CDPR is a transphobic company. It's time we stop making excuses for them.
- Thread starter Kyuuji
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It's a bit vague now, so I may be wrong on details, but the mods became very aware of the Gamergate playbook and had zero tolerance for it. I remember a lot of "polite, just asking questions" types being thrown out without any questions of if they were being genuine or not. Bish in general was pretty zero tolerance from what I remember.
Ah, now that you mention that, I fear that it being added in after the controversy just makes too much sense.
Like I said in my post that got me temporarily banned, I would respect it more if he were actually being paid for it. But he did all this marketing for free and the reasons he did are far worse than just being handed cash.
Emotions are (understandably) running very high today, with people having first dealt with the Black Chudren harassment for days, and now the review thread(s) being full of idiots happy to hand wave everything for "muh vidyagame".
That's one of the reasons I'm sad it was closed. I thought it was really clever to frame the review thread in an inescapable manner.
He's not the only one - there's an influx of people rejoining after the situation that's been going on here.
At this point the board should just ban all topics of the game, excluding this thread. Any other thread that gets opened will devolve into the same meta-commentary that has been brought up again and again.
Well this says...a lot.Interesting that they match this product in particular with this slogan.
Beyond just being vapid and juvenile without the connections to the trans community.
Jeff G explicitly called out the Transphobia and how the game deploys Transphobic imagery without any willingness to actually have anything to say about it or even point it out as a bad thing. It wasn't necessarily super in-depth, but it was a pretty explicit acknowledgement of it's issues both in the game and in how CDPR has handled the leadup to release.
It was also an absolutely fucking amazing turnaround from Heavenly Sword and DmC. I've respect for Ninja Theory doing the work and managing to improve so much writing-wise and regarding their treatment of sensitive topics like mental health with only a single game. Really wish more developers would put in that kind of effort - if they can manage it for what was explicitly a mid budget AA release there's no real excuse for massive AAA projects to not do so too.
Ah, I see. Sounds like the right way to handle it.
That is even worse. I am very happy I left GAF after what happened there. I think that would be a good idea. cP 2077 is a huge controversy. And that before the end of the year.
I'm glad they brought it up. I was worried GB wouldn't feel equipped to talk about this at all, so I'm honestly happy to hear this.
I'm pleasantly surprised by the number of reviews that do tackle the transphobia properly, and also tie it back to a greater point that many of us feared from the trailers: the world is mean without purpose. I see screenshots of the game and still get so excited about what could have been, but I can't imagine myself really enjoying being in this world as its written and portrayed today. The wasted potential is a huge bummer.
God speed to the reviewers that had the confidence to put out the less positive reviews despite knowing the harrassment they will inevitably face as a result.
God speed to the reviewers that had the confidence to put out the less positive reviews despite knowing the harrassment they will inevitably face as a result.
Yeah, Gamergate became very obvious at a certain point, so it was easier for most mods and genuine posters to get on the same page. Problem with bigotry like transphobia is that you have people who have dealt with it and can see it coming from miles away against those who only see a "nice poster". The playbook isn't as clear to everybody.
100%. Their little video that you can watch from the game where the discuss how they literally brought in mental health advisors, they talked to people with the illness themselves, they had them attached every step of the way and made sure it did it justice as they wanted people to experience what it was like. If NT can do that for something as absolutely hard to understand like psychosis, than any studio should be able to do that for things like gender and race. The fact that they don't is a choice, and honestly a disgusting one.
Then, repaectfully, your question has been answered numerous.times.
You can present this type of world and all the shit parts of it without using that same marketing to promote your game.
The answer to your question was answered with kyuuji's dismantling of the Mix it Up advert.
The backlash to this new advert is because it not only could easily read as a coded response, but also that it so perfectly fits their entire approach.
Yes, this is a dark future, but there's no evidence they're exploring this meaningfully, it all seems to be cynical aesthetic and a love letter to edgy gamers.
Something that these reviews allude to that really blows me away is how shallow this game looks to be. "Honorable" Japanese gangs, fetishistic sexual violence, random Spanish curse words, literally everything involving Manticore, etc. Everything about this looks boring, regressive, and dated as fuck - how hard could it be to have respectful trans representation? Or non-stereotypical gangs? Or a nuanced depiction of sex work? God damn, Dan Houser and Joe Rogan must be proud - even that insipid new manticore ad is a tired retread.
I feel awful for any LGBT posters here who were excited for this game. I can't imagine what it's like watching others hype up a game that's so regressive and personally disrespectful. It's a shame, because a game of this scale taking on even a slightly more progressive tack could change a lot of hearts and minds, but instead this game is going to help some chuds grow even more entrenched. Ugh.
I'm a bit ignorant here, can someone tell what I'm missing here and why this is offensive? I don't understand the connection to the trans community.Interesting that they match this product in particular with this slogan.
Beyond just being vapid and juvenile without the connections to the trans community.
OP
OP
The product in view (Chromanticore) is what's related to trans people in the game and the source of a significant amount of the controversy, and contention, between CDPR and the trans community over the past year and a half.
The answer is in the OP. I highly recommend you read it :)
Something else that definitely occurs to me is that in regards to previous controversies, the staff have repeatedly mentioned their short-handed.
That being the case, that's further reason why I can't possibly imagine an OT being allowed at this point?
Because when that's done up numerous times in regards to previous controversies, IF the game were to be allowed to have an OT or the like, has something changed where the staff actually even has the resources to moderate a topic like that which would be required of that?
Are there even enough willing staff members to make sure such a thing doesn't get out of hand?
Because whatever discussions staffvate having, just based on what's happened alone, that itself seems like a huge issue without even touching on anything else, and potential reason enough to deny an OT or anything purely by itself because color me skeptical that the kind of resources to moderate such a topic would suddenly be there, and letting such a topic happen without the proper resources and manpower is an obviously terrible idea, so that should be case closed right there, ESPECIALLY when you then add everything else on top of it.
Because that's definitely something I DO NOT want to see happen:
An OT being allowed, but it inevitably bring closed because staff don't have the resources to keep it under control, and then them acting surprised and apologizing and everything, as if that scenario alone can't be seen coming from a mile away, especially after all the previous controversies on this site.
I do certainly hope the staff are considering their own self-admitted lack of resources in whatever discussions are happening behind the scenes, because yeah, that's obviously been a problem before and while that's understandable, that being the case, I don't see why it wouldn't be a considerable issue by itself here either.
That being the case, that's further reason why I can't possibly imagine an OT being allowed at this point?
Because when that's done up numerous times in regards to previous controversies, IF the game were to be allowed to have an OT or the like, has something changed where the staff actually even has the resources to moderate a topic like that which would be required of that?
Are there even enough willing staff members to make sure such a thing doesn't get out of hand?
Because whatever discussions staffvate having, just based on what's happened alone, that itself seems like a huge issue without even touching on anything else, and potential reason enough to deny an OT or anything purely by itself because color me skeptical that the kind of resources to moderate such a topic would suddenly be there, and letting such a topic happen without the proper resources and manpower is an obviously terrible idea, so that should be case closed right there, ESPECIALLY when you then add everything else on top of it.
Because that's definitely something I DO NOT want to see happen:
An OT being allowed, but it inevitably bring closed because staff don't have the resources to keep it under control, and then them acting surprised and apologizing and everything, as if that scenario alone can't be seen coming from a mile away, especially after all the previous controversies on this site.
I do certainly hope the staff are considering their own self-admitted lack of resources in whatever discussions are happening behind the scenes, because yeah, that's obviously been a problem before and while that's understandable, that being the case, I don't see why it wouldn't be a considerable issue by itself here either.
If you go back to the OP, Chromanticore is the drink from the transphobic ad.
Appreciate the explanation, Thanks all for the clarification.
That ad is something else
It's like a metacommentary on what people think trans people do (which is, if you're not with us, then fuck off) which is so... so dumb
It's like a metacommentary on what people think trans people do (which is, if you're not with us, then fuck off) which is so... so dumb
I obviously say this as someone who is kinda primarily active here in the GB OT, but my concern w/ GB discussing it would not be that they wouldn't care, but that they wouldn't feel equipped to get into it as Bufbaf said and that would backfire into not giving it the focus it deserves. So I'm glad to see that it was explicitly discussed.
Ty for grabbing this while I was unable to; I just do want to link my caveat about my quoting of the reviews as the person who selected those excerpts.
I think it's much better in the context of this thread so I don't have concerns about my OP being reposted, but it is something I would have tried to balance better if I'd had the time.
Ty for grabbing this while I was unable to; I just do want to link my caveat about my quoting of the reviews as the person who selected those excerpts.
I think it's much better in the context of this thread so I don't have concerns about my OP being reposted, but it is something I would have tried to balance better if I'd had the time.
We're not hosting one. Read the last few pages of this thread to see why.
I'm been struggling on how to articulate my feelings, and I've written and rewritten my thoughts several times, but I think what it boils down to is that Era presents itself as a video game message board first. If we want more progressive discussion Era needs to present itself as a progressive board that discusses video games; because right now Era is cultivating a userbase that is not equipped to discuss social issues beyond the level of understanding found on the six o'clock news.
Please ban discussion of this game going forward. If it hasn't been obvious given the number of threads created and then locked, the OT is going to be a fucking disaster and will result in a much much larger loss of the userbase than a CP2077 ban will.
edit: for clarity, I refer to the potential loss of LGBT and progressive users
Please ban discussion of this game going forward. If it hasn't been obvious given the number of threads created and then locked, the OT is going to be a fucking disaster and will result in a much much larger loss of the userbase than a CP2077 ban will.
edit: for clarity, I refer to the potential loss of LGBT and progressive users
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If the mods are understaffed they should definitely be considering recruiting members from the trans community here. Whatever the decision regarding an OT is, the priority absolutely must be protecting the trans community here from the kind of dismissal, gaslighting, and abuse they have had to endure for months.
Yeah I'm right there with you. The last game I had these kinds of feelings about was probably GTA V, which I played around 2014. Since then, I've only become more sensitized to these kinds of problematic things in games, and while I'm not totally incapable of enjoying games in spite of them, it just feels really anachronistic and bitter to have a company lean into these kinds of unfortunate tropes so whole heartedly today. Even looking at a company like Rockstar and comparing GTAV to RDR2, they came a long way. Is it perfect? Obviously not, but it feels like at least some effort was made to not be so mean-spirited and crass with the writing and marketing.
I haven't really contributed much to Cyberpunk threads lately because they have felt so volatile and because, frankly, I haven't really known what I can offer that others haven't said more eloquently and with much more genuine experience and knowledge than I have about trans issues. I think (or at least hope) that there are other users like me who have been kind of quietly trying to learn, or open myself up more to things that might not have been so obvious to me on my own.
I do hope its at least vindicating for many of the people who have worked hard throughout these threads to see some recognition of these issues by more mainstream reviewers. Ultimately we'll see how the reception of the game is at large once it comes out, but I hope there are others like myself who have been influenced by this discourse, and have sort of rethought their engagement with the game. I don't really know if its for me, given how much these harmful narratives seem to have influenced the character of the game's world. I think I might find more peace this week just farming some herbs in WoW instead of getting Cyberpunk.
Are you one of the affected groups? If not, I would respectfully ask you to stop calling for the banning of discussion.
Discussion of the problematic aspects are more important than concerns about retaining the userbase. Ultimately, though, it should be up to trans people here to decide how to handle this.
Watching Gamespot's video "Does it Live up to the Hype?" and there's some interesting comments being made. Kallie Plagge (who reviewed the game and gave it a 7/10) says that the central theme for the game is identity, yet it fails to flesh out all the various characters and gangs you come across despite them having interesting backstory and occasionally thoughtful things to say. She brings up the Voodoo Boys and a particular scene where one of their members say that they don't call themselves that, it's a moniker that society has given them. They also present a rather interesting and unexpected backstory but it's never fleshed out properly. Ultimately she felt that things were a bit pointless and that the game was afraid to say anything substantial. She said that she would've been fine if it tried to make points that she didn't agree with but the problem was that it didn't make any points at all.
Just caught up with everything. I think Imran Khan said it best when he said that Era is very performatively woke, and I think that extends to the mods too given how they handled this, and I have felt that way for a long time. People on here excuse the grossest shit for video games that they haven't even played. Just fucked up.
Not like it matters, but good riddance to people who post shit like that in a thread about trans issues.
That's actually very interesting. Mike Pondsmith's rationale for why the Voodoo Boys, who used to be a bunch of white characters who acted like racial stereotypes but were now suddenly just black characters inhabiting the same stereotypes, was that they were supposedly reclaiming the name and gang. Of course, if that's not a name they use for themselves and is just an identity that society has imposed on them then they're not really reclaiming shit, it's just racial stereotypes.
Not really. The mods' current decision to redirect cyberpunk discussion to this thread disproves your point.
I think it's been proven by the constant locking of threads and from the bannings of people that were critical of the OP from the Night Wire OTs (forget the username) that the moderation team is ill-equipped to handle topics on 2077, and their inability to maintain a safe-space will do more to drive away trans people from this community than it will to retain them.
Just my opinion on the subject but if discussion is being allowed about the game it needs to be allowed on all aspects of the game in separate discussions. I say this as someone who is not ok with the items in the game.
They've handled so many issues in the past on this website badly so no, I don't agree at all.
To rephrase what I said in a more polite and sympathetic way, for the sake of the staff's own mental health and well being and not working themselves to death providing the kind of moderation an OT/review thread would require, that's just further reason an OT should not be allowed.
The same thing benefits both the mental health and well being of transgender members and staff alike.IIt doesn't seem worth it in any way for either group. Especially since of course the staff themselves are human and can only do so much and need rest and stuff, but nonetheless the world moves on while they're resting, which leads to stuff getting missed, which leads to people being angry and discontent at the staff, which turns into a whole feedback loop in of itself, and yeah.
Putting that together, the answer seems rather straightforward at that point, but that's my point of view. That the transgender community and the staff should be aligned on this and it would be mutually beneficial to both groups to just keep the thing banned, but like I said, that's just my POV.
The same thing benefits both the mental health and well being of transgender members and staff alike.IIt doesn't seem worth it in any way for either group. Especially since of course the staff themselves are human and can only do so much and need rest and stuff, but nonetheless the world moves on while they're resting, which leads to stuff getting missed, which leads to people being angry and discontent at the staff, which turns into a whole feedback loop in of itself, and yeah.
Putting that together, the answer seems rather straightforward at that point, but that's my point of view. That the transgender community and the staff should be aligned on this and it would be mutually beneficial to both groups to just keep the thing banned, but like I said, that's just my POV.
At this point the well is thoroughly poisoned. There will be no discussion that exists without trolls antagonizing the trans community here.
I guess? If you can quote that bit of the post I linked or even just link to it, that might be best.
though, also, you should edit in a quote from that Kotaku review I didn't see in time regardless!
This is great that it's being referenced and discussed - hopefully CDPR feels the heat. I am a little disappointed to see nothing in Eurogamer's impressions about it, but I suppose I'll wait for the final review. Usually an outlet that I would trust to address these things.
Interesting that they match this product in particular with this slogan.
Beyond just being vapid and juvenile without the connections to the trans community.
That's definitely a dog whistle.
i watched the giant bomb livestream chat about cp2077 and they were upfront with their disappointment in how cdpr never really mention the transphobia in the game (in the sense that they never bring the issues to light). very disappointing. i'm grateful some media outlets are willing to talk about the issues, sad that many outlets glance over it.