• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Apr 11, 2020
1,235
Considering that the RTX 3090 routinely consumes over 375 W of power and has a peak power draw of over 450 W, making a high quality 850 W power supply obsolete since it couldn't supply enough power, I'm not sure Nvidia wants to continue using Samsung's fabrication nodes, even if Samsung gives Nvidia an aggressive discount on prebooking capacity on Samsung's fabrication nodes. I'm talking about for a console releasing at around 2023-2024.


(10:56 - 11:17)

So Ming Chi-Kuo predicted that the new iPad Pro would be the first Apple device to feature a Mini-LED display. So I wonder if and when the price of Mini-LED displays would decrease to the point where Nintendo might research into the viability of using one for a console releasing in 2023-2024, going by a recent LinkedIn job listing posted by Nintendo Technology Development in Redmond, Washington. And I'm not going to lie, I'm on board with a console releasing in 2023-2024 having a Mini-LED display since Mini-LED don't suffer from burn-in like OLED does. But I don't know if Mini-LED displays would have a significant price drop by then.

RTX3080/3090 are running 12 GDDR6X chip and are probably higher clocked on their power curves. A potential chip for a new switch will probably not be clocked that high for several reasons. Power consumption but mostly yields in the first place. And you're also underestimating the price difference between 8 nm and 7 nm (especially DUV).

Samsung's mobile S-AMOLED does not suffer from burn-in like LG's OLED does (in a 3-4 years life span).
 

Whatnoww

Member
Jun 26, 2019
133
RTX3080/3090 are running 12 GDDR6X chip and are probably higher clocked on their power curves. A potential chip for a new switch will probably not be clocked that high for several reasons. Power consumption but mostly yields in the first place. And you're also underestimating the price difference between 8 nm and 7 nm (especially DUV).

Samsung's mobile S-AMOLED does not suffer from burn-in like LG's OLED does (in a 3-4 years life span).

They definitely do suffer it though, which is an issue and will practically always be an issue as long as you can always use a device at max brightness unfortunately. Larger screens may not have as much of an issue because of the larger pixels, but it'll definitely crop up a lot even after a year of use. Might not happen for most devices but it'll definitely happen.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
It's important to note that when people talk about Gflops or Tflops, they're talking about them as a proxy for real-world performance (or at least they should be). The actual performance of a GPU (ie the speed at which it renders a given frame) is going to be limited by a number of potential bottlenecks, including floating point performance, integer performance, memory bandwidth, TMU performance, ROP performance, register memory, cache, etc., etc. Even within the rendering of a given frame, those bottlenecks could change, so for example one millisecond it could be integer-limited, the next it could be ROP limited. As such, the actual render time for a frame is going to be dependent on a number of different bottlenecks impacting different parts of the rendering pipeline.

In fact, it's likely that Ampere will basically never be floating-point limited, which means using Tflops as a measure of an Ampere GPU's performance at all is rather pointless.

This is why I'm talking about SMs and clock speeds rather than "cores" and Gflops/Tflops when I talk about any potential Ampere-powered future Nintendo device. An Ampere GPU with a given number of SMs at a given clock should outperform a Turing GPU with a similar configuration, but the comparison gives you a much better idea of the real-world performance than comparing theoretical Tflop counts.

As you mention in the first paragraph, TFLOPs can be an expression of SM*CLOCK as long as you label the architecture, it is an overall expression of that architecture's performance at a given clock.

Thing is, we can compare 2TFLOPs Ampere to 1.34TFLOPs Turing, and we know that Ampere is faster in general, those bottlenecks were not just a doubling of cuda cores, it also increased performance of tensor and rt cores, as well as other changes that we would need to dive into the white paper for, but the overall result is that the RTX 3070, a 20TFLOPs Ampere card is faster than the RTX 2080TI, a 13.4TFLOPs Turing card, that means your configuration is around 1.4TFLOPs Turing performance, it also as you mentioned is faster than Maxwell, one of the big new features that can offer a 20% uplift is VRS, so when comparing to Maxwell, it's over 1.7TFLOPs Maxwell that you are talking about on average.

When someone adds the architecture to the TFLOPs number, they are (whether they know it or not) expressing the overall performance of that architecture's SM/CU*Clock, and since these architectures maintain their SM/CU configurations, they are accurate to represent performance.

To use your performance metric, Ampere SM's are 40%+ faster than Turing SM's.
 

ShadowFox08

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
3,524
If Nintendo truly does end up targeting 4k for current switch games, via native or dlss, botw and odyssey could be among the top contenders, considering they have received the most post support from Nintendo after launch, with faster load times and AR support. But since they run 900p, scaling up to 4k requires 5.76x the pixels. I guess what I'm saying is that we could get a little more power.
 
Last edited:

Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,729
If Nintendo truly does end up targeting 4k for current switch games, via native or dlss, botw and odyssey could be among the top contenders, considering they have received the most post support from Nintendo after launch, with faster load times and AR support. But since they run 900p, scaling up to 4k requires 5.76x the pixels. I guess what I'm saying is that we could get a little more power.

Every game running 4K is a pipe dream, I don't care about dlls.

I think even most games, or perhaps any game running at 4K may be a pipedream too. Well see next year.
 

ShadowFox08

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
3,524
Every game running 4K is a pipe dream, I don't care about dlls.

I think even most games, or perhaps any game running at 4K may be a pipedream too. Well see next year.
Didn't say every game would, but that botw and odyssey running 4k via DLSS isn't impossible. They have been showcased for VR tech and increased load times, so they could be a part of the spotlight.

Yeah I'm keeping my expectations low.
 

NineTailSage

Member
Jan 26, 2020
1,449
Hidden Leaf
I don't know if this has any relation with discussion about the "Nintendo Switch 2", etc. But there's a rumour of the Snapdragon 775G, which is allegedly the successor to the Snapdragon 765G, being fabricated at 6 nm (nothing has been said about if Qualcomm's using TSMC's or Samsung's 6 nm fabrication nodes). And apparently the Snapdragon 775G is closely related to the Snapdragon 875 in terms of performance.

I think this does give a good indication of the manufacturing processes available to Nintendo with Samsung, even though these nodes currently aren't where they need to be for high powered devices like graphics cards they would work well for a device like the Switch.

www.phonearena.com

Snapdragon 875 will likely be followed by Snapdragon 775G, a 6nm flagship-rivaling chip

The new midtier chip will reduce the performance gap between high-end and midrange Android phones.

This article says pretty much the same thing but states that Qualcomm is using Samsung's 5nm and 6nm process because Apple has purchased the bulk of TSMC's 5nm. Samsung maybe behind TSMC (in the race to significant shrinkage) but by the time Nintendo is looking to upgrade the Switch completely, their 5nm process will be old and mature enough for them to have worked out yield issues.
 

Thraktor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
571
As you mention in the first paragraph, TFLOPs can be an expression of SM*CLOCK as long as you label the architecture, it is an overall expression of that architecture's performance at a given clock.

Thing is, we can compare 2TFLOPs Ampere to 1.34TFLOPs Turing, and we know that Ampere is faster in general, those bottlenecks were not just a doubling of cuda cores, it also increased performance of tensor and rt cores, as well as other changes that we would need to dive into the white paper for, but the overall result is that the RTX 3070, a 20TFLOPs Ampere card is faster than the RTX 2080TI, a 13.4TFLOPs Turing card, that means your configuration is around 1.4TFLOPs Turing performance, it also as you mentioned is faster than Maxwell, one of the big new features that can offer a 20% uplift is VRS, so when comparing to Maxwell, it's over 1.7TFLOPs Maxwell that you are talking about on average.

When someone adds the architecture to the TFLOPs number, they are (whether they know it or not) expressing the overall performance of that architecture's SM/CU*Clock, and since these architectures maintain their SM/CU configurations, they are accurate to represent performance.

To use your performance metric, Ampere SM's are 40%+ faster than Turing SM's.

Probably should have a big asterisk next to that "faster than a RTX 2080Ti", as that's based on Nvidia's market claims that didn't exactly pan out for the RTX 3080 (although the 3080 is still a very capable card, just not quite hitting Nvidia's claims). Going by actual measured performance of RTX 3080 vs RTX 2080Ti, (which is a straight-forward comparison, as they're both 68 SM GPUs), the 3080 provides approx 19% more performance per clock at 4K (less at lower resolutions, but then you're more likely to be CPU-limited). Of course this is not necessarily going to translate exactly to a far smaller GPU, or a console use-case vs a PC use-case, but it's as good as we'll get for a rough estimate at the moment.

In any case, my point about using flops as a measure post-Ampere wasn't about the people who are well-informed enough to know the difference between the metric as applied to different architectures, it's that many people don't keep a very close eye on these things and either don't consider a difference in architecture at all, or use rough rules of thumb like "Nvidia flops are better than AMD flops" which don't apply to Ampere (and to be honest didn't really apply to Turing/RDNA1 either). So if I were to say "Nintendo might release a 2Tflop Switch Pro next year" many people would misinterpret that as being 5x as powerful as the original Switch, or more powerful than the PS4, or half as powerful as the XBox Series X, none of which are necessarily true. I'd simply like to avoid those misunderstandings while posting any speculation on any hypothetical Ampere-based Switch hardware.

Every game running 4K is a pipe dream, I don't care about dlls.

I think even most games, or perhaps any game running at 4K may be a pipedream too. Well see next year.

Saying you "don't care about DLSS" kind of misses the point, though, the entire purpose of DLSS is to allow games to not run at 4K resolution, but still be scaled up to 4K with acceptable image quality. DLSS 2.0 on PC has shown good results with a 1080p internal resolution scaling to 4K, and if Nintendo were to implement it in a new Switch model I'd expect them to target around 1080p rendering resolution in docked mode. Many games already come close to it, and a 50%-100% performance improvement necessary to take most of Nintendo's titles to 1080p is hardly a stretch at this point.

Basically we have two data points which would suggest a DLSS-enabled Switch model outputting at 4K resolution. The first is Bloomberg (who I'd expect to be very reliable), stating that developers have been told to prepare for 4K output resolution. This could mean a number of things, whether it's lower resolutions (eg 1440p) scaled to 4K, some kind of checkerboard setup, or DLSS. The second is the job posting on Nvidia's website looking for a software developer to work on implementing AI technologies like DLSS for a console using a Tegra chip with a proprietary API. Combined, these two would heavily suggest that Nintendo plans to release a device which leverages DLSS to output at 4K resolutions.

It's not even particularly challenging from a technical point of view. As I pointed out on a previous page, if Nvidia's tensor sparsity acceleration applies to DLSS, then Nintendo could implement DLSS for a 4K/60 output with a 6 SM Ampere GPU. That's just 50% "bigger" than the original Switch GPU, which is hardly a huge leap for a device releasing 4+ years after the original.

That's not to say I fully expect Nintendo to release such a device, but given the evidence available to us, it's definitely a possibility.
 

Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,729
Saying you "don't care about DLSS" kind of misses the point, though, the entire purpose of DLSS is to allow games to not run at 4K resolution, but still be scaled up to 4K with acceptable image quality. DLSS 2.0 on PC has shown good results with a 1080p internal resolution scaling to 4K, and if Nintendo were to implement it in a new Switch model I'd expect them to target around 1080p rendering resolution in docked mode. Many games already come close to it, and a 50%-100% performance improvement necessary to take most of Nintendo's titles to 1080p is hardly a stretch at this point.

Basically we have two data points which would suggest a DLSS-enabled Switch model outputting at 4K resolution. The first is Bloomberg (who I'd expect to be very reliable), stating that developers have been told to prepare for 4K output resolution. This could mean a number of things, whether it's lower resolutions (eg 1440p) scaled to 4K, some kind of checkerboard setup, or DLSS. The second is the job posting on Nvidia's website looking for a software developer to work on implementing AI technologies like DLSS for a console using a Tegra chip with a proprietary API. Combined, these two would heavily suggest that Nintendo plans to release a device which leverages DLSS to output at 4K resolutions.

It's not even particularly challenging from a technical point of view. As I pointed out on a previous page, if Nvidia's tensor sparsity acceleration applies to DLSS, then Nintendo could implement DLSS for a 4K/60 output with a 6 SM Ampere GPU. That's just 50% "bigger" than the original Switch GPU, which is hardly a huge leap for a device releasing 4+ years after the original.

That's not to say I fully expect Nintendo to release such a device, but given the evidence available to us, it's definitely a possibility.

Ok that was poor wording.

What I meant that even if Nintendo uses dlls scaling, they would probably not go full 4k. If they could get away with using less tensor cores for something like 1440p upscaling (which would still be very impressive for that form factor), I don't see them going all in.

But well see next year.
 
Apr 11, 2020
1,235
What I expect from a new tegra ship would be to have at least the same SM count of the Xavier NX chip. Weither it be the 6 available SMs for NX or the full 8 SMs but I have doubts concerning the architecture and the node used for this chip.

While we may have evidence of the existence of a new tegra chip on 8 nm, I believe that it would be hard to have enough tensor cores for DLSS in less than 10 ms with 6 or 8 Turing/Volta SMs. The results would be the same for Desktop Ampere with basically the same amount of tensor performances. However, I understand that it would be possible to have half the RTX2060 tensor performances with 8 Tensor cores per SM in the same configuration as GA100. They might as well get ride of the RT cores as for RDNA with the lack of specific hardware accelerated RT die area. Nvidia would be fully capable of making an 8 SM chip on 8 nm (considering 6 SM being the bear minimum) in less than 130mm2 but they would be close to being able to make the same chip on 7 nm at the same price with a better power efficiency. The design would even be compatible with Samsung/TSMC 6 to 4 nm node for a 2022 switch lite/TV. There would be room for more SM but they will probably stick to Xavier SM count as the chip is already rumoured to be used in internal devkits units.

With regards to the CPU core count. I have absolutely no idea weither they would go for 8 cores, and thus sticking to Xavier and PS4/5 CPU core count, or 4+4 in the ARM standard cluster configuration. I don't even know if there room for 8 big cores in the standard ARM cluster configuration.

Ok that was poor wording.

What I meant that even if Nintendo uses dlls scaling, they would probably not go full 4k. If they could get away with using less tensor cores for something like 1440p upscaling (which would still be very impressive for that form factor), I don't see them going all in.

But well see next year.
TVs only support 1080p or 2160p outputs.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
7,981
TVs only support 1080p or 2160p outputs.

That's irrelevant to DLSS as it doesn't give you the final output.
I wonder if anyone's considering the post processing of the DLSS buffer. If you go from a 720p game to 4K DLSS, you end up needing to do 9x the post processing of the original, so games on the Switch that make heavy use of motion blur etc. suddenly get a lot more expensive.
 
Last edited:
Apr 11, 2020
1,235
That's irrelevant to DLSS as it doesn't give you the final output.
I wonder if anyone's considering the post processing of the DLSS buffer. If you go from a 720p game to 4K DLSS, you end up needing to do 9x the post processing of the original, so games on the Switch that make heavy use of motion blur etc. suddenly get a lot more expensive.
I was answering to this:
What I meant that even if Nintendo uses dlls scaling, they would probably not go full 4k. If they could get away with using less tensor cores for something like 1440p upscaling (which would still be very impressive for that form factor), I don't see them going all in.
I don't know what full 4K means but I understand that they need to output either 1080p or 4K with or without DLSS. I believe that post processing is done before DLSS in the render pipeline. I may be wrong here.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,981
I don't know what full 4K means but I understand that they need to output either 1080p or 4K with or without DLSS.
It's likely that they would output from the Switch at 4k, but they can scale up to that 4k from any size input beforehand. (in theory a new dock could accept any typical resolution and scale that up instead, but it's not how it currently works)

I believe that post processing is done before DLSS in the render pipeline. I may be wrong here.

I will try to dig up the video, but basically DLSS comes before tone mapping, motion blur and bloom,bokeh etc. and before you draw the HUD. All of that would need to be performed on the 4K image if you were using DLSS to create 4K image. Doing DLSS to 1440p, post processing, and then doing a simple scaling up from there would work out a lot faster.

edit
www.youtube.com

GTC 2020: DLSS 2.0 - Image Reconstruction for Real-time Rendering with Deep Learning

In this talk, Edward Liu from NVIDIA Applied Deep Learning Research delves into the latest research progress on Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS), which us...
45:55 for the part on post processing.
 
Last edited:

fwd-bwd

Member
Jul 14, 2019
726
There would be room for more SM but they will probably stick to Xavier SM count as the chip is already rumoured to be used in internal devkits units.
Sorry I must have missed this rumor. Would you please cite the source?
With regards to the CPU core count. I have absolutely no idea weither they would go for 8 cores, and thus sticking to Xavier and PS4/5 CPU core count, or 4+4 in the ARM standard cluster configuration. I don't even know if there room for 8 big cores in the standard ARM cluster configuration.
Isn't the 10w Xavier NX limited to 4 cores and the 15w 6 cores? If the "Pro" SoC bears any resemblance to Xavier NX as you speculated, a 4 or 4+4 configuration seems more plausible.

Since Orin won't be out till 2022, you may be right about the new SoC being more similar to Xavier NX than Orin. On that note, I'm going to bring up the Clara AGX devkit again. It marries Xavier and Turing, and runs on as little as 10w. Since the kit was announced in Sep. 2018 and started accepting "early access" applications in Dec. 2019, it's been shrouded in mystery—not so much as a spec sheet was ever released. I think that we probably will hear more about Clara AGX in GTC 2020. It just might give us as much hint of the "Pro" SoC as the Nano Next.
 
Apr 11, 2020
1,235
Sorry I must have missed this rumor. Would you please cite the source?
I may have exaggerated z0m3le words here.

Isn't the 10w Xavier NX limited to 4 cores and the 15w 6 cores? If the "Pro" SoC bears any resemblance to Xavier NX as you speculated, a 4 or 4+4 configuration seems more plausible.
Xavier NX is running with 6 cores in a 2*3 cluster configuration with one inactive cluster. The full chip has 4 clusters with two core for each cluster. We are far from the usual DynamIQ 4+4 ARM cores in one cluster or even TX1's dual (quad core) cluster configuration. I don't know if it is possible to put 8*A78 in one cluster.

Since Orin won't be out till 2022, you may be right about the new SoC being more similar to Xavier NX than Orin. On that note, I'm going to bring up the Clara AGX devkit again. It marries Xavier and Turing, and runs on as little as 10w. Since the kit was announced in Sep. 2018 and started accepting "early access" applications in Dec. 2019, it's been shrouded in mystery—not so much as a spec sheet was ever released. I think that we probably will hear more about Clara AGX in GTC 2020. It just might give us as much hint of the "Pro" SoC as the Nano Next.
We can probably rule out Orin for any new Nintendo hardware. It is now confirmed that it would be 18BTr on 8 nm. It would be a very big chip (smaller than Xavier) even with the highest theorical density for 8 or even 7 nm. That being said, power consumption would not be a problem for a switch-sized device. Price too as we will probably see with RDNA2 vs Ampere. But I don't see Nintendo using a 12*A78 chip @1GHz in handheld mode. That would be overkill.
 

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
We can probably rule out Orin for any new Nintendo hardware. It is now confirmed that it would be 18BTr on 8 nm. It would be a very big chip (smaller than Xavier) even with the highest theorical density for 8 or even 7 nm. That being said, power consumption would not be a problem for a switch-sized device. Price too as we will probably see with RDNA2 vs Ampere. But I don't see Nintendo using a 12*A78 chip @1GHz in handheld mode. That would be overkill.
Well Li Auto said in its official press release that Orin is fabricated at 7 nm (Li Auto didn't say whether it's TSMC's or Samsung's 7 nm fabrications nodes though).
 

fwd-bwd

Member
Jul 14, 2019
726
Xavier NX is running with 6 cores in a 2*3 cluster configuration with one inactive cluster. The full chip has 4 clusters with two core for each cluster. We are far from the usual DynamIQ 4+4 ARM cores in one cluster or even TX1's dual (quad core) cluster configuration. I don't know if it is possible to put 8*A78 in one cluster.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
 

Onix555

Member
Apr 23, 2019
3,381
UK
7nm on 2022 seems kinda outdated 🤔. But hey, it's automobile
You'll find that a lot of technology on aircraft are outdated by the time they role out. But the thing is they have to go through years of government inspection and regulation just to ok'd for production.

The same is true of auto systems, and for those like Orin that do L5 (fully autonamous) its all the more critical.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Good and interesting podcast from ours Nate, what we could expect from "Pro"


They are spinning the same wheels that we are. The difference is that we can freely discuss the possibilities of bloomberg's report, but Nate can't really be that free here because people will think he has inside sources and he is confirming their information, when he still hasn't heard from devs, because most devs won't know until next year. There is a small group of developers that would need to know about this more powerful Switch to have 4K games ready and that is people making exclusives for the Switch to release around this new model. 90% of those titles are first party, heck maybe all of them are. It really limits insiders right now to depend on these Japanese sources and hardware production line sources, because it isn't where they get their most reliable information, if they get any at all from those sources.

Again not to knock them, I think they are doing everything they can, and MVG is also under NDAs too, so even if he did end up knowing anything about it, he wouldn't be able to talk about it anymore.
 
Last edited:

Simba1

Member
Dec 5, 2017
5,390
Sorry mate, but I ain't watching a 1 hour podcast about videogames. In 2 words, what is he expecting? Still a relatively modest upgrade?

In short, he dont expect bigger upgrade or difference, something more like "New 3DS" Switch type of revision.

I agree with plenty of points he made about this expected revision.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
In short, he dont expect bigger upgrade or difference, something more like "New 3DS" Switch type of revision.

I agree with plenty of points he made about this expected revision.
Problem is he hasn't heard from any dev sources yet, if tomorrow a dev source of his says the new Switch is able to do 4K with upgraded graphics, then he would back bloomberg's report. Insiders aren't getting sources for this so they are just going with their gut and maybe being a bit safe because they don't want to be seen as backing bloomberg without actually having knowledge of this new device, so they can't even openly speculate about bloomberg being correct without someone attaching them as part of the source for such a rumor.
 

Simba1

Member
Dec 5, 2017
5,390
Problem is he hasn't heard from any dev sources yet, if tomorrow a dev source of his says the new Switch is able to do 4K with upgraded graphics, then he would back bloomberg's report. Insiders aren't getting sources for this so they are just going with their gut and maybe being a bit safe because they don't want to be seen as backing bloomberg without actually having knowledge of this new device, so they can't even openly speculate about bloomberg being correct without someone attaching them as part of the source for such a rumor.

I dont see any problem, he just said his "educated" opinion,
like I wrote, I agree with most of his points.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
I dont see any problem, he just said his "educated" opinion,
like I wrote, I agree with most of his points.
I am not saying that he is wrong for having that opinion, but educated is a bit much, because what he is really saying is 'based on what we've seen in the past' sort of thing, he also believes for instance that Microsoft might publish elderscrolls and starfield on Playstation. My point is that he isn't speaking with any authority on the matter, nor is he trying to say he has any, and thus we can't elevate it beyond anyone else who is speaking on the topic yet, but I'm fully trusting in Nate, so as soon as he has a source and says anything about next year's model based on that source, I'm 100% behind him. He is very careful with what he does spread as rumors.
 

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
www.barrons.com

SoftBank Deal to Sell Arm Has $1.25 Billion Breakup Clause. Nvidia Pays $750 Million Licensing Fee.

Nvidia pays $750 million for the licensing of intellectual property.
Nvidia has agreed to pay SoftBank Group $1.25 billion in the event that the planned sale of the chip design house Arm Holdings to Nvidia fails to close.

That sum has been prepaid to SoftBank (ticker: SFTBY) as part of a $2 billion cash payment due from Nvidia (NVDA) at signing, according to a securities filing detailing terms of the deal. The rest of the $2 billion reflects $750 million paid to Arm—not its parent, SoftBank—for the licensing of intellectual property.

It isn't immediately clear why Nvidia would need to pay a licensing fee for technology that it is in the process of buying. SoftBank, Arm, and Nvidia all declined to comment.

The announced price tag of the deal was $40 billion, which includes $12 billion in cash, 44.3 million Nvidia (NVDA) shares valued at an estimated $21.5 billion, a $5 billion earn-out based on the company's financial performance in the March 2022 fiscal year, and up to $1.5 billion in restricted stock units for Arm employees.

The $40 billion sales price seems a little exaggerated. If you back out the stock going to Arm employees and the license fee going to Arm, the total drops to $37.75 billion. And if for some reason the earn-out failed to pay out, the total would drop to $32.75 billion —just a hair above the $32 billion SoftBank paid for Arm in 2016.

Shares of SoftBank were down 2.2%, to $30.87, on Friday. Nvidia was off 2.2%, to $487.42.
I think it's interesting that Nvidia paid $750 million to Arm "for the licensing of intellectual property". I wonder if this means that Nvidia will have a perpetual licence to Arm's future architectural and Core licences if Nvidia successfully acquires Arm by late 2021.
 
Last edited:

NineTailSage

Member
Jan 26, 2020
1,449
Hidden Leaf
You'll find that a lot of technology on aircraft are outdated by the time they role out. But the thing is they have to go through years of government inspection and regulation just to ok'd for production.

The same is true of auto systems, and for those like Orin that do L5 (fully autonamous) its all the more critical.

Yeah I believe there's actually an automobile grade level manufacturing process that is designed to stand up to more extreme conditions.
 

Onix555

Member
Apr 23, 2019
3,381
UK
Yeah I believe there's actually an automobile grade level manufacturing process that is designed to stand up to more extreme conditions.
Yes, it's stuff like thermal resistance to extreme heat and cold. Tamper resistance. Shock resistance. etc.etc.
And then in military contracts there's conditions like "has to survive the EMP blast of a tactical nuclear weapon".
 

Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,729
Yes, it's stuff like thermal resistance to extreme heat and cold. Tamper resistance. Shock resistance. etc.etc.
And then in military contracts there's conditions like "has to survive the EMP blast of a tactical nuclear weapon".
Haha how do you even test that? Short of setting off a nuke.
 

Onix555

Member
Apr 23, 2019
3,381
UK
Haha how do you even test that? Short of setting off a nuke.
You can generate EMP's with electromagnets (which is where the name comes in), although simulating an actual stratosphere strike is extremely difficult.
Scary weapons, the film THREADS has a pretty good interpretation of a preliminary attack

www.youtube.com

Threads - Bombing Scene (1984)

A realistic depiction of a nuclear attack on the city of Sheffield, England. (Produced by the BBC)
 

Thraktor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
571

It's worth noting that Nvidia's card partners published spec sheets for the RTX 3080 claiming it was manufactured on 7nm just a few weeks before it was unveiled. If Gainward can manufacture a load of RTX 3080 cards without knowing the manufacturing process, then I wouldn't put huge money on Li Auto knowing Orin's manufacturing process. It could be 7nm, but I wouldn't rule out 8nm or 5nm. Not that it makes much difference to whatever chip Nintendo would end up with, though.

www.barrons.com

SoftBank Deal to Sell Arm Has $1.25 Billion Breakup Clause. Nvidia Pays $750 Million Licensing Fee.

Nvidia pays $750 million for the licensing of intellectual property.

I think it's interesting that Nvidia paid $750 million to Arm "for the licensing of intellectual property". I wonder if this means that Nvidia will have a perpetual licence to Arm's future architectural and Core licences if Nvidia successfully acquires Arm by late 2021.

Well if Nvidia own ARM, they shouldn't even need a license, they'll already own all the IP. This payment is to cover the case of Nvidia's purchase of ARM not actually going through. My guess is that this allows Nvidia to develop ARM chips over the next 18 months on the assumption that they have full licenses to all ARM cores/IP, and to guarantee that they would still have those licenses even if the purchase fell through.
 

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
It's worth noting that Nvidia's card partners published spec sheets for the RTX 3080 claiming it was manufactured on 7nm just a few weeks before it was unveiled. If Gainward can manufacture a load of RTX 3080 cards without knowing the manufacturing process, then I wouldn't put huge money on Li Auto knowing Orin's manufacturing process. It could be 7nm, but I wouldn't rule out 8nm or 5nm. Not that it makes much difference to whatever chip Nintendo would end up with, though.
Hopefully we'll get our answer next week when Jensen Huang hosts the GTC Online keynote.

Well if Nvidia own ARM, they shouldn't even need a license, they'll already own all the IP. This payment is to cover the case of Nvidia's purchase of ARM not actually going through. My guess is that this allows Nvidia to develop ARM chips over the next 18 months on the assumption that they have full licenses to all ARM cores/IP, and to guarantee that they would still have those licenses even if the purchase fell through.
Well we don't know what types of concessions Nvidia has to make in order to legally be the parent company of Arm (especially if Nvidia wants regulatory from China, who's likely to block the acquisition due to the fear that the US government would block technology companies in China from acquiring future Arm architectural and Core licences once Nvidia acquires Arm, and maybe the European Union since the European Union wants to reduce economic dependency on the US).
 
Apr 11, 2020
1,235
Hopefully we'll get our answer next week when Jensen Huang hosts the GTC Online keynote.


Well we don't know what types of concessions Nvidia has to make in order to legally be the parent company of Arm (especially if Nvidia wants regulatory from China, who's likely to block the acquisition due to the fear that the US government would block technology companies in China from acquiring future Arm architectural and Core licences once Nvidia acquires Arm, and maybe the European Union since the European Union wants to reduce economic dependency on the US).
I have the feeling that we won't know anything about this new tegra nano next thing. We heard about Shield TV 2019 after the release of Mariko units and I suspect the first gen nano to be running with the old TX1 on 20 nm considering the fact that it consumes as much power as the 350mm2 Xavier chip in the NX 10W power profil.
 

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
I have the feeling that we won't know anything about this new tegra nano next thing. We heard about Shield TV 2019 after the release of Mariko units and I suspect the first gen nano to be running with the old TX1 on 20 nm considering the fact that it consumes as much power as the 350mm2 Xavier chip in the NX 10W power profil.
Although it's possible nothing related to the new Nintendo Switch model mentioned by Bloomberg is going to be mentioned and/or announced at GTC Online, I think there might be a chance that Nvidia might go into more detail about Clara AGX; and/or Nvidia might confirm that Orin is fabricated at 7 nm, or refute that Orin is fabricated at 7 nm and confirm that Orin is fabricated at 8 nm, and reveal which company's fabrication nodes are used for fabricating Orin.
7 more days to go.
 

b3llydrum

Member
Feb 21, 2018
4,147
Assuming this is true, the performance improvement between the Nintendo Switch and the "Nintendo Switch Pro" could potentially be bigger than the performance improvement between the Nintendo 3DS and the New Nintendo 3DS. Of course, I don't expect the "Nintendo Switch Pro" to be on par with the Xbox Series S. 5 October 2020 can't come soon enough.
Sorry im out of the loop, whats october 5?
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,028
I really doubt that anything said or revealed at GTC will have any meaning for a SoC which may end up in next version of Switch.
GTC is HPC and AI event only and these chips are firmly in their own category now, almost completely unrelated to gaming.
As a highlight of this - GA100 is made at N7 but gaming GA10x parts clearly aren't.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
Late, but it's more than that.
Pretty much the entire "graphics driver" is part of nnSdk.
And nnSdk is sorta, uh, included with every official (as in, non-homebrew) program.
Do you have a source for that? Because according to SwitchBrew, there does appear to be a Switch GPU driver in the OS:

Even if it was just the userspace portion, though, I'm pretty sure the Switch supports dynamic linking, so it wouldn't make any sense to actually include that in games.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.