Reposting this for a new page, since it's easily the best part of the video.
Here's the time stamp for the part on the game's morals.
Reposting this for a new page, since it's easily the best part of the video.
Here's the time stamp for the part on the game's morals.
I mean, I'd argue the gameplay is one of the best parts about P5. I certainly wouldn't have finished the game if the battle system wasn't as well-rounded as it was. The core issues with P5 100% have to do with its story and characterization IMO.Let's be real, the gameplay is not very good and is very much carried by everything else
It's probably the best out of P3/4/5 (which isn't saying much), but when you compare it to something like FFX (a comparison the guy actually makes in the video which I am in the process of watching), it's really pretty simple and shallow. I think the best thing about Persona's RPG gameplay is the Persona fusing aspect but it's unfortunate that it's only limited to the main character. You can't really build your team to handle encounters in your own unique way like you can in other RPGs.I mean, I'd argue the gameplay is one of the best parts about P5. I certainly wouldn't have finished the game if the battle system wasn't as well-rounded as it was. The core issues with P5 100% have to do with its story and characterization IMO.
Translation errors are legitimate problems, y'know. And I wholeheartedly agree with the "honorifics" thing. Holy shit, it's annoying.I started listening, and honestly some of this is some petty shit. We're complaining about them using "yakisoba pan" or "kumade", are we? Since when is persona games using actual japanese cultural words in the english dialogue new or bad? The game has enough actual errors in the writing (and this 5 hour video with a 1 minute long title card for each section is long enough) to not need to pad it out with this.
I think the biggest advantage in terms of gameplay that SMT games have over Persona is their customizability; Your entire TEAM is completely up to you, and their movesets are your choice as well.It's probably the best out of P3/4/5 (which isn't saying much), but when you compare it to something like FFX (a comparison the guy actually makes in the video which I am in the process of watching), it's really pretty simple and shallow. I think the best thing about Persona's RPG gameplay is the Persona fusing aspect but it's unfortunate that it's only limited to the main character. You can't really build your team to handle encounters in your own unique way like you can in other RPGs.
I know translation errors are legitimate problems, I just don't think all of the things he was listing in that section were errors, as much as a style choice. Choosing to not rename japanese things of cultural note with "fried noodle sandwich" or "lucky broom" or whatever. "Yakisoba pan" is the name of a sandwich, whereas "bread" and "bread with jam" are more generic, so I can see why they would translate the pan to bread in two out of the three. Same with "aojiru" not being turned into "green juice" when aojiru is a specific green juice drink to japan that has history. Not over translating Japanese cultural things, and leaning into "this is japan" is part of persona's whole deal since 3.Translation errors are legitimate problems, y'know. And I wholeheartedly agree with the "honorifics" thing. Holy shit, it's annoying.
The annoying thing is that, as flawed as p3 and 4 were, 3's flaws are more understandable in the context of p3 taking things in a new direction, and 4 does an admirable job with addressing some flaws in a short turnaround after 3.It's probably the best out of P3/4/5 (which isn't saying much)
A lot of series with passionate fanbases are like this. Final Fantasy, Zelda, Mario, Halo. Doesn't matter really. A lot of times it's even people who like the game, just not as much as previous entries in the series. Doesn't have anything to do with being offended.Not directly related to this video but I find it interesting seeing the same avatars still attacking this game over 2 years later, I don't know what it is about it that offends certain people so badly
but they disagree with the "thesis" so their opinions are informed on the subject matter of the video.People on this forum barely ever read the full OP, let alone going to listen to a 5 hour video.
A little note about how to work Youtube algorithms5 hr analysis on Persona 5? Someone has too much time on their hands
You know that "longer videos" in this case is for videos in the 15-minutes range right? It doesn't make any business sense by any metrics to make a 5 hour videoA little note about how to work Youtube algorithms
It is mind numbing to me how much Era plays into so many content creators
This for me.
The repetitive dialogue was one of the bigger problems I noticed while playing. I'd honestly argue it's borderline amateur and was in desperate need of some editing.The criticism about Morgana just being a way for devs to dump information on you rather than an actual character and his whole shitty fight with Ryuji rings so true as well. Same goes for Makoto and other members of the team pointing out the obvious and acting like they are providing valuable new information which just acts to make the dialogues feel needlessly repetitive and add to the game's overall length.
What makes that fight even worse is how inconsistent Morgana's criticism of the team is compared to what's actually happening, which is something that this video points out as well. The team was actually considering going after Haru's dad next but for some reason Morgana thinks they are not gonna do it and decides to leave the team and go about this alone.The repetitive dialogue was one of the bigger problems I noticed while playing. I'd honestly argue it's borderline amateur and was in desperate need of some editing.
Kind of agree with Morgana as well. I don't necessarily think he serves as more of an exposition dump than a character, but his "fight" with Ryuji was really stupid, not compelling drama in the slightest and made me dislike both characters while it was going on.
The repetitive dialogue was one of the bigger problems I noticed while playing. I'd honestly argue it's borderline amateur and was in desperate need of some editing.
Kind of agree with Morgana as well. I don't necessarily think he serves as more of an exposition dump than a character, but his "fight" with Ryuji was really stupid, not compelling drama in the slightest and made me dislike both characters while it was going on.
Yeah, I don't think Persona 5 could answer the question of what to do against a hopeless tide of social helplessness but Change Your Heart ended up feeling like a cop out. The themes of P5 were too ambitious.Hmm.... yeah. I agree. Thematically it could have been a HUGE hitter when it brings up abuse, corruption, greed, etc. But it pussyfoots around a lot of that and its dialogue comes of as way less impactful.
Wait, we're holding up FFX as a beacon of complexity now? Wtf?It's probably the best out of P3/4/5 (which isn't saying much), but when you compare it to something like FFX (a comparison the guy actually makes in the video which I am in the process of watching), it's really pretty simple and shallow. I think the best thing about Persona's RPG gameplay is the Persona fusing aspect but it's unfortunate that it's only limited to the main character. You can't really build your team to handle encounters in your own unique way like you can in other RPGs.
There is a lot the video points to. It's been a while that I palyed it so I forgot about a lot of stuff. Like the ex scholar of Madarame that points them to his wrongdoings in Mementos but then they completely forget about him and have Yusuke show up in a really contrived way to pick up the trail again.I know Persona 5 is really long, maybe too long for its own good. But I honestly enjoy my time with it and if you give me task to cut off some content to make it shorter, I honestly don't know which stuff to cut. The game structure is very episodic where each dungeon focus on a party member. And I like all the party member enough that I don't want to cut any of them. Heck, I even want more stuff added to them, more character interaction etc, which is why I can't wait for Royal.
That's the thing I mentioned in my P4 vs P5 thread I wasn't able to word properly. In P4 you have people struggling with themselves and their social links are part of their arc to self acceptance. The whole point is that they grow as characters, it's even the theme of the game.I watched it. Actually has a lot of good points on the various shortcomings of Persona 5, speaking as someone who enjoyed the game. The biggest,recurring issue pointed out is the use of mementos as a way to solve people's issues including confidants and writing issues including very sloppy translation work, and some of the dungeons being not very fun to play through.
It really bums me out everytime I see a comments section of "too long" or "that's longer than the movie/game!" or other responses to deep dive and critical critique. Not everything can be 10 minute video surface level hot takes that don't delve into why or have any context provided :/ The death of longform media makes me sad.
Well its combat is better than all the Persona games. It's just something I've played and is referenced in the video so sue me lolWait, we're holding up FFX as a beacon of complexity now? Wtf?
FFX is quite basic in combat but it definitely did one thing right, that is not consuming a turn when switching party members in/out. It feels so punishing and deterring to actually want to switch party members and expand your options in combat when a turn is lost.Well its combat is better than all the Persona games. It's just something I've played and is referenced in the video so sue me lol
Both Ann and Ryuji are underwhelming. Their confidants were all over the place and their story involvement as soon as Kamoshida part is over is just shallow at best. In fact, Yusuke is not doing a whole lot too as he mainly just tags along, but at least his confidants were good. Morgana is Morgana. Futaba is decent. So a lot of focus went to Joker and Makoto. I'd like Royal to do justice to the other characters and give them more story relevance and hopefully better written confidants.There is a lot the video points to. It's been a while that I palyed it so I forgot about a lot of stuff. Like the ex scholar of Madarame that points them to his wrongdoings in Mementos but then they completely forget about him and have Yusuke show up in a really contrived way to pick up the trail again.
Or when Akechi and Shido talk for over 5 minutes about their plans like morons just for expositions sake. Or when doors in Okumura's palace take 17 seconds to open.
So often dialogue is just repeated in text form later on multiple times because the game assumes you have the attention span of a goldfish.
Ann is a really bad character both in her Confidant and in later stages of the game. I wouldn't want them to cut her, just rewrite her character arc from the point on where Kamoshida is done.
Same with some scenarios like the Yakuza guy and Makoto's dungeon. I mentioned this in a thread of mine a few weeks ago but the video brings it up in a good way. We see this guy in person once. The stakes are there because he is threatening the crew, but he is so far below Kamoshida as a villain it's not even funny.
They can trim down the original game by a lot and I wouldn't mind. Looking forward to Royal as well.
See, I thought so too, but the video reminded me of a lot of things I forgot. I realize you mostly speak in terms of relevance to the story, but Morgana is really mostly used to get the plot moving, often with things we never get explained, like why he can move freely in and out of the metaverse or his dumb beef with the crew later on. Futaba is the one where I never realized how much of a walking nerd trope she is. When the video asks what she even wants to learn from her generation that she doesn't already know I was really hard pressed to think of anything. Also the way she reacts when getting rejected makes no sense whatsoever.Both Ann and Ryuji are underwhelming. Their confidants were all over the place and their story involvement as soon as Kamoshida part is over is just shallow at best. In fact, Yusuke is not doing a whole lot too as he mainly just tags along, but at least his confidants were good. Morgana is Morgana. Futaba is decent. So a lot of focus went to Joker and Makoto. I'd like Royal to do justice to the other characters and give them more story relevance and hopefully better written confidants.
Nah. Persona 4's characters were more interesting (both the main crew and S-links), the dungeons were over quicker and the overall story was paced way, way better. There's obviously some things they improve on, like Confidants having impact on gameplay, and the overall presentation of course. But otherwise, eh.I feel P5 is easily the best game in the mainline series.
It's an overwhelmingly mediocre title itself, but at least it isn't a chore to actually play. And yes, it is about 40 hours too long.