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At the Height of the Attack on Trans Folk, Cenk and Ana of The Young Turks Decide to Dabble in Some Old News Transphobia

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excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

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Oct 25, 2017
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As Trans people face arguably the worst threat to their civil rights we've ever seen in America...

Ana Kasparian decided it was time to join the conversation.... by...

Dragging up an old fake controversy.

It starts with this utterly ridiculous derail of a segment where Cenk and Ana take a pause from mocking Bethany Mandel to uhhh talk about how hypothetically crazy left wing can be, and Ana just drops some transphobia


View: https://twitter.com/kevingriff18/status/1638299908720435204?s=20

Ana then worked herself up so hard with this self inflected rage she tweeted it out



View: https://twitter.com/AnaKasparian/status/1638608868485005314?s=20

Cenk then had a very mature reaction

Screenshot_20230323_014718.jpg


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These have been celebrated by the likes of Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, and anti-trans campaigner and literal nazi Posey Parker.

Just an unbelievable thing to do right now of all times.

Cruel and inhuman.
 
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excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

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Oct 25, 2017
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WildflowerWildfire said:
I always feel people like that are only a small step away from being right wing and just don't want to admit it.
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They've managed to produce an entire roster of brainwormed shitheads who go on to be far right grifters

They're continued existence as a media group baffles me because who are they appealing to?!
 
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Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
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Oct 25, 2017
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That is why I say there is no such thing as "allies"
 
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excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

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Will be interesting where this goes.

Transphobia dabbling tends to open up the door for a life time residency of brainworms
 
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

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Nov 8, 2017
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The mental block is astounding to hear the phrase "people with uterus'" and purposefully taking it to mean a reference strictly to women, instead of uh, people who have a uterus. To then turn it around to "don't refer to me" when, like, no one was. You didn't go to your doctor and get referred to by them as a person with a uterus, you heard someone say something intended to include a broader group of people than just women and decided to take it personally.
 
Razmos

Razmos

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Oct 28, 2017
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People who see inclusive language as an attack on them are the stupidest most irritating people to deal with, just dying to be the victim of something. Fuck off.
 
cameron

cameron

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Oct 26, 2017
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The GOP tried to derail several House hearings on reproductive rights last year after Dobbs, using the same dumb transphobic shite.
 
Cenauru

Cenauru

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I'm fully convinced people are already leaning to the right and are already siding with transphobes in secret when "I'm a woman, not a person with a uterus" leaves their mouths. Either they're already a transphobe, or are full-blown stupid for not understanding why those specific medical terms matter.
 
Palette Swap

Palette Swap

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Oct 25, 2017
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They're deep enough in punditry and online debates to know exactly what this means. They don't live in a vacuum where they're not exposed to all the ongoing political stances (I don't want to write "debates"). Hell, they make a living off that.

So all of this reads like "let's use a TERF talking point at this precise moment" and "we've always been against transphobia but who am I to condemn TERFism, freedom of speech".
 
Trup1aya

Trup1aya

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Oct 25, 2017
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Cis Women who get offended by 'People with uterus' or "People who menstruate" are too self-centered and bigoted to wrap their heads around the fact that there are cis women who don't have uterus or don't menstruate.

Like, I've had this conversation with people who think such phrases "Take their identity away" and then their mind is blown when you remind them that they are arguing that hysterectomies and menopause mark the end of womanhood.

Then, you can go in for the double whammy and remind them that some trans women receive uterus transplants. That face when they are accidentally inclusive is priceless.
 
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The_Iceman2288

The_Iceman2288

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Jun 20, 2021
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It's picking a fight with people that don't exist that actually attacks your friends and gives your enemies more ammo.
 
Amalthea

Amalthea

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Dec 22, 2017
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If you dissect the whole logic in this argument, you realise how stupid it is:

1. They don't want to be called terms like "Person with uterus" etc., despite almost nobody is doing that until it needs to be specifically pointed out for medical reasons.

2. That's because they, as cis-women, want to be the only ones exclusively called women (but they would also include trans men into this definition because "trans isn't real").

3. Wich in turn would mean that woman would simply mean "Person with uterus/period/who births". So they'd be back to their original complaint.

But of course that's not what they actually care about, they just hate trans people and want to ruin their lives.
 
Messofanego

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Oct 25, 2017
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Amalthea said:
Obviously the European two-sex system is the only and absolute one!
https://indianexpress.com/article/w...but-europeans-enforced-specific-gender-roles/
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Yeah speaking as a South Asian, trans folks and gender fluid folks have been part of our cultures for centuries, not free of discrimination, but under colonialism from the Brits, there was more hatred. Pakistan has gotten better and will keep getting better. Like the trans protection law since 2018. Representation in media, politics, etc is happening now.
 
TheEchosOfTheCyborg

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andymoogle said:
Eh, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, racism, etc is not exclusive to the right. Bigotry is not the one thing defining where you are on the political scale.
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Indeed, it's why I'm always skeptical when someone declares themselves leftist or a YouTuber leftist and just leaves it at that because leftist on what? To me just saying you're leftist is meaningless at this point because it barely describes what you're actual views are (and has been used as a shield for god knows how many grifters and right-wing arseholes).

Like I've seen in public and personally people who have left wing views on most topics suddenly turn bigot when the subject of Roma people (or the "G" word they would use) and blame them for actions that they had nothing to do with and were the results of white British travellers (which the also call the "G" word because most of the time they don't know the difference). I've seen a leftist person suddenly exclaim, with no prompting it's the US gays fault for people hunting the endangered California Condor because they spend to much money on protest that could be used on animal care and preservation (that was the biggest WTF day of university ever, the entire lecture hall just went silent and the guest lecturer literally had their mouth open for over a minute).

And it's the very true with transphobia, both online and offline, mostly due to ignorance or people refusing the believe their idol is transphobic and just go with it or they do know what transphobia and they just don't care enough or we're low enough on their list of priorities that they'll sacrifice us for economic left wing changes.

You see this all the time when you see trans people worried about elections given that transphobia is seeped into all the major parties here in the UK. We're suddenly the villains in many people's eyes if we don't want to vote for labour because of the TERF shit they've brought up, we're the ones who should shut up, the baddies who are wanting the Tories to win (Yeah, no we're not) and too many times does the transphobia suddenly come pouring in.
 
bytesized

bytesized

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Oct 27, 2017
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Yikes. Doesn't she know that that expression is not to degrade or reduce women to their birthing qualities but just to use precise language that doesn't exclude others in very specific contexts and situations? I thought she was more intelligent than this
 
bytesized

bytesized

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Oct 27, 2017
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Sad thing is that something will explain this to her, she will finally understand and come with an apology in a few days that will make her look incredibly stupid
 
Hilarious_Bearious

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Nov 4, 2017
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Amalthea said:
Obviously the European two-sex system is the only and absolute one!
https://indianexpress.com/article/w...but-europeans-enforced-specific-gender-roles/
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Thanks for sharing that article. I was trying to remember the name of the Samoan fa'afafine the other day when I was telling somebody about it. I remember listening to a podcast years ago with that hack Christopher Ryan (one of the authors of Sex at Dawn) who claimed that trans and non-binary people don't exist in hunter gatherer societies. I wanted to reach through the phone and strangle him.

Also can somebody explain why are these crusty old Gen Xers getting to call themselves the "young" Turks?
 
bloodyroarx

bloodyroarx

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Oct 27, 2017
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Didnt watch the video in the op at first and was very confused about the topic (stupid but I wanted a read on the room before I watched it)

But Pallete Swap said it best

Palette Swap said:
They're deep enough in punditry and online debates to know exactly what this means. They don't live in a vacuum where they're not exposed to all the ongoing political stances (I don't want to write "debates"). Hell, they make a living off that.

So all of this reads like "let's use a TERF talking point at this precise moment" and "we've always been against transphobia but who am I to condemn TERFism, freedom of speech".
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When I did watch the video I was so stunned by how just seemingly fucking random it is.
 
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excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

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bytesized said:
Sad thing is that something will explain this to her, she will finally understand and come with an apology in a few days that will make her look incredibly stupid
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Nah she grifted this talking point last year too

She's made 6 tweets about trans folk ever and 3 of them are whining about this (last year and this year)

She's not uneducated.
 
Keiriks

Keiriks

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Grifters gonna grift. It's always the same disingenuous reductive bullshit that falls apart the second you actually think about it even a little bit. Like according to their arguments there are a lot of cis women who apparently aren't actually women but if you hate trans people enough then I guess that doesn't matter.
 
Bengraven

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On Thanksgiving he was over at Hasan's place and sat down to debate with him and I learned a lot of where Cenk's brain is at.

He's one of those older liberals who's kind just stopped moving left as he aged and became wealthy, then ticked a few spaces right again before settling. He won't learn as things evolve or dare I say "progress".

As an old leftist, I battle this sometimes myself. But I don't have a national leftist platform.
 
Brat-Sampson

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Nov 16, 2017
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The confusion I have is that this complaint always seems to accept that it's a medically valid term, they just don't want it used casually as a replacement for just saying 'woman/women'. Then they fricken pop off at some non-existent strawman group who are apparently doing so, despite the fact I've only ever seen it used in medical contexts.

Hell, I checked the AOC interview mentioned and a) she's using that language for a deliberate reason in the case of rape and pregnancies and b) even Abbott takes care on his side to say 'person' instead of woman. Gregg Abbott is more reasonable on inclusivity than these whiners.
 
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Pirateluigi

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Oct 27, 2017
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Trup1aya said:
Cis Women who get offended by 'People with uterus' or "People who menstruate" are to self-centered and bigoted to wrap their heads around the fact that there are cis women who don't have uterus or don't menstruate.

Like, I've had this conversation with people who think such phrases "Take their identity away" and then their mind is blown when you remind them that they are arguing that hysterectomies and menopause mark the end of womanhood.

Then, you can go in for the double whammy and remind them that some trans women receive uterus transplants. That face when they are accidentally inclusive is priceless.
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This. My wife had a full hysterectomy and thus is not a person with a uterus nor is she a person who menstruates. But terf talking points are inherently anti feminist as well as transphobic.
 
Amalthea

Amalthea

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Dec 22, 2017
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Hilarious_Bearious said:
Thanks for sharing that article. I was trying to remember the name of the Samoan fa'afafine the other day when I was telling somebody about it. I remember listening to a podcast years ago with that hack Christopher Ryan (one of the authors of Sex at Dawn) who claimed that trans and non-binary people don't exist in hunter gatherer societies. I wanted to reach through the phone and strangle him.

Also can somebody explain why are these crusty old Gen Xers getting to call themselves the "young" Turks?
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I hope everyone interested can educate their friends with articles like this.

The thing with hunter gatherer societies (including the ones in Europe itself) is, that they indeed didn't have our modern idea of trans and non-binary identity, just as they didn't know about our traditional binary gender system unless one thinks that hunter-gatherers all over the world knew about Adam and Eve before the Abrahamic religions even existed (except maybe fanatic fools but they are beyond reasoning).
More likely is that hunter-gatherers had their own systems of gender roles that can or cannot initutively be understood by modern people, even in case said modern people are their most direct genetical and/or cultural descendants.
 
Hilarious_Bearious

Hilarious_Bearious

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Nov 4, 2017
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Amalthea said:
I hope everyone interested can educate their friends with articles like this.

The thing with hunter gatherer societies (including the ones in Europe itself) is, that they indeed didn't have our modern idea of trans and non-binary identity, just as they didn't know about our traditional binary gender system unless one thinks that hunter-gatherers all over the world knew about Adam and Eve before the Abrahamic religions even existed (except maybe fanatic fools but they are beyond reasoning).
More likely is that hunter-gatherers had their own systems of gender roles that can or cannot initutively be understood by modern people, even in case said modern people are their most direct genetical and/or cultural descendants.
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He was referring more to hunter-gatherer groups which exist today, or were well documented in recent history. For example gender diversity and acceptance has survived in indigenous Australian cultures despite colonial forces having such a destructive effect. Much of the tradition and lore was passed on.
 
Amalthea

Amalthea

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Hilarious_Bearious said:
He was referring more to hunter-gatherer groups which exist today, or were well documented in recent history. For example gender diversity and acceptance has survived in indigenous Australian cultures despite colonial forces having such a destructive effect. Much of the tradition and lore was passed on.
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Oh, ok. I guess he's still in the colonialist tradition of ethnologists who look at everything through their own cultural lense and either register or overlook facts based on that and broadly apply eurocentric concepts onto wildly different cultures (eg. Berdaches).
 
krazen

krazen

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They want to be fake oppressed so bad, lol. I am also sick of the 'both sides' where all I see is one being outright bigots towards trans folk while all they want to do is live their lives.
 
hjort

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The same Cenk who denied the Armenian genocide and doesn't want people to unionize. Fuck 'em.
 

Deleted member 14518

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What bugs me - for personal reasons - is: what about people who have had hysterectomies/ovariectomy and/or mastectomy? Do they cease to be woman? Or people who are intersexed? Or the myriad other things that can make "gender" hard to determine from their biology? And at the end of all that being trans is just another aspect of it all.

When you start policing the terms to tightly all that shit falls apart. Just let people fucking live their lives as they like.

Note: I can't watch the vid right now in work.

Bengraven said:
On Thanksgiving he was over at Hasan's place and sat down to debate with him and I learned a lot of where Cenk's brain is at.

He's one of those older liberals who's kind just stopped moving left as he aged and became wealthy, then ticked a few spaces right again before settling. He won't learn as things evolve or dare I say "progress".

As an old leftist, I battle this sometimes myself. But I don't have a national leftist platform.
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I've move away from a lot of "left" politics becuase its become so muddied the last decade. I'm much more interested in solid democracy (the more you have the more sensible your government at a national/local level starts to behave, ie more towards a social model of demcracy which is usually left anyway). And leave people to live their lives with the maximum freedom - which sounds libertarianist I suppose but god that's a complete minefield.
 
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L Thammy

L Thammy

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Oct 25, 2017
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I guess it's not the same conflating the terminology for men with the terminology of women since we exist in a patriarchal society and all, but if you call me a person with a penis, my reaction is that maybe I'd giggle. It's not something I'm used to being called but that just makes it an interesting phrase that I have to think about for a second longer. If I can see in context that it's meant to be more inclusive, I can appreciate that, and I gain absolutely nothing from opposing it.
 
Bengraven

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Vagabundo said:
What bugs me - for personal reasons - is: what about people who have had hysterectomies/ovariectomy and/or mastectomy? Do they cease to be woman? Or people who are intersexed? Or the myriad other things that can make "gender" hard to determine from their biology? And at the end of all that being trans is just another aspect of it all.

When you start policing the terms to tightly all that shit falls apart. Just let people fucking live their lives as they like.

Note: I can't watch the vid right now in work.



I've move away from a lot of "left" politics becuase its become so muddied the last decade. I'm much more interested in solid democracy (the more you have the more sensible your government at a national/local level starts to behave, ie more towards a social model of demcracy which is usually left anyway). And leave people to live their lives with the maximum freedom - which sounds libertarianist I suppose but god that's a complete minefield.
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I've always found is better to not label your politics, but the moment you do that people accuse you of being a nihilistic and egotistical libertarian or secretly conservative fascist.
 
L Thammy

L Thammy

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Fat4all said:
i fucking doubt it, building a straw man to get mad at
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Does it even matter if it's real or not? Not to criticize anyone from bringing it up, but even if cis women is addressed to the term, even to positions to them as synonyms for women is fundamentally tying gender to biological sex characteristics. The reason the terms are being used is specifically because gender and sex aren't the same, and if you recognize that it creates the need to differentiate them when you have to talk about something that involves one or the other.
 
TyraZaurus

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I called these people shit when Cenk was a carpetbagger running for office in California and had a history of buddying up with people who were downplaying the Armenian genocide. Nice to be validated.
 
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