Andrew Yang Raises $10 Million, in a Display of Fundraising Strength

I Am Second

Member
Mar 30, 2019
26
Record time to weaponize that dude. Well done.

But you're right the world would be better if unrepentant racists suffered no consequences and instead get to keep high profile entertainment jobs and get their hands held and coddled by the people they shit on, and that's why Yang should be President because he has the strength to do the hard job of helping white racists keep their jobs and forgive them for being racist without them even having to apologize or anything... because Racists' Jobs Matter
Or it could be that Yang, like many others, discovered forgiveness frees individuals from the shackles of hate.

"...the faculty we have for receiving forgiveness and the faculty we have for granting forgiveness are one and the same thing. If we open the one we shall open the other. If we slam the door on the one, we slam the door on the other... [Forgiveness] releases not only the person who is being forgiven but the person who is doing the forgiving. We can probably all think of examples of this. When I forgive you for treading on my toe, I release you from any burden of guilt, any sense that I might still be angry with you when we meet tomorrow, or that I will treat you differently in the future or try to get even with you. But I also release myself from having to go to bed cross, from having to toss and turn wondering how to gain my revenge. When we go up the scale from treading on toes to far more serious offenses, forgiveness can mean not only that I release you from the threat of my anger and its consequences, but also that I avoid having the rest of my life consumed with anger, bitterness and resentment." (Scholar N.T. Wright)
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,228
Or it could be that, Yang, like many others, discovered forgiveness frees them from the shackles of hate.

"...the faculty we have for receiving forgiveness and the faculty we have for granting forgiveness are one and the same thing. If we open the one we shall open the other. If we slam the door on the one, we slam the door on the other... [Forgiveness] releases not only the person who is being forgiven but the person who is doing the forgiving. We can probably all think of examples of this. When I forgive you for treading on my toe, I release you from any burden of guilt, any sense that I might still be angry with you when we meet tomorrow, or that I will treat you differently in the future or try to get even with you. But I also release myself from having to go to bed cross, from having to toss and turn wondering how to gain my revenge. When we go up the scale from treading on toes to far more serious offenses, forgiveness can mean not only that I release you from the threat of my anger and its consequences, but also that I avoid having the rest of my life consumed with anger, bitterness and resentment." (Scholar N.T. Wright)
Oh please.

The opposite of unconditional unearned forgiveness is not hate

Yang did this because his target audience is all the 4chan idiots.
 
Oct 28, 2017
599
I mean, if it's about the race of the poster, I am an Asian who is not a fan of how Yang handled the SNL situation. If he wanted to say the same thing, he could and should have done so by leading with a call for an apology or something else instead of firing, because the result is that people end up viewing it as him siding with the comedian.

The Fox News angle is definitely dumb though. Even Bernie goes on Fox, and the Tucker appearances specifically were back in like May when literally nobody else would give Yang the time of day.
I’m not saying that he handled it perfectly whatsoever, but to treat it as it were some disqualifying offense is absurd.

Forgiveness and reaching across the aisle is the most productive way to bring people to your side. See Daryl Davis.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,228
I’m not saying that he handled it perfectly whatsoever, but to treat it as it were some disqualifying offense is absurd.

Forgiveness and reaching across the aisle is the most productive way to bring people to your side. See Daryl Davis.
Hahahaha

Hahahaha

Daryl Davis didn't change shit, they all stayed racist, many ended up in Charlottesville. Where Davis then tried to be a character witness so they wouldn't go to jail.

Daryl Davis has more animosity for BLM than white supremacists whom he calls friends. So I guess you're right, they reached across and brought Davis closer to their side!

Davis accomplished exactly fuck and all besides becoming a meme to try and tsk tak people
 

NoName999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,811
Why am I not surprised that white progressives are stabbing for a minority that wants to ignore social justice?
 

rickyson33

Member
Nov 23, 2017
681
People can spend their money however they want - it's their money. But you have to know when donating to some of these candidates that you're literally throwing your money away. If you have that kind of disposable income, why not donate it somewhere where it matters? $10m is a lot of money, and in this case, it may as well have been set fire to.
depends how you look at it really,if you look at it as a binary becoming president or nothing thing then sure they don't have a realistic chance of even coming close to that mark

but for example say you care about UBI,Yang is the only one in the race talking about it so funding him to keep him in the race still does something to raise awareness for the concept,especially before he eventually stops making the debates
 

Zetetica

Member
Jan 5, 2019
104
I’m not saying that he handled it perfectly whatsoever, but to treat it as it were some disqualifying offense is absurd.

Forgiveness and reaching across the aisle is the most productive way to bring people to your side. See Daryl Davis.
I agree that it's not disqualifying. Heck, I support him as a candidate despite thinking he was in the wrong there. I do think it's fair to say that what he did there was wrong or defending a racist, which I assume was the comment you were replying to, since you didn't quote any. But yeah, especially in the main thread for this event there were definitely some people who went too far and even posted some really vicious racist attacks against him.

Why am I not surprised that white progressives are stabbing for a minority that wants to ignore social justice?
Probably because you know so little about him that you describe him as a candidate who wants to ignore social justice.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,394
This forum is sleeping on Yang very hard
Some aren't sleeping. Those who argue he is the meme candidate have lobotomized themselves and haven't taken 1 second to look at their own personal welfare and how much Yang is trying to address their problems.

Honestly surprised to see Williamson getting more wind in her financial sales but unlike Yang her poll numbers aren't improving so that's a little bit of money being wasted.
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,112
I think coddling racists and being a 4chan candidate is anthetical to human progress
Being a 4chan candidate is not disqualifying. He didn't choose them. They chose him because of UBI. That's a poor argument. If 4chan all of a sudden decided to support Warren, would that make her bad all of a sudden? No, it's a poor argument.
 
Oct 28, 2017
599
Hahahaha

Hahahaha

Daryl Davis didn't change shit, they all stayed racist, many ended up in Charlottesville. Where Davis then tried to be a character witness so they wouldn't go to jail.

Daryl Davis has more animosity for BLM than white supremacists whom he calls friends. So I guess you're right, they reached across and brought Davis closer to their side!

Davis accomplished exactly fuck and all besides becoming a meme to try and tsk tak people
Do you honesty think that putting “hahahaha” like you’re laughing at my stupidity at the beginning of your posts is convincing to anyone whatsoever? It isn’t and it exemplifies just how you don’t understand basic human psychology.

Literally every outlet reporting on Daryl Davis knows what good he’s done in the world except for far left antifa extremists who share your toxic world view. He’s helped over 200 people, if a handful of them were at Charlottesville, that’s still 190+ people that weren’t.

And if you’re even remotely familiar with history, it’s not like he is the only example. Virtually every great leader has preached forgiveness and unity. You don’t win hearts and minds by laughing at the people you are trying to convince.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,394
Anyone selling a flat 1K as a suitable replacement for all welfare is a fucko and should not be taken seriously as a candidate. The more I hear about this guy the less I like him.
Well good thing Yang never said that. You get the 12k per year and access to social programs. Who is this fucko and how well are they polling?
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,394
Or maybe Yang is polling at 2-3% nationally and people are giving him the appropriate amount of attention given that fact?
Ever consider that as a possibility, instead of yet another “they’re trying to hold my candidate back” conspiracy theory?

Yang gets hate and directful negative comments that Booker never gets and is the opposite of the praise Pete gets and is more critical of him than Harris despite her known flaws and better positioning.
 
Dec 24, 2017
1,815
Andrew Yang is a basically a white centrist who presents as Asian and is a greater threat to the progression of Asian-Americans than the upfront roadblocks that the right presents.

I very much dislike the campaign Andrew Yang is running and how he is willing to co-opt us to appease those seek to continually use our community as a wedge against other targeted communities and see us as their “pet” minorities.

He represents a colonized view of Asian-Americans which places a biased favoritism towards East Asians, and the assumption that our goals are adjacent to those of right wing American. While our brown sisters and brothers are still refugees, still underserved, still marginalized and still burdened by the model minority stereotypes.

Andrew Yang is counterproductive to the progression of the Asian-American agenda that seeks to lift our people up and move us forward without doing harm or co-opting the path and opportunities of our allies.

Andrew Yang is the white moderate Dr. King warned us about.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,407
a sunken pirate ship
Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) is based on earned work credits. Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a means-tested program. You can collect both SSDI and $1,000 a month. Most people who are legally disabled receive both SSDI and SSI. Under the universal basic income, those who are legally disabled would have a choice between collecting SSDI and the $1,000, or collecting SSDI and SSI, whichever is more generous.
Even some people who receive more than $1,000 a month in SSI would choose to take the Freedom Dividend because it has no preconditions. Basic income removes these requirements and guarantees an income, regardless of other factors.

Oh my God that last paragraph. That is fucking bullshit and everyone should know it. Just stop fucking means testing this shit instead, and let people get their goddamn entitlements. Fuck.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,394
It's pretty obviously racism, at least in part.
Posts like this one

There definitely seems to be a lot of diet racism from Baccus and TrailerParkRanger but they don't represent the majority of negativity which seems to be rooted in fear of his appeal with alt right crowd who at times also had interest in Bernie when the only other choices was establishment candidates and Bernie.


They don't like it at all that they could potentially share a common interest.
 

Sianos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,562
I think coddling racists and being a 4chan candidate is anthetical to human progress
the man gave a speech to an asian-american advocacy group talking about how asians are going to be a prime target of the next generation of white male mass shooters

"And who is going to be the boogeyman of the next 10 to 20 years? Who's going to be the great rival to the United States in the eyes of American society? China, that's right. And so, what do you think the attitude is going to be over time for the shrinking, insecure white majority that's losing their jobs for, let's say, Chinese Americans or Asian Americans? I don't — l personally — I said to a group at Harvard, I think we're one generation away from falling into the same camps as that the Jews who were attacked in a synagogue in Pittsburgh like just a couple months. So we're probably one generation away from an American shooting up a bunch of Asians saying like, damn the Chinese, because there's a giant Cold War even more with China. That is the great danger that I fear that my children are going to grow up in." - Andrew Yang

the cynic on me says Yang is aiming more for "pacifying" as opposed to "coddling" the threat of white extremism

i don't necessarily think he's wrong about that, but i also don't think that's the whole picture as well and that he would do well to consider more than just economic justice
 
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wandering

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,475
Pacific Northwest
Andrew Yang is a basically a white centrist who presents as Asian and is a greater threat to the progression of Asian-Americans than the upfront roadblocks that the right presents.

I very much dislike the campaign Andrew Yang is running and how he is willing to co-opt us to appease those seek to continually use our community as a wedge against other targeted communities and see us as their “pet” minorities.

He represents a colonized view of Asian-Americans which places a biased favoritism towards East Asians, and the assumption that our goals are adjacent to those of right wing American. While our brown sisters and brothers are still refugees, still underserved, still marginalized and still burdened by the model minority stereotypes.

Andrew Yang is counterproductive to the progression of the Asian-American agenda that seeks to lift our people up and move us forward without doing harm or co-opting the path and opportunities of our allies.

Andrew Yang is the white moderate Dr. King warned us about.
Okay but people who aren’t as educated on topics of social justice and are drawn to him because of his utopic promises or because they identify with him as Asian Americans are in no way worse than people who buy into right-wing nationalism wholesale.

Like, yeah, he sucks, but you’re being weirdly performative about it.
 

Sianos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,562
why do people think a universal jobs guarantee is more progressive than a universal basic income?
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,112
Andrew Yang is a basically a white centrist who presents as Asian and is a greater threat to the progression of Asian-Americans than the upfront roadblocks that the right presents.

I very much dislike the campaign Andrew Yang is running and how he is willing to co-opt us to appease those seek to continually use our community as a wedge against other targeted communities and see us as their “pet” minorities.

He represents a colonized view of Asian-Americans which places a biased favoritism towards East Asians, and the assumption that our goals are adjacent to those of right wing American. While our brown sisters and brothers are still refugees, still underserved, still marginalized and still burdened by the model minority stereotypes.

Andrew Yang is counterproductive to the progression of the Asian-American agenda that seeks to lift our people up and move us forward without doing harm or co-opting the path and opportunities of our allies.

Andrew Yang is the white moderate Dr. King warned us about.
Based on what?
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,112
why do people think a universal jobs guarantee is more progressive than a universal basic income?
Because there are some progressives who simply regurgitate other progressives. In what world is universal basic income, not a social safety net? This is the fundamental difference that causes people to view it in a negative way. They think that because it is not a social safety net, while welfare is, that if people choose to go on UBI vs welfare, that it erodes the social safety net. Nevermind the fact that the UBI social safety net is a wider net and thus a greater wealth transfer to the poor. They also don't like the idea of VAT, which is actually a regressive tax, but when coupled with UBI, it is not fair to simply conclude that it transfers wealth away from the poor.
 

Zetetica

Member
Jan 5, 2019
104
There definitely seems to be a lot of diet racism from Baccus and TrailerParkRanger but they don't represent the majority of negativity which seems to be rooted in fear of his appeal with alt right crowd who at times also had interest in Bernie when the only other choices was establishment candidates and Bernie.


They don't like it at all that they could potentially share a common interest.
Sure, I do think there is some genuine paranoia on the left instilled by the treadmill of alt-right dogwhistles stoking the fear that the enemy knows something you don't. That could explain why people call Yang some things, like a closet libertarian. Getting from there to techbro or venture capitalist requires a lot more leaps. As a recipient of the exact same kind of racism, it's hard for me to call it anything else when it so closely matches my own experience.

I think the common interest thing is overblown, myself. The party line on this one is plausible enough to me. Yang had a very widely listened podcast on Joe Rogan when Trump was having a bad week and lucked into a pretty shitty group of early adopters. Most people don't know much about him and if they listen to two hours of Yang making his case personally they'd be for the guy too.
There's also a decent contingent of people who think "the world's going to shit anyway, just give me 1000 bucks a month" and honestly, I respect that.


Andrew Yang is a basically a white centrist who presents as Asian and is a greater threat to the progression of Asian-Americans than the upfront roadblocks that the right presents.

I very much dislike the campaign Andrew Yang is running and how he is willing to co-opt us to appease those seek to continually use our community as a wedge against other targeted communities and see us as their “pet” minorities.

He represents a colonized view of Asian-Americans which places a biased favoritism towards East Asians, and the assumption that our goals are adjacent to those of right wing American. While our brown sisters and brothers are still refugees, still underserved, still marginalized and still burdened by the model minority stereotypes.

Andrew Yang is counterproductive to the progression of the Asian-American agenda that seeks to lift our people up and move us forward without doing harm or co-opting the path and opportunities of our allies.

Andrew Yang is the white moderate Dr. King warned us about.
Is this solely based on the SNL thing? If you look at his actual policy proposals, they do a lot more for racial justice than basically any other candidate save Marianne. As far as I know, he is the furthest left when it comes to ending the war on drugs (go full Portugal), he is basically tied for most pro-immigration, which is notable when many dems can barely even said to be pro-immigration at all, and UBI is of course a huge equalizer which only he and Marianne support. And that's not even going into the large number of smaller proposals or the immeasurable impact of having a visible minority as the leader of the country.
 
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Sianos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,562
Because there are some progressives who simply regurgitate other progressives. In what world is universal basic income, not a social safety net? This is the fundamental difference that causes people to view it in a negative way. They think that because it is not a social safety net, while welfare is, that if people choose to go on UBI vs welfare, that it erodes the social safety net. Nevermind the fact that the UBI social safety net is a wider net and thus a greater wealth transfer to the poor. They also don't like the idea of VAT, which is actually a regressive tax, but when coupled with UBI, it is not fair to simply conclude that it transfers wealth away from the poor.
the explosion in popularity of machine learning has opened my eyes to a fundamental weakness of welfare programs - the human desire to exclude others who they deem undeserving for the flimsiest of reasons

machine learning algorithms are already being used for hiring - one particularly concerning case was trained using primarily "language patterns, word choice, and tone of voice"... it should be pretty obvious what the intent is there

in the future, they would make welfare programs even more byzantine to navigate as bigots stack the deck against vulnerable people in invisible ways hidden behind the guise of a technology most people do not understand and hence unduly mythologize

there must at the bare minimum be a universal safety net that meets a person's basic needs, or else vulnerable people will always be targeted and excluded
 
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mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,394
Because there are some progressives who simply regurgitate other progressives. In what world is universal basic income, not a social safety net? This is the fundamental difference that causes people to view it in a negative way. They think that because it is not a social safety net, while welfare is, that if people choose to go on UBI vs welfare, that it erodes the social safety net. Nevermind the fact that the UBI social safety net is a wider net and thus a greater wealth transfer to the poor. They also don't like the idea of VAT, which is actually a regressive tax, but when coupled with UBI, it is not fair to simply conclude that it transfers wealth away from the poor.

Yang using VAT as one of his pillars to fund UBI is one of the things that I'm most critical of in his plan and makes me suspicious of his intentions. It is very counterproductive and basically obscures the fact that UBI should be supported by a progressive tax. His other assumptions about how UBI at this dollar amount are sensible but that they are undermined by that one glaring flaw.
 

Zetetica

Member
Jan 5, 2019
104
Yang using VAT as one of his pillars to fund UBI is one of the things that I'm most critical of in his plan and makes me suspicious of his intentions. It is very counterproductive and basically obscures the fact that UBI should be supported by a progressive tax. His other assumptions about how UBI at this dollar amount are sensible but that they are undermined by that one glaring flaw.
VAT needs to be implemented in the US regardless. 166 of 193 countries have one because it's one of the hardest kinds of tax to dodge and raises a lot of money. If anything, tacking a UBI on to it is the best way to make a bill that includes a VAT progressive instead of regressive.
At the end of the day, money is fungible. If we implement a VAT, a LVT, a wealth tax, 100% inheritance tax, etc, it really doesn't mean anything to tie specific inputs to outputs. Kind of a pointless exercise since the US doesn't have a balanced budget anyway. The nature of politics just demands that you justify funding for new expenditures unless you're bailing out huge businesses or giving money to the military industrial complex.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,407
a sunken pirate ship
In what world is universal basic income, not a social safety net?
One in which it's intended to supplant other social safety net programs?

Like, in a city like San Francisco or NYC with extremely high costs of living and zero rent control, that money is not going to last. That is less of a social safety net and more of a social camping mat.

This is not going to be able to benefit the vast majority of the people who would need it, because rather than supplementing other policies it is meant to supplant them, and thus retains the worst features of means-tested benefits (bureaucracy, actively requiring people who are poor and overworked having to go through processes to actively apply for them or make a choice for what benefits they elect to receive) and a flat benefit program (which does absolutely nothing to curtail the outsized power the mega-rich / people who derive their value primarily or exclusively through investment income have on the rest of society).

If it were up to me I'd say this wouldn't work unless you seize most under-developed (i.e., not up-to-code) apartment complexes and the like through eminent domain and reappropriate them as low-cost public housing. Yang is saying he wants to make it easier to build high-occupancy housing through restricting zoning laws. He's not the only candidate suggesting this sort of policy but his plan is vague.

He does at least support medicare for all. I guess that's a good thing, but at this point so many of his policies come with such severe caveats that I struggle to trust that there are no strings attached.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,394
One in which it's intended to supplant other social safety net programs?

Like, in a city like San Francisco or NYC with extremely high costs of living and zero rent control, that money is not going to last. That is less of a social safety net and more of a social camping mat.

The cost of living in San Fran is independent of what any welfare program at a national level is designed to do. As for the actual value of 12k a year this is a very realistic value to implement at this point in our economy. When I did a few paper napkin estimates on the taxation rate of the top 1% If we taxed the top .5% at 60% it functionally could redistribute a similar amount as Yang proposes, that is assuming their net income isn't illiquid which is certainly not the case.


At this point in time arguing over UBI needs to be higher in value is counter productive because the scope of its impact is difficult to understand without some serious number crunching you can't afford. Just implementing it now and readjusting it later is worth more of our time and consideration.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,407
a sunken pirate ship
At this point in time arguing over UBI needs to be higher in value is counter productive because the scope of its impact is difficult to understand without some serious number crunching you can't afford. Just implementing it now and readjusting it later is worth more of our time and consideration.
I mostly agree, which is why I think the thing about having to choose between standard SSI and the dividend is such a problem. If we're not equipped to understand its macroeconomic effects, then how can we expect the same out of the people who are most in need of the extra money? My problems with Yang are not specifically that he is floating a UBI but that this UBI actually does come with certain strings attached if you take advantage of other existing government programs.
 
Jun 20, 2019
494
He’s proposing a VAT which is crazy regressive. The numbers don’t add up at all, assuming 240 million Americans 18 and older you would need $2.88 trillion annually to pay for the tax. Total PCE is estimated at $20.1 trillion annualized, so taxing all consumer goods at 10% would net “only” $2.01 trillion assuming no significant fraud.

That means two things.
  1. ALL consumer goods, including food and energy such as gas and heating fuel, would need to be taxed at 10% to make the tax income listed above balance out. This is extremely regressive since the poorest quintile spend a far greater share of their income on these types of goods than the upper quintiles.

  2. Yang’s plan states that those on welfare could choose to take benefits instead of the UBI, and mentions that the costs would be covered by “existing expenditures” on welfare programs of about $600 billion. This is the only explanation of how the plan would cover the gap between the $2.88 trillion needed and the $2.01 trillion funded by VAT. What this means in practice is those who receive assistance over $12,000 won’t receive any benefits from UBI but WILL receive huge increases (proportional to their income) to the costs of everything they consume, including essentials like food, energy, and toiletries. It will crush the people who need assistance to survive.
The whole thing is ghoulish in the way it pits the comfortable but marginally secure “middle class” (in American lingo) against the working poor, and both against the destitute. Meanwhile, the wealthy will see a lower tax increase than everyone else as a fraction of their own wealth, financialization is encouraged, and the mechanisms of wealth concentration just speed up even more.
 

Jadentheman

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,061
It's not just the VAT that will be funding UBI but the majority of UBI will be funded by the VAT. Also VAT is not regresssive when combined with UBI and essential goods are not counted.

One in which it's intended to supplant other social safety net programs?

Like, in a city like San Francisco or NYC with extremely high costs of living and zero rent control, that money is not going to last. That is less of a social safety net and more of a social camping mat.

This is not going to be able to benefit the vast majority of the people who would need it, because rather than supplementing other policies it is meant to supplant them, and thus retains the worst features of means-tested benefits (bureaucracy, actively requiring people who are poor and overworked having to go through processes to actively apply for them or make a choice for what benefits they elect to receive) and a flat benefit program (which does absolutely nothing to curtail the outsized power the mega-rich / people who derive their value primarily or exclusively through investment income have on the rest of society).

If it were up to me I'd say this wouldn't work unless you seize most under-developed (i.e., not up-to-code) apartment complexes and the like through eminent domain and reappropriate them as low-cost public housing. Yang is saying he wants to make it easier to build high-occupancy housing through restricting zoning laws. He's not the only candidate suggesting this sort of policy but his plan is vague.

He does at least support medicare for all. I guess that's a good thing, but at this point so many of his policies come with such severe caveats that I struggle to trust that there are no strings attached.
For teh homeless that have nothing or the working homeless an extra $1000 a month in their own pocket no questions asked will definitely help them. Or would you rather they depend on the welfare system that isn't guaranteed to help them for their needs completely as well as provide their aid instantly compared to $1000 just given to them?

Also UBI will not affect rent control as everyone will have money so essentially the supply and demand will dictate as people have the means to request and fund more housing ir use the move to move elsewhere. So that's what I've been reading. Honestly rent ties in with housing policy and Yang is probably a bit weak on that.

Anyone selling a flat 1K as a suitable replacement for all welfare is a fucko and should not be taken seriously as a candidate. The more I hear about this guy the less I like him.
The average price most people get paid in welfare is $500 a month. And even then the added bureaucracy and statements of what they could do with their money is far more limiting than the flat 1K. As anything else some things do stack with the UBI and it's opt in. And those welfare recipients can choose what benefits them. It's not like their choice is permanent so they can switch depending on their needs. It's not a replacement. Stop peddling that.
 
Jun 20, 2019
494
Let’s assume Yang’s plan passes. Why would a family at the 80th percentile with two adults net a gross increase in government payouts of $24,000 while a family with two adults at the 20th percentile get $12,000? How does that make sense at all?

e: too tired to math I guess
 
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xbhaskarx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,920
NorCal
Other than low-key dismissing and shaming that comedian what else has Yang done that condones racism?
How about Yang appearing on Tucker Carlson multiple times, at a time when so many Dems and others on the left are engaged in a campaign to get advertisers to abandon Tucker's show due to all the racism?

Can't believe that the candidate who goes on Tucker Carlson, who bombards this country with an hour of white nationalist propaganda nightly, would not see racists as a big deal...




What's worse is there is a huge movement to get companies to stop advertising during Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham, and this guy (and Tulsi Gabbard) don't give a fuck and are happy to normalize their racist shows just to get a little bit of publicity for themselves. Now that's the kind of bold leadership we need in the White House!
 
Oct 25, 2017
548
Other than low-key dismissing and shaming that comedian what else has Yang done that condones racism? Also what policy of his specifically target 4chan?
Pandering to white nationalists with his white birth rates comment. And leaning into the fear around America becoming majority minority.

Or a person who strives for a higher ethic of not reciprocating evil-for-evil when hurt. This is because fault-finding someone who has hurt you is quite easy. It is much harder to forgive a person who has willfully or intentionally hurt you.

Or it could be that Yang, like many others, discovered forgiveness frees individuals from the shackles of hate.

"...the faculty we have for receiving forgiveness and the faculty we have for granting forgiveness are one and the same thing. If we open the one we shall open the other. If we slam the door on the one, we slam the door on the other... [Forgiveness] releases not only the person who is being forgiven but the person who is doing the forgiving. We can probably all think of examples of this. When I forgive you for treading on my toe, I release you from any burden of guilt, any sense that I might still be angry with you when we meet tomorrow, or that I will treat you differently in the future or try to get even with you. But I also release myself from having to go to bed cross, from having to toss and turn wondering how to gain my revenge. When we go up the scale from treading on toes to far more serious offenses, forgiveness can mean not only that I release you from the threat of my anger and its consequences, but also that I avoid having the rest of my life consumed with anger, bitterness and resentment." (Scholar N.T. Wright)
I think assuming the worst in a person, instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt, will only lead to a distrust of others and is antithetical to human flourishing.
You people are so fucking transparent.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,228
Do you honesty think that putting “hahahaha” like you’re laughing at my stupidity at the beginning of your posts is convincing to anyone whatsoever? It isn’t and it exemplifies just how you don’t understand basic human psychology.

Literally every outlet reporting on Daryl Davis knows what good he’s done in the world except for far left antifa extremists who share your toxic world view. He’s helped over 200 people, if a handful of them were at Charlottesville, that’s still 190+ people that weren’t.

And if you’re even remotely familiar with history, it’s not like he is the only example. Virtually every great leader has preached forgiveness and unity. You don’t win hearts and minds by laughing at the people you are trying to convince.
Daryl Davis is also known to lie

Davis claims to be responsible for helping to dismantle the KKK in Maryland because things "fell apart" after he began making inroads with its members there.[19][22] Contrary to this claim, the KKK remains active in Maryland.[23] Richard Preston, leader of the Confederate White Knights whose robe was alleged to have been surrendered to Davis, was arrested for firing his gun at counter-protesters at the 2017 Unite the Right rally.[24] Daryl Davis offered to post Preston's bail.[25] He later took Preston to the National Museum of African American History. Shortly thereafter he was asked to give away the bride at Preston's wedding.[5]

We actually have little indication that anyone he supposedly helped stopped being racist, merely that he claims 200 left the KKK (unsubstantiated claims btw those are the numbers he claims indirectly)

Shit dude he'll still be your friend and bail you out of jail even if you still love the KKK and won't give up your robe:

Some people point at him, mouths agape. Some shake their heads. No one speaks to him. But it's clear many are offended. This leader of a chapter of the Klan is wearing a bandana of the Confederate flag - a symbol of the old South and for many a symbol of slavery.



No regrets


Preston does not engage with the people around him. He came for the museum, not for them. And anyway, he sees nothing wrong with wearing what he calls the rebel flag.

"It should not be offensive to anybody, that's the whole thing. It's just a piece of history," he says. "We were there to see history and I wore a piece of history. It's not against anybody. It's not hatred."

Still, he does use racist and homophobic slurs. He calls President Barack Obama a "Muslim Mongrel" and buys into the "birther" lie made popular by Donald Trump. While Trump finally admitted Obama was born in the United States, Preston still believes otherwise.
He says using the word n-word isn't racist, it is meant to describe the worst of all races. He claims cross-burnings are merely cross-lightings to celebrate Jesus and not a symbol to inspire fear of death in black people. And yet this is a man that gives Davis hope.


...

You can tell Preston and Davis are friends. Preston sings along as Davis tickles the ivories in his house. They laugh, they hug.
...


01:39
Woman harassed for wearing Puerto Rico shirt


How the Klansman who shot toward a black man in Charlottesville ended up at the African-American Museum
By Mallory Simon, CNN
Updated at 9:09 PM ET, Fri August 10, 2018

Washington (CNN) — Staring at a black man in Charlottesville a year ago, Richard Preston took out his gun and fired. Now he, an imperial wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, is being stared at by a crowd of black people at the National Museum of African American History and Culture.
He walks past a long line of people waiting to pay their respects to murdered teenager Emmett Till.
There is a lone pew. The mood is somber and heavy. Like a never-ending memorial service or wake.
And there is the glass-topped casket, demanded by Till's mother so everyone could see how her boy had been beaten beyond recognition. Till was killed in Mississippi in 1955 when he was 14 years old by two white men for allegedly whistling at a white woman. His gruesome death further mobilized the civil rights movement.
Women and men begin to wipe tears from their face as they see the casket, which came to the museum after Till's body was exhumed in 2005 as part of a criminal investigation, and the boy's smiling picture placed next to it. Some remove their hats to pay respect. They listen to the voice of Till's mother describing her son's mangled body. Gospel singer Mahalia Jackson's version of "Amazing Grace" pierces through the otherwise hushed room.

Emmett Till's mother grieves over his casket, which was donated after the boy's remains were exhumed and reburied.
Preston is quiet as he faces the casket, having said earlier he wants to take in the history at the museum in Washington, DC.

Some people point at him, mouths agape. Some shake their heads. No one speaks to him. But it's clear many are offended. This leader of a chapter of the Klan is wearing a bandana of the Confederate flag - a symbol of the old South and for many a symbol of slavery.
No regrets
Preston does not engage with the people around him. He came for the museum, not for them. And anyway, he sees nothing wrong with wearing what he calls the rebel flag.
"It should not be offensive to anybody, that's the whole thing. It's just a piece of history," he says. "We were there to see history and I wore a piece of history. It's not against anybody. It's not hatred."

Daryl Davis and Preston watch a video on slavery inside the museum.
There is one African-American man who is talking with Preston, and it's the reason he is at the museum. Daryl Davis, an R&B musician, has spent decades engaging with the Klan and has evidence he's helped turn hearts away from hate. Davis says he has befriended 200 klansmen over the years who have subsequently left the group. More than 40 of them did so with a simple gesture and a powerful symbol: they relinquished their KKK robes to Davis. Preston is not unlike many of those men. He even knows some of them or calls them friends.
The visit by the pair to the museum has been long planned but took on extra significance after Preston was arrested amid violence surrounding the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville a year ago, which he attended as part of the "Real Three Percent Rising" militia. It was there Preston a fired a gun into the ground, shouting "n***er" at a black man with a blow torch, believing lives were at risk.

Richard Preston is seen in a video pointing a gun before firing in Charlottesville.
"How do you get one black man's attention in a crowd full of black people?" Preston asks.
He believes he was allowed to become the law in that moment, when he says police didn't. Preston will be sentenced later this month after he pleaded no contest to charges relating to firing the weapon.
Davis had paid some of Preston's bail money and suggested to the judge that visiting the museum could be some form of mitigation, in the way a dangerous driver might take an educational course.

Daryl Davis and Richard Preston outside the National Museum of African American History and Culture.
"It's going to plant a seed," Davis says. "The seed may not blossom today, tomorrow, the next day, but eventually it will come out because the truth never can, never can never be squashed."

Who are the white nationalists gathering in Washington?
In the eye of the beholder
But the truths they both saw in that museum were quite different.
While Davis may have hoped Preston would have seen into some of the lives of African-Americans through the vivid displays, the klansman speaks of the artifacts, the old cabins, buildings and rifles. Not of the human toll of slavery, of Jim Crow and denial of civil rights. He speaks of how "history is the greatest power of knowledge" but he also challenges some of the way facts were presented inside the museum.
There's a small section of the museum that talks about the Klan, its history, its violence against African-Americans. And it also has a robe that Davis helped authenticate for the museum.
Which is one of the things Preston touted as impressing him in the museum. The quality of the handmade robe from the early 20th century.

Daryl Davis and Richard Preston pose in front of an old KKK robe and hood at the museum.
As Davis and Preston stand in front of the museum talking about lessons learned, or what they consider to be true history, it's hard not to think this relationship makes little sense.
It is hard to not wonder if Davis is being taken for a fool. That Preston isn't using him to help his sentence. Or at least to help massage his image. They both insist this is not the case.
For years Preston has been trying to re-brand the KKK as peaceful, Christian do-gooders. Not hate-filled racists.

Richard Preston is seen in a video speaking about the KKK in Maryland.
He swears he doesn't hate black people. And that not all KKK groups do.

"I have friends that are black, many of them" the wizard insists.
He admits some groups did "did have a history of terrorizing black folks, but not all Klans did."
"I've never terrorized the black person in my life," Preston says.
The less scary option
Still, he does use racist and homophobic slurs. He calls President Barack Obama a "Muslim Mongrel" and buys into the "birther" lie made popular by Donald Trump. While Trump finally admitted Obama was born in the United States, Preston still believes otherwise.
He says using the word n-word isn't racist, it is meant to describe the worst of all races. He claims cross-burnings are merely cross-lightings to celebrate Jesus and not a symbol to inspire fear of death in black people. And yet this is a man that gives Davis hope.
In part, because to Davis, the man in a hood willing to have a conversation, is the less scary option.
"I'd rather see somebody in the robe than in a uniform or suit and tie who may feel the same way," he says.
At least you know what you can expect with a KKK robe he says. The white shirts, the khakis of those white supremacists, the ones who go to high-powered jobs or have influence, that's who he worries more about.

The pair sings together in Davis' home.
You can tell Preston and Davis are friends. Preston sings along as Davis tickles the ivories in his house. They laugh, they hug.

Preston begins telling a story about the symbolic meaning of the American flag. It's based on an oft-repeated and inaccurate version of the events at Fort McHenry during the Battle of Baltimore and the endurance of the flag that led to the "Star Spangled Banner." Preston chokes up talking about the soldiers who defended that flag. He begins wiping tears from his face.
Davis lets him tell the lengthy story, and then asks a question. If Preston is so moved and so respects a symbol of America like the flag, how can he not show that same reverence for the office of the presidency also a symbol, when speaking of Obama?
"You know, you're right," Preston says.
It's a small win. It's the moments Davis works for.
A wedding and a vow
Still, you cannot help but wonder what's going on inside their heads as it's happening. Why this imperial wizard of Confederate White Knights of the KKK is meeting with a black man. And why he asked him to be in his wedding.
It is nine days after the visit to the museum. Daryl Davis is standing at Richard Preston's home clutching the arm of his soon to be bride Stacy Bell. Preston and Bell asked him to give away the bride after her father could not attend.

Daryl Davis walks Stacy Bell towards Richard Preston at their wedding this week.
Davis and Bell stand side-by-side and link arms on the side of Preston's home with white siding. Directly above the pair a Confederate flag hangs in the window. But it doesn't faze Davis who is here for one reason.
"He's my friend," Davis explains.
Nobody knows what is in Preston's heart. He may truly believe what he is saying, that he believes he isn't violent. That he isn't racist. But his words and actions scream otherwise. And while he may not be generally angry at or violent towards black people, he still hangs onto a version of fear many other white people in this country do: the browning of America, specifically immigration these days.
"I do not believe that illegals should be here and never have, OK? If you want to become an American citizen, I don't care what culture you come from," Preston says. "Don't come over here to make money here, to send it back home, depleting our finances and creating a better life for your family back home when we have people here who were starving to death. We need to take care of our veterans. We needed to take care of our homeless. We needed to take care of the poor people of our country. OK? There are the things we need to focus on. All these illegals getting all this money handed to them is wrong."

But will Preston's mind ever change? Even if there is genuinely no hatred, he still stands strongly by the Klan name. He says he may someday give up the title of imperial wizard and retire, but he will keep working until then to better the Klan.
"I want to see the Klan become what it once was not what it became," he says.
And he says matter-of-factly, he will not give up his Klan robe to Davis as others have.
"I'll be buried in it."


Meanwhile this is how he speaks to BLM. activists

In the film, the trio sat down at a Baltimore bar for a chat. Thing get heated when the two young men question why Davis has spent the past thirty years trying to get white people to overcome their racism instead of helping his own people.

“What does that do for people?” Rose asks of Davis in the film. “Infiltrating the Klan ain’t freeing your people.” He added, “Befriending a white person who doesn’t have to go through the struggles of you, me… that’s not an accomplishment. That’s a new friend. That’s somebody you can call.”

“And this is coming from a dropout,” Davis shoots back, condescendingly.

“Just like the young man said to you, you could have done a whole lot more work in the black community from the ‘90s to now to move our people forward rather than coming in here trying to uplift somebody because you got a hood off of their head,” exclaims Faulk, adding, “I don’t give a shit about you, or your KKK hoods! Don’t come to Baltimore doing this shit again. Don’t come back here.”
During the post-screening Q&A session following the first showing of Accidental Courtesy at SXSW, things got testy. After an audience member questioned the BLM interaction in the film, Davis again took the opportunity to lay into Rose (who was not present) and defend the discourteous way he treated him on camera.

“As the man said, he’s a 21-year-old dropout,” Davis said of Rose.

Contrast that to bailing out his white supremacist friend, testifying on his behalf and giving away his bride at his wedding

But hey I get it, Daryl Davis is the good guy and us far left antifa extremists are the toxic enemy.

Ps wish next time just open up with that so I know I'm dealing with someone whose real goal is negative peace and not justice

As for laughing nah that's just for my own amusement, unlike Davis I don't have interest in being your friend, giving your bride away and generally defending you unconditionally all while you yourself don't change in any way. I'm not a coddler.
 
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KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,112
One in which it's intended to supplant other social safety net programs?

Like, in a city like San Francisco or NYC with extremely high costs of living and zero rent control, that money is not going to last. That is less of a social safety net and more of a social camping mat.

This is not going to be able to benefit the vast majority of the people who would need it, because rather than supplementing other policies it is meant to supplant them, and thus retains the worst features of means-tested benefits (bureaucracy, actively requiring people who are poor and overworked having to go through processes to actively apply for them or make a choice for what benefits they elect to receive) and a flat benefit program (which does absolutely nothing to curtail the outsized power the mega-rich / people who derive their value primarily or exclusively through investment income have on the rest of society).

If it were up to me I'd say this wouldn't work unless you seize most under-developed (i.e., not up-to-code) apartment complexes and the like through eminent domain and reappropriate them as low-cost public housing. Yang is saying he wants to make it easier to build high-occupancy housing through restricting zoning laws. He's not the only candidate suggesting this sort of policy but his plan is vague.

He does at least support medicare for all. I guess that's a good thing, but at this point so many of his policies come with such severe caveats that I struggle to trust that there are no strings attached.
A UBI supplementing other social safety net programs is even more progressive, but that's not the debate. It's UBI vs status quo. And in that debate, it is a progressive policy.

Rent control is incredibly tough to tackle, but I believe that UBI allowing people to stack with others will be positive.

Pandering to white nationalists with his white birth rates comment. And leaning into the fear around America becoming majority minority.
Dishonest take on his views. Him mentioning the majority minority is to explain that the majority lash out at minorities. We can see this right now, just like my parents already suffered this year. The birth rate statistic he uses is in context used to explain what he sees as a problem, that the economy is getting shittier and leaving people behind. This all ties into his automation narrative leading to more drug abuse and suicides in those areas hit by automation.


Why not use all his other views on race instead of just trying to dishonestly paint him as anti-progressive? He's literally turned Trump's anti-immigrant rhetoric around by blaming automation being the problem, not immigrants.
 
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Sianos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,562
my hot take is that Andrew Yang and Bernie Sanders have the same strengths and weaknesses as candidates, yet opposite approaches to messaging
 

Matthew23

Member
Oct 31, 2017
532
Let’s assume Yang’s plan passes. Why would a family at the 80th percentile with two adults net a gross increase in government payouts of $24,000 while a family with two adults at the 20th percentile get $12,000? How does that make sense at all?

e: too tired to math I guess
It's a baseline or starting point for everyone which is the best kind of safety net. No requirements or reporting means no one falls through the cracks or is left out for making 1k over the threshold. This also incentivizes improving ones situation without fear of losing assistance. For the 50% of workers in the U.S. making 30k or less, many of whom receive no government assistance, this would be life changing. Those making more will also be paying more via the VAT with the top earners putting in more than they receive. There will be some households that don't make sense sure, but the universality of UBI is overall a strength and additionally makes it very popular like social security.

Yang has said in interviews that the VAT could be higher on luxory items and leave certain consumer staples like common grocery items exempt. He has also mentioned increasing existing welfare payouts to offset the VAT for those who choose not to opt in, so no one is worse off.

Here is an interesting write up on Yang's UBI policy and how it compares to current programs:

 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,995
I’d vote for this guy in a primary if he dropped the charade and ran as a republican
What Republican in America would campaign on UBI? A federal jobs guarantee is often the response conservatives make in European nations to avoid considering UBI, and they think that idea is too crazy here.
 
Oct 28, 2017
599
User Banned (5 Days): Inflammatory Accusations
Daryl Davis is also known to lie




We actually have little indication that anyone he supposedly helped stopped being racist, merely that he claims 200 left the KKK (unsubstantiated claims btw those are the numbers he claims indirectly)

Shit dude he'll still be your friend and bail you out of jail even if you still love the KKK and won't give up your robe:








Meanwhile this is how he speaks to BLM. activists




Contrast that to bailing out his white supremacist friend, testifying on his behalf and giving away his bride at his wedding

But hey I get it, Daryl Davis is the good guy and us far left antifa extremists are the toxic enemy.

Ps wish next time just open up with that so I know I'm dealing with someone whose real goal is negative peace and not justice

As for laughing nah that's just for my own amusement, unlike Davis I don't have interest in being your friend, giving your bride away and generally defending you unconditionally all while you yourself don't change in any way. I'm not a coddler.
The fact is that even if he’s convinced a single person in his entire life, he’s accomplished much more than you have with your bloodthirsty, no one deserves redemption backwards ass mindset that convinces no one.

You claim to be progressive and yet your view on forgiveness is worse than human beings figured out in the time of Hammurabi. You’re literally trying to set us back ~3800 years.