If you really want to go talk about the game with a bunch of people who don't care about transphobia reddit is very easy to access
CDPR is a transphobic company. It's time we stop making excuses for them.
- Thread starter Kyuuji
- Start date
Doesn't surprise me. As a Mexican-American the handling of Jackie was par the course for how stereotypical representation is for Latinos across the industry.
Also, the Black Chamber episode should be a further lesson: you can learn a whole lot about what poster's don't say and where they choose to post. It's so hard to ignore all the "civil" meta questioning of why we can't discuss game from posters that continuously engaged in Cyberpunk media hype, seen the disaster that unfolded, and choose still to not make any amends here or pop-in to show support.
The more I here about this game the more it confirms my worst fears. What a hateful and immature company. I am also seething at seeing so many people in the closed thread complaining about fan voices being silenced after months of the trans community being ignored and hateful gaslighters being given not just the benefit of the doubt but the power to set the tone of the conversation on this forum.
I truly feel that TransEra should have the final say with what happens to this game on this site. I know days ago they only wanted reasonable exposure of the issue in the OT, but a lot has happened since then. If they want this banned it should be banned, if they want a critical OT then they should get that and Mods should put in the work to make sure that people can't just troll the thread and harass any of the trans users. At this point protecting the trans community here from hateful fans should be the absolute priority.
I truly feel that TransEra should have the final say with what happens to this game on this site. I know days ago they only wanted reasonable exposure of the issue in the OT, but a lot has happened since then. If they want this banned it should be banned, if they want a critical OT then they should get that and Mods should put in the work to make sure that people can't just troll the thread and harass any of the trans users. At this point protecting the trans community here from hateful fans should be the absolute priority.
I've been lurking a lot of the Cyberpunk threads in ERA because I wanted to keep up to date with these issues, but also wanted to see if the full game had something more to say. I discounted a lot of the social media stuff as being a shitty social media manger, but the Chromanticore stuff in the game and seeing some of the trans members of era explain how deep that whole rabbit hole went was some "holy shit, wtf" stuff.
I put a lot of credence in Carolyn's perspective of trans representation within Cyberpunk because she is a trans woman.
But I think it's safe to say that Cyberpunks treatment of trans people and issues are limited to jokes that objectify them or mock them by saying their decision to change is flippant when in reality that decision to transition is one of the hardest things for them to do.
I put a lot of credence in Carolyn's perspective of trans representation within Cyberpunk because she is a trans woman.
But I think it's safe to say that Cyberpunks treatment of trans people and issues are limited to jokes that objectify them or mock them by saying their decision to change is flippant when in reality that decision to transition is one of the hardest things for them to do.
So not to just focus on meta discussion but if we can't even have a review thread focusing on the issues with problematic content in the game without people crawling out of the woodwork to complain, the OT is going to be a total mess right?
Anyway, reading the reviews linked in that thread now. Cheers to deepFlaw for collecting them.
Anyway, reading the reviews linked in that thread now. Cheers to deepFlaw for collecting them.
mild take: if you don't touch on the problematic social issues as a reviewer you shouldn't be in the game review industry
to that end, take a look at thegamer.com's editor-in-chief Kirk McKeand who posted this gem in his review
to that end, take a look at thegamer.com's editor-in-chief Kirk McKeand who posted this gem in his review
It's hard to take an black/white approach against said bad actors because they straddle the line just enough to fool people. Bet you if mods took action against them, you'd have a bunch of people who can't hear dogwhistles asking why they were banned for "being excited for the game". Like those that defended the OT creators.
People that want to talk about this game in general have the entire rest of internet to freely and safely talk about it.
Trans people wanting to talk about it's transphobia tho? Where? This is the reason why this site exists, it needs to offer that place.
I think at some point in the near future, there's definitely a discussion to be had as to how some devs are able to almost weaponise their fan base.
Although to be fair, I've never ever seen the levels of pseudo-brainwashing I've seen with CDPR.
Although to be fair, I've never ever seen the levels of pseudo-brainwashing I've seen with CDPR.
I think for a lot of people like that, especially people who have seen games that do their communities injustice, they are almost numb to it at this point? Like I have a black friend who has essentially stopped caring about racist black characters because he is tired of caring and just wants to enjoy his hobby. Which is wrong, but just an example.
It's definitely the wrong mindset because if we keep supporting practices like this, they don't go away
That quote...mild take: if you don't touch on the problematic social issues as a reviewer you shouldn't be in the game review industry
to that end, take a look at thegamer.com's editor-in-chief Kirk McKeand who posted this gem in his review
surejan.gif
I mean this is what this should have been from the start. Mods working with all of trans era to be able to handle this right.
It's great that it's full of bugs, makes me not even want to try it for free. I hate the QA of Bethesda games with a passion. What I've seen coming out of this upsets me a lot - and it reeks of that shitty movement
I don't even really understand what that quote actually means, it's just nonsense???mild take: if you don't touch on the problematic social issues as a reviewer you shouldn't be in the game review industry
to that end, take a look at thegamer.com's editor-in-chief Kirk McKeand who posted this gem in his review
User banned (permanent): Troll account
But I thought this was a videogame forum.
Best they can do is ban anything regarding CDPR, and that includes GOG too. Same with anything Rowling related, AKA Harry Potter.
Being told GTA4 had an "oscar worthy story" pretty much cemented to me that the vast majority of games journalists aren't able to engage in deep, substantial criticism.mild take: if you don't touch on the problematic social issues as a reviewer you shouldn't be in the game review industry
to that end, take a look at thegamer.com's editor-in-chief Kirk McKeand who posted this gem in his review
There sure were a lot of people in that thread who "care about these issues" while also completely derailing the thread. I also like the idea that regular review threads are some great hub of dicussion when they're just incredibly toxic shit flinging.
Not that any of that outcome was surprising mind you and it doesn't bode well for any wider discussion.
Not that any of that outcome was surprising mind you and it doesn't bode well for any wider discussion.
The problem is I don't think "I have a family, please don't suppress my ability to talk about my videogames 😥" is actionable so sometimes a report isn't enough. Some of these people really think they're the victim here.
The fact that the game was announced 7 years ago and CDPR built up their reputation as this sterling company allowed them to build up hype in a way most other publishers cannot because we see the bullshit they pull on a regular basis. Not many would go to the same lengths for Ubisoft,EA, or bethesda
I don't understand how staff have botched this so badly
How do people feel about people leaving the site to discuss the game elsewhere?
I'm conflicted because I think at least on Era people are forced to acknowledge and understand the issues around the game. If we only allow people to discuss the issues here (and not the game) then people will leave and talk about it on other platforms where the issues can be ignored
If people want to talk about the game, I'd rather they do so on a platform where minority voices are not silenced and where they have to understand the issues, and where dismissing them is moderated
Funnelling everyone into this thread to discuss anything Cyberpunk seems like all it will do is put a lot of pressure on TransEra, and that seems pretty unfair after the last few days
How do people feel about people leaving the site to discuss the game elsewhere?
I'm conflicted because I think at least on Era people are forced to acknowledge and understand the issues around the game. If we only allow people to discuss the issues here (and not the game) then people will leave and talk about it on other platforms where the issues can be ignored
If people want to talk about the game, I'd rather they do so on a platform where minority voices are not silenced and where they have to understand the issues, and where dismissing them is moderated
Funnelling everyone into this thread to discuss anything Cyberpunk seems like all it will do is put a lot of pressure on TransEra, and that seems pretty unfair after the last few days
I will never miss a chance to link this piece by the great Lana Polansky:
Worse Than Scabs: Gamer Rage as Anti-Union Violence
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It is a video game forum that was built upon certain principles.
Regardless of how well that actually pans out, you truly couldn't understand this simple concept in all the time you've sat on your burner account?
It's clear they do not care AT ALL about the issues. They just want their own little space to hype the next big thing. It's honestly exhausting and continues to be a slap in the face for the marginalized.
I really hope the mods come up with a good solution here (whatever that ends up being...), because otherwise this shit will just keep on happening.
I really hope the mods come up with a good solution here (whatever that ends up being...), because otherwise this shit will just keep on happening.
The lock message in the other thread said this is where they can be discussed, so I don't see why not.
Wow at that quote.mild take: if you don't touch on the problematic social issues as a reviewer you shouldn't be in the game review industry
to that end, take a look at thegamer.com's editor-in-chief Kirk McKeand who posted this gem in his review
Some real "In conclusion, America is a land of contrasts" shit right there.mild take: if you don't touch on the problematic social issues as a reviewer you shouldn't be in the game review industry
to that end, take a look at thegamer.com's editor-in-chief Kirk McKeand who posted this gem in his review
This, I'm a Cis male, and all I'm doing is echoing the statements of others. I'm just reporting stuff that's wilding transphobic, or replying to people who are being actively dumb.
I reported the other thread because it was getting out of hand as the lock message stated, if people can have reasonable discussions about the game, that's fine, I don't think anyone(and it's explicitly mentioned by kyuuji that discussion is fine), But as you said, Transera should have a voice in all of it, and decide if they're comfortable with an OT after everything that has transpired.
Nothing about this has convinced me it should be a 10. Performance wise, and how they're handling issues with the trans community. If only gamers were as riled up over the depiction of marginalized groups as they are when their favorite game gets a 7 (still not an awful score), this narrative would've been completely different. Companies who perpetuate this shit and the reviewers/fans who give them a pass should be hung out to dry. Good on Gamespot, and getting a 7 is generous considering CDPR's fuckery. The warranted controversy following this game, and it still gets perfect reviews? Lmao bruh.
(fwiw kinda starting to be in a work call so this is a little rushed)
I am not entirely surprised by how that went. It being locked is probably for the better given but I'm not sure how to feel about the fallout.
I also want to say that I immediately felt kinda weird about exclusively highlighting those parts of those reviews? Not because I think the thread shouldn't have been centered on that. But because it may have kinda backfired into doing a disservice to the writers by boiling down their work to just those parts. It is a major problem that marginalized writers are hired just for their criticism on issues and nothing else, so I don't want to perpetuate that.
Fwiw when I posted it, nothing past "reviews" was in the title. It was a mod edit, and an understandable one imo but "transphobia issues" was... awkward, to say the least.
I am not entirely surprised by how that went. It being locked is probably for the better given but I'm not sure how to feel about the fallout.
I also want to say that I immediately felt kinda weird about exclusively highlighting those parts of those reviews? Not because I think the thread shouldn't have been centered on that. But because it may have kinda backfired into doing a disservice to the writers by boiling down their work to just those parts. It is a major problem that marginalized writers are hired just for their criticism on issues and nothing else, so I don't want to perpetuate that.
Fwiw when I posted it, nothing past "reviews" was in the title. It was a mod edit, and an understandable one imo but "transphobia issues" was... awkward, to say the least.
Yea. A bunch of "Listen, I support these issues, but..."
It's because they don't have to and they know they don't have to, they're threatened by what they're seeing.
There was one or two early thread on Era where I responded to claims that "no one is allowed to talk about the actual game" by going through the thread, highlighting people who were talking about the actual game, and showed off that they weren't engaging in the ongoing discussion about the game before complaining.
So, Minecraft 2 sure is looking good.
That looks kinda cool, but... Notch? Thanks but no thanks.
www.resetera.com
THQ Nordic announces SpongeBob SquarePants: Battle for Bikini Bottom Rehydrated (PS4, PC, XBOX ONE, NSW) [See Staff Post]
Yelling at people for voicing serious concerns isn't very adult. Or tactful.
www.resetera.com
Different issues being at the center of the whole thing, but same complaints of not being able to speak freely. Note that in one of those cases I encouraged them to discuss the game itself and instead was asked by several people to be removed from the list of people who wanted to talk about the game.
I was excited for this game, but seeing this shit I just cannot justify buying this.
Like I don't understand who would think that edgy humor about transpeople is funny, because humor that degrades people is the lowest form of humor.
This game feels like something a 14 year old edgy teenager thinks is cool.
Also to the people saying keep politics out of games. You cannot pick and choose when you are an ally and when you are not. If you say you care about trans people then show it by not supporting this game.
Like I don't understand who would think that edgy humor about transpeople is funny, because humor that degrades people is the lowest form of humor.
This game feels like something a 14 year old edgy teenager thinks is cool.
Also to the people saying keep politics out of games. You cannot pick and choose when you are an ally and when you are not. If you say you care about trans people then show it by not supporting this game.
I made my account long ago and have been lurking here since the forum opened.
I'm just kind of surprised of how you folks are handling this.
Discussion is fine and can be profitable. Banning discussions is not. (imo)
Except you can apply our world morality to immoral fictional world's. Good fiction does it all the time. You have the immoral things in the fictional world, even can show that they are common place, but you still show them as being wrong.mild take: if you don't touch on the problematic social issues as a reviewer you shouldn't be in the game review industry
to that end, take a look at thegamer.com's editor-in-chief Kirk McKeand who posted this gem in his review
I just don't get the idea that because the fictional world is immoral that glorifying the immoral nature of it is okay, it's not. If you want to throw immoral things in your Games, you need to highlight that they are wrong. Cyberpunk had the opportunity to do that but they said fuck that
The trajectory of that review thread affirmed to me that people don't actually... read reviews, do they? Those reviews managed to discuss a breadth of information about the game, from the combat to the sidequests to the problematic content, and there might have been some real discussion generated from that if folks didn't immediately want to derail with "where's the real review thread?". People really just want to tally up the scores and declare their uncritical hype.
Imagine being so privileged that you still wanna discuss your UPCOMING shiny new toy in a vacuum without ever thinking about the (political) messages or the circumstances of how the game got made. To normalize what CDPR did especially in their marketing is dehumanizing Trans people and normalizing all these GG gamer bro dudes. In something like the upcoming Harry Potter game, wou would actually give money to a fucking TERF. And sorry, but human rights and people being treated like humans is more important than the next AAA toy
Is there a point you were getting at with this? Look around at why discussion is banned for the time being.
Yeah people usually only care when it affects them. We see more people that bash companies about loot boxes over issues like these.
You see it more and more and it is becoming a problem, even when the dev themselves do not weaponize the fanbase people get way to attached to the studio/game they like. You actually saw it this year (but in a lesser degree) with naughty dog and tlou2, some people would lash out to anyone that had even a small critique on the game.
And if that happened, those people could be showed why the other people were banned or they could reveal themselves to be bad faith actors too. That's how things worked back at the old place when Bish was in charge, and it actually kept the worst elements either out or in line.