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DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
A polarizing entry that some fans of the previous installment hate for "what it does" to classic characters, while other fans love it for how original and bold it was in trying new things and not rehashing old story templates.

Chrono Cross, just like The Last Jedi, has an aura of "controversy" despite the fact that most reviews, both from professionals and from fans, were actually positive.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,871
Guess I need to watch The Last Jedi then

Chrono Cross' hate was always ridiculous. "I hate what they did to the characters!" makes me put my hands in the air praying for them to grow up
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
I get where he's coming from; in that Chrono Cross is basically a fan fiction sequel to Chrono Trigger in the same way that the Disney Star Wars Trilogy is a fan fiction sequel to the Prequel and Original Star Wars Trilogies. I don't acknowledge either as part of the actual, original stories.

I can dig that analogy.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Not even close.
Chrono Cross is deemed as worse than Trigger, but still really good.
Last Jedi has half of SW fans thinking it's really bad and hurt the franchise as a whole.

A closer comparison would be something like DmC or similar.
 

Annabel

Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,677
I think DmC would work better in this analogy, cause at least people have softened up on CC over the years.

Meanwhile DmC is still hotly debated on whether it was good or not, even though it reviewed really well.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,774
True, I don't really like either. Though CC was following up one of my favorite games ever, and TLJ was following up a movie I didn't think was all that good either.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,871
I get where he's coming from; in that Chrono Cross is basically a fan fiction sequel to Chrono Trigger in the same way that the Disney Star Wars Trilogy is a fan fiction sequel to the Prequel and Original Star Wars Trilogies. I don't acknowledge either as part of the actual, original stories.

I can dig that analogy.

Fanfiction isn't a pejorative though, there are plenty of great stories in fanfictions that even upends the original work in terms of sheer quality.
 
OP
OP
DiipuSurotu

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
People actually like CC though.........

pWaRCT8.png
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,663
People really love talking about The Last Jedi, huh.

Other than the inexplicably weird shit CC does to the original cast, I never found it all that controversial back in the day, but I never played it again so I may have forgotten some stuff.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341
The only controversy about The Last Jedi is that so many people can't parse basic stuff.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,041
eh...not on board with this. Chrono Cross is an OK game but a terrible sequel to Chrono Trigger.

Chrono Cross followed up what was at the time a pretty good time travel story, but ditched the time travel aspect entirely for a cross dimensional narrative.
The original cast barely makes an appearance, and when they do it was in a throwaway scene that implies they either died or came to a bad end.

from a gameplay perspective, Chrono Trigger attempts to do the "cast of thousands" bit with a staggeringly huge party- but screws it up. There's little distinction between party members other than saying the exact same thing in a different silly accent. Compare this to how Suikoden 1 and 2 handle the same approach with larger casts- Chrono Cross' approach looks lazy and poorly thought out.

And Ye gods- trying to get the true ending without a walkthrough was a nightmare. This is not a game I look fondly on.
 

LuckyLinus

Member
Jun 1, 2018
1,939
I always liked Chrono Cross but not nearly as much as Chrono Trigger. Its not really a sequel in the same way as the last jedi though, its more of a spiritual successor.

What also sets them apart is that the last jedi took canon lore and pretty much ruined it, Trigger wasnt really effected in that way by choices made in Cross.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,191
i thought it did cool stuff with Chrono Trigger's mythos

unfortunately it was a mess of a game
 

JigsawPSN

Banned
Apr 11, 2019
150
A polarizing entry that some fans of the previous installment hate for "what it does" to classic characters

which is funny, cosidering that in later versions of chrono trigger, these characters pretty much died anyway in the new canon ending

"The cutscene that ended the Playstation version of Chrono Trigger with their marriage was immediately followed by a scene depicting the destruction of the Kingdom of Guardia, set against the burning of Truce, the capture of the Masamune, and the slaying of the kingdom's final defender"

cross didnt kill these characters, trigger did
 

AppleKid

Member
Feb 21, 2018
2,549
Oh? I didn't realize that Chrono Trigger's plot and characters were basically a ton of setup for a trilogy that Chrono Cross basically threw out the window for the sake of "subverting expectations". Also was unaware that Chrono Cross was set mere hours after the conclusion of Chrono Trigger with these same characters yet some of their dialogue felt exceptionally out of character from the first game.

I don't like Chrono Cross, but its story is its own. Its connection to the first game doesn't undermine anything since it largely uses a different cast in a different time. Comparing it to a movie that tosses most of what it's prior entry tried to set up doesn't make sense.

Haha I really hate The Last Jedi but thankfully from the look of the new trailer it seems I may be able to ignore its existence completely. If you want a piece of media that actually knows how to subvert expectations go play Wandersong 👍
 

MMarston

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,605
DiipuSurotu why did you have to bring this madness to gaming side

On topic, though it took me a while to come around to it, I never really saw anything that controversial about Chrono Cross.
 

Gorion's Ward

Member
Apr 6, 2019
495
Israel <3
I don't like TLJ, at all, but it's not because of "what it does to classic characters". I don't think it's fair to generalize like that. Also, I don't think TLJ does lots of "bold and new" things, it still feels like a rehash for the most part.
As for CC.. I haven't played it so idk.
 

Agni Kai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,956
Fun fact: my favorite game of all time is Chrono Trigger (Bloodborne is algo quite up there, but that's another story)

I avoided Chrono Cross like the plague for 10 years because because I knew my beloved characters from the original game were not part of this one. In 2010 I gave Cross a try and I was like "this is not so bad". Then I realized that there were just too many characters in your party and didn't feel attached to any of them. I dropped it when Axl Rose joined my party I think.

I'm quite sure it's not a bad game overall, just not a decent sequel to Trigger.

Oh, and I like The Last Jedi too. It's alright.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341
The only controversy about The Last Jedi is that so many people can't parse basic stuff.

Oh? I didn't realize that Chrono Trigger's plot and characters were basically a ton of setup for a trilogy that Chrono Cross basically threw out the window for the sake of "subverting expectations". Also was unaware that Chrono Cross was set mere hours after the conclusion of Chrono Trigger with these same characters yet some of their dialogue felt exceptionally out of character from the first game.

I don't like Chrono Cross, but its story is its own. Its connection to the first game doesn't undermine anything since it largely uses a different cast in a different time. Comparing it to a movie that tosses most of what it's prior entry tried to set up doesn't make sense.

Haha I really hate The Last Jedi but thankfully from the look of the new trailer it seems I may be able to ignore its existence completely. If you want a piece of media that actually knows how to subvert expectations go play Wandersong 👍

Case in point.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,871
eh...not on board with this. Chrono Cross is an OK game but a terrible sequel to Chrono Trigger.

Chrono Cross followed up what was at the time a pretty good time travel story, but ditched the time travel aspect entirely for a cross dimensional narrative.
The original cast barely makes an appearance, and when they do it was in a throwaway scene that implies they either died or came to a bad end.

from a gameplay perspective, Chrono Trigger attempts to do the "cast of thousands" bit with a staggeringly huge party- but screws it up. There's little distinction between party members other than saying the exact same thing in a different silly accent. Compare this to how Suikoden 1 and 2 handle the same approach with larger casts- Chrono Cross' approach looks lazy and poorly thought out.

And Ye gods- trying to get the true ending without a walkthrough was a nightmare. This is not a game I look fondly on.
But the main characters are far more developed than Trigger ever managed to. Serge, Kid, Lynx, Darius, Harle, Glenn, Radius, the Viper family, the generals, etc

This is a weird hang-up, there are tons of NPCs in this world that you can recruit to your point, a lot of them have their own side stories to play that fleshes out the world. There is a ton of distinction. i don't understand using Suikoden as a point of comparison like they all play differently? They don't

And again, Cross never established that they died, and even if they did, it's a story about hopping dimensions and turning back time. The consequences of Cross goes far beyond the life and death of a few people, they can all be resurrected or saved.
 

daegan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,905
This is actually a great analogy. If CC was a similar game to CT I don't think it would be remembered or discussed now, tbh.

I get where he's coming from; in that Chrono Cross is basically a fan fiction sequel to Chrono Trigger in the same way that the Disney Star Wars Trilogy is a fan fiction sequel to the Prequel and Original Star Wars Trilogies. I don't acknowledge either as part of the actual, original stories.

I can dig that analogy.

This only works if you believe you can deem many of the original CT staff as making "fan fiction" because they made something you don't like. Cross's director, Masato Kato, was a scenario planner and writer on Trigger, doing the heavy lifting for Horii's broad strokes. Kato also served in a director's role on Radical Dreamers. It is as much his baby as any of the three individuals thought of as the "Dream Team."
 

B. Spaceman

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,296
Spain
I get where he's coming from; in that Chrono Cross is basically a fan fiction sequel to Chrono Trigger in the same way that the Disney Star Wars Trilogy is a fan fiction sequel to the Prequel and Original Star Wars Trilogies. I don't acknowledge either as part of the actual, original stories.

I can dig that analogy.

The main writer in Chrono Cross was one of the writers of Trigger, wasn't it?
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,514
If Cross had no links to Trigger it would be good though (probably, I haven't played it in ages)
TLJ would still structually be a bad film