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CDPR is a transphobic company. It's time we stop making excuses for them.
- Thread starter Kyuuji
- Start date
It's been an (im)perfect shit storm building for years. CDPR was hailed as divine by gamers because they said one time that they won't do MXT bullshit or whatever, so they were pitted as the anti-EA and the "true gamer devs". Combine that with an under utilized genre, and following the most gamer hyped game ever that they made last time. In other words yea, this is the game they will do it for.
Yeah, this. Take your time, relax a bit. The fight is there and we can have it when we need to, but throwing ourselves out there and getting banned now just means that they get their free hype after unlock without having to confront how others feel.
I don't blame any of you for the anger, the things you feel. And I will never do so.
You both are absolutely right.
I think it's time for some TrashPandas.
I can't believe it's coming to this. I wish people weren't leaving, but I also can't blame any of y'all for feeling like this is your time to take a step back or a step out.
Hopefully by tomorrow the staff will figure out something to deal with this situation, because it would really hurt to see all of you go.
Hopefully by tomorrow the staff will figure out something to deal with this situation, because it would really hurt to see all of you go.
But I mean why bother, its clear no one gives a remote toss, why not eat the ban.
I honestly feel like we need to talk to staff and sort all of this out. all of this is really horrible and I just want to talk to someone and work stuff out because this isn't ok at all. I feel terrible for everyone involved and like I feel a constructive conversation with staff is necessary after all of this. And when I mean talk I mean a well constructed very detailed list of issues that we can work through in a quick and efficient manner. I know this requires planning but I think it would be for the best for everyone involved to start working through all of this.
The fact that the dude not only didn't try and head it off in advance but actively went down the "everyone is welcome/all live matter" route feels pretty telling to be honest. This was all extremely predictable and anybody who has been paying the least bit of attention would have seen this coming from 2 years ago and the way the site has handled the issue is pretty disgraceful albeit not entirely surprising.
The trans community keeps having to eat shit on here and it hasn't gone unnoticed, I'm expressing solidarity again for what little it's worth.
This has already happened with multiple other communities and things didn't change for them.
Look, the Cyberpunk OT is going down one way or another, that ship sailed a long time ago. At this point the best thing administration could do is make sure whoever is running the main, Spoiler, and the review OTs, is someone with a proven track record who will properly communicate with the trans members of the site. All of this could have been so, so, SO easily avoided.
I guess I just feel like change is still possible and improvement still on the table.
But thinking about KetKat's situation and that whole thread from last year and I'm like "maybe that's a pipe dream."
If we have to get banned, it's better to use it where it matters and not where it falls on deaf ears. Unfortunate, but true. There is a better time.
hey I was there for the original trans era conversation I want to believe that it can work.
A better time where someone would actually listen though, do you believe that? After tonight Im not sure
The Community Feedback thread was made 4 months ago.
Nothing has changed sadly.
Pretty much. There are definitely communities within this site where you'll encounter legitimately progressive people and I've had a lot of genuinely great interactions with people on here, but the image of the site as a whole being some progressive bastion for gaming discussion doesn't hold up at all.
The problem is that I feel like it's tough to see anyway forward for meaningful change as a lot of those positive communities have splintered or moved on and it feels like it'd be hard to root out the toxic culture as like you say, people have figured out that you can get away with posting toxic or dismissive garbage if you appear polite, the toxic behaviour is too entrenched at this point.
I'm probably being too pessimistic. It just sucks to see this sort of thing happen over and over again and the only thing that seems to come out of it is that the site loses some great posters and important communities.
I also wish to express my solidarity with TransEra. The lack of empathy that continues to be displayed in that OT is truly abhorrent. It's infuriating that the trans community's concerns are being outright dismissed or being treated as an annoyance getting in the way of people's hype. As so many here have said, you deserve far, far better than that.
I didn't follow that conversation (wasn't an active member back then), but this one has been happening for months. It's hard to have hope.
While you may be right, that doesn't mean the conversation shouldn't happen at all. At some point there will have to be a breaking point because these conversations DO keep happening.
There absolutely is. There have been multiple bad nights like this. But throwing ourselves on the firing lines tonight is not the call. We can fight, but if we stay calm it will go better. One way or another, staff involvement will happen soon, and we deserve to have our voices heard once they do show. Every voice banned before that time is another they do not hear.
I'm fully aware, as I participated in all of these issues.
One part of me thinks progress hasn't been quick enough, which leads to the idea that progress hasn't happened or hasn't happened in a meaningful way, and another part of me has seen moderation address the OT and threads as a result of conversations with TransEra.
And as I said, maybe I'm just living in a fantasy or whatever. I don't know. I'm tired. So is TransEra.
I don't know what to do. I don't think getting banned is worth it. I don't think constantly duking it out in the OT is worth it.
I'm going to admit that I didn't dig into these issues enough and kinda brushed them off as poorly mismanaged social media posts and poorly phrased statements, etc. After looking at what's going on in the other thread and also seeing the discourse that y'all are having here, I realized I have a lot more to learn about issues affecting the trans community. Thank you for bringing these things to light outside of this thread, and I'm truly sorry to see the kind of responses you've had to deal with. I doubt I will engage in any discourse on this site about this game, really, except maybe to come back here and see if people are analyzing/deconstructing just what sort of messages CDPR put into the game (though now that I've examined the issue and their stances I seriously doubt they'll have addressed this in any sort of meaningful way).
I've already preordered the game, but I'd like to 'offset' my financial support of CDPR by donating the same amount of money to an organization that supports trans issues. Could someone point me in the right direction here? I know it is not an elegant solution... nor does it really act as any sort of solution at all or 'absolve' the purchase in any way, but I don't intend for that to be my only action. As I said, I realize I have a lot more learning to do on these issues.
So yeah, I greatly appreciate y'all taking the time to lay out these issues in an informative and non-judgemental way (despite all the judgement that is being thrown your way) and I can only hope that more people will be receptive of what you are trying to do.
I've already preordered the game, but I'd like to 'offset' my financial support of CDPR by donating the same amount of money to an organization that supports trans issues. Could someone point me in the right direction here? I know it is not an elegant solution... nor does it really act as any sort of solution at all or 'absolve' the purchase in any way, but I don't intend for that to be my only action. As I said, I realize I have a lot more learning to do on these issues.
So yeah, I greatly appreciate y'all taking the time to lay out these issues in an informative and non-judgemental way (despite all the judgement that is being thrown your way) and I can only hope that more people will be receptive of what you are trying to do.
Just want to send you all my love. I know that means basically nothing. I'm sorry this has been such a shitty day on this forum. In all honesty it's just more of what's been happening for a while. All of you deserve better from the posters and the mods. I hope you all can get a break from the toxicity here, and that some actions are taken to make this place less awful.
You're right but all I can think of is for staff to talk to us and we come up with a faster solution so that we can mitigate the hurt and damage the trans community has faced from this recently. I don't want any more of us to fracture as it is and we need to push for change. We need more talks and more discussions because like you said stuff hasn't changed quickly enough. Maybe if we give more constructive feedback I think we can get through this much easier with much less of a headache going forward and speed up change on the site so it's much better in general. It's honestly the only idea I have now that can satisfy everyone here if a productive conversation happens with staff. An idea i have is maybe appointing a community ambassador to lead these talks and help construct the outline for the overall discussion.
Agreed. The recent thread about the monster hunter movie was just another frustrating exemple of this.
If mods don't get it together for Harry Potter, all hell will break loose (more than now). The JK conversation has reached a verdict a LONG time ago. They cant allow a repeat of this botch job.
Also, my heart felt apology for this absolute trainwreck of a handling of the Cyberpunk shit. There were plenty avenues that could have been taken to make yall feel welcome on the site. None of them were taken.
Also, my heart felt apology for this absolute trainwreck of a handling of the Cyberpunk shit. There were plenty avenues that could have been taken to make yall feel welcome on the site. None of them were taken.
The HP situation could get even worse because there are going to be endless "think of the devs, not their fault!" takes.
Just following along with this has been exhausting, and I'm not even involved myself. I wish I was strong enough and clear enough myself to do whatever I could to help, but I'm not, so I must thank those that are for picking up that sword. I haven't really involved myself with TransEra since the move here, but I wish I did now. Admittedly, being transgender myself, moments like these make me wonder if my socially transitioning is even worth it. But that's not here or there, and I've luckily got a knowledgeable therapist to talk to about that.
I just want to say thank you to everyone here. Honestly, I don't really know what else to say other than I wish this site was better.
I just want to say thank you to everyone here. Honestly, I don't really know what else to say other than I wish this site was better.
I do find it interesting that this site bans threads on games that are deemed problematic (I believe it's the same list of games that Twitch has banned from streaming), but will gladly welcome threads on Cyberpunk 2077, even though... the content in the game has been deemed problematic.
What's worse is that HP shows a direct evolution of people's train of thoughts in trying to justify bigotry. You can at least try to ration your way out of CDPR being rampantly transphobic to its core (Just bad PR, look at all of these LGBT+ devs, bs like that). You cant argue your way out of JK being a bigot without going into TERF territory. Even then people just go from ignoring or handwaving the issue (CDPR), straight to "I have reclaimed this from ________"/Separate the art from the artist/Death of the author/Think of the_______ ....
I think one thing moving forward is transferring ownership of the OT to someone who is better equipped to handle these sort of issues I feel strongly about this just from the genuine revulsion from trans era and it would be in the sites best interests to move forward with someone who is more willing to listen to trans issues going forward. I'm sure the current OT may have positive trans inclusion, however:
edit: i changed this up a bit to fit a bit better with what I'm feeling. I desperately need something to grasp on to move forward after feeling so low.
- I do not feel that the OT itself should not be OP'ed by these people if these are the responses from them.
- I also feel like punishing the correct people in this situation will be an excellent step towards mending the situation such as the opening posts of the thread thanking the op.
- perhaps appointing a community ambassador who is actively engaging in these discussions be able to quickly pick up on negative situations like this. I know staff can't be everywhere but I do feel that staff can do better at reacting to these kinds of situations and be able to peacefully resolve them. I get that stuff are human beings and we should respect them especially when it comes to making mistakes.
- I also feel like in order to clamp down on this further we need to establish some better forum rules to protect minorities further than what we are seeing now. We should not be at the point where everyone is so angry. I guess right now the best course would be to wait out everyone so better heads can prevail and discussions can commence.
edit: i changed this up a bit to fit a bit better with what I'm feeling. I desperately need something to grasp on to move forward after feeling so low.
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Massive game, lots of traffic. You know the deal. Only thing I can think of, really.
Also, when it comes right down to it, its all talk. That much has been shown time and time again. I cant imagine the shit show this place this will be HP rolls around.
At least getting a statement that JK Rowling sucks in the OT probably won't be like pulling teeth.
Don't forget "There's no ethical consumption under capitalism", the go to for people that want to look "woke" while not giving a shit.
See I'm still not sure, I expect it to be bad but not as much, do people really love and care about HP as much as "Gamers" care about CDPR?
Of course now I say it aloud I'm ignoring the obvious amount of people who will defend HP just to be contrary and "stick it" to the SJW's
Probably not as much at this point since the HP brand isn't what it used to be.
There absolutely will be that group for sure though. "Open world Harry Potter without political bullshit or agendas!? A true game for true gamers and nerds!".
Spent the day shoveling and playing Control and come back to all of this mess. No way I can address it all so I am going to hit a few points.
First to all other members of the trans community. I won't leave, I was born angry and always have some kind of bug up my ass regardless of whether it's about my gender identity or not and I don't scare easy. But if anyone does I get it, and your not in the wrong, I probably SHOULD leave, I just won't. But if anyone does don't get banned, keep access to your account at least for PM's, my ear is always open and so are others.
And if there is movement we need a discord or something completely in our control, it's the individuals that make the community and I would miss so many of you.
Next, I have said this before and would like to co-sign Kyrona 's post about Kyuuji and the pressure and burden that is put on her, it's not fair to either her or the rest of us.
Beth Cyra if you need to leave do so but don't disappear. As an older person who has been active in forums for decades while I don't want to put a burden on you either you are an elder stateperson in these circles and your contributions are invaluable, though again I get it when you've been around this long and the things that happen (and a lot of posters don't seem to realize this issue don't go away when logging off, just being in the real world as a trans person is a seesaw between anger and fear on a daily basis for lots of us) I am sure you are tired, I know I am.
But other than looking into changing my screen name soon I'll still be here if people need to back and forth, and our own space where those who stay and those who leave can stay in contact would be nice.
Last I am at the point I support and will give support to our community, but I have no more interest in fighting with astroturfers and shills about my humanity over their game. In fact I think it's pretty shit even for good games and for once I agree wholeheartedly with PlanetSmasher, hype threads in general are just useless, at worst situations like this, but even at the best they mostly just contribute to fanboy warring and my game/console/hypemeter is bigger than yours type bullshit.
I could go on and on but would rather not, just choosing to address the few points I felt a need to, now I am back out to play Control, love to all those who deserve it, you know who you are.
First to all other members of the trans community. I won't leave, I was born angry and always have some kind of bug up my ass regardless of whether it's about my gender identity or not and I don't scare easy. But if anyone does I get it, and your not in the wrong, I probably SHOULD leave, I just won't. But if anyone does don't get banned, keep access to your account at least for PM's, my ear is always open and so are others.
And if there is movement we need a discord or something completely in our control, it's the individuals that make the community and I would miss so many of you.
Next, I have said this before and would like to co-sign Kyrona 's post about Kyuuji and the pressure and burden that is put on her, it's not fair to either her or the rest of us.
Beth Cyra if you need to leave do so but don't disappear. As an older person who has been active in forums for decades while I don't want to put a burden on you either you are an elder stateperson in these circles and your contributions are invaluable, though again I get it when you've been around this long and the things that happen (and a lot of posters don't seem to realize this issue don't go away when logging off, just being in the real world as a trans person is a seesaw between anger and fear on a daily basis for lots of us) I am sure you are tired, I know I am.
But other than looking into changing my screen name soon I'll still be here if people need to back and forth, and our own space where those who stay and those who leave can stay in contact would be nice.
Last I am at the point I support and will give support to our community, but I have no more interest in fighting with astroturfers and shills about my humanity over their game. In fact I think it's pretty shit even for good games and for once I agree wholeheartedly with PlanetSmasher, hype threads in general are just useless, at worst situations like this, but even at the best they mostly just contribute to fanboy warring and my game/console/hypemeter is bigger than yours type bullshit.
I could go on and on but would rather not, just choosing to address the few points I felt a need to, now I am back out to play Control, love to all those who deserve it, you know who you are.
This sounds really reasonable and I hope the mods see it.
The amount of people who are actively complaining about the Cyberpunk stuff is minuscule. You can't ignore the JK Rowling discourse, mainstream media took it and ran with it, in a way they never did with CDPR. Rowling herself made it sure her views are crystal clear.
Posters who are still buying the game are going to have a real hard time ignoring people this time, they will likely slip up at somepoint and share what they really believe, and its going to be a shit show.
The bolded is the bare minimum that should be done. They've shown they're completely incapable of appropriately handling the controversies surrounding this game, even on a basic empathetic level.
I'm glad you appreciate them I do think that we all can get together and brainstorm more ideas as a community to fix this so that we have something we feel like we're in control of I know that helps me calm down alot. I feel bad about getting so angry and I hate it a lot but hey I've been tumbling ideas in my head for a good while.
Edit: if anyone has any more ideas please dm me and I can compile a list of ideas that can be sent to staff to be looked over. I feel like that should help and be something constructive we can do for the time being.
I think one mistake in the past was the community improvement discussions regarding the transgender, Asian, and black communities is that the conversations were kept strictly to OT. But many of the problems were stemming from gaming side. If you never venture into OT, which I sometimes do, you would have never known about them. These things need to be addressed on gaming side as well. It's not going to solve all of the problems, not even close, but at bare minimum those community discussion threads should have been linked in gaming side as well. Sometimes you can't separate social and community issues apart from gaming.