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ronaldthump

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,439
Btw people comparing bloodbourne/souls type boss fights to GOW

Those games have almost zero story and no interactivity or plot outside of boss fights so the devs don't have to do story telling, world building to the extent that GOW does, dialogue and more.

It certainly doesn't have characters like the two dwarves, world serpent or even the sort of ingame storytelling and dialogue presentnin GOW
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
Btw people comparing bloodbourne/souls type boss fights to GOW

Those games have almost zero story and no interactivity or plot outside of boss fights so the devs don't have to do story telling, world building to the extent that GOW does, dialogue and more.

It certainly doesn't have characters like the two dwarves, world serpent or even the sort of ingame storytelling and dialogue presentnin GOW
Wait, what
 

ZangBa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,040
Yeah whatever, this is like hearing Square say towns are too hard to do in HD. There should have been more bosses, it's a blemish on the game.
 

GeoGonzo

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,347
Madrid, Spain
Not saying this isn't a valid complain, since people are free to want more of whatever they enjoy, but... personally I wasn't a huge fan of any of the cinematic fights. For me, the valkyries were neat but Baldur was not. People who complain about wanting more boss fights remind me of when people mentioned wanting more boss fights in the Batman games, while a few of us wondered "but... that's the weakest part of the game".
 

TwoCoins

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,493
Houston Tx
I mean there's 3 fights with Baldur, Giant Dragon fight, Thors sons fight. And 9 optional side bosses...and those mini boss fights like Trolls and Elf king that become regular enemies that some games do.

i think there's a decent amount for this type of game on it's first outing saving the best for sequels.
The only disappointing thing about future bosses being excluded now that we know about Loki
Hela and Fenrir being children of :oki. So it will likely see Fenrir in the same vain we saw the World Serpent.[\spoiler] S
 
Last edited:
Oct 30, 2017
887
There were more than enough bosses in the game.

You had 9 Valkryies with different move sets.
2 Entirely different boss fights with Baldur.
1 Fight with a Dragon
3 Fights with Trolls, each with a different moveset. The last one in hellheim was really tough simply because of how many different moves he had.
The first Ancient Fight played out like a boss fight. It was very tough.
The travelers were very hard to fight on hard when they were purple bar enemies.

That's like 15 boss fights in a 30 hour game.


You're joking, right? You're gonna count all 9 valkyries as being bosses within a "30 hr game"? If they doubled the number of valkyries, would you then have said there's 24 bosses? Come on, that's disingenuous. I didn't run across a SINGLE valkryie in my first play through, until after I "beat" the game. For me, a boss is integrated into the main story, not a side-quest that you can optionally do later on and that has no effect or connection with the linear game.

There are 15 Lynel locations in BoTW, do we add them to the boss count? They're extremely challenging unless one is highly upgraded. At most, valkryies can be counted as 1 "boss".
 

Ahasverus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,599
Colombia
I'm just starting GoW 3 after playing IV and the difference is immediately noticeable lol I can see how old fans must be mad as all hell, they're nothing alike.

GoW 3 feels dumber though.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
It's a shame that the game peaked with the first boss fight at the beginning.

I kept expecting crazy shit like that throughout the game and ended up being dissapointed.

The dragon encounter was on par with it in my opinion, and it features the single hypest moment in the game.

Magni and Modi were good in terms of mechanics but low on spectacle.

All 3 encounters with Baldur are incredible. The way the last one ends is epic, f
rom Dad Bod and Boy going tag team on Baldur's ass to the snake taking care of Thamur's corpse
. I think all boss fights were great. I wanted more? Yes, I never have enough of good things. Would I criticize the game for having too few or not spectacular enough bosses? Not really.
 

TwoCoins

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,493
Houston Tx
You're joking, right? You're gonna count all 9 valkyries as being bosses within a "30 hr game"? If they doubled the number of valkyries, would you then have said there's 24 bosses? Come on, that's disingenuous. I didn't run across a SINGLE valkryie in my first play through, until after I "beat" the game. For me, a boss is integrated into the main story, not a side-quest that you can optionally do later on and that has no effect or connection with the linear game.

There are 15 Lynel locations in BoTW, do we add them to the boss count? They're extremely challenging unless one is highly upgraded. At most, valkryies can be counted as 1 "boss".

Some of the best SOULS/BORNE bosses are optional...but are missable if you beat the game. You would of probably missed them as many people tend to do all the optional stuff before advancing the story anyways because of fear of the PNR.
 

Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,338
Not saying this isn't a valid complain, since people are free to want more of whatever they enjoy, but... personally I wasn't a huge fan of any of the cinematic fights. For me, the valkyries were neat but Baldur was not. People who complain about wanting more boss fights remind me of when people mentioned wanting more boss fights in the Batman games, while a few of us wondered "but... that's the weakest part of the game".

First valkyrie fight was cool but the rest that followed felt recycled and ultimately I got bored by 3rd or 4th Valkyrie I think and by the time I was done with the last I knew I would never play that game again, still, they were not as bad as the trolls, where the only difference is that one wants to kill you with a fridge and another one with an oven, ugh.

Hopefully things are gonna improve in the sequel.
 

Popetita

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,957
TX|PR
I thought there wasn't enough boss fights or appearance by the Gods, but I guess they have sequel plans so I am ok. The boss fights in here were great.
 

ShiftyHermit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
421
I did want more bosses, but the ones that were there are so good. The story and the work kept me super entertained throughout so the lack of bosses didn't become a big deal for me. Loved everything about Baldur.
 

Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
New York City
The fights that are there are generally really good mechanically; it's the reuse of boss types that was a bit disappointing (especially visually). With a little more variety, I'd have no complaints.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
You're joking, right? You're gonna count all 9 valkyries as being bosses within a "30 hr game"? If they doubled the number of valkyries, would you then have said there's 24 bosses? Come on, that's disingenuous. I didn't run across a SINGLE valkryie in my first play through, until after I "beat" the game. For me, a boss is integrated into the main story, not a side-quest that you can optionally do later on and that has no effect or connection with the linear game.

There are 15 Lynel locations in BoTW, do we add them to the boss count? They're extremely challenging unless one is highly upgraded. At most, valkryies can be counted as 1 "boss".

Lynels are similar to me to Valkyries in that sense. They're still bosses.

And not to spoil things, but they do have connections with the main game, which is part of the reward of beating them. I think one of them should have been on the main path though, as an "easier" one.
 

H.Cornerstone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,732
"Because we got about 15 to 20 people on each boss, and those bosses go anywhere from a year to two each"
Erm what? Sorry, but that would be a ridiculous statement if the bosses in this game were any good. But given the fact the few bosses you have outside sigrun have an extremely limited moveset.....


Can't tell if serious, but the valkyrie fights just have different combinations of sigruns moves.... they are boring.
Ahhh. so you just proved my point. Each valkyrie fight has an aspect of Sigrun to prepare you for that fight.
 

LV-426

Member
Oct 29, 2017
594
I'm perfectly fine with what was in the game. The end boss fight of the game I was screaming "this is how boss fights are done!" Because it was so fucking well done. The fights that were there were just amazing.
 

Lokoline

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,008
Brazil
I wanted more bosses but the ones that were there and everything else was so good that it wasn't a big deal for me.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I also think we should dispel the notion that because they wanted to go with a more personal story that that meant there couldn't have been more boss fights.

Like first of all you had a huge dbz like boss fight in the first 10 minutes of the game where two gods threw eachother through parts of a mountain and used trees to smash eachother around.

But additionally we didn't need every boss encounter to play out this way. We didn't need to have every boss be a significant god or huge monster. They just needed to be mechanically interesting and not completely derivitive.

I find it easier to believe it takes then 20 years to give us an acceptable number of bosses on par with the greatest in the genre than I do that they just conflicted with the story they were trying to tell.
 

Vroadstar

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
253
First valkyrie fight was cool but the rest that followed felt recycled and ultimately I got bored by 3rd or 4th Valkyrie I think and by the time I was done with the last I knew I would never play that game again, still, they were not as bad as the trolls, where the only difference is that one wants to kill you with a fridge and another one with an oven, ugh.

Hopefully things are gonna improve in the sequel.
Huh? Most of the valkyrie fights have different attack patterns and how can you tell which one is the first fight when you can tackle them any order you like?
 

Darkpyro2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
551
Mid game spoiler as I don't know how to do spoiler tag.

The dragon fight was cool until you realized it had a simple mechanic that you needed to do again and again. The "appeal" wore off fast.

As well as way too many of those ancient and troll fights. It was a bit obnoxious at a point.

Everything else was ace though.
You tag it with [spoiler*] MESSAGE HERE [\spoiler*] but without the stars.

Like this
 

Deleted member 17403

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,664
Great game, not so great boss fights though; they were a definite step down from what was in GoW3. A minor blemish on an otherwise immaculate game. I have great expectations for the next game.
 

Riderz1337

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Especially when GoW boss fights are typical Souls-boss type arena battles where 50% of it is replaced by QTE's and cutscenes that wholly take control away from the player.

The takeaway I'm getting here is that he also wants more bosses in the sequels, which will somehow not take 20 years to make.
50%? What game did you play, because it clearly wasn't God of War.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
You're joking, right? You're gonna count all 9 valkyries as being bosses within a "30 hr game"? If they doubled the number of valkyries, would you then have said there's 24 bosses? Come on, that's disingenuous. I didn't run across a SINGLE valkryie in my first play through, until after I "beat" the game. For me, a boss is integrated into the main story, not a side-quest that you can optionally do later on and that has no effect or connection with the linear game.

There are 15 Lynel locations in BoTW, do we add them to the boss count? They're extremely challenging unless one is highly upgraded. At most, valkryies can be counted as 1 "boss".
There are multiple souls bosses that are optional. Both boss fights I mentioned in my post, Cleric Beast in Bloodborne and Nameless King in Souls, are optional. Should we not count them?

It's not my fault you didnt run into a single valkryie in your playthrough. You get the ability to open those doors half way through the game. there is one literally right outside the place where you get the ability to open those hidden doors.

If you read my entire post, I agreed that they shouldnt have put in 9 of those and replaced some of them with other mini bosses like the ogre, travelers and wearwolves.
 

R.T Straker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
Heh.

There's very few bosses indeed and all of them except one are pretty shit. Clearly not the team's main focus.
 

Mondy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,456
The game does feel very light on bosses when you consider the fact that you
fight Baldur multiple times, including the final fight.
People are just used to half the game being these amazing cinematic boss fights like GOW3 when this GOW was never meant to be that way inclined.
 

MetatronM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,851
Aside from maybe going to the troll well one too many times, I otherwise didn't have any issues with the bosses or their somewhat limited implementation at all. The encounters that were there all felt very natural, and there were plenty of "boss-like" challenges to keep me entertained even if they weren't actual bosses.
 

nycgamer4ever

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
861
"What about optional bosses?"

"Just copy and paste the same Valkyrie 8 times"

"Genius!"

What is this supposed to mean? You do know what Valkyries are and what they look like in Norse Mythology right? They don't look very different from each other. In fact they are all females. Not sure what you expected. The ones in the game also have different move set so playing them are totally different experiences.
 

Ghost305

Banned
Jan 6, 2018
775
Bosses are my favorite thing about action games, so I'm glad I didn't pick this up. Sounds like a talent and/or process problem more than anything.
Maybe. I remember the GoW3 devs saying the titan "bosses" took about a year each as well.

Seems like a lot of wasted effort on a scripted sequence that doesn't test mechanics in many unique ways.

But uh, looks nice, I guess?
 

Fdkn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
718
Spain
You're joking, right? You're gonna count all 9 valkyries as being bosses within a "30 hr game"? If they doubled the number of valkyries, would you then have said there's 24 bosses? Come on, that's disingenuous. I didn't run across a SINGLE valkryie in my first play through, until after I "beat" the game. For me, a boss is integrated into the main story, not a side-quest that you can optionally do later on and that has no effect or connection with the linear game.

There are 15 Lynel locations in BoTW, do we add them to the boss count? They're extremely challenging unless one is highly upgraded. At most, valkryies can be counted as 1 "boss".


I killed every valkyrie during the story progression, from the point you get the means to open the ice doors, whose importance was hinted in the very first area of the game.

They are all optional, but not hidden and to miss them is either a deliberate option or a clear lack of interest on exploring anything outside the main objective pointer on the compass.

Also, they are all similar because they get progressively more challenging and introduce new moves in preparation for the final encounter with the queen, a boss that has no reason to be shy comparing itself with the best soulsbourne bosses.

---

Also some people are really missinterpreting the one year per boss comment and comparing with other games, because he is not obviously talking about the sons of thor, trolls, valkyries or dark elf there, but the crazy setpieces with Baldur and I guess the Dragon too.
 

semiconscious

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,140
There were more than enough bosses in the game.

You had 9 Valkryies with different move sets.
2 Entirely different boss fights with Baldur.
1 Fight with a Dragon
3 Fights with Trolls, each with a different moveset. The last one in hellheim was really tough simply because of how many different moves he had.
The first Ancient Fight played out like a boss fight. It was very tough.
The travelers were very hard to fight on hard when they were purple bar enemies.

That's like 15 boss fights in a 30 hour game...

this's one of them 'argument that's also it's own perfect counter-argument' type argument :) ...
 

cubistic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,877
I would've traded the last third of the game for 2 more unique bosses. The problem is that the camera is so closed in that you wouldn't be able to have any large-scale fights. The dragon fight was misleading because you essentially just stab his legs.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,328
The ones that are in there are some of my favorite boss fights of all time, especially the last one in the game. I'm not sweating the fact that there weren't that many. Good opportunity for improvement in the sequel!
Which ones though? I can really only think of the
Baldur
fight that was pretty much copy/pasted a few times. I didn't think that was impressive at all from a gameplay standpoint, it was just cutscenes. Then there's the trolls which are all pretty much the same fight anyway. For a series so well known for its boss-fights (apparantly. I've only played this and GoW1). Is it the Valkyries? I only fought one of those so I can't say much about them.
 

Gargantua

Banned
May 8, 2018
228
I fully understand Cory's reasons.
That said, somehow Bosses are the bread and butter of gaming. Always miss them when they lack.
That said, again, better a lacking boss than a bad-designed one, and western devs still have a long way to go for exciting boss battles
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,949
Ahhh. so you just proved my point. Each valkyrie fight has an aspect of Sigrun to prepare you for that fight.
"Each Valkyrie battle is completely different" if thats your point its not true at all. They all use the a subset of moves with some slight differences, but many of them are barely different from each other. And as i said in OT1, the fights do teach you, but they are boring.

GwyndolinCinder said:
Finally got a no damage run on the ValQ @ GMGOW difficulty.
https://youtu.be/-E83309C5Ko

This boss fight is really incredible
  • A shit ton of moves
  • Combos which end with mixups that require specific reactions from the player
  • Valhallaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa attacks require almost perfect timing
  • Even in air stance the boss has a ton of moves which require specific reactions: Dodge, block, look away, throw the axe
  • Some near instant unblockables, which can be dodged preemptively by short hopping before they happen. ( She only does them as a follow up to other moves)
  • Fire poop for another layer of positioning
And all of this is taught you through a series of trials, whilst some of them i found to be rather boring by themselves, they are well worth it considering this epic payoff. This boss would be incredibly frustrating if you had to learn each move during this fight, but being taught them through a series of fights means you just need to learn how to punish her when all these moves are in existence simultaneously.

Would not have expected the best boss fight this console generation to come from this studio. I only have one platinum (BB) but i think this will be my second, really not ready to let this game go.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,351
I'd rather have more cool bosses like GOW has had in the past, than this recycled stuff. I honestly can only count the dragon as the one boss fight that's not Baldur. The others ar just orcs or regular soldier-like creatures.

Maybe the first dark elf as well, which is a bs enemy by the way with the blinding shit he does.

But every time I saw a troll/orc it was "here we go, do the flippity floppity thing and then smash its head with the rock, again, ok"

Super underwhelming boss selection for me. Would be cool if they don't devote so much time to the movie side of things and add a few more cool bosses next time around. Oh, and less climbing and rowing.
 

Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,663
50%? What game did you play, because it clearly wasn't God of War.

Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif