Cristiano is a goat
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Gotta say it's Messi. I mean who the hell scores goals like this? In the CL semi-final mind you
He's scored so many great goals in HUGE games.
That final still haunts me. If only Conte managed to score.
Seriously, this competition for Juventus is cursed. Managed to lose the finals of 97 and 98 despite being the best team, lost the final in 2003 and the two in 2015 and 2017.
Messi is great and would be considered a very strong asset to every team even without his goals. Can't say the same for Ronaldo. He is the best at what he does.... But Messi can bring more to the table if needed.
If I were to start a new club and had to choose a player to build a team around I def. would choose Messi instead of Ronaldo.
If I were to start a new club and had to choose a player to build a team around I def. would choose Messi instead of Ronaldo.
I don't value winning/trophies as much as individual performance, but I still give Ronaldo the slight edge over Messi. He's just been so great for so long while Messi's case has slightly diminished over time.
Ronaldo is in a great team at the moment and like Messi earlier this decade, he's winning trophies because of that. and while he had nothing to do with that Portugal win in the final, there is no doubt that they made it to that final because of him.
I am a big Ronaldo fan, but its painfully obvious that Messi is simply more skilled. probably because he's shorter and can pull some crazy runs, but Ronaldo has to rely on pure speed and power which means he cant pull off those zigzag runs like messi more often.
Messi deserves a few more international trophies but his national team just isnt as good as his team in Barcelona.
I am a big Ronaldo fan, but its painfully obvious that Messi is simply more skilled. probably because he's shorter and can pull some crazy runs, but Ronaldo has to rely on pure speed and power which means he cant pull off those zigzag runs like messi more often.
Messi deserves a few more international trophies but his national team just isnt as good as his team in Barcelona.
Why oh please? He was phenomenal for Germany and Bayern. His scoring stats are comperable to Messi or Ronaldo. He performed on the biggest stage over and over again. He happened to play at a time when Cruyff and Beckenbauer dominated the Ballon d'Or but that is no slight to his skill. The man had a nose for goal.
Sure, and obviously that makes him an all time great. Not the GOAT though.
Sure but since I don't think Ronnie or Messi are the greatest ever he is in the conversation with them.
Ronaldo is the 2nd-GOAT, but Messi is an alien. Ronaldo transitioned from creative winger to elite goalscoring winger to pure goalscorer as his foot speed declined while maintaining out-of-this-world scoring rates basically for a decade. His career is without precedent.
But Messi has better goalscoring rates, better assist rates, is more efficient with his shots and passes, is the best progressive dribbler of all time, is a better outlet in possession (where his ability to receive the ball in tight spaces, which Ronaldo has never been great at, gives his team instant transitions from defense into attack), and at his physical peak also contributed defensively within Barcelona's press. Peak Messi was the best attacking midfielder in the world and the best striker in the world at the same time. His combination of acceleration and close control shouldn't be possible.
But Messi has better goalscoring rates, better assist rates, is more efficient with his shots and passes, is the best progressive dribbler of all time, is a better outlet in possession (where his ability to receive the ball in tight spaces, which Ronaldo has never been great at, gives his team instant transitions from defense into attack), and at his physical peak also contributed defensively within Barcelona's press. Peak Messi was the best attacking midfielder in the world and the best striker in the world at the same time. His combination of acceleration and close control shouldn't be possible.
I mean, I think Peak Messi is probably better than Peak Ronaldo, but Ronaldo is just going to have a more complete career at the end of the day I think.
If we get them in the semis, I think over two legs probably.
Wouldn't like to bet on a final between them though.
Statistics do not back this sentiment up. Messi is carrying Barça to another league title this year.
To be fair to your statistics, gonna be hard for Messi to have a more complete career with no trophies for Argentina.
You gotta adjust for European Cup vs UCL / 16 team WC vs 32 Team WC etc.
Müller was the GOAT when you use goals per game, trophies and all other metrics.
What Müller did between 1970 and 1976 is beyond anything Messi and CR7 have ever done.
"Messi is carrying Barca" is not really a statistic. It's just another meaningless sentiment. Which is sort of what all player vs player debates are at the end of the day (especially when both are undeniable GOAT contenders).
Better international play (yeah I know it's a weird thing to count, but IMO when both players are insanely great and very close, it's that type of thing that gives an edge) and longevity are two small things that I'll count in Ronaldo's favor. Although it's hard to tell right now for sure, because if Ronaldo's athleticism slips, IMO he's less equipped to handle it than Messi is. I could see Messi having a better 30s than Ronaldo, for instance.
I almost view it more like LeBron vs MJ if they both played at the same time.
Not even close. Other players have won NFL MVP during the Brady/Manning era. Nobody has won the "Ballon Dor" (soccer MVP) besides CR7 or Messi since 2008(iirc).
Their rivalry is more like Montana vs Brady if both were playing in the same in the same era and one was playing for Dallas while the other was playing for the Steelers.
Real Madrid had to drag the "goat" along for months before he got hot. And that's every season.
Ronaldo has a EC thanks to Eder as he left the game after the 24th minute. His major international tournament stats are comperable to Messi's. So I am not sure how this single game is the decider between the two.
The international play isn't as cut-and-dry but I think Messi, though he lacks the major trophy, has been far better game-in and game-out than Ronaldo. Even peak Ronaldo disappeared for entire games with Portugal in a way that peak Messi basically never did with Argentina.
e.g. Messi gets criticized for his 2010 WC, but if you re-watch those games he was the best player on the pitch by miles in every game despite getting triple teams. And that with the most dysfunctional team surroundings possible.
e.g. Messi gets criticized for his 2010 WC, but if you re-watch those games he was the best player on the pitch by miles in every game despite getting triple teams. And that with the most dysfunctional team surroundings possible.
I do agree that Messi is unfairly dragged for shit like that WC. It's basically Ronaldo superfans wanting to make memes out of it and ignoring how great Messi was.
Yeah, not sure how anyone who watches La Liga each week can come out with the opinion that Messi didn't completely carry Barça to the title again this year. Suarez was god awful until around December, & Dembélé was injured.
That whole attack was basically Messi, with supporting roles from Paulinho & owngoals.
Measuring players' all-time value by international trophies is pretty pointless. There are so many fantastic players that would lose out on the running to be a top all-time player because they were unfortunate in their international careers. You could be better than Messi or Ronaldo but if you're born in a country where your compatriots don't match your quality you'll never win anything. Argentina have been a pretty poorly managed nation during Messi's career. Portugal won a trophy against all odds and Ronaldo wasn't on the field.
Obviously, winning international titles is a great achievement but not doing it is not something I'd hold against any player. Steven Gerrard won nothing with England and never won a League title but no one would ever doubt that he was one of greatest midfielders England has ever produced.
It's not really a meaningless sentiment when it's clearly backed up by stats and the simple eye test with Barça games.
until messi wins something with argentina he is a no one
4 Goats of their era, Pele, Matadona, Zidane, Cristiano all won for their country, while messi quit on his.
4 Goats of their era, Pele, Matadona, Zidane, Cristiano all won for their country, while messi quit on his.
Stick those 70's and 80's players in a match now and they'd be getting subbed off 20 minutes in as they'd be shattered, unable to keep up with modern day players.
I'd truly love to see one of them never mentioned:
dat Barca DNA
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They would just need a couple of months for the PED's to kick in
What a bunch of bullshit? The greats would still be great today. Are you implying that RVN or Inzaghi were better players than Muller or Van Basten? Look at Maldini who played against several of the 80s stars and still bossed many of the greats today in the late 00s, or Pirlo running the midfield while barely moving.
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