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Ashen, Announced as Coming to Steam and the Win10 Store, Now Exclusive to the Epic Store on PC *Update* Game Director Responds - Win10 Coming ASAP

Oct 25, 2017
2,788
Taiwan
They have its called Fortnite. And they are its very prominent on the store page.
Except it's free and was always stated to be there. Also it's their own game.

Kind of different from a game that is not theirs that has for the longest time stated that ms windows store and steam, then bam on a client that doesn't even have a search bar yet.

I find it funny that those who have no issue probably have no clue what all the other clients do.
 
Nov 7, 2017
2,072
Why are people so angry about this?

doesn't cost you anything
I normally wouldn't be angry but I bought the game on Epic Games Store and have yet to be able to play it. I've experienced numerous issues trying to get it to run, I've submitted 2 tickets to their help desk and they have yet to respond to me. I have never had issues like this with any game on Steam. This is a brand new game and I can't run the damned thing.
 
Aug 23, 2018
762
No regional pricing means it costs as much as a week's or even month's paycheck in some places.

So yes it fucking does.

They are asking for people in those countries to go back to the old ways of piracy. Valve had 11 years to learn these lessons and nobody else is even taking note.
And this is the beauty of competition. The Epic Store is eventually going to adopt regional pricing to compete with Steam. Just like how Valve is eventually going to give small devs a fairer shake and give them a bigger slice of the pie.

If only you showed as much empathy for small devs as you do for the regional pricing issue.


I'd love for you to actually make a list of games announced for other stores that Valve then went to buy exclusivity to.
I'll wait.
I'm sure you'll compile a very, very lenghty list.
Valve has never needed to buy exclusivity because they've had a near stranglehold on the PC gaming scene, and are by far the biggest market for PC games.
Given that you and your allies often deride PC storefront exclusivity for 3rd party games, I'd love for you to highlight some posts you've made in the past criticizing developers for bringing their games exclusively to Steam.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,595
Dark Space
Game director on why the game is exclusive to the Epic store. Sounds like the Windows 10 version wasn't actually stopped by this deal and it was a resource issue.

http://www.ashen-game.com/news/ashen-launch
This is a lot of words, but I'm not even sure he's saying their publisher gave them a choice.

Epic approached the pub -> the pub came and told them -> it happened. He never said they had a choice in the matter.
 

Ryna

Member
Oct 25, 2017
815
Canada
They have their own exclusives and their own free games.
You mean exclusive right? Unreal and Paragon got shafted for Fortnite.

And what I meant by my post is that instead of moneyhatting indie games and asking them to cancel/delay their already announced Steam versions, they should fund new original games for the platform, or focus on their free game promotion.

Giving out games like Subnautica can really help them gain an audience. The whole Ashen/Satisfactory situation just seems like a good way to piss people off.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,610
Germany
Why don't they just sell the game on steam and the epic launcher. Maybe sell it cheaper on the new launcher. This whole exclusivity thing is bad for the consumer.
 

no1

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Member
Apr 27, 2018
954
This is a lot of words, but I'm not even sure he's saying their publisher gave them a choice.

Epic approached the pub -> the pub came and told them -> it happened. He never said they had a choice in the matter.
It no doubt was the Publisher as they are bringin 3 games to Epic's launcher including Journey.
 
Oct 25, 2017
292
Just something I've been thinking about. I wonder what the alternate reality where Steam announces they will be changing their revenue split to 88/12, and in the future will be paying developers money to prevent games being sold on any other stores would look like.

On topic, until Epic and any other stores that want me to purchase games from them offer refunds and region pricing I won't buy from them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
583
And this is the beauty of competition. The Epic Store is eventually going to adopt regional pricing to compete with Steam. Just like how Valve is eventually going to give small devs a fairer shake and give them a bigger slice of the pie.

If only you showed as much empathy for small devs as you do for the regional pricing issue.
Yeah those devs are suffering so much that they opted to have their game pirated instead of bought by many people who had been "converted" by Valve.

As I've heard here earlier: 70% of a cake is better than 88% of a muffin. Release your game everywhere and get the most sales or... cut your arm off for some reason?

Those poor, poor devs suffering under the Valve regime. Oh, wait. It's just Annapurna Interactive. Where are the devs that would LOVE to get their game on the Epic store for more sales and "greater visibility" except for the little niggle that their game has already released on Steam? Because they definitely exist. Plenty of indies on Uplay, GOG, Origin IN ADDITION to Steam. Having a release on Epic for them would be akin to a late Switch port. Even more sales for a game that already had its release window sales. But they AREN'T on the Epic store. The store launched with a paltry amount of games with most "Coming Soon" instead of available. The smallest indie teams who would theoretically benefit the most from this 88% aren't being given that "slice of the pie".
 
Sep 7, 2018
987
And this is the beauty of competition. The Epic Store is eventually going to adopt regional pricing to compete with Steam. Just like how Valve is eventually going to give small devs a fairer shake and give them a bigger slice of the pie.
"Fairer shake." Servers aren't free. For Valve to justify the cost of hosting a game on Steam, that game needs to generate a minimum amount of revenue for Valve. Successful games generate far more revenue for Valve and attract far more users to Steam, increasing revenue for everyone. As such, reducing Valve's cut for successful games is more fair than reducing their cut for less successful games. The successful games essentially carry the less successful games.

If you want a bigger slice of the pie, you need to earn it first.

Valve has never needed to buy exclusivity because they've had a near stranglehold on the PC gaming scene, and are by far the biggest market for PC games.
"Stranglehold." Competitors have had plenty of time to catch up and even surpass Steam in areas like customer service and features. But they haven't. Every platform except GOG exists solely to give publishers 100% profit on their first-party games. Publishers and developers choose to release their games on Steam because that's the desired platform for the vast majority of PC gamers.

That's the issue here. If Epic wants to compete with Steam, they need to provide a service that can at least match Steam's. They haven't done that. Instead, they've paid for third-party exclusives in order to force interested players into using their underdeveloped platform. There's no excuse. Steam has been around for over a decade and its competitors already know the features that consumers want. If you launch your platform with none of these features, you're basically admitting that you aren't trying to provide a superior service and simply want to make more money.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
583
Just something I've been thinking about. I wonder what the alternate reality where Steam announces they will be changing their revenue split to 88/12, and in the future will be paying developers money to prevent games being sold on any other stores would look like.

On topic, until Epic and any other stores that want me to purchase games from them offer refunds and region pricing I won't buy from them.
A move like that can be seen as anti-competitive as it would drive companies like GMG and other key resellers out of business. They wouldn't be able to offer lower prices than Steam and still make a profit. Their whole business model relies on Steam's ability for devs to create keys for free and sell them elsewhere with 0% going to Valve. With a lower percentage cut, the range the price cut can still make a profit decreases. Sites that sell retail keys from other countries will fare better.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,369
It's still a Play Anywhere title. Just not at launch.

If that represents an issue, then, well, welcome to the world PC players have been trying to warn you about for years, and you're now seeing in the steaming world as Disney cuts ties with Netflix. Here, have a brochure. Because, you know, something typical can't be bad, right, MS Store defenders?
I'm not a "windows store defender." I've ragged on about it for paragraphs on Era. I just like Play Anywhere as a feature.

I agree with you in general.

Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite. It did not come to the Win store at launch but months later it was added ad Play Anywhere.
Huh. Interesting.
 

JaseC

🌞You'll always have friends at the Grand Hotel🌞
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,189
Western Australia
I'm not a "windows store defender." I've ragged on about it for paragraphs on Era. I just like Play Anywhere as a feature.

I agree with you in general.
Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. And to be clear, while I myself don't support UWP in general and have no intention of doing so, I don't think less of anybody who does or anything of the sort.
 
Mar 21, 2018
2,082
"Fairer shake." Servers aren't free. For Valve to justify the cost of hosting a game on Steam, that game needs to generate a minimum amount of revenue for Valve. Successful games generate far more revenue for Valve and attract far more users to Steam, increasing revenue for everyone. As such, reducing Valve's cut for successful games is more fair than reducing their cut for less successful games. The successful games essentially carry the less successful games.
Yes, please continue worrying that valve will rake in one million less, this is certainly the most important concern in gaming.

Those poor, poor devs suffering under the Valve regime. Oh, wait. It's just Annapurna Interactive.
It's way more devs than Annapurna Interactive - that you both don't know this, and single out a specific company, is rather telling. I have yet to meet an indie dev that hasn't said that Valve was terrible in many different ways. that's *why* so many devs cheer on them getting competition. That might actually make valve improve in ways actually relevant to them.

Just something I've been thinking about. I wonder what the alternate reality where Steam announces they will be changing their revenue split to 88/12, and in the future will be paying developers money to prevent games being sold on any other stores would look like.
Looking at the reaction to this or the recent Gwent news, the same people furious about Epic doing this here would very likely cheer valve there. It's much like console warrying: When (other console company) does it, it's baaaaaaaaaaad. If (the console company the gamer based their identity on) does it, however, it's actually good.

Anyway, time to move to a certain other thread and actually congratulate Steam to a good move that might, if done sensibly, make it my chosen platform in the long run. Oh well.
 

no1

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Member
Apr 27, 2018
954
On Twitter, they say the removal of the page on Xbox was a mistake that they are working on. It was due to complications of doing the E3 giveaway or something.
Yeah lol this isn't the reason. It's been nearly a month since this has happened lol.
 
Sep 7, 2018
987
Yes, please continue worrying that valve will rake in one million less, this is certainly the most important concern in gaming.
For the average consumer, being able to play their games on their preferred platform is more important than developers getting a 88% cut instead of a 70% cut, especially if said games are now exclusive to a platform that is objectively inferior in every way.

Looking at the reaction to this or the recent Gwent news, the same people furious about Epic doing this here would very likely cheer valve there. It's much like console warrying: When (other console company) does it, it's baaaaaaaaaaad. If (the console company the gamer based their identity on) does it, however, it's actually good.
What Gwent news are you referring to? Are you talking about CDPR canceling the UWP version of Gwent? What does that have to do with Valve? Gwent isn't even on Steam.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,788
Taiwan
Because one store is competitionnnnnnn.

Which is simply wrong. There is nothing driving competition here.

Why yea think isp can charge so much and offer almost jack squat?

Though too much competition and get the printer ink situation.

Yea all really need to differ exclusivity and competition.
 
May 9, 2018
788
What the fuck.

Was gonna play this game with Gamepass. Well, that's a no from me then. What a shitty move.
So you’re not going to play a game because it’s not coming to steam day one ? Or is it the play anywhere part ? Either way just play it and stop being outraged over silly things.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,448
I'm trying to catch up on everything but it seems like the anger is that the game was announced to be play anywhere and would be available on more platforms. The devs were then approached by epic to do a timed exclusivity deal which they accepted and now the ganes been removed from some platforms until a later date. This move has then caused the outrage?

Is that about it?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,788
Taiwan
So you guys want more things denuvo, great. Thanks guys.

So even though not every game on steam requires steam running, you rather have denuvo or keep using securom. They had to do something.

Epic did call the PC platform just a platform for pirates at one point which during that time they abandoned the PC.
 
Aug 23, 2018
762
Yeah those devs are suffering so much that they opted to have their game pirated instead of bought by many people who had been "converted" by Valve.

As I've heard here earlier: 70% of a cake is better than 88% of a muffin. Release your game everywhere and get the most sales or... cut your arm off for some reason?

Those poor, poor devs suffering under the Valve regime. Oh, wait. It's just Annapurna Interactive. Where are the devs that would LOVE to get their game on the Epic store for more sales and "greater visibility" except for the little niggle that their game has already released on Steam? Because they definitely exist. Plenty of indies on Uplay, GOG, Origin IN ADDITION to Steam. Having a release on Epic for them would be akin to a late Switch port. Even more sales for a game that already had its release window sales. But they AREN'T on the Epic store. The store launched with a paltry amount of games with most "Coming Soon" instead of available. The smallest indie teams who would theoretically benefit the most from this 88% aren't being given that "slice of the pie".
Relax. It's just starting. Epic isn't a pushover, and Tencent - a $500+ bn company - is one of their major backers.
These are just the opening moves and y'all are already rattled.

This is really going to be good, indeed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,209
Relax. It's just starting. Epic isn't a pushover, and Tencent - a $500+ bn company - is one of their major backers.
These are just the opening moves and y'all are already rattled.

This is really going to be good, indeed.



Yeah, same as Discord or Amazon.
We keep getting console warriors such as you telling us every time how it's amazing and finally things will move in the PC digital download space (while having never touched a single of these clients) and then said store did shit, until the next one.
 
Aug 23, 2018
762
"Fairer shake." Servers aren't free. For Valve to justify the cost of hosting a game on Steam, that game needs to generate a minimum amount of revenue for Valve. Successful games generate far more revenue for Valve and attract far more users to Steam, increasing revenue for everyone. As such, reducing Valve's cut for successful games is more fair than reducing their cut for less successful games. The successful games essentially carry the less successful games.
But somehow, Epic is able to make a living with a 12% cut, along with other Unreal Engine waivers.


"Stranglehold." Competitors have had plenty of time to catch up and even surpass Steam in areas like customer service and features.
False.

That's the issue here. If Epic wants to compete with Steam, they need to provide a service that can at least match Steam's.
It's really not up to you to determine what 'competition' is. And no, they don't have to match Steam feature-for-feature to compete. Linux gaming and VR for example remain niche features that don't need to be in there day 1 to appeal to the vast majority of users.

Walmart's Jet.com is in competition with Amazon. They didn't need to replicate all the features of Amazon Prime before competing.

Instead, they've paid for third-party exclusives in order to force interested players into using their underdeveloped platform. There's no excuse.
There's nothing inherently wrong with paying for 3rd party exclusives. Feels a lot less distasteful than seeing people become fanboys for a particular PC storefront.


There's no excuse. Steam has been around for over a decade and its competitors already know the features that consumers want. If you launch your platform with none of these features, you're basically admitting that you aren't trying to provide a superior service and simply want to make more money.
No. It's basically launching with an inferior service, but nobody is saying there's no plan to improve the client over the years. Why are you spreading FUD? They have a viable product, able to hit the features that the majority of PC gamers want. They can work to add the extras over time.

Ironic of you to bash Epic for 'wanting to make more money' when they are the ones giving by far the most generous cuts to Developers and publishers.
 
Aug 23, 2018
762
Yeah, same as Discord or Amazon.
We keep getting console warriors such as you telling us every time how it's amazing and finally things will move in the PC digital download space (while having never touched a single of these clients) and then said store did shit, until the next one.
lmao @ 'console warriors'.
I own two PS4 pros, an Xbox One X, a Switch, a 3DS, a Vita, a i7 4790K / GTX 1070 PC and pretty much all major VR HMDs (Rift, Vive, Samsung Odyssey, Oculus Go). You will NEVER see me console warring anywhere.

You will also never see me slavishly going to bat for a multi-billion dollar PC storefront.
Truth be told, this PC platform warz stuff you guys have going on may well be even more ridiculous than the console warz stuff. At least, you can empathize with a console warrior who needs to justify his choice of hardware.

Getting all hot and bothered because you have to click a different icon or because of an inordinate amount of love for a multi-billion dollar company is f**king ridiculous.

Check my post history. My stance on dev storefront cuts is fully consistent with my posts in MTX and GaaS discussions; essentially, many developers are struggling to make ends meet today and drastic measures are often required to boost revenue. It's time for Valve to do more for the smaller guys and shave off their 30% cut. Hopefully competition forces their hand sooner rather than later.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,209
lmao @ 'console warriors'.
I own two PS4 pros, an Xbox One X, a Switch, a 3DS, a Vita, a i7 4790K / GTX 1070 PC and pretty much all major VR HMDs (Rift, Vive, Samsung Odyssey, Oculus Go). You will NEVER see me console warring anywhere.

You will also never see me slavishly going to bat for a multi-billion dollar PC storefront.
Truth be told, this PC platform warz stuff you guys have going on may well be even more ridiculous than the console warz stuff. At least, you can empathize with a console warrior who needs to justify his choice of hardware.

Getting all hot and bothered because you have to click a different icon or because of an inordinate amount of love for a multi-billion dollar company is f**king ridiculous.

Check my post history. My stance on dev storefront cuts is fully consistent with my posts in MTX and GaaS discussions; essentially, many developers are struggling to make ends meet today and drastic measures are often required to boost revenue. It's time for Valve to do more for the smaller guys and shave off their 30% cut. Hopefully competition forces their hand sooner rather than later.


Wow, why so much hate ? You seem to have a blinded hatred for a company or something here my friend. :")
Dont worry, everything's fine. If people dont want to download a broken client, it's their consumer choice ?
Why would you get so mad and upset because for once, consumers refuse to bend to a big publisher employing monopolistic anti consumer tactics such as moneyhatting ? If anything, you should be glad to see consumers reacting negatively, but instead it seems to drive you mad, I wonder why. :"")
 
Oct 27, 2017
468
You mean exclusive right? Unreal and Paragon got shafted for Fortnite.
Lot of Paragon white knights coming out of the woodwork all of a sudden. Curious...

Why don't they just sell the game on steam and the epic launcher. Maybe sell it cheaper on the new launcher. This whole exclusivity thing is bad for the consumer.
Valve will not let you do that if you want to be on Steam. Their contract forbids it.

Where are the devs that would LOVE to get their game on the Epic store for more sales and "greater visibility" except for the little niggle that their game has already released on Steam? Because they definitely exist.
There are many of them. Some on this very forum have expressed frustration that Epic is being so selective right now.
 
Aug 23, 2018
762
Wow, why so much hate ? You seem to have a blinded hatred for a company or something here my friend. :")
Dont worry, everything's fine. If people dont want to download a broken client, it's their consumer choice ?
Why would you get so mad and upset because for once, consumers refuse to bend to a big publisher employing monopolistic anti consumer tactics such as moneyhatting ? If anything, you should be glad to see consumers reacting negatively, but instead it seems to drive you mad, I wonder why. :"")
Freudian slip?

All my comments here have been 100% dispassionate. When I'm not chortling at the absurdity of it all.
You guys have been the ones consistently attacking folks who have no issue with using multiple storefronts to play the games they want. A few minutes ago, you called me a 'console warrior' for not going to bat for Valve.

Now my desire to see Valve give a larger cut of the pie to developers is being labeled 'blind hatred' by you.

Freudian slip, Indeed.
 

GHG

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,462
So it's exclusive to the epic store but coming to the Windows Store soon?

This is the worst fucking timeline.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,369
Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. And to be clear, while I myself don't support UWP in general and have no intention of doing so, I don't think less of anybody who does or anything of the sort.
Ah okay. Yeah it bugs me too. I haven't really noticed any kind of benefit from UWP. UWP games don't seem to run better, you gotta go through an unwiedly and unstable store, they're overly picky about what system configs they work with. I had an absolute heck of a time getting Gears 4 to work right. Like. Different updates would break it or fix it. And textures never loaded when I had just a 770.

Things have leveled out much more, and Play Anywhere is pretty convenient, though sometimes I've waited for sales and gotten the steam and PA version, just as I sometimes do with non DRM games.
 

Ryna

Member
Oct 25, 2017
815
Canada
Relax. It's just starting. Epic isn't a pushover, and Tencent - a $500+ bn company - is one of their major backers.
These are just the opening moves and y'all are already rattled.

This is really going to be good, indeed.
Tencet being a major backer is more of a bad thing than good though. They’re super shady. I’d rather not trust them with my personal information.
 
Aug 23, 2018
762
Tencet being a major backer is more of a bad thing than good though. They’re super shady. I’d rather not trust them with my personal information.
Sweeney still has controlling interest. For now, at least.
We'll see how this shakes out in due course.
 
Oct 30, 2017
453
Why don't they just sell the game on steam and the epic launcher. Maybe sell it cheaper on the new launcher. This whole exclusivity thing is bad for the consumer.

Well, if they were actually serious about the "As a developer we want as many players as possible to have the opportunity to play Ashen" bit, that's what they would do, I guess...
 
Dec 3, 2017
642
'Steam ruined PC gaming' might be the worst opinion I've ever seen on this site.
A few years ago I innocently bought the collector's edition of Age of Wonders 3 in a physical box with a DVD, only to find out that I had to install Steam in order to play the game.

This caused me a lot of mental pain, and it's part of the reason why I will hold a grudge against Steam forever. I simply don't want to install some kind of "launcher" software that will bloat my system.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,209
Freudian slip?

All my comments here have been 100% dispassionate. When I'm not chortling at the absurdity of it all.
You guys have been the ones consistently attacking folks who have no issue with using multiple storefronts to play the games they want. A few minutes ago, you called me a 'console warrior' for not going to bat for Valve.

Now my desire to see Valve give a larger cut of the pie to developers is being labeled 'blind hatred' by you.

Freudian slip, Indeed.

Now you seems more calm after I called you out, so it wasnt in vain :D
I mean, yes basically you've been calling out people with deaf tone arguments about blind love and "just a different launcher to click" on which shows how you talk about stuff you didnt touch.

People dont have a blind love for a client. What they care about is their features. What they care about is their wallet and their library.

And whenever I see you posting here, you talk high and belittle these people because as opposed to you, they are actual users and customers.

I mean, who in their right mind would tell people "Guys, dont be that mean toward that company because they force you into a subpar service by undercutting competition with monopolistic means". If it was any other industry, people would be like "Wait, you expect me to use an inferior product of a bad competitor just so that, eventually, that competitor becomes as good as the product I use already ?"
Just imagine OnePlus releasing a phone on par with the Galaxy S3 to compete against Galaxy S9.
Just imagine Samsung releasing a video streaming platform which doesnt support Livestreaming nor HD videos.

That's basically you right now. :O

I mean yeah, service matters. Why do you think since Steam became good, piracy rates dropped and more people bought stuff ?
Why do you think people suddenly started buying games on PC ?

Maybe, just maybe they see value in the service offered.
And yeah, you can dismiss that as much as you want but a storefront and a launcher are a service. If after 4 years of Steamspy Epic is not capable to offer descriptions on their store pages or basic controller support or regional pricing, the service sucks.

The customer is king.
 
Feb 5, 2018
905
Wow, why so much hate ? You seem to have a blinded hatred for a company or something here my friend. :")
Dont worry, everything's fine. If people dont want to download a broken client, it's their consumer choice ?
Why would you get so mad and upset because for once, consumers refuse to bend to a big publisher employing monopolistic anti consumer tactics such as moneyhatting ? If anything, you should be glad to see consumers reacting negatively, but instead it seems to drive you mad, I wonder why. :"")
NOOOOOOO Tencent decides what is competition, you dont! Even though every macroeconomics teacher in the world would roll their eyes if you told them that buying exclucivity for product X increases competition. You will buy the exclusivity and like it! Why? Because consoles do it too! Next Pryme is gonna tell us how storefronts should start billing customers for online play because hey, why not? You dont get to decide and you not deciding is competition and market economy!
 
Oct 28, 2017
464
A few years ago I innocently bought the collector's edition of Age of Wonders 3 in a physical box with a DVD, only to find out that I had to install Steam in order to play the game.

This caused me a lot of mental pain, and it's part of the reason why I will hold a grudge against Steam forever. I simply don't want to install some kind of "launcher" software that will bloat my system.
Ok? Wouldn't that be on the developer or publisher of that game and what they offer in their physical version, not on Steam?

Besides which, I'm not sure if you're aware, Steam has a bunch of other stuff beyond Age of Wonders 3.