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BREXIT |OT2.0| A parade of endless victories for Boris Johnson
- Thread starter Uzzy
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He does nothing, gets threathened legal action and someone else than him arranges the extension. He goes to election as hero of the people. It is his only option.
Replaced
I meant good ones
It true....
I don't see the point of a new party if the people who vote and the voting system stay the same anyway.
Just read a report from Robert Preston about someone on the NEC saying it hasn't been decided yet, how can they fuck something like this up.
Is this an override motion issued on Brexit rather than a composite motion made from 80+ local party submissions?
not surprised by the brexit notion but it's politically bonkers. i personally support staying neutral to try and give a referendum some integrity, but it's an insane position to attempt to sell given current polling with remainers and having a post-election conference to decide is just ridiculous and is so easy to attack as a stitch up to voters already angry at labour playing political games over brexit
attacking the media and private schools are probably popular policies but we need to get real on brexit or the election is going to be a disaster
attacking the media and private schools are probably popular policies but we need to get real on brexit or the election is going to be a disaster
oh my god why are the left of the party not showing any unity
there's always been some tension over corbyn amongst his internal support base that public displays of partisanship in backing the project publicly at all costs have occluded, but it definitely feels like the levee has broken this weekend from my observations
corbyn protecting watson was the trigger moment but i think the failure of the new PLP re-selection policy to have any real effect and the reality of current polling have made people realise that corbynism is basically dead. even if corbyn does become prime minister it will be as part of a minority government where the lib dems or the conservative parts of the PLP block most everything radical, and the transformation of the party long term clearly hasn't succeeded given that even the despised watson can't be deposed.
problem for corbynism is that there's no clear successor. they never prepared properly for corbynism without corbyn. thornberry will win imo and tack right.
Can't wait for someone like Emily Thornberry or Keir Starmer to take over. Only hope the shift to the right isn't too drastic when it happens.
Labour is a bottom-up orginization and this is the biggest change that's happened in the past few years. You've seen recently that they could've easily ousted Tom Watson if Corbyn hadnt stepped in, what do you think is going to happen when someone like Corbyn isn't there? Anyone who thinks that getting rid of Corbyn is going to cause a drastic change and go back to some mythical centre ground politics are in for a big disappointment.
who wants more centre ground policy anyway
how can you claim to be in any way progressive and think shifting policy back rightwards (when policy isn't THAT far-left anyway) is something to be excited about
how can you claim to be in any way progressive and think shifting policy back rightwards (when policy isn't THAT far-left anyway) is something to be excited about
Why can't they just have similar polices but a better leader, team. Just because Corbin goes doesn't mean they shift massively right.
That aside how did Blair work with this bottom up organisation or was it not a thing back then and how did he quiet that bell end McClusky?
That aside how did Blair work with this bottom up organisation or was it not a thing back then and how did he quiet that bell end McClusky?
that'd be great. but who, and how do we get them? and how do we stop them being sabotaged?
Neither of those are particularly left wing. The problem with having a left-wing successor is the nominations have to made by the PLP which is significantly to the right of the membership. Corbyn only just scraped enough nominations because Margret Beckett felt sorry for him at the last moment, thinking there was no way he could win.
mcclusky's politics are unusual and also opposed by GMB and unison, labour's rightward shift in the 80s and 90s primarily took place under kinnock and smith (blair's changes from 1994 were mostly cosmetic) and were the result of the st ermine's group of right wing union leaders who consolidated power away from the membership and in the NEC which they controlled.
i personally don't agree that labour is a bottom up organisation, the unions and the PLP are very powerful.
I thought Les Républicains were due to take power last time out, but Fillon got found out as a corrupt greedy shit?
You would think that at this critical point in time we wouldn't be seriously trying to remove the deputy PM position and trying to forcefully shut down various factions of the party (Student Labour). There's a god damn election coming up any moment now and this is a perfect time to get everybody on board and prepared and to suggest that the point of party conference is also purely for disharmony is hopelessly cynical or totally disingenious.
I don't even disagree that this was an inopportune time to go for it but on the other side of the token we're going into an election, let's get rid of the people who keep trying to fuck with things before we go into a campaign that needs a unified message
Yep, he would be a better PM but Britain ain't ready for a black PM. Way too many racists.
Disagree, I think Lammy would be WAY more popular than Corbyn.
I think the people racist enough to not want to vote for Lammy probably also would never vote for Corbyn anyway.
Sadly I think you are wrong. Corbyn is at least ok with most casual racists as he is white.
But how many people are there that are left wing enough to vote Corbyn but also racist enough to not vote for a black man? I mean I know they are racist enough to not vote for a Jewish person but seemingly that's the one problematic area right now.
Surely, if the god damn USA, a country built on slavery, can elect a black President, we can elect a black PM.
I'd love Lammy to be Labour Leader, he has a really good energy behind him with some great momentum.
You may well be right. In a perfect world he'd be a great pick though. He's an amazing speaker and he appears to actually give a shit. He's also one of very few in parliament who have stood up and pointed out exactly how stupid Brexit is in no uncertain terms.
Yes he says nice things but he didn't point out how stupid the Iraq invasion was, instead voted for it. That's basically kryptonite for a lot of the party and rightfully so.
You have a lot of Labour people freaking out over Labour's stance on private schools... It will be even worse for a black guy like Lammy sadly. I know plenty of white guys that vote labour, but are racist as fuck.
He gets a few things wrong but then all pms do, but I like him. Sadly he will never get close to being in charge of Labour.
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You don't even have to go far to find it, look at the way Abbott is treated literally everywhere.
truth is, it's far more complicated than that, that is an easy way to read what happened. but over-simplified.
Yes the corrupt Fillon shit did have an effect, but even before that, "les républicains" were like going much more to the right ( sarkozy going harcore right chasing le pen, abortion, gay marriage => the whole political structure of LR was infiltrated by the hardcore anti gay marriage folks, it was crazy, you had people saying on twitter gay marriage was like people marrying dogs still within the LR structure, those people are still there).
People (voters) ran away from this shit, fillon being a corrupt pos was the cherry on the cake, but honestly macron would have won without it, because it was obvious to anyone but the most hardcore LR supporters where they were heading (aka : far right le pen copycat, us republicans) .
The hardcore on both sides did not made macron win, it was the moderates not crazy people (either right leaning but not crazy or racist or left leaning but no utopians or communist/populists, social democrats if you want) disgusted by either side that did.
people in the middle just asking for someone moderate and a bit sensible basically.
But my observation was no about about macron, more about how the way the tory and labour are self destructing themselves is an incredible copycat of what happened in france, anyone who is interested in this should look up on google the inside history of both sides ( from the left french "frondeurs" to the right sarkozy'" chasing after the nazi/racist FN ).
it's amazing really.
like a glitch in the matrix, the exact same shit, happening in the exact same way.
we live in a simulation.
note : in the last EU elections, the classic right 'les Républicains' did 8%, (nothing), the classic left 'socialist' 6% (less than nothing) , irrelevant, both of them.
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As much as I love Lammy, isn't he the most abused MP online? It's so sad how upset white people get when a black man points out racism. His tweet replies usually consists of "Why do you make everything about race?" *Click on their profile* *Shocked to discover they're white as fuck*
So you're saying Labour are not only electorally fucked short term, but also medium-to-long term? Great.
So after all the talk Corbyn gave about putting power back into the hands of members he's ignored the 80 or so motions on supporting Remain put forward by local parties and instead issued an overriding motion for members to vote on that Labour not even decide what to support until after a GE, even though 88% of Labour members would vote Remain in a second referendum.
Tory antics always make Corbyn look good by comparison but once the spotlight shifts off of them you realise just how crap he's always been.
Same shit in a worse suit.
Tory antics always make Corbyn look good by comparison but once the spotlight shifts off of them you realise just how crap he's always been.
Same shit in a worse suit.
It's weird how he seems to be prepared to blow it all on a pretty naff kicking the decision down the road plan, perhaps that's why some on the NEC have looked like they are preparing for what to do when he goes and to fix the result.
I mean this is a quote from what should be his base.
Laura Parker, Momentum's national coordinator and a prospective parliamentary candidate, said Corbyn must decide on Labour's Brexit this week, not after a general election.
"We have to decide at this conference. The one we have come to, the one we have travelled across the country to come to, not at some putative further conference which is presumably in the mythical land with that fucking table with all our options on it," she said.
I imagine parts of it will continue under new ownership when the dust settles. The shops alone (and they'll go) are a massive hit.
It sounds like they couldn't agree so two motions to be voted on tomorrow. The "neutral" one and a remain one.
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