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Oct 25, 2017
26,941
I'd say I'm definitely happy with the end results I get from Sony but I still LOATHE the actual shooting. I feel like I can't see enough of the EVF at any given time (maybe it's too close to the body), and I'm struggling to actually see what's in focus half the time. Most of my pain points are centered around the EVF and visualizing my shot.

None of that improves with a Canon, but the Fujis felt way better in that regard. I especially miss the vertical 3rd axis tilting on the Fuji LCD, i used that more than I realized.
I use the tilt screen sometimes, I guess I'm just mostly adaptable up to a certain point, though I will admit the A7RII could use a higher res EVF or screen because I do not always know if a shot is in focus or not till I get home. Fuji makes a great camera, but I don't like the high iso on it and I'm not shelling out whatever the price tag is for Topaz because I don't even know if I can batch run an event shoot through that.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,208
None of that improves with a Canon, but the Fujis felt way better in that regard. I especially miss the vertical 3rd axis tilting on the Fuji LCD, i used that more than I realized.
As I do more and more vertical landscapes I can see how this is almost impossible to do without. And how the OMD was waaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of its time. That LCD....

Fuji makes a great camera, but I don't like the high iso on it and I'm not shelling out whatever the price tag is for Topaz because I don't even know if I can batch run an event shoot through that.
I've been playing around with Topaz, it's beyond amazing. But even so I actually prefer some of the noisier files I get out of Fuji.
Like I prefer this over the denoised version:
DSCF7397_1 by TIKI, on Flickr


But for you, you need workhorse cameras and Sony is that right now. However, the noise performance typically gets better and better, the XT4/XH2 should be a leap forward in that regard, this is dependant on sensor tech, processing tech and AI, so I don't see why it would hit a limit anytime soon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,941
As I do more and more vertical landscapes I can see how this is almost impossible to do without. And how the OMD was waaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of its time. That LCD....


I've been playing around with Topaz, it's beyond amazing. But even so I actually prefer some of the noisier files I get out of Fuji.
Like I prefer this over the denoised version:
DSCF7397_1 by TIKI, on Flickr


But for you, you need workhorse cameras and Sony is that right now. However, the noise performance typically gets better and better, the XT4/XH2 should be a leap forward in that regard, this is dependant on sensor tech, processing tech and AI, so I don't see why it would hit a limit anytime soon.
My only overall complaint with doing event work on the A7RII is the buffering, 5fps ain't fast and AF speed. Granted I'm very used to it, but sometimes I don't think it locks on fast enough, but that's basically it. I think getting any of the third gen bodies should alleviate most of those complaints.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
And there's really no reason to use Topaz when Capture One works so well with Fuji, in my humble opinion, unless we're talking about their clear AI denoiser thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,941
And there's really no reason to use Topaz when Capture One works so well with Fuji, in my humble opinion, unless we're talking about their clear AI denoiser thing.
If I liked the interface and knew how to batch edit an event with it I'd be on Capture One, but I don't really feel like relearning my workflow especially if the boss of my boss wants me to edit through a couple of hundred images and send them to him within an hour.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,208
And there's really no reason to use Topaz when Capture One works so well with Fuji, in my humble opinion, unless we're talking about their clear AI denoiser thing.
Yes...C1 w/ Fuji RAW works very well, I am basically playing around with it for ISO 3200 stuff to clear noise. But even so, for streetwork XT3 is fine upto ISO 3200 in less than good light. It's just that when I pixel peep (which we all end up doing), I wonder if things could be cleared up.

For instance OOC w/ C1 processing, keep in mind I don't denoise at all in C1, whatever is default. This is just sharpened, white balance adjusted etc. Holistically its fine, but it's grainy:

DSCF7379_1 by TIKI, on Flickr

Versus the Topaz version, which I think is better after processing the DNG through C1. It's also plasticky and creamy:

DSCF7379-denoise3 by TIKI, on Flickr

But the first one also tells you the same great story holistically.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,208
Yeah I have interesting tastes dependant on subject matter, sometimes I like really harsh flash, bleached highlights, specially for high end fashion shots. My overall aesthetic preference is of course the less processing the better.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,941
I wouldn't be surprised if smartphones are using very similar algorithms. I think they boost the ISO extremely high and then heavily process the image using whatever manufacturer dependant algorithm.
I actually thought they just image stacked everything to cut down on noise at this point, not to mention whatever other forms of computational photography they are doing.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,208
I actually thought they just image stacked everything to cut down on noise at this point, not to mention whatever other forms of computational photography they are doing.
*shrug*

I don't know. Sometimes I'm amazed at what cellphone cameras can do these days. But then again, they look best on small screens, if I view them on PC monitors they fall apart.
 
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Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
I have an iphone 8+ and have stopped using my camera altogether for pictures I want to keep, it's laughably bad compared to actual cameras.

I long for a day where I have a great camera in my pocket.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,941
*shrug*

I don't know. Sometimes I'm amazed at what cellphone cameras can do these days. But then again, they look best in small screens, if I view them in PC monitors they fall apart.
Yeah they're not designed for any real high res work. I don't view them as worth anything for pro event work, video fine since it's a good convenient B or C cam, but not for event photography.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,208
The new Sony Experia that someone posted seems to have decent tech. I mean if around say 16MP to 20MP and a 1.8 or 2.0 lens, that should be fine. The issue is, still pretty much point, focus and shoot. I would be OK with it for casual stuff, food photos while dining out, backyard BBQ, few photos at a concert etc. But I like having control over the actual exposure for more creative pursuits...DoF for isolation, shutter to stop or show motion, so on. Can't really manage all that on a phone quickly enough.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,941
The new Sony Experia that someone posted seems to have decent tech. I mean if around say 16MP to 20MP and a 1.8 or 2.0 lens, that should be fine. The issue is, still pretty much point, focus and shoot. I would be OK with it for casual stuff, food photos while dining out, backyard BBQ, few photos at a concert etc. But I like having control over the actual exposure for more creative pursuits...DoF for isolation, shutter to stop or show motion, so on. Can't really manage all that on a phone quickly enough.
This is why I don't like shooting on a phone. The amount of control and how much I enjoy having said control really isn't there on a phone. It's a completely different user experience.
 

Custódio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,902
Brazil, Unaí/MG
The shooting experience itself is as important as the final result when it comes to casual stuff and... I don't enjoy taking pictures with my phone. It's the galaxy s9+, which should be one of the best today but I can't be bothered. I know some people that take great pictures with them, but it's not for me.

I want to try one of those pocketable cameras to carry with me all the time, to use when I don't whant / can't carry my DSLR and see if I like them better.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
The shooting experience itself is as important as the final result when it comes to casual stuff and... I don't enjoy taking pictures with my phone. It's the galaxy s9+, which should be one of the best today but I can't be bothered. I know some people that take great pictures with them, but it's not for me.

I want to try one of those pocketable cameras to carry with me all the time, to use when I don't whant / can't carry my DSLR and see if I like them better.
The Ricoh is probably your best bet.
 

Tux_

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
1,345
Im having an annoyingly difficult time deciding between the Z7 and the Z6... Was tempted to go for the Sony A7R3 but I already have a few Nikon lenses, and that display at the back is nowhere near the Nikon screen from what I have seen...

Question for the folks at Era. Is a 40+ Megapixel camera really worth the extra money? I am shooting fashion, business portraits and weddings.

How does the 40+ megapixel gang in here feel after upgrading from 24?

I need help 😒
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Im having an annoyingly difficult time deciding between the Z7 and the Z6... Was tempted to go for the Sony A7R3 but I already have a few Nikon lenses, and that display at the back is nowhere near the Nikon screen from what I have seen...

Question for the folks at Era. Is a 40+ Megapixel camera really worth the extra money? I am shooting fashion, business portraits and weddings.

How does the 40+ megapixel gang in here feel after upgrading from 24?

I need help 😒

Honestly, unless you know you need it or want it, the bigger files are going to be more of a hindrance than anything for a working professional. Fewer shots in the buffer, fewer shots on a single card, require more storage, take longer to process, etc.

There's definitely a noticeable difference when editing, but in terms of end results to your clients? Probably not, although it depends.

I would absolutely go with the Z6 if I were in your situation. It's a lot cheaper and seems to sacrifice very little in terms of specs (unlike the A7R III to A7 III, which sees a big drop in viewfinder/LCD resolution).

I'd say I'm definitely happy with the end results I get from Sony but I still LOATHE the actual shooting. I feel like I can't see enough of the EVF at any given time (maybe it's too close to the body), and I'm struggling to actually see what's in focus half the time. Most of my pain points are centered around the EVF and visualizing my shot.

None of that improves with a Canon, but the Fujis felt way better in that regard. I especially miss the vertical 3rd axis tilting on the Fuji LCD, i used that more than I realized.

I really hope Sony does go with the vertical 3rd axis in future designs. That's my favorite type of back LCD. I shoot almost entirely through the LCD on my A9 and get by just fine with the two-axis tilt, but I would love to be able to more easily see the screen when shooting vertical shots from a really low angle.
 
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nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,208
The shooting experience itself is as important as the final result when it comes to casual stuff and... I don't enjoy taking pictures with my phone. It's the galaxy s9+, which should be one of the best today but I can't be bothered. I know some people that take great pictures with them, but it's not for me.

I want to try one of those pocketable cameras to carry with me all the time, to use when I don't whant / can't carry my DSLR and see if I like them better.
I'd second the Ricoh. It's smaller than the X100F and looks like the Ricoh simulations are really nice looking as well. And it's a bit wider field of view as well. I also highly recommend the Sony RX100 series though (just not the latest one).
 

Custódio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,902
Brazil, Unaí/MG
The Ricoh is probably your best bet.

I'll keep that camera in mind. I would probably prefer something more telephoto to use in concerts. I think I saw some sony cameras that have zoom to the equivalent of 200mm if I'm not mistaken. It's not something that I'm going to buy for now, though. I still have lots of things on my photography wishlist, like:
- A camera / laptop backpack (this one is urgent, mine is tearing apart. Any recommendations?);
- A heavy, steady tripod;
- An ultra-wide lens;
- A telephoto lens;
- ND filter;

This hobby sure is expensive! If I were to start doing some paid gigs, I would have to buy backup stuff, like a couple of speedlites, batteries, memory cards, etc.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,208
- A camera / laptop backpack (this one is urgent, mine is tearing apart. Any recommendations?);
People seem to really dig Peak Design stuff, you can check out their website to see what fits.

I use an old Crumpler, something similar to this:

I think I figured out how to balance Topaz and C1, it's pretty good overall. I was boosting the NR way too high:

DSCF7379-denoise_1_3 by TIKI, on Flickr
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,941
You're over correcting an image that's not even in focus to begin with. The only thing that doesn't have an element of motion blur to it is the wall behind the guy.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,208
Probably. I'm trying to salvage this photo as I think it's one of the more interesting ones from that day.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Probably. I'm trying to salvage this photo as I think it's one of the more interesting ones from that day.

I don't mean to be harsh, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing in it. It looks like a random snapshot with a shutter speed that is just too low. Of course, I wasn't there, so I'm probably missing some significance, but I think most of your other shots were far more interesting to look at.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,208
I don't mean to be harsh, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing in it. It looks like a random snapshot with a shutter speed that is just too low. Of course, I wasn't there, so I'm probably missing some significance, but I think most of your other shots were far more interesting to look at.
No, absolutely not harsh. That's what's interesting to me as well, based on say, flickr or Facebook stats. My photos that I find interesting are not the most viewed or liked ones for example. The ones I think are mundane or adequate are more liked. It's an interesting thing. This is interesting to me because the guy walks in, looks at the girl and is captured. He is handsome, she is sexy. It's a night thing. The lighting is very nice. I don't know, it's a feeling.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
X-Pro3 apparently coming in the fall, I know a lot of folks have been anxiously awaiting that line's refresh.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,208
Aside from being rangefinder styled body, are there any other differences? I'm more curious if they'll actually make an H2, best move for them would be to release XT4 and H2 with the same internal tech (+ IBIS for H2). Also wish they'd make a 12mm prime, which would make my decision for a UWA lens easier.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
Aside from being rangefinder styled body, are there any other differences? I'm more curious if they'll actually make an H2, best move for them would be to release XT4 and H2 with the same internal tech (+ IBIS for H2). Also wish they'd make a 12mm prime, which would make my decision for a UWA lens easier.
Some people really prefer a rangefinder body style, plus the hybrid viewfinder. Regarding the lens, why not just get the Samyang 12/2?

Apparently the X-H2 is in the works, but I have a feeling they're going to royally fuck up the timing on it again and release it as a rehashed X-T3 instead of all new internals.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,723
Aside from being rangefinder styled body, are there any other differences? I'm more curious if they'll actually make an H2, best move for them would be to release XT4 and H2 with the same internal tech (+ IBIS for H2). Also wish they'd make a 12mm prime, which would make my decision for a UWA lens easier.
Well personally, if I was going to get a camera for birding, I'd love to use an X-Pro line, as having the viewfinder show the entire area around with framelines for a 400mm would make it a lot easier to find your subject. IMO.
But they also have red dot styled hotshoe viewfinders for that.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,208
The Samyang/Rokinon is in consideration. Since Fuji make great lenses, and they're pretty affordable, hoping for a Fuji option. The 10-24 seems to be well loved, but I don't foresee using that beyond the 10 - 15mm range, and I'm definitely getting the 16mm 1.4, so a prime would be better for me. But either way, Samyang should be a good stop gap solution.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,941
This'll be me when graduation season finally fucking ends:
Mvy5Av.gif

Don't work graduations people or don't work for a college system with over 20 fucking college campuses.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
So I received that Mamiya RZ67 and 2 lenses in the mail.

The camera has a cracked...focusing screen? Whatever the glass plate is that you look down onto from above. It's on the edge of the thing, not sure if that would affect the final image. The front cap was off, the mirror looks pretty dirty. The 110mm lens has what sounds like loose gravel in it.

I honestly don't know what to do with this kit. First step is I figured I'd take it by a local place to get a quote to clean everything up, but I might be better off sending it directly to a Mamiya support vendor at this point for a cleaning/refurb.

edit: well the screen is at least a quick 5 second fix

 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,723
Just send it to me.

Focus screen will have no effect on IQ.
So I received that Mamiya RZ67 and 2 lenses in the mail.

The camera has a cracked...focusing screen? Whatever the glass plate is that you look down onto from above. It's on the edge of the thing, not sure if that would affect the final image. The front cap was off, the mirror looks pretty dirty. The 110mm lens has what sounds like loose gravel in it.

I honestly don't know what to do with this kit. First step is I figured I'd take it by a local place to get a quote to clean everything up, but I might be better off sending it directly to a Mamiya support vendor at this point for a cleaning/refurb.

edit: well the screen is at least a quick 5 second fix

 

Adder7806

Member
Dec 16, 2018
4,128
Im having an annoyingly difficult time deciding between the Z7 and the Z6... Was tempted to go for the Sony A7R3 but I already have a few Nikon lenses, and that display at the back is nowhere near the Nikon screen from what I have seen...

Question for the folks at Era. Is a 40+ Megapixel camera really worth the extra money? I am shooting fashion, business portraits and weddings.

How does the 40+ megapixel gang in here feel after upgrading from 24?

I need help 😒
I imagine if you're shooting professionally you're going to want those extra megapixels. That being said, I love my Z6 but I'm just a hobbyist.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Well personally, if I was going to get a camera for birding, I'd love to use an X-Pro line, as having the viewfinder show the entire area around with framelines for a 400mm would make it a lot easier to find your subject. IMO.
But they also have red dot styled hotshoe viewfinders for that.

Isn't the OVF on the X-Pro line pretty wide in terms of focal length? I'm imagining a tiny frame being displayed for 400mm and it being almost impossible to see your subject well.

This'll be me when graduation season finally fucking ends:
Mvy5Av.gif

Don't work graduations people or don't work for a college system with over 20 fucking college campuses.

Sounds brutal. I'm going to be photographing my son's kindergarten graduation ceremony in a couple of weeks, so that'll be fun. Completely different beast than the stuff you're doing, of course; them being 5 year olds and all.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
Im having an annoyingly difficult time deciding between the Z7 and the Z6... Was tempted to go for the Sony A7R3 but I already have a few Nikon lenses, and that display at the back is nowhere near the Nikon screen from what I have seen...

Question for the folks at Era. Is a 40+ Megapixel camera really worth the extra money? I am shooting fashion, business portraits and weddings.

How does the 40+ megapixel gang in here feel after upgrading from 24?

I need help 😒
Rear LCD displays are overrated when you can just look at the EVF for chimping now, but I do agree, the Sony LCD sucks.

All I can say about 40+ MP is it would feel like stepping into the past to go back to 24. You will consume copious amounts of disk space, and with the Z bodies being single card, you'd have to do a lot more card swapping with the Z7. The ability to crop very deeply in post however is a godsend. Most of the pros that chatter about such things on forums like FM tend to like the A9 better for events, as it shoots faster and the files are faster to process and smaller to store.

I know you can get an R3 for about $2300 new on Greentoe. The MSRP of the Z7 is still $2800, so maybe 2600 on greentoe. For fashion, portraits, and weddings, you'd probably want a 24-70/2.8, 85/1.4, and 70-200/2.8 at a minimum. Has adapting Nikon lenses gotten better since release, because the first impressions were get Z lenses or don't bother.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Rear LCD displays are overrated when you can just look at the EVF for chimping now, but I do agree, the Sony LCD sucks.

I shoot almost exclusively through the LCD, so I hope they opt for a much higher display next time around.

All I can say about 40+ MP is it would feel like stepping into the past to go back to 24. You will consume copious amounts of disk space, and with the Z bodies being single card, you'd have to do a lot more card swapping with the Z7. The ability to crop very deeply in post however is a godsend. Most of the pros that chatter about such things on forums like FM tend to like the A9 better for events, as it shoots faster and the files are faster to process and smaller to store.

I definitely missed the cropability of the A7R II when I moved to the A9. There's no doubt that the files were more malleable and sharp in just about every way outside of maybe very high ISO shots. Still, I valued the the performance, operability, and silent shooting capabilities of the A9 more than the resolution for my purposes. I'm hoping the A9 II manages to go up to around 36 MP while also gaining in the performance department, too.
 

Menelaus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,682
A 36mp cam with the burst speed and sensor readout of the A9 (or better for the next gen) and the extra A9 physical dials is probably very close to the perfect do-everything camera. Just fucking weather seal it this time, Sony! I would happily take the 6mp loss to gain all that speed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,941
Sounds brutal. I'm going to be photographing my son's kindergarten graduation ceremony in a couple of weeks, so that'll be fun. Completely different beast than the stuff you're doing, of course; them being 5 year olds and all.
You focusing on just your son or the entire fucking thing and are you getting paid for this? If not bail out now and just photograph your kid. Graduations regardless of age have to be shit shows just don't volunteer for this. Unless you're a masochist then there's no stopping you. Then again it's just one graduation and not the grind that I'm dealing with.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,723
Isn't the OVF on the X-Pro line pretty wide in terms of focal length? I'm imagining a tiny frame being displayed for 400mm and it being almost impossible to see your subject well.



Sounds brutal. I'm going to be photographing my son's kindergarten graduation ceremony in a couple of weeks, so that'll be fun. Completely different beast than the stuff you're doing, of course; them being 5 year olds and all.
OVF with frame lines is just to figure out where you are pointing it. You're gonna see the bird and need to get the lens pointed at it right? Then the pop up screen on the bottom to show the actual image so you can frame it right.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
OVF with frame lines is just to figure out where you are pointing it. You're gonna see the bird and need to get the lens pointed at it right? Then the pop up screen on the bottom to show the actual image so you can frame it right.

Ahh... this sounds like what I already do by primarily shooting through the LCD, but I suppose the frame lines would help a good bit!