Gotta tell ya. ERA, never fails when it comes to some members completely missing the forest for the trees here.
Not only do I find this very ironic, but if you aren't going to engage with people's arguments this just smells like defeat.
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Ben & Jerry's cofounder Ben Cohen has donated over $1 million to an organisation aimed at ending military support for Ukraine
- Thread starter The_Iceman2288
- Start date
Not only do I find this very ironic, but if you aren't going to engage with people's arguments this just smells like defeat.
You may wish to read the article and see all the dumb offensive bullshit that is being argued by this organization, of which Cohen is happily the largest funder. He may personally state a bland pro-diplomancy, anti-military funding position, but the people he's financially supporting are arguing much more specific nonsense that wants kowtow to Russian interests and let the Ukrainian people rot.
You still dodging the question what ceasefire and peace even means and what are Ukraine going to do without weapons in the meanwhile? Russia is commiting genocide and war crimes all over ukraine with or without weapons. Peace and ceasefire are also terms Ukraine has to accept as is their decision and right and they've said nothing less than taking back all territories are necessary for peace to begin. This war can stop just as easily stop the moment russia gets the fuck out of Ukraine. They're the ones invading.
It's pretty telling that if the situation were changed to the US invading Mexico, claiming the land was always ours, these same people would have a conniption and suddenly peace would be entirely at the mercy of the US. then if you have people telling other countries that they can't support Mexico's self-defense because it isn't promoting peace, they would be rightfully denounced as kooks.
This is only happening because the US is on the correct side for once and it's breaking peoples brains.
Sad thing is that it's apathy and appeasement is what led to this war in the first place. Putin got a slap on his finger after Russia invaded Georgia, no one even remembers Chechnya, and nothing happened when Crimea got annexed except for some sanctions. Unfortunately, with nukes we are indeed limited in ways we can help Ukraine, a direct confrontation with Russia with the combined might of NATO would cross those red lines that could lead to nuclear calamity. There are other countries like Poland who are also itching to help more directly but also can't because of that. Fortunately, aiding Ukraine with desperately needed military aid to defend themselves does not cross those red lines. And I do agree we should do more in that aid, giving them more and stronger air defense, modern tanks, planes and NATO equipment.
If the west had continued to play into Putin's ambitions and continued appeasement like with Crimea Ukraine would probably have been conquered by now, the country would have been completely locked down, and we would have to witness genocide in the multitude of hundreds of thousands all across Ukraine until they were completely subservient. Military aid has already ruined most of Putin's plans for Ukraine, devastated Russia internally creating a huge deterrent of what they can do, so there is nothing he wants more than a pause in the war to lick his wounds so he can recruit and train 400k new conscripts to fill the gaps to continue the war half a year or so. The naivete thinking you can continue appeasement with a tyrannical dictator like Putin is incomprehensible and just ignores every single example of history we have.
This is why useful idiots like Cohen is what Putin craves the most right now.
Genuine question here: do you mean tankies or all leftists? You seem to be really mad at the entire left movement in general over your posts, so it made me wonder and I'd appreciate you clarifying. It's quite a broad movement, with many including myself, fucking despising tankies.
I mean Tankies. But any online leftist group that entertains them and doesn't call them out isn't helping their case.
I've sadly seen plenty of leftists out there who do not seem to agree with Tankies at all yet seem content to tolerate their crap.
I still remember they tried the same shit in the ukraine thread at the beginning but mods started banning them when they went on with their usual bs which caused them to stop it in the OT.
You can't be anti-war without condemning the instigator and perpetrator of said conflict, or worse, discounting their agency or even excusing it as an act of self-determination. If you're just pro-genocide, then you might as well be efficient and call for more weapons for the aggressor to "end" the conflict quickly.
You can't be against any and all American interventionism and then advocate for a different form of it in the same breath. The US also can't both be doing too much or too little in terms of a specified type of intervention.
You can't condemn one campaign of aggression and then condone or excuse another one in a different part of the world between different actors and be logically consistent. If you truly care about people, at least, beyond the trappings of geopolitics.
Things are a god damn mess.
You can't be against any and all American interventionism and then advocate for a different form of it in the same breath. The US also can't both be doing too much or too little in terms of a specified type of intervention.
You can't condemn one campaign of aggression and then condone or excuse another one in a different part of the world between different actors and be logically consistent. If you truly care about people, at least, beyond the trappings of geopolitics.
Things are a god damn mess.
it still baffles me that people are willing to either ignore or downplay how vile TheGrayzone and people like Mate are
Why are people mollycoddling a guy giving millions of dollars to an organization that wants to stop giving weapons to Ukraine?
He isn't naive, he is a jackass.
He isn't a college freshmamn that just read Horward Zinn for the first time. He is a smart business man giving a million dollars to an organization spouting Kremlin talking points.
He isn't naive, he is a jackass.
He isn't a college freshmamn that just read Horward Zinn for the first time. He is a smart business man giving a million dollars to an organization spouting Kremlin talking points.
User Banned (Permanently): Troll Account
if you think it's not America's job to kill bad guys and arm good guys you're incredibly naive and a tankie you have no rizz. before you open your dumb fucking mouths again, take time to read more literature on the subject (the official ukraine war thread on resetera)
i did a vibecheck using the information you make public to other users and I can tell you're a pacifist like me who doesn't fetishize war and suffering at all
Being a passive aggressive troll that supports genocide doesn't make you clever.
all this 'genocide stuff' is what is happening now and would continue if it wasn't for war.
Oh I know, but that's not to say he shouldn't be coddled, either. If you are giving a million bucks to something, I am assuming you at least looked at it.
To engage with this sincerely: The Russian invasion of Ukraine has involved several actions that are arguable, and by many parties recognised, as genocide, being acts motivated with the destruction or displacement of an ethnic group, particularly on the basis of it being said ethnic group. Whether that was the massacre of civilians in places like Bucha early into the current invasion, or the 'evacuation' - read: kidnapping - of Ukrainian children from occupied territories, to then be forcefully adopted by Russian citizens. This is what Putin was really charged with by the International Criminal Court
Russia already kidnapped thousands of children to turn them into Russians. They are also eradicating Ukrainian culture in all their annexed territories, because they don't belive in exsitence of Ukraine.
I think it needs to be said that pacifism is a valid worldview and that you are not stupid or a coward for being a pacifist.
But donating money to the cause of disarming only one side of a conflict is not pacifism. That is intervening in a conflict with the impact of helping the aggressor. That is very, very stupid, and harms the cause of pacifism.
And please stop responding to an obvious troll/alt account.
But donating money to the cause of disarming only one side of a conflict is not pacifism. That is intervening in a conflict with the impact of helping the aggressor. That is very, very stupid, and harms the cause of pacifism.
And please stop responding to an obvious troll/alt account.
Not sure what you mean by implying that people here are exaggerating stuff.
It's a war motivated by a desire of denying the Ukraine nation, people and culture the right to exist. There are deportations, children being sent to Russia in order to be made into Russian citizens denying their origins and multiple war crimes against both civilians and military personnel.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrGZ66uKcl0
I mean if you think about it, it's always beneficial to just let the violent authoritative aggressor, who sees no limit to their borders, and views other ethnicities as inferior, just take its neighboring countries. When the world let Nazi Germany take Poland the war ended early and no one was hurt. Everyone knows this. Dummies.
But guys hear me out. What if instead of us giving you weapons to defend yourselves against this genocidal invader, we were to just find "a diplomatic solution" that Putin agrees to, as a reward for him destroying your homes, massacring your families and kidnapping your children? Maybe instead of seeing such a response as incentive to continue his aim to exterminate the Ukrainian nation, culture and people, he would for some reason stop utilizing this tactic which we've now made successful? Because he's clearly one of those nice disingenuous war criminals who you can trust. If you instead opt to continue defending yourselves against this genocide, the blood from prolonging the invader's war is on your hands.
Imagine saying things like this to the families of the dead strewn on the streets. It is impossible for me to understand people who think along those lines. It's not only fucked beyond belief, it's impossibly nonsensical and daft. It's an idiotic and fucking disgusting mentality. Especially so with the attempts at ascribing moral righteousness to it. You pretend to be pro-Ukraine while arguing for weakening Ukraine's defense, actively dismissing and going against Ukraine's explicit requests. You pretend to be anti-war while supporting the success of the aggressor of a genocidal war. You pretend to be righteous while being a dire fucking piece of shit.
I hope and believe that people like this are a vast minority. Like those morally repugnant dunces in the WW2 photo. They're barely better than the Nazis, but there's like ten of them. Shame when it's someone who has the means to attempt meaningful steps towards their fucked up bullshit position like this Ben Cohen prick.
Imagine saying things like this to the families of the dead strewn on the streets. It is impossible for me to understand people who think along those lines. It's not only fucked beyond belief, it's impossibly nonsensical and daft. It's an idiotic and fucking disgusting mentality. Especially so with the attempts at ascribing moral righteousness to it. You pretend to be pro-Ukraine while arguing for weakening Ukraine's defense, actively dismissing and going against Ukraine's explicit requests. You pretend to be anti-war while supporting the success of the aggressor of a genocidal war. You pretend to be righteous while being a dire fucking piece of shit.
I hope and believe that people like this are a vast minority. Like those morally repugnant dunces in the WW2 photo. They're barely better than the Nazis, but there's like ten of them. Shame when it's someone who has the means to attempt meaningful steps towards their fucked up bullshit position like this Ben Cohen prick.
I completely agree. I meant that there's a cult of poor wealth worshipers that say this kind of thing must be right because how could a rich person also be wrong.
In this case Ben's just making it worse for the world and amplifying suffering with his money. Appeasement doesn't work and we have an example from not very long ago.
Not all leftists are tankies, and many countries in the west are governed by leftist parties or alliances. Bad take tbh.
I am glad he is not still running the company so I can continue to sometimes enjoy the icecream in ignorant bliss, but sheesh..
Tankies, pls.
I think people taking umbrage with the term may appreciate the update of neo-tankies, if they should so please.
Just like how nazis have their updated neo-nazi term to show that it ain't all about Hitler's Germany anymore, just the juicy essential racism. Neo-tankies are all about the juicy essential anti-west/americanism. Or if we like alliteration, then Today-Tankies.
Tankies, pls.
I think people taking umbrage with the term may appreciate the update of neo-tankies, if they should so please.
Just like how nazis have their updated neo-nazi term to show that it ain't all about Hitler's Germany anymore, just the juicy essential racism. Neo-tankies are all about the juicy essential anti-west/americanism. Or if we like alliteration, then Today-Tankies.
"I just want peace, and I don't care how many dead Ukrainians it takes to get there."
Summed up his thoughts for him.
Summed up his thoughts for him.
Is... is that a flavor?
I've been enjoying the Talenti Gelato Salted Chocolate Churro that tastes kinda like Cinnamon Toast Crunch had icecream with some okay chocolate added.
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Oh looks like it's not available in stores here yet. Same with the candy bar partnered flavor they have. I dunno why.
I fucking hate these cowards that don't get that Russia is the bad guy in this situation and that the ENTIRE WORLD can't let Russia take Ukraine.
This should be used as an example of what happens if a country tries to conquer another, instead of just letting them win.
I fucking hate "leftists/progressives" like this.
This should be used as an example of what happens if a country tries to conquer another, instead of just letting them win.
I fucking hate "leftists/progressives" like this.
Even that picture is missing the start: the Russian occupation of Moldova's Transnistria region, which they've been occupying for over 3 decades.
Putin has been in genocide business for decades. The scale of human suffering caused Putin's Russia internationally and domestically has often been ignored.
To attempt to stop military aid to Ukraine is morally wrong. Something that Trump would do.
To attempt to stop military aid to Ukraine is morally wrong. Something that Trump would do.
Abkhazia is in Georgia. Russia supported separatists there in 1992-1993 and then fully invaded the region and other Georgian territories in 2008.
I am aware, but above that it has Transnistria
1992: Russia occupied Transnistria
We are talking about this tweet, right?
Lol my bad, I didn't see the Transnistria part of the image because the embed doesn't show it.