It's been an (im)perfect shit storm building for years. CDPR was hailed as divine by gamers because they said one time that they won't do MXT bullshit or whatever, so they were pitted as the anti-EA and the "true gamer devs". Combine that with an under utilized genre, and following the most gamer hyped game ever that they made last time. In other words yea, this is the game they will do it for.That One S footage in the spoiler thread.... THAT is the game people are willing to go mask off for?
Yeah, this. Take your time, relax a bit. The fight is there and we can have it when we need to, but throwing ourselves out there and getting banned now just means that they get their free hype after unlock without having to confront how others feel.I said this to Kyuuji privately and I'll say it here
Fighting to convince the .5% who will listen may be worth it, but don't catch a ban for it, and don't waste your time.
There are plenty of people in that OT thread with bad faith takes and interactions with many of you that frequent this this thread. It's not worth it to explain shit to them. They aren't going to be convinced.
The fight never stops but your battles have to be chosen.
You both are absolutely right.Yeah, this. Take your time, relax a bit. The fight is there and we can have it when we need to, but throwing ourselves out there and getting banned now just means that they get their free hype after unlock without having to confront how others feel.
I don't blame any of you for the anger, the things you feel. And I will never do so.
I said this to Kyuuji privately and I'll say it here
Fighting to convince the .5% who will listen may be worth it, but don't catch a ban for it, and don't waste your time.
There are plenty of people in that OT thread with bad faith takes and interactions with many of you that frequent this this thread. It's not worth it to explain shit to them. They aren't going to be convinced.
The fight never stops but your battles have to be chosen.
I honestly feel like we need to talk to staff and sort all of this out. all of this is really horrible and I just want to talk to someone and work stuff out because this isn't ok at all. I feel terrible for everyone involved and like I feel a constructive conversation with staff is necessary after all of this. And when I mean talk I mean a well constructed very detailed list of issues that we can work through in a quick and efficient manner. I know this requires planning but I think it would be for the best for everyone involved to start working through all of this.Well, I think my time here might be up too. My mental health is in a precarious enough place on my best days, seeing a total lack of empathy and compassion isn't really something I'm keen on subjecting myself to constantly. Love you all, you're fantastic. <3
wait I was gone 2 hours playing with friends and I come back to icemonk getting banned and that pm that just reeks of sand burying. What the absolute fuck is that shit I am really grossed out and disgusted with that dude even more now. That man needs his OT taken away from him there is no excuse. Dude doesn't give a fuck about trans issues and that thread is even worse than it was before. I'm severely considering leaving sooner than I thought if this is how Era sees us in the community. But hell might as well derail the thread talking about trans issues. It's more fucked when you realize the first replies when the OT opened up were from racist dickheads. I'm really frustrated and upset and I have no words. Era needs to do better and while I've fucking fought for this community tonight has been very hard to keep going. I'm still glad I made those initial threads to get the ball rolling for us to get here even if we are kicked in the face with sand just for us to see some of these people go completely mask off with stuff I've known for a long time being a problem with the site. And that gaming side lacks any moderation oversight and needs a deep cleaning badly.
This has already happened with multiple other communities and things didn't change for them.I honestly feel like we need to talk to staff and sort all of this out. all of this is really horrible and I just want to talk to someone and work stuff out because this isn't ok at all. I feel terrible for everyone involved and like I feel a constructive conversation with staff is necessary after all of this. And when I mean talk I mean a well constructed very detailed list of issues that we can work through in a quick and efficient manner. I know this requires planning but I think it would be for the best for everyone involved to start working through all of this.
But I mean why bother, its clear no one gives a remote toss, why not eat the ban.
If we have to get banned, it's better to use it where it matters and not where it falls on deaf ears. Unfortunate, but true. There is a better time.But I mean why bother, its clear no one gives a remote toss, why not eat the ban.
hey I was there for the original trans era conversation I want to believe that it can work.This has already happened with multiple other communities and things didn't change for them.
If we have to get banned, it's better to use it where it matters and not where it falls on deaf ears. Unfortunate, but true. There is a better time.
The Community Feedback thread was made 4 months ago.I guess I just feel like change is still possible and improvement still on the table.
But thinking about KetKat's situation and that whole thread from last year and I'm like "maybe that's a pipe dream."
Pretty much. There are definitely communities within this site where you'll encounter legitimately progressive people and I've had a lot of genuinely great interactions with people on here, but the image of the site as a whole being some progressive bastion for gaming discussion doesn't hold up at all.Last post before I'm done I swear(just finished Miles Morales and wanted to catch up), this place has never really been "progressive" lots of it is performative. I'm not saying there aren't any genuinely progressive people but this place has massive issues with racism, transphobia and ableism in general but if you're clever enough to hide it under a bunch of paragraphs in a "civil" manner you'll more than likely get away with it.
I didn't follow that conversation (wasn't an active member back then), but this one has been happening for months. It's hard to have hope.I guess I just feel like change is still possible and improvement still on the table.
But thinking about KetKat's situation and that whole thread from last year and I'm like "maybe that's a pipe dream."
This has already happened with multiple other communities and things didn't change for them.
There absolutely is. There have been multiple bad nights like this. But throwing ourselves on the firing lines tonight is not the call. We can fight, but if we stay calm it will go better. One way or another, staff involvement will happen soon, and we deserve to have our voices heard once they do show. Every voice banned before that time is another they do not hear.A better time where someone would actually listen though, do you believe that? After tonight Im not sure
I didn't follow that conversation (wasn't an active member back then), but this one has been happening for months. It's hard to have hope.
You're right but all I can think of is for staff to talk to us and we come up with a faster solution so that we can mitigate the hurt and damage the trans community has faced from this recently. I don't want any more of us to fracture as it is and we need to push for change. We need more talks and more discussions because like you said stuff hasn't changed quickly enough. Maybe if we give more constructive feedback I think we can get through this much easier with much less of a headache going forward and speed up change on the site so it's much better in general. It's honestly the only idea I have now that can satisfy everyone here if a productive conversation happens with staff. An idea i have is maybe appointing a community ambassador to lead these talks and help construct the outline for the overall discussion.I'm fully aware, as I participated in all of these issues.
One part of me thinks progress hasn't been quick enough, which leads to the idea that progress hasn't happened or hasn't happened in a meaningful way, and another part of me has seen moderation address the OT and threads as a result of conversations with TransEra.
And as I said, maybe I'm just living in a fantasy or whatever. I don't know. I'm tired. So is TransEra.
I don't know what to do. I don't think getting banned is worth it. I don't think constantly duking it out in the OT is worth it.
With this and the gross anti-Asian sentiment on this forum (not on this thread) I feel increasingly uncomfortable on this site tbh.
Credit to Kyuuji on this:I'm going to admit that I didn't dig into these issues enough and kinda brushed them off as poorly mismanaged social media posts and poorly phrased statements, etc. After looking at what's going on in the other thread and also seeing the discourse that y'all are having here, I realized I have a lot more to learn about issues affecting the trans community. Thank you for bringing these things to light outside of this thread, and I'm truly sorry to see the kind of responses you've had to deal with. I doubt I will engage in any discourse on this site about this game, really, except maybe to come back here and see if people are analyzing/deconstructing just what sort of messages CDPR put into the game (though now that I've examined the issue and their stances I seriously doubt they'll have addressed this in any sort of meaningful way).
I've already preordered the game, but I'd like to 'offset' my financial support of CDPR by donating the same amount of money to an organization that supports trans issues. Could someone point me in the right direction here? I know it is not an elegant solution... nor does it really act as any sort of solution at all or 'absolve' the purchase in any way, but I don't intend for that to be my only action. As I said, I realize I have a lot more learning to do on these issues.
So yeah, I greatly appreciate y'all taking the time to lay out these issues in an informative and non-judgemental way (despite all the judgement that is being thrown your way) and I can only hope that more people will be receptive of what you are trying to do.
That's a kind thought Namikaze1 and xyla ~ you could donate to a local trans charity in your respective countries, or here's a link to donate to one in Poland directly - http://transfuzja.org/en/artykuly/donate.htm. General info on Trans-Fuzja here. Appreciate you both popping in.
The HP situation could get even worse because there are going to be endless "think of the devs, not their fault!" takes.If mods don't get it together for Harry Potter, all hell will break loose (more than now). The JK conversation has reached a verdict a LONG time ago. They cant allow a repeat of this botch job.
Also, my heart felt apology for this absolute trainwreck of a handling of the Cyberpunk shit. There were plenty avenues that could have been taken to make yall feel welcome on the site. None of them were taken.
What's worse is that HP shows a direct evolution of people's train of thoughts in trying to justify bigotry. You can at least try to ration your way out of CDPR being rampantly transphobic to its core (Just bad PR, look at all of these LGBT+ devs, bs like that). You cant argue your way out of JK being a bigot without going into TERF territory. Even then people just go from ignoring or handwaving the issue (CDPR), straight to "I have reclaimed this from ________"/Separate the art from the artist/Death of the author/Think of the_______ ....The HP situation could get even worse because there are going to be endless "think of the devs, not their fault!" takes.
I do find it interesting that this site bans threads on games that are deemed problematic (I believe it's the same list of games that Twitch has banned from streaming), but will gladly welcome threads on Cyberpunk 2077, even though... the content in the game has been deemed problematic.
At least getting a statement that JK Rowling sucks in the OT probably won't be like pulling teeth.The HP situation could get even worse because there are going to be endless "think of the devs, not their fault!" takes.
Don't forget "There's no ethical consumption under capitalism", the go to for people that want to look "woke" while not giving a shit.What's worse is that HP shows a direct evolution of people's train of thoughts in trying to justify bigotry. You can at least try to ration your way out of CDPR being rampantly transphobic to its core (Just bad PR, look at all of these LGBT+ devs, bs like that). You cant argue your way out of JK being a bigot without going into TERF territory. Even then people just go from ignoring or handwaving the issue (CDPR), straight to "I have reclaimed this from ________"/Separate the art from the artist/Death of the author/Think of the_______ ....
The HP situation could get even worse because there are going to be endless "think of the devs, not their fault!" takes.
Probably not as much at this point since the HP brand isn't what it used to be.See I'm still not sure, I expect it to be bad but not as much, do people really love and care about HP as much as "Gamers" care about CDPR?
Of course now I say it aloud I'm ignoring the obvious amount of people who will defend HP just to be contrary and "stick it" to the SJW's
I think one thing moving forward is transferring ownership of the OT to someone who is better equipped to handle these sort of issues I feel strongly about this just from the genuine revulsion from trans era and it would be in the sites best interests to move forward with someone who is more willing to listen to trans issues going forward. I'm sure the current OT may have positive trans inclusion, however:
I really do feel like a lot of this can be worked out and I am not really demanding anything with these statements more like suggestions more than anything.
- I do not feel that the OT itself should not be OP'ed by these people if these are the responses from them.
- I also feel like punishing the correct people in this situation will be an excellent step towards mending the situation such as the opening posts of the thread thanking the op.
- perhaps appointing a community ambassador who is actively engaging in these discussions be able to quickly pick up on negative situations like this. I know staff can't be everywhere but I do feel that staff can do better at reacting to these kinds of situations and be able to peacefully resolve them. I get that stuff are human beings and we should respect them especially when it comes to making mistakes.
- I also feel like in order to clamp down on this further we need to establish some better forum rules to protect minorities further than what we are seeing now. We should not be at the point where everyone is so angry. I guess right now the best course would be to wait out everyone so better heads can prevail and discussions can commence.
edit: i changed this up a bit to fit a bit better with what I'm feeling. I desperately need something to grasp on to move forward after feeling so low.
The amount of people who are actively complaining about the Cyberpunk stuff is minuscule. You can't ignore the JK Rowling discourse, mainstream media took it and ran with it, in a way they never did with CDPR. Rowling herself made it sure her views are crystal clear.See I'm still not sure, I expect it to be bad but not as much, do people really love and care about HP as much as "Gamers" care about CDPR?
Of course now I say it aloud I'm ignoring the obvious amount of people who will defend HP just to be contrary and "stick it" to the SJW's
The bolded is the bare minimum that should be done. They've shown they're completely incapable of appropriately handling the controversies surrounding this game, even on a basic empathetic level.I think one thing moving forward is transferring ownership of the OT to someone who is better equipped to handle these sort of issues I feel strongly about this just from the genuine revulsion from trans era and it would be in the sites best interests to move forward with someone who is more willing to listen to trans issues going forward. I'm sure the current OT may have positive trans inclusion, however:
I really do feel like a lot of this can be worked out and I am not really demanding anything with these statements more like suggestions more than anything.
- I do not feel that the OT itself should not be OP'ed by these people if these are the responses from them.
- I also feel like punishing the correct people in this situation will be an excellent step towards mending the situation such as the opening posts of the thread thanking the op.
- perhaps appointing a community ambassador who is actively engaging in these discussions be able to quickly pick up on negative situations like this. I know staff can't be everywhere but I do feel that staff can do better at reacting to these kinds of situations and be able to peacefully resolve them. I get that stuff are human beings and we should respect them especially when it comes to making mistakes.
- I also feel like in order to clamp down on this further we need to establish some better forum rules to protect minorities further than what we are seeing now. We should not be at the point where everyone is so angry. I guess right now the best course would be to wait out everyone so better heads can prevail and discussions can commence.
edit: i changed this up a bit to fit a bit better with what I'm feeling. I desperately need something to grasp on to move forward after feeling so low.
I'm glad you appreciate them I do think that we all can get together and brainstorm more ideas as a community to fix this so that we have something we feel like we're in control of I know that helps me calm down alot. I feel bad about getting so angry and I hate it a lot but hey I've been tumbling ideas in my head for a good while.