyman didn't have the money Vince did WWF exploded while actively stealing ideas, storylines, and talent from ECW.
I think it's fair to wonder how Cody/Bucks will do as the head guys and if they'll just book them themselves as the main guys over everyone, but I think that rally itself should ease some concerns, even if it was a super small sample. I think SCU/Brit Baker/PAC/Hangman/Joey/MJF and obviously Jericho all got a ton of shine, so I think that'd follow through with the actual shows too. It won't just be the BTE gang over everyone. Though I acknowledge that it's definitely not improper to wonder about it.
I'd also hope Tony Khan, as the longtime smark he is would know the things that hurt WCW/TNA in terms of talent/ego/self-interet and would avoid those sort of mistakes, but who really knows. We can only hope.
I'd also hope Tony Khan, as the longtime smark he is would know the things that hurt WCW/TNA in terms of talent/ego/self-interet and would avoid those sort of mistakes, but who really knows. We can only hope.
It's pretty disingenuous to say people didn't switch to WWF because the product they put out was white hot, because it was. Why you're trying to retcon it because it didn't age well is beyond me.
This is like arguing nu-metal wasn't popular, it was just that Grunge died with Cobain and people just randomly switched over to the lesser next thing.
This is like arguing nu-metal wasn't popular, it was just that Grunge died with Cobain and people just randomly switched over to the lesser next thing.
There's a difference between saying people moved to WWF because it was white hot and people moved because WWF became a better product.
I realize that's all subjective, and yes the AE is a product of it's time. But you can't tell me with a straight face that the product was objectively better because of competition from WCW.
You can say that the product was changed because of influences from WCW and them winning the ratings war. Mostly because it literally was.
And yes, ECW had an influence as well, on both shows, and vice versa.
But Vince rebooting Raw to appeal to a more edgy crowd was objectively a response to WCW.
If they get TBS or TNT with that rumored 100M/yr deal which is like twice what I was speculating about then holy shit. That would be a great thing for wrestling and I don't get this stupid bullshit of people attacking the idea of another promotion with a lot of money behind it.
The best thing about the Attitude Era that's really missing from the current product is that every person on the card mattered. No matter who you were you had some sort of storyline that the fans cared about. I'm not saying these storylines were amazing but almost everyone was over.
obviously elements of the attitude era were products of its time. it's one of the most stereotypical late 90s pieces of media I could think of, and lots of it doesn't hold up today.
that being said, there was a legit party atmosphere every monday night. the crowd being HOT for everything created excitement that allowed you to forgive some of the more cringeworthy stuff. the looming presence of stone cold steve austin made everything feel better. a lot of the austin/vince stuff still holds up, not to mention rock in his prime, foley killing it at #3, hhh before we got sick of him... 1997 is still the best year of WWF tv ever, and that was before attitude era proper.
there is none of that today. there is certainly no party atmosphere at raw anymore, that has shifted to the new japan USA shows, the all ins, the joey janelas spring breaks, and even the nxt takeovers. it's just sterile boring garbage, and when that's the tone, even seth rollins going out and having a 4* match doesn't feel special.
I went back a couple years ago to watch every week of raw from the beginning of 1997 all the way to mania 17 and I had a fucking blast. it's still a lot of fun to watch for those reasons I mentioned above.
Cody, the Bucks and Kenny job out ALL the time. they don't give a shit, it's fucking fake. they know they're talented enough to job and then get back over the next match, flair/rock style. (ok not cody but he's still ok with jobbing). the old timer mentality of "never doing a job, having to look strong, booking themselves to go over" does not seem to be present here with this core of guys.
And if Being The Elite is anything to go by, these guys are going to have no problem creating stars. That show has gotten so many performers ridiculously over.
that being said, there was a legit party atmosphere every monday night. the crowd being HOT for everything created excitement that allowed you to forgive some of the more cringeworthy stuff. the looming presence of stone cold steve austin made everything feel better. a lot of the austin/vince stuff still holds up, not to mention rock in his prime, foley killing it at #3, hhh before we got sick of him... 1997 is still the best year of WWF tv ever, and that was before attitude era proper.
there is none of that today. there is certainly no party atmosphere at raw anymore, that has shifted to the new japan USA shows, the all ins, the joey janelas spring breaks, and even the nxt takeovers. it's just sterile boring garbage, and when that's the tone, even seth rollins going out and having a 4* match doesn't feel special.
I went back a couple years ago to watch every week of raw from the beginning of 1997 all the way to mania 17 and I had a fucking blast. it's still a lot of fun to watch for those reasons I mentioned above.
Cody, the Bucks and Kenny job out ALL the time. they don't give a shit, it's fucking fake. they know they're talented enough to job and then get back over the next match, flair/rock style. (ok not cody but he's still ok with jobbing). the old timer mentality of "never doing a job, having to look strong, booking themselves to go over" does not seem to be present here with this core of guys.
And if Being The Elite is anything to go by, these guys are going to have no problem creating stars. That show has gotten so many performers ridiculously over.
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Also just want to point out the comedy of implying any of them have a problem with losing coming right off their most recent show where all of them lost clean in one night
I'd say Attitude Era WWE had a fantastic main event scene combined with a ratshit mid and lower card and a lot of gross shit that appealed to the lowest common denominator. Whereas WCW had an amazing mid and lower card, combined with a main event scene that ranged from decent (when Sting was chasing and Goldberg was dominating) to ratshit (after they fucked up Sting and Goldberg).
The biggest thing was spontaneity or at least the illusion of it and Vince wasn't an overbearing micromanager with a writers room of 30-40 writing a show to an extremely out of touch senior citizen. He actually trusted talent and gave them a platform to become stars.
This. You can't get anything that feels genuine when it's so scripted and scripted in a way that is obviously out of touch with the audience. No one gets big because no one can make a strong enough connection in those types of stories and matches.
The best WWE era was Ruthless Aggression when Eddie, Kurt, and he who shall not be named were at the top of the card. That may be the WCW shill in me, though. I would take today's lineup over the Attitude Era any day of the week.
SCU and Flip got themselves over- BTE made SCU faces. I think AEW can succeed if they go to a NJPW-style sliding face/heel scale, but I don't think they'd be capable of doing strict heels/strict faces the way most American wrestling companies work. I do think the sliding scale is what the AEW fanbase is going to want though, partially because they're used to it, and partially because it gives each of them their favorite faction. NJPW has Suzuki-Gun fans, LIJ fans (think a majority of them are fujoshi and ship the LIJ members like they're RWBY fans ^_^), BC fans, Tanahashi fans, and for some reason CHAOS fans ^_^.
The big concern I have is how effective they can be as heels. They were willing to cheer Cody against Juice of all people, and Juice is about as wholesome a babyface there is without being obnoxious in any way.
I think booking the Elite as heels is a very uphill battle. With the exception of the Cody vs Omega program (which has already been done, though I can see them going there again), they're going to have to stock up on heels. And not heels that are so awesome at being heels that the fans cheer. Heel ass heels.
Basically the need to book Big Cass.
Or MJF.
However, to be totally honest, I hope the first champions is Daniels. I know he's quite old and Hangman Page would be a better start but, it would be a nice tribute to the carrer of a man who achieved (in my opinion) way less of what he deserved title wise (why they never put the world championship around his waist in tna is epitome of what a clusterfuck that company was most of the time)
You know, I hadn't even considered the possibility of a new competitor in the wrestling video game landscape as well until just now.
We've been dying to have alternatives in the wrestling game market, and it's honestly a great way to have the company get noticed by non-fans if the game turns out to be good (see WCW vs. nWo World Tour and WCW/nWo Revenge as examples, as a lot of non-wrestling fans were attracted to those games).
We've been dying to have alternatives in the wrestling game market, and it's honestly a great way to have the company get noticed by non-fans if the game turns out to be good (see WCW vs. nWo World Tour and WCW/nWo Revenge as examples, as a lot of non-wrestling fans were attracted to those games).
SCU themselves yes, Flip... fuck no, that dude is over because The Elite gave him the shine and air time
I hope that company that bought all of Acclaims old shit gets the license and releases a re=skinned WarZone.
Flip really is kinda raw- he was probably the worst guy in BOSJ last year, but he is a good sympathetic babyface judging from what I saw of his Bully Ray feud in ROH. He's under ROH contract for I think 18 more months so he won't be in AEW for a good while. He's in a good position that he can wait it out, improve, do another BOSJ.
Oh he's a made man now, but he'd have never gotten the attention he has without The Elite taking a shine to him and boosting his career far beyond his talent level specifically as a character
Just remember though...Trevor Lee is still a free agent.
Yeah...please never bring him onboard if he plans to sell like that again on the air lol.
You've been saved
I rewatched all of Attitude era a few years back, and enjoyed the hell out of it.
Actual good wrestling matches on RAW before late 1999? One. Terry Funk versus Mick Foley when McMahon was getting him to sell out/buy in. That match is excellent, way better than most PPV matches.
A match on raw has to be between two really awful workers these days to be something that wouldn't be considered world class in ring back in the late 90's. Technically the scene has changed so much since then. It's as different a world is physically as the the atmosphere is between Attitude era and early 80's wrestling.
They post one .gif, as if every wrestler should be defined by one bad giffable moment.
What's WWE's end game with a main roster that's 2x larger than it needs to be, signing everyone under the sun?
They can push who they want but not have to worry about others making talent without them
My knowledge of him is based off the times I saw him in PWG and that did seem to be his finisher. Can't say if he used it in TNA.
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