AOC speaking truth right here. Etcetera, will you listen when someone with credibility like her is calling you out?
Do you expect a response when you address thousands of people?
AOC speaking truth right here. Etcetera, will you listen when someone with credibility like her is calling you out?
This is tangential at best to the thread, but this '89 exchange between Wolf Blitzer and Norman Finkelstein is worth watching:
Now you just need to figure out how to clone another 200 or so of her into other safe Democrat districts in the House and Senate.
When you find yourself on the same side of the wall as Trump, you know you fucked up.
Incredibly disappointing statement from AOC. This is something the guy she ran out of Congress would have put out.
damn she's already subtweeting Era
thankfully no one who had an honest issue with what Omar said wants her to resign and, in fact, wanting an apology shows an actual desire for her to keep doing what she's doing!
hell I came away from this liking her more because of how she maneuvered through this issue
all these "but the right!" posts are really silly tbh
Thats why the bad faith rhetoric is strong here. They have no legitimate moral claims here. No moral high ground at all. Claims of Antisemitism is the last refuge for defenders of a rouge nation.They're already defending a country that participates in ethnic cleansing and murders innocents. Being lumped together with Trump means nothing to them, and they get to take potshots at the black muslim woman too!
No, she is saying Omar "acknowledged pain, unlike the President.", she is not saying that Omar made explicit intentional anti-semitic remarks.by saying "Despite the president", she is saying Rep. Omar did make antisemitic remarks (she did not). AOC is playing both sides which is disappointing. i can bet in ALL the other subjects of lobbying , she would take one side and stick with it but only in this case she isnt despite the fact that when you look at all the context the representative never meant or never mean and didnt dog whistle anything. She would have if the context was jews but it isnt. its AIPAC, which is a lobbying group.
AOC speaking truth right here. Etcetera, will you listen when someone with credibility like her is calling you out?
No, she is saying Omar "acknowledged pain, unlike the President.", she is not saying that Omar made explicit intentional anti-semitic remarks.
No, she is saying Omar "acknowledged pain, unlike the President.", she is not saying that Omar made explicit intentional anti-semitic remarks.
Unlike this President, Rep. @IlhanMN demonstrated a capacity to acknowledge pain & apologize, use the opportunity to learn abt history of antisemitism,+grow from it while clarifying her stance.
Resignation is a stupid thing that stupid people would express. Now, this pound of flesh that everyone is looking for after she already backed it up....
Everyone understand this, yet here we are, 30 pages deep, aguing on form instead of content. Tragic. Palestinians are fucked. Lets all argue about this while they continue to be ethically cleansed.This isn't even a discussion that Israel is exactly the kind of 24/7 war crime ethnostate that MAGA people want and that if you are against Trump but pro Israel you have no morals. Even BRINGING UP AIPAC is too much.
Anyone actually getting upset at this is the same as any Daily Mail contributor getting paid to attack Corbyn for anti-semitism in a series of 100 articles that are mysteriously pop up around the same time.
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I think you're misconstruing what's currently happening in here with still being upset with Omar. her apology was great. I think we've all moved on from her comments because her apology was great and frankly her multiple apologies showed that she is an ideal ally and representative to the left. AOC too. said it before but I like her more after this incident because of how she maneuvered and just showed empathy towards another group while not shying away from what her actual message was at all. literally perfect response from her. that people in here still don't understand what happened or literally don't want to in many cases has nothing to do with her.
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I like this response better
Its good on Ilhan to be the bigger person and apologize for people that may be unfamiliar with her message and took it another way but that's it. Everything else is valid, factual criticism that we shouldn't let people handwave away. People that follow 24/7 news cycle such as those on Era knew exactly what the hell she was talking about and there's a multitude of other people that do. Enough is enough. The games have been going on for far too long
Why are you all always telling people that they don't understand the issue at hand?
I like this response better
Its good on Ilhan to be the bigger person and apologize for people that may be unfamiliar with her message and took it another way but that's it. Everything else is valid, factual criticism that we shouldn't let people handwave away. People that follow 24/7 news cycle such as those on Era knew exactly what the hell she was talking about and there's a multitude of other people that do. Enough is enough.
1) Omar acknowledged that some people were legitimately upset who weren't crying wolf like McCarthy and apologized for the inadvertent hurtUnlike the President (comparing to POTUS words), Rep. Omar demonstrated a capacity to Ack Pain and apologize (for not being antisemitic?), use the opportunity to learn about history of antisemitism (why is she showcased in light that she doesnt know what antisemitism or tropes mean) + grow from it (again saying Rep. Omar made a mistake) while clarifying her stance (she didnt need to clarify it was already KNOWN what she meant for those following the conversation)
speaking as a non-Zionist American Jew, I agree with Nikhil Singh's response 100%
if you presumptively treat any and all accusations of antisemitism as being valid and made in good faith, no real discussion on Israel is going to be possible
Why are you all always telling people that they don't understand the issue at hand?
Ugh this site is soooo good about pointing out injustice and racism for many minorities, but if you are a Jewish or Asian American you are considered white and any claims of racism are easily dismissed. In any other case racist dogwhistles would never be tolerated and ignorance of said dogwhistles would never be considered a valid excuse to handwave them away.
And those would be? Theres nothing - especially nothing that Omar could say - that would not be pulled through the mud in the most bad faith and organized way possible by every side of power.
i want her to restart the fight against AIPAC using words which cannot be construed in anyway by any opportunistic or concerned party. If democratic establishment thinks AIPAC criticism is nipped in the bud, they need to think again. They cannot control all progressive members who feel similarlyAnd those would be? Theres nothing - especially nothing that Omar could say - that would not be pulled through the mud in the most bad faith and organized way possible by every side of power.
Ugh this site is soooo good about pointing out injustice and racism for many minorities, but if you are a Jewish or Asian American you are considered white and any claims of racism are easily dismissed. In any other case racist dogwhistles would never be tolerated and ignorance of said dogwhistles would never be considered a valid excuse to handwave them away.
A lot of people assume that a. everyone has the same level of competence or knowledge in a given subject as they do (I am guilty of this sometimes) and b. if they had the same knowledge or competence they would feel the same way. Consequently because they do not feel the same way you or I do, they must not understand the issue at all. It's arrogance really as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not Jewish, but the idea that a non-Jew cannot comment on what is and what isn't anti-semitism seems strange to me. While I will never know what it is to be Jewish or black, and as a result, could never comment on how as a member of those minority groups certain actions or words make me feel, that doesn't mean I cannot recognize racism or anti-semitism. I hope I'm making sense, and I would never tell a member of those groups that they're wrong for feeling the way they do about words or actions. That is not my place. But recognizing it for myself? I don't see anything wrong with that.
And frankly, regardless of how you feel about Omar's comments, the AIPAC and Israel need to be called out for their lobbying and atrocities, the same way the United States or Russia need to be. I don't see how that is controversial or uncomfortable for people.
i want her to restart the fight against AIPAC using words which cannot be construed in anyway by any opportunistic or concerned party. If democratic establishment thinks AIPAC criticism is nipped in the bud, they need to think again. They cannot control all progressive members who feel similarly
Yeah I mean Pelosi said as much in her response.Not possible. The language is secondary, even tertiary, to the unacceptable core of criticizing Israel. Make no mistake - thats what this is about. There is no language you can use to criticize Israel.
Not possible. The language is secondary, even tertiary, to the unacceptable core of criticizing Israel. Make no mistake - thats what this is about. There is no language you can use to criticize Israel.
it would be something if she again targetted AIPAC on twitter and see how Democrats respond to her. If she wants to now make her voice heard she needs to put the pedal at full throttle and not hold back, using the right words of course
the harder the critics try to parse the simplest of unoffensive language, the more voice against those very critics will grow. Human logic will come into play at some point. Americans are not drones, they can think for themselves
The input of the Jewish community at large is necessary in these issues and is unequivocally required before any kind of resolution is reached. But at the same time we can't continue to let the people playing gatekeepers to stymie progress, be they Jewish or not.
it would be something if she again targetted AIPAC on twitter and see how Democrats respond to her. If she wants to now make her voice heard she needs to put the pedal at full throttle and not hold back, using the right words of course
If anything this means we can't do that ever, in Congress or even here.I hope this stokes the fires of continued AIPAC and Israel criticism imo.
There are no "right words". Any criticism of israel or aipac will be labelled antisemitism. aipac, israel and pro israel apartheid supporters/zionists should not just be criticised but comdemned. Even prefacing her messages with "apologies in advance for any offense caused as it is unintentional" would just be labelled a dogwhistle etc.
On this very site obvious israeli supporters are constantly attempting to control the narrative by either diverting away from the actual issues of the legalized corruption that is lobbying and the fact that aipac is one of the most powerful lobbies and, when that fails encouraging the clearly biased moderation to issue bans
It's shocking how little of this conversation (whether it be on news sites or on Twitter) is actually about AIPAC's influence.
It's shocking how little of this conversation (whether it be on news sites or on Twitter) is actually about AIPAC's influence.
It's shocking how little of this conversation (whether it be on news sites or on Twitter) is actually about AIPAC's influence.