Bloomberg: "Game developers, speaking anonymously... said that Nintendo has asked them to make their games 4K ready"
- Thread starter Civilstrife
- Start date
give me steady 60 fps first... a good ammount of games on switch fails to do even that, way more important than 4K imo
The Switch is a weird console compared to previous generations and tech is advancing pretty quickly nowadays.
Also, maybe what Nintendo considers a Switch 2 ins't what many consider a Switch 2.
Off-Topic, but is anyone else getting annoyed by these damn pop-up ads on mobile? It's like a new one shows up literally every minute.
If its over 1 TFLOPs and has DLSS, it sure as hell can get native 4k on existing 1080p switch games. Mabe even 900p games. The closer to PS4 in TFLOPs the better. Just getting 1.6 TFLOPs alone can allow native 4k resolution for existing 1080p switch games (assuming we get a similar resolution boost). But likely DLSS will be added in the mix, as it will help with Switch's bandwidth bottlenecks, due to mobile memory restrictions. I dont' expect switch pro getting more than 51.2 to 59 GB/s bandwidth.
with DLSS you can free up GPU you'd usually use for upresing natively, for extra performance in framerates while you use the tensor cores to get 4k like resolution or whatever resolution you are targeting, in the same time.
DLSS has existed for a while. Turing isn't exactly new for instance. It's also available on Tegra Xavier. Now I'm not betting on this leak though.
I disagree. If we really are getting native 4k support for switch pro next year, then it will likely be for existing switch games are are 900-1080p, and switch games moving forward (mostly 1st party). Just like Xbone S --> X Bone X. Not necessarily any new games(unless third parties want to make exclusive ones.. likely ports on xbone/ps4 that are already out), but offer better framerate and resolution like PS4 Pro and X Series X.
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DLSS isn't really "native" though, not that it really matters considering how amazing DLSS looks.
Nintendo is making $$$ on hardware. Maybe they asked nvidia: what's the best you can do if we invest 50$ extra, and nvidia came with the suggestion of adding tensor cores as adoption of DLSS is important for Nvidia. I think xavier etc already use tensor cores anyways so it's not like it's a completely new thing for Nvidia to add to the Tegra.
If they can combine it with a smaller node that might save them enough battery to release a higher clockspeed profile, that combined with DLSS makes this a cheap "pro" solution with great results on the same architecture. Games that don't use DLSS could still run at the higher clockspeed profile.
And it would allow devs to render at 540 but still output at 720 (while games that currently hit 1080 could output 4k)
If they can combine it with a smaller node that might save them enough battery to release a higher clockspeed profile, that combined with DLSS makes this a cheap "pro" solution with great results on the same architecture. Games that don't use DLSS could still run at the higher clockspeed profile.
And it would allow devs to render at 540 but still output at 720 (while games that currently hit 1080 could output 4k)
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Oh, neat!
Still though, I don't see them putting into a refresh system.
Though that definitely bodes well for the Switch 2 if Nintendo go with NVIDIA again.
Interesenting. Is seems like machine learning for image procesing, if I understanded correctly.
Why should everyone else make their games 4K ready while Nintendo releases Super Mario 3D All Stars 4K for $70 in April?
I don't care if this is true or not.
All I'm interested in is that a new Switch model comes out with a 1080p screen, various QoL improvements and a CPU/GPU/Bandwidth/RAM upgrade to much better handle 1080p in portable and also in docked modes. Games that previously ran below native HD 720p due to performance issues can now potentially run in at least native 720p in portable mode and native 1080p docked. I'm looking at you, Monolith.
Now something like Dragon Quest XI wouldn't magically improve other than perhaps fps and resolution, however due to the increased horsepower, technically the machine could handle a version of the game that is closer to the PS4 version (more geometry, more detail) but 720p30 in both modes. Not that SE would ever bother to due such a thing.
A nicer Skyrim port would always be possible and if GTA V were to, by some miracle, show up on Switch, the Switch Pro would not struggle to run a version that was almost on par with the Xbox One version, but at 720p instead of 1080p.
If Metriod Prime 4 is still coming to the current Switch, say in 2023, the Switch Pro should be able to handle it 1080p60 docked, 900p portable mode, while the Switch gets 900p60 and 720p60, plus higher resolution textures, etc. Metroid Prime Trilogy HD gets to run in native 1080p with highest res textures and improved lighting of the remaster in your hands. Only 720p portable for non-Pro owners.
blah blah blah.
I just hope Nintendo throws us a bone next year.
It is literally going to be 3 to 3.5 years (perhaps longer but i hope not) from now before their next-gen hybrid system (Switch 2 or whatever) comes out.
All I'm interested in is that a new Switch model comes out with a 1080p screen, various QoL improvements and a CPU/GPU/Bandwidth/RAM upgrade to much better handle 1080p in portable and also in docked modes. Games that previously ran below native HD 720p due to performance issues can now potentially run in at least native 720p in portable mode and native 1080p docked. I'm looking at you, Monolith.
Now something like Dragon Quest XI wouldn't magically improve other than perhaps fps and resolution, however due to the increased horsepower, technically the machine could handle a version of the game that is closer to the PS4 version (more geometry, more detail) but 720p30 in both modes. Not that SE would ever bother to due such a thing.
A nicer Skyrim port would always be possible and if GTA V were to, by some miracle, show up on Switch, the Switch Pro would not struggle to run a version that was almost on par with the Xbox One version, but at 720p instead of 1080p.
If Metriod Prime 4 is still coming to the current Switch, say in 2023, the Switch Pro should be able to handle it 1080p60 docked, 900p portable mode, while the Switch gets 900p60 and 720p60, plus higher resolution textures, etc. Metroid Prime Trilogy HD gets to run in native 1080p with highest res textures and improved lighting of the remaster in your hands. Only 720p portable for non-Pro owners.
blah blah blah.
I just hope Nintendo throws us a bone next year.
It is literally going to be 3 to 3.5 years (perhaps longer but i hope not) from now before their next-gen hybrid system (Switch 2 or whatever) comes out.
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That's basically it: It's machine learned upscaling which basically also "adds" the detail back as it uprezes.
So then is possible to achieve better frame rates and, and the same time, a better image quality? That seems incredible!
Man, I remember speaking with a colleague a couple years ago about machine lea rning and it possible apolications. It looked like something that would took years to start to be applied. Time flies with technology nowadays. Thanks!
DLSS is my single biggest dream for any Switch revision or successor, but I certainly don't expect Nintendo to do it. And I still don't know what this "4K ready" thing might mean, but dang if it's not exciting. Trying to temper my expectations, but that's a really heartening rumor from a reputable source.
It would be super great if Nintendo didn't get totally left behind in the image quality dust once again. I'd be so stoked for some sort of decent 4K upscaling.
It would be super great if Nintendo didn't get totally left behind in the image quality dust once again. I'd be so stoked for some sort of decent 4K upscaling.
Would be interesting if this is one of the reasons the Breath of the Wild sequel got delayed.
Like, the pandemic delayed the game, but with a new system coming soon, maybe they delayed it a bit more and made some improvements.
It'll be the flagship title for the new console.
Short answer that doesn't involve a video: DLSS (Deep Learning SuperSampling) is a technique created by Nvidia, that uses a specially created AI model accelerated by specialized hardware called Tensor, to improve the render resolution in games with no loss of performance. Or, to gain performance for the same render resolution.
Nvidia are the current hardware partners to Nintendo for creating the Switch consoles, and are most well-known for creating powerful graphics cards for desktop PCs, and efficient Tegra system-on-chip solutions for mobile devices like the Switch.
So the practical upshot is that Nvidia, the makers of the hardware powering the current and the next Switch consoles, are in possession of technology that can radically improve either performance, or resolution, of games running on the next Switch console series, and there is a distinct possibility that this technology, that is already known to work with mobile Tegra hardware, will be present in the successor to the current Switch console. Allowing, theoretically, to have it match the effective performance of the current-generation high-power consoles like the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X - not through raw power, but efficient use of DLSS technology.
The actual likelihood of DLSS being present in the next Switch console is, admittedly, somewhat low - Nintendo is not known for jumping onto relatively unproven tech bandwagons like this. But given how much of a cost-to-performance benefit it is, its eventual inclusion in some next iteration of the console is almost guaranteed.
If console itself have 4K option and itself upscaling to 4K, you are getting better image quality compared when TV is doing alone like case is currently with Switch.
Yes, it can basically make games look as good or better than native 4K while running at a much lower resolution. It requires specific hardware though, which shouldn't be a problems since Nvidia are Nintendo's partners.
Why not? They're the only ones who went with Nvidia this gen.
I mean, I hear ya on the whole "Nintendo would probably not want to spend that much", but who knows what deals they've got worked out with their partners.
The only way that i can see non taxing games (basically anything that's not simplistic 2D graphics) reach 4K is by DLSS.
It would be super impressive on the technical nVidia side if this rumored Pro revision would really have some DLSS solution baked in.
And it would be super proactive for Nintendo to actually go for it.
In short, i can't see this happen at all.
It would be super impressive on the technical nVidia side if this rumored Pro revision would really have some DLSS solution baked in.
And it would be super proactive for Nintendo to actually go for it.
In short, i can't see this happen at all.
Or, you know, maybe Nvidia cut them another deal? We don't really know...
Part of my thoughts is that DLSS would certainly open up the Pro for more ports, though those wouldn't really work on the vanilla Switch and the Lite. And i don't think Nintendo wants to have a shitload of Pro exclusive software.
E:
Also, i'm not too well informed about DLSS in detail, but why would Nintendo tell the devs that they should make their games 4K ready? From my little info that i have about it, shouldn't the solution take care of everything?
...Unless the whole talk about having a huge spring lineup are true, which in that case I could see developers actually pushing Nintendo for making "Pro" exclusive games and Nintendo following suite. I can see it being made as a push for people to "upgrade".
I can't imagine the 10w or even 15w Xavier NX would be too costly for a Switch Pro released next year for $299-349, Nvidia would probably cut Nintendo a pretty good deal.
Thank ypu both! My past i gaming involved playing in a PC, and that's when I startes to know (and buy) Nvidia components. Thier quality is indubitable. What makes me wonder is that, wven if I agree about DLSS not being part of a Nintendo Switch right now, I can't see another way how to keep the portability and achiving 4k at the same time.
Could also explain why they expect to sell so many Switch consoles.
Maybe Pro games will only work when the original console is in Docked Mode, where it'll play the Handheld mode version of the Pro game.
Doesn't the Lite have a more powerful chip? Not too powerful, but maybe it'll help (at the expense of the battery).
Not at all, DLSS would give games that run at 540p or 720p a boost to 720p or 1080p respectively, but vanilla switch would be able to run the lower resolution version.
No, devs have to code for it, that's why only a few games on PC support it at the moment. Getting more devs familiar with it through switch would be a bonus for Nvidia.
Native 4k at 10/15w and 299/349 pricepoint? Good luck with that in 2021.
That's basically telling that already huge userbase of Switch and Lite "fuck you", really. It doesn't fit those long platform life plans either, because at that point it would almost be handled like a proper successor and not a mid-life Pro revision.
I mean we're still talking about a revision that probably could have improvements on the CPU/GPU side. If a possible combination of that with a DLSS solution is what opens up more ports, i don't see vanilla Switch or the Lite even being able to run "low res" versions.
I see, so devs do have to make some adjustments, that's what i was missing. Thanks for the info.
Not with a decent battery life and that doesn't heat up like a stove top. DLSS is the only way they release a revision that actually outputs games in 4K.
While true, the image isn't very clean in motion when upscaling to 4k with an internal resolution that low.
Iirc it's just a more efficient variant. So in theory they could run higher clocks, i think. Though if that would be enough and how well the battery would handle that over a longer time, dunno.
That's still going to be a lot more expensive and require a more expensive cooling solution and it'd have to be a totally original chip instead of something Nvidia already has on hand. DLSS is the only viable way right now.
DLSS is in my opinion the best tech we've got in a long time. That said even with dlss wouldnt the upgrade have to be very substantial to pull this off? Like dlss is great but its still not a miracle worker. I would be very suprised if a potential pro sku would do 4k. Switch 2 in a few years I could see though.
Here's my take:
Possible price reduction on current Switch to $249 or $199, Switch Lite at $179 or $149.
The new Switch "Pro" can slot in at $299 or $349. Most games being produced around this time period will be back-compatible with current Switch models, but there will be a few/couple of "Pro only" exclusive software to help push the new model. Unlike the new3DS/3DS, the number of "Pro only" titles will only increase.
But there could be another solution to this.
"Pro" titles could be played on regular non-lite Switch SKUs, provided they are in docked mode, and even then, they will be played at 1080p at most with many consessions. The "Pro" would not only have the benefit of playing the regular Switch "docked" version in portable mode, but its own docked performance would even see a significant performance increase either utilizing technologies, DLSS or whatnot.
Nintendo has kind of done that already with the Wii U - Switch and 3DS - New 3DS XL.
Heck, didn't Miyamoto say there wouldn't be an XL version of the 3DS a couple of weeks before the XL was announced?
Of course, it's not EXACTLY the same thing, but kind of similar.
I don't think Nintendo is leaving behind the hybrid concept. Specially when the use of portable devices, specially smartphones, for gaming is so extended (including in their own country, Japan)
Maybe gen 7 games, but to run gen 8 games, you typically need something like 4 TF modern architecture (so more modern than XB1X). That's a range of performance that isn't really achievable with a Switch form factor (in docked, nevermind undocked), it's more likely a target for the Switch in 2023/2024. Native 1080p on gen 8 games? That should be possible in many cases, but for 4K output, you will need DLSS in 2021 on a Switch system.
I'm talking about taking a game that already renders at 1080p on the current Switch, rendering at 4K on this hypothetical Pro. No reason to confuse it with talk of Gen 7 and Gen 8 games.
There's too much if and maybes in this whole speculation imo. Too much for Nintendo at least. ^^
How many New 3DS exclusives exists though? Iirc, Xenoblade Chronicles and Fire Emblem Warriors were the only ones from Nintendo, plus a handful of indie games.
That would still be far more expensive than just going with an existing Tegra that has tensor cores. DLSS would be cheaper and right up Nintendo's alley, brute forcing native 4k in 2021 wouldn't really track with how Nintendo does things. The hardware already exists, they'd have to spend tons of money development a chip that doesn't exist to do native 4k, it'd be a waste.
Fair enough, something like MK8D should be able to hit native 4K I think.
Well, we're talking about original WiiU games for the most part (notice that many of Nintendo's first party games aren't native 1080p). Hitting 4K instead of 1080p would mean an improvement in res of 4x, which should be doable with a system that is 4 years later. Of course, it should be something more custom than a Tegra X1 die shrunk to 7nm or something like that, considering the additional requirements for memory bandwidth etc. But I'm not convinced it can't or won't be done (we'd be looking at a 1.0-1.2 TF chip docked with a more modern architecture), it's not an outrageously more powerful system.
Well it's hard to really make an educated guess when Nintendo holds all its cards close to its chest. There's really no telling how they'll go about it, suffice to say keep expectatios in check and in fact if you have any, you might want to lower them more judging from all of the outrage people have over announcements these days.
I'm fairly sure there is no existing Tegras with tensor cores that are designed to be used in a device as small as Switch.