Do you expect a response when you address thousands of people?
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Congresswoman Omar ignites new anti-Semitism controversy with comments on AIPAC
- Thread starter SaveWeyard
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Do you expect a response when you address thousands of people?
Yes it's 1989, but you can listen to what they say and actually nothing has changed in 30 years :(
I'm shocked Wolf Blitzer was involved in some debates on CNN between Israelis and Palestinians officials. That's a joke, he is in no way neutral in this.
Now you just need to figure out how to clone another 200 or so of her into other safe Democrat districts in the House and Senate.
What is the banned user count in this thread?
I respect the mods decision, but they need to be clear about what they are doing here.
I respect the mods decision, but they need to be clear about what they are doing here.
They're already defending a country that participates in ethnic cleansing and murders innocents. Being lumped together with Trump means nothing to them, and they get to take potshots at the black muslim woman too!
by saying "Despite the president", she is saying Rep. Omar did make antisemitic remarks (she did not). AOC is playing both sides which is disappointing. i can bet in ALL the other subjects of lobbying , she would take one side and stick with it but only in this case she isnt despite the fact that when you look at all the context the representative never meant or never mean and didnt dog whistle anything. She would have if the context was jews but it isnt. its AIPAC, which is a lobbying group.
Resignation is a stupid thing that stupid people would express. Now, this pound of flesh that everyone is looking for after she already backed up and took a beat on it all.
WHEN SHE WAS 100% CORRECT IN WHAT SHE WAS SAYING.
Thats why the bad faith rhetoric is strong here. They have no legitimate moral claims here. No moral high ground at all. Claims of Antisemitism is the last refuge for defenders of a rouge nation.
No, she is saying Omar "acknowledged pain, unlike the President.", she is not saying that Omar made explicit intentional anti-semitic remarks.
This isn't even a discussion that Israel is exactly the kind of 24/7 war crime ethnostate that MAGA people want and that if you are against Trump but pro Israel you have no morals. Even BRINGING UP AIPAC is too much.
Anyone actually getting upset at this is the same as any Daily Mail contributor getting paid to attack Corbyn for anti-semitism in a series of 100 articles that are mysteriously pop up around the same time.
Anyone actually getting upset at this is the same as any Daily Mail contributor getting paid to attack Corbyn for anti-semitism in a series of 100 articles that are mysteriously pop up around the same time.
I like this response better
Its good on Ilhan to be the bigger person and apologize for people that may be unfamiliar with her message and took it another way but that's it. Everything else is valid, factual criticism that we shouldn't let people handwave away. People that follow 24/7 news cycle such as those on Era knew exactly what the hell she was talking about and there's a multitude of other people that do. Enough is enough. The games have been going on for far too long
Unlike the President (comparing to POTUS words), Rep. Omar demonstrated a capacity to Ack Pain and apologize (for not being antisemitic?), use the opportunity to learn about history of antisemitism (why is she showcased in light that she doesnt know what antisemitism or tropes mean) + grow from it (again saying Rep. Omar made a mistake of using antisemitic words, she didnt) while clarifying her stance (she didnt need to clarify it was already KNOWN what she meant for those following the conversation)
Rep. Omar only apologized for people who thought she was using the Trope. I didnt agree with the apology at first but i realize now it was only for those who thought it was a trope, and she meant every tweet she sent before , which is why she hasnt deleted them and still called out AIPAC as a lobby group
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I think you're misconstruing what's currently happening in here with still being upset with Omar. her apology was great. I think we've all moved on from her comments because her apology was great and frankly her multiple apologies showed that she is an ideal ally and representative to the left. AOC too. said it before but I like her more after this incident because of how she maneuvered and just showed empathy towards another group while not shying away from what her actual message was at all. literally perfect response from her. that people in here still don't understand what happened or literally don't want to in many cases has nothing to do with her.
Everyone understand this, yet here we are, 30 pages deep, aguing on form instead of content. Tragic. Palestinians are fucked. Lets all argue about this while they continue to be ethically cleansed.
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speaking as a non-Zionist American Jew, I agree with Nikhil Singh's response 100%
if you presumptively treat any and all accusations of antisemitism as being valid and made in good faith, no real discussion on Israel is going to be possible
Why are you all always telling people that they don't understand the issue at hand?
It's crazy that people didn't understand the content behind "Benjamins". How you don't know a classic.
Ugh this site is soooo good about pointing out injustice and racism for many minorities, but if you are a Jewish or Asian American you are considered white and any claims of racism are easily dismissed. In any other case racist dogwhistles would never be tolerated and ignorance of said dogwhistles would never be considered a valid excuse to handwave them away.
I got (maybe correctly) briefly dragged last night for reacting to our congress and chirons doing a sneak attack on her AIPAC critcism last night, to the point where I was assumed to have said the opposite of what I intended. Here's a light fo day diagram of my intent.
1. I don't believe criticism of AIPAC is either antisemitic or unwarranted any more than I believe criticism of the NRA is anti Christian.
2. I believe Omar's tweet use of Benjamin was not only about the well recognized money association, but based on its association with a white American christian from pictures of money as well as the song. That I can't be sure of, but that was my first blush.
3. I believe the criticism leveled against her last night used and highlighted the idea, directly and indirectly in speech and especially headlines and chirons (see NYT last night) that the "Benjamin" pun was intentionally opr intrinsically antisemitic as an excuse to shut down any conversation by the Dem and GOP establishment without even bothering to address it.
4. I'm stunned that a perfectly valid criticism of a powerful and highly questionable lobbying group was instantly silenced and that a muslim politician was immediately thrown under a bus and dragged to the point where the conversation itself was effectively "outlawed."
5. I belive that if she'd been a jewish man (and plenty agree with her), the pun would not even have been highlighted or discussed as "in-group" the way it was and that it was a useful OUT for people refusing to deal with the financial or geopolitical issues at hand. Including the media. But starting with Congress.
1. I don't believe criticism of AIPAC is either antisemitic or unwarranted any more than I believe criticism of the NRA is anti Christian.
2. I believe Omar's tweet use of Benjamin was not only about the well recognized money association, but based on its association with a white American christian from pictures of money as well as the song. That I can't be sure of, but that was my first blush.
3. I believe the criticism leveled against her last night used and highlighted the idea, directly and indirectly in speech and especially headlines and chirons (see NYT last night) that the "Benjamin" pun was intentionally opr intrinsically antisemitic as an excuse to shut down any conversation by the Dem and GOP establishment without even bothering to address it.
4. I'm stunned that a perfectly valid criticism of a powerful and highly questionable lobbying group was instantly silenced and that a muslim politician was immediately thrown under a bus and dragged to the point where the conversation itself was effectively "outlawed."
5. I belive that if she'd been a jewish man (and plenty agree with her), the pun would not even have been highlighted or discussed as "in-group" the way it was and that it was a useful OUT for people refusing to deal with the financial or geopolitical issues at hand. Including the media. But starting with Congress.
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A lot of people assume that a. everyone has the same level of competence or knowledge in a given subject as they do (I am guilty of this sometimes) and b. if they had the same knowledge or competence they would feel the same way. Consequently because they do not feel the same way you or I do, they must not understand the issue at all. It's arrogance really as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not Jewish, but the idea that a non-Jew cannot comment on what is and what isn't anti-semitism seems strange to me. While I will never know what it is to be Jewish or black, and as a result, could never comment on how as a member of those minority groups certain actions or words make me feel, that doesn't mean I cannot recognize racism or anti-semitism. I hope I'm making sense, and I would never tell a member of those groups that they're wrong for feeling the way they do about words or actions. That is not my place. But recognizing it for myself? I don't see anything wrong with that.
And frankly, regardless of how you feel about Omar's comments, the AIPAC and Israel need to be called out for their lobbying and atrocities, the same way the United States or Russia need to be. I don't see how that is controversial or uncomfortable for people.
AOC literally makes this exact point about bad faith right wing claims of anti-semitism against Muslim people without attempting to dismiss that there are people who feel like this person but that there are also ones who feel differently and who aren't acting out in bad faith. The only difference is that AOC acknowledged this difference whlie this person simply stated their opinion.
1) Omar acknowledged that some people were legitimately upset who weren't crying wolf like McCarthy and apologized for the inadvertent hurt
2) Most people don't grow up in a hyper-multicultural melting pot that teaches them each and every thing they need to be aware of with other minority groups. This applies to anyone. I have a friend who immigrated here as an adult who didn't realize just how bad the history w/ Slavery was till they watched 12 Years a Slave. No one is omnipotent.
3) Grow from it = take what you learned and use it to modify your behavior so that you don't step on toes or tropes accidentally again
4) Make it clear it was a screw up and not deliberately hurful (after the RT, this was 100% necessary and her apology was spot on.)
The input of the Jewish community at large is necessary in these issues and is unequivocally required before any kind of resolution is reached. But at the same time we can't continue to let the people playing gatekeepers to stymie progress, be they Jewish or not.
There's no problem with AOC's statement. Omar already apologized and said that she said something hurtful, even if it was accidental, and AOC Is just following her lead while trying to keep her constituents together.
Omar said nothing wrong, factually. But the way she said it was interpreted as something hurtful by some (not all) Jewish people. She took her lumps for that and apologized while not backing down from her statement about AIPAC. AOC is following her lead.
Omar said nothing wrong, factually. But the way she said it was interpreted as something hurtful by some (not all) Jewish people. She took her lumps for that and apologized while not backing down from her statement about AIPAC. AOC is following her lead.
it would be something if she again targetted AIPAC on twitter and see how Democrats respond to her. If she wants to now make her voice heard she needs to put the pedal at full throttle and not hold back, using the right words of course
And those would be? Theres nothing - especially nothing that Omar could say - that would not be pulled through the mud in the most bad faith and organized way possible by every side of power.
that's one of the main takeaways I've learned from this thread
Yup, this was evident in the Harvard thread. Where we were told that we needed to 'take one for the team' in regards to Harvard using stereotypes in admissions
I would say especially now that this event has occurred she will not be able to give criticism without people reminding her. AOC needs to lead the charge as one of the most outspoken new Dems in the House.
i want her to restart the fight against AIPAC using words which cannot be construed in anyway by any opportunistic or concerned party. If democratic establishment thinks AIPAC criticism is nipped in the bud, they need to think again. They cannot control all progressive members who feel similarly
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Valid criticisms aren't dogwhistles.
Also as many people in this thread have stated, criticism of AIPAC isn't criticism of the entire Jewish community and anybody continuing to push that platitude is racist themselves.
Valid criticisms aren't dogwhistles.
Also as many people in this thread have stated, criticism of AIPAC isn't criticism of the entire Jewish community and anybody continuing to push that platitude is racist themselves.
100 to all of this.
Fuckit. I'm sending Omar an ODB and Nas post valentines clean up mix tape and transcripts.
Not possible. The language is secondary, even tertiary, to the unacceptable core of criticizing Israel. Make no mistake - thats what this is about. There is no language you can use to criticize Israel.
the harder the critics try to parse the simplest of unoffensive language, the more voice against those very critics will grow. Human logic will come into play at some point. Americans are not drones, they can think for themselves
There are no "right words". Any criticism of israel or aipac will be labelled antisemitism. aipac, israel and pro israel apartheid supporters/zionists should not just be criticised but comdemned. Even prefacing her messages with "apologies in advance for any offense caused as it is unintentional" would just be labelled a dogwhistle etc.
On this very site obvious israeli supporters are constantly attempting to control the narrative by either diverting away from the actual issues of the legalized corruption that is lobbying and the fact that aipac is one of the most powerful lobbies and, when that fails encouraging the clearly biased moderation to issue bans
That would have happened in the US or the UK by now if possible. In media and politics its an opinion you are not allowed to have, sanctified by the GOP and Democrats.
of course the Jewish community should be listened to, but the unfortunate political and cultural reality of even liberal Zionism (coming from that background myself) is such that, for the foreseeable future, there will always be people who levy accusations of antisemitism in bad faith, and there will always be people who subjectively experience legitimate criticism of Israel as an attack on their identities as Jews. they can't be allowed to maintain total control of the debate
there is no way to have a full and open debate about Israel without also having a full and open debate about what criticism of Israel does and doesn't constitute antisemitism, because that's where a lot of the battle lines have been drawn
She can't. She's a Muslim. BLACK. Woman. They've already got the pyre for the burning. They just haven't sent out the invites.
There are three sources of criticism in this.
Republicans whose concerns should be utterly dismissed
Cowardly , and I hate myself for using this term, Establishment Democrats who should be met with disappointment
And Jewish Folk, especially specifically those on the left who have reached out to Omar and AOC, who should be listened to and respected.
Omar and now AOC are doing the 3rd, this is positive
Republicans whose concerns should be utterly dismissed
Cowardly , and I hate myself for using this term, Establishment Democrats who should be met with disappointment
And Jewish Folk, especially specifically those on the left who have reached out to Omar and AOC, who should be listened to and respected.
Omar and now AOC are doing the 3rd, this is positive
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If anything this means we can't do that ever, in Congress or even here.
Just to recognize that if you get got for this statement, it is acknowledged.
It's shocking how little of this conversation (whether it be on news sites or on Twitter) is actually about AIPAC's influence.
That's the problem when those who aren't arguing in good faith are empowered while those who genuinely want to have a full conversation are erased
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