Daniel Ahmad (ZhugeEX): Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth is underperforming sales wise. Selling about half of what Remake sold in the same timeframe

[Rahkeesh]

I don't want to answer yet. I would like to see what they're going to do with the rumored FFIX remake and then it will be easier to understand how it could've been handled differently.

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This is a strange idea but, I wonder if for FF7 remake, they had targeted something closer to the PS1 pre-rendered backgrounds and FMV graphics as just the realtime graphics. A level of fidelity that would be more reasonable to produce the entire world of FF7 in one modern game, a look that was more nostalgic while being a step up from the lego people and low-res battle textures, and something that could even run on the Switch, a far more relevant JRPG platform, especially in Japan.

Alas Advent Children alone probably ruined this idea, which the current remake project aspires to outdo.

 

[Wrench]

Contrasting opinion:

The discussion in this thread has been quite interesting to read as it overlaps with a lot of the wider industry changes of a mature games market with a known ceiling/cap, changing value propositions of exclusivity, and differences in demographics. Maybe it is more interesting to me since I don't really care about Final Fantasy so not as emotionally invested in its fortunes. Has been fun following along; a lot of wise insights. And sure, a nice dose of malarkey too.

The least interesting parts are the "How is this 40 pages!" or "Glad I put this thread on Ignore!" The latter comment spread across other threads.

 

[FrostweaveBandage]

This is a strange idea but, I wonder if for FF7 remake, they had targeted something closer to the PS1 pre-rendered backgrounds and FMV graphics as just the realtime graphics. A level of fidelity that would be more reasonable to produce the entire world of FF7 in one modern game, a look that was more nostalgic while being a step up from the lego people and low-res battle textures, and something that could even run on the Switch, a far more relevant JRPG platform, especially in Japan.

Alas Advent Children alone probably ruined this idea, which the current remake project aspires to outdo.

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SMRPG is the prime example of what you're talking about. 3.14M copies at last count, which means it's already beaten by most of the major Playstation-first JRPGs.

Contrasting opinion:

The discussion in this thread has been quite interesting to read as it overlaps with a lot of the wider industry changes of a mature games market with a known ceiling/cap, changing value propositions of exclusivity, and differences in demographics. Maybe it is more interesting to me since I don't really care about Final Fantasy so not as emotionally invested in its fortunes. Has been fun following along; a lot of wise insights. And sure, a nice dose of malarkey too.

The least interesting parts are the "How is this 40 pages!" or "Glad I put this thread on Ignore!" The latter comment spread across other threads.

Click to shrink...

I agree wholeheartedly that some of this is due to a changing industry and habits of gamers. I don't know how many times we have to see news about the dominance of a select few live-service, get-in-get-out games to then sit around and wonder why a long narrative JRPG can't reel in players. Rebirth itself is already very long in gameplay and has dozens of hours of cutscenes. Great for us old school players but not so great for the younger crowd.

 

[Son of Sparda]

I agree wholeheartedly that some of this is due to a changing industry and habits of gamers. I don't know how many times we have to see news about the dominance of a select few live-service, get-in-get-out games to then sit around and wonder why a long narrative JRPG can't reel in players. Rebirth itself is already very long in gameplay and has dozens of hours of cutscenes. Great for us old school players but not so great for the younger crowd.

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To be fair, Genshin and Star Rail are like the biggest live service JRPGs out there and they have way more story and cutscenes than Rebirth. I don't think long narratives and cutscenes are necessarily the thing holding FF back.

 

[Lumination]

Contrasting opinion:

The discussion in this thread has been quite interesting to read as it overlaps with a lot of the wider industry changes of a mature games market with a known ceiling/cap, changing value propositions of exclusivity, and differences in demographics. Maybe it is more interesting to me since I don't really care about Final Fantasy so not as emotionally invested in its fortunes. Has been fun following along; a lot of wise insights. And sure, a nice dose of malarkey too.

The least interesting parts are the "How is this 40 pages!" or "Glad I put this thread on Ignore!" The latter comment spread across other threads.

Click to shrink...

+1 this has been a good thread for the most part.

 

[Dreamboum]

Forgive my ignorance and feel free to ignore. Can someone break down for me why this thread is 46 pages? Is it that big of a deal? What am I missing?
Is it a general commentary on the health of the industry?

Most of the replies on the first page seemed reasonable responses and addressed the issue...

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this deserves a lore page but it's a sequel to the FF16 sales thread where a lot put their baskets in FF16 failing commercially.
It wasn't expected that Rebirth would underperform,, especially not against FF16. And this forum had many members egging on the previous mainline game (FF16) released 9 months prior and it turns out it sold better, so there's a bit of a 9/11 situation for the fandom because it doesn't fit any pre-established narrative of "real FF" triumphing over the "fake FF", and we had multiple threads about how "word of mouth" and "critical reception" will carry Rebirth upwards, which so far it didn't.

This is coming from the coattails of the latest FF before that having articles like this

So the dissonance is in full force lately. That the one that was written as a failure before it even came out ended up having a better commercial result despite being written off as being a disgrace to the franchise and its identity.

There's also the dimension of Rebirth being bigger and better and yet not managing to escape the expected sequel drop-off unlike Spiderman 2 and God of War Ragnarok. Basically the JRPG sells like a JRPG, and that's the issue.

 

[Holundrian]

Part of the discussion is also that FF as an IP has seen higher heights previously and with so many other IPs on the market growing in general naturally people wonder for fun what should Square do to also get a bit of that growth for themselves. I think most people as of now looking at the Square catalogue would still probably lean towards making a bet that centers on the FF IP vs abandoning all their built up expertise and chasing the golden goose with something new.

Don't think anyone has much confidence in these more dart at the wall bets like foamstar that Square has been making or the whole NFT saga.

 

[Vareon]

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Uh did you mean to quote my (half joking) post about Xenoblade? If so I don't entirely agree but it makes sense lol.

 

[MidasTouch]

this deserves a lore page but it's a sequel to the FF16 sales thread where a lot put their baskets in FF16 failing commercially.
It wasn't expected that Rebirth would underperform,, especially not against FF16. And this forum had many members egging on the previous mainline game (FF16) released 9 months prior and it turns out it sold better, so there's a bit of a 9/11 situation for the fandom because it doesn't fit any pre-established narrative of "real FF" triumphing over the "fake FF", and we had multiple threads about how "word of mouth" and "critical reception" will carry Rebirth upwards, which so far it didn't.

This is coming from the coattails of the latest FF before that having articles like this

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If that's what's this website's readers think, nuke the website.

 

[Vault]

If that's what's passing for games journalism these days, then more people need to be fired.

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that wasn't written by a journalist

 

[reksveks]

If that's what's passing for games journalism these days, then more people need to be fired.

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You not come across the readers features articles on metro before? You are blessed with your ignorance

 

[CottonWolf]

Are really doing GotY locked in April again? Have we learned nothing from literally any other year?

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This isn't going to be it. It'll only be coming out in EA this year, a lot of people won't even touch it till 1.0.

 

[MidasTouch]

You not come across the readers features articles on metro before? You are blessed with your ignorance

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I've never even read the website before, and I wish I had not known this kind of tripe was getting posted by their readers.

 

[reksveks]

I've never even read the website before, and I wish I had not known this kind of tripe was getting posted by their readers.

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It's a truly terrible section of their site and the site itself is mundane in general. They definitely pick the wildest and dumbest takes to post.

 

[Mephissto]

So the dissonance is in full force lately. That the one that was written as a failure before it even came out ended up having a better commercial result despite being written off as being a disgrace to the franchise and its identity.

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I don't recall XVI being written off before it launched at all. When the demo dropped especially people were hyped. After release there was lots of criticism though.

 

[Linus815]

16's demo had very positive impressions .I recall the thread to predict 16's review score on era also pegged it at 90+. And it ranked #7 on eras goty list.

Dreamboum you are hilighting a vocal minority that was non stop shitting on the game. The general conensus even on era was positive. I mean, FF7 Remake was the same way. The OT at its most active point almost felt like it was for a 5/10 game with how much constant criticism there was. But it ended #2 on era's goty list for that year.

I know the FF fanbase has a lot of infighting which is frankly really dumb, but its been like that for a while now unfortunately. Like I remember when 12 came out people were shitting on that too because it wasn't 10.

 

[Spehornoob]

16's demo had very positive impressions .I recall the thread to predict 16's review score on era also pegged it at 90+. And it ranked #7 on eras goty list.

Dreamboum you are hilighting a vocal minority that was non stop shitting on the game. The general conensus even on era was positive. I mean, FF7 Remake was the same way. The OT at its most active point almost felt like it was for a 5/10 game with how much constant criticism there was. But it ended #2 on era's goty list for that year.

I know the FF fanbase has a lot of infighting which is frankly really dumb, but its been like that for a while now unfortunately. Like I remember when 12 came out people were shitting on that too because it wasn't 10.

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I don't like using my ignore list too much but adding just a few folks to it made Final Fantasy discussion, especially around XVI, much more tolerable here.

It is a vocal minority, but man can it be frustrating. (And, to be clear, having a negative opinion about XVI or any Final Fantasy game is perfectly valid and worthy of respectful discussion, but there were voices going well beyond just that.)

 

[Switters]

this deserves a lore page but it's a sequel to the FF16 sales thread where a lot put their baskets in FF16 failing commercially.
It wasn't expected that Rebirth would underperform,, especially not against FF16. And this forum had many members egging on the previous mainline game (FF16) released 9 months prior and it turns out it sold better, so there's a bit of a 9/11 situation for the fandom because it doesn't fit any pre-established narrative of "real FF" triumphing over the "fake FF", and we had multiple threads about how "word of mouth" and "critical reception" will carry Rebirth upwards, which so far it didn't.

This is coming from the coattails of the latest FF before that having articles like this

So the dissonance is in full force lately. That the one that was written as a failure before it even came out ended up having a better commercial result despite being written off as being a disgrace to the franchise and its identity.

There's also the dimension of Rebirth being bigger and better and yet not managing to escape the expected sequel drop-off unlike Spiderman 2 and God of War Ragnarok. Basically the JRPG sells like a JRPG, and that's the issue.

Click to shrink...

I truly appreciate the write up. TLDR; = Final Fantasy (the video game franchise) is serious fucking business🤷‍♂️

 

[Elyian]

I don't like using my ignore list too much but adding just a few folks to it made Final Fantasy discussion, especially around XVI, much more tolerable here.

It is a vocal minority, but man can it be frustrating. (And, to be clear, having a negative opinion about XVI or any Final Fantasy game is perfectly valid and worthy of respectful discussion, but there were voices going well beyond just that.)

Click to shrink...

I've yet to use the ignore feature, and i'd like to keep it that way personally, but MAAAAAAAAAAAAN do I understand the need for it with the FF discussions around here sometimes. I've been a lurker for so long, just glancing at threads here and there and never really noticed any of it before, but deciding to engage just a bit with the discussion with both XVI and Rebirth and sheesh, people get hella combative over the silliest things lol

 

[Cantaim]

this deserves a lore page but it's a sequel to the FF16 sales thread where a lot put their baskets in FF16 failing commercially.
It wasn't expected that Rebirth would underperform,, especially not against FF16. And this forum had many members egging on the previous mainline game (FF16) released 9 months prior and it turns out it sold better, so there's a bit of a 9/11 situation for the fandom because it doesn't fit any pre-established narrative of "real FF" triumphing over the "fake FF", and we had multiple threads about how "word of mouth" and "critical reception" will carry Rebirth upwards, which so far it didn't.

This is coming from the coattails of the latest FF before that having articles like this

So the dissonance is in full force lately. That the one that was written as a failure before it even came out ended up having a better commercial result despite being written off as being a disgrace to the franchise and its identity.

There's also the dimension of Rebirth being bigger and better and yet not managing to escape the expected sequel drop-off unlike Spiderman 2 and God of War Ragnarok. Basically the JRPG sells like a JRPG, and that's the issue.

Click to shrink...

It's like watching people console war, but the war is just two games from the same series that are both good.

 

[Spehornoob]

I truly appreciate the write up. TLDR; = Final Fantasy (the video game franchise) is serious fucking business🤷‍♂️

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Kinda funny for such a goofy franchise, huh?

(I say it with all the love in the world)

 

[Mifec]

FF discussions are always shitshows, you get used to it, from the XV hype squads to people coping about Morrigan's good and correct Remake thread to the XVI is somehow "le bad" and now to this.

It's a vibe.

 

[Rutger]

People are seriously sleeping on Metaphor. Persona 5 Royal has a metacritic of 95 (higher that Rebirth's 92) and it's the first new game (non-remake, non-spinoff) from the makers of Persona since P5. Metaphor could easily be a GOTY contender this year

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Yeah, I've been wondering about Metaphor. If it sticks the landing and with Persona's built up momentum, it could end up surprising many.

I haven't been paying too much attention to so I don't even know what it needs to do to stick that landing, but it probably shouldn't be ignored.

 

[jman2050]

this deserves a lore page but it's a sequel to the FF16 sales thread where a lot put their baskets in FF16 failing commercially.
It wasn't expected that Rebirth would underperform,, especially not against FF16. And this forum had many members egging on the previous mainline game (FF16) released 9 months prior and it turns out it sold better, so there's a bit of a 9/11 situation for the fandom because it doesn't fit any pre-established narrative of "real FF" triumphing over the "fake FF", and we had multiple threads about how "word of mouth" and "critical reception" will carry Rebirth upwards, which so far it didn't.

This is coming from the coattails of the latest FF before that having articles like this

So the dissonance is in full force lately. That the one that was written as a failure before it even came out ended up having a better commercial result despite being written off as being a disgrace to the franchise and its identity.

There's also the dimension of Rebirth being bigger and better and yet not managing to escape the expected sequel drop-off unlike Spiderman 2 and God of War Ragnarok. Basically the JRPG sells like a JRPG, and that's the issue.

Click to shrink...

I've said it in previous threads, but the crux of this whole affair is that FF's sales and brand power are currently situated in the realm of "solid but not spectacular" and nobody is happy with this status quo.

 

[Rickyrozay2o9]

People are seriously sleeping on Metaphor. Persona 5 Royal has a metacritic of 95 (higher that Rebirth's 92) and it's the first new game (non-remake, non-spinoff) from the makers of Persona since P5. Metaphor could easily be a GOTY contender this year

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Not going to lie I watch the trailers for it and I can't really get too excited. Hopefully it turns out good though so theres atleast something else to play.

 

[Rutger]

I've said it in previous threads, but the crux of this whole affair is that FF's sales and brand power are currently situated in the realm of "solid but not spectacular" and nobody is happy with this status quo.

Click to shrink...

I don't think this status quo is necessarily a bad thing.

One thing that happens often before a series sees increased success is a good string of constant high quality games that has people constantly saying "play this thing I love". Stuff like Monster Hunter had before World had.

And FF is seeing that at the moment. Worst thing that can happen right now is if they slow down too much imo. Luckily FFVIIR part 3 shouldn't be too far away.

 

[Dreamboum]

It's like watching people console war, but the war is just two games from the same series that are both good.

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Pretty much. It was not surprising a FF game made by a studio that is their first singleplayer FF game (well it has staff from FF12 but it was a long time ago) will have friction.
Very much CBU1 vs CBU3 infighting.

 

[BobLoblaw]

It's like watching people console war, but the war is just two games from the same series that are both good.

Click to shrink...

But are they both good, though? [attempts to extend thread for 50 more pages]

 

[Spehornoob]

I like Final Fantasy XVI and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth

 

[ZSeibar]

I like Final Fantasy XVI and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth

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Honestly. Same

Spoiler

but ff7r is better

 

[MidasTouch]

I like Final Fantasy XVI and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth

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This is the correct take.

 

[Trevelyon]

Sqaure-Enix need to launch the next mainline entry as wide as possible and definitely, definitely DEFINITELY include Nintendo's next platform.

 

[Mifec]

I like Final Fantasy XVI and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth

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16 is actually better.

I've not played either.

 

[Spehornoob]

Sqaure-Enix need to launch the next mainline entry as wide as possible and definitely, definitely DEFINITELY include Nintendo's next platform.

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I agree, but I'm not sure how the fans would take that.

If Final Fantasy XVII weren't a step up in production value from XVI or Rebirth, or if it were even a step down to hit the Switch 2, would that risk alienating the fans who see cutting edge graphical fidelity as a core tenet of the series?

(Though I personally hope the Switch 2 has enough juice to play compromised versions of current gen AAA games, but who knows.)

 

[Lumination]

Hopefully Switch 2 closes enough of a gap that modern AAA games can be down-ressed and look playable.

 

[Majunior]

People are seriously sleeping on Metaphor. Persona 5 Royal has a metacritic of 95 (higher that Rebirth's 92) and it's the first new game (non-remake, non-spinoff) from the makers of Persona since P5. Metaphor could easily be a GOTY contender this year

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I agree with this. Metaphor probably has the bet shot outside of Rebirth for GOTY, which works out for me because I'm not expecting P6 to win if it's coming next year lol.

 

[Saito Hikari]

this deserves a lore page but it's a sequel to the FF16 sales thread where a lot put their baskets in FF16 failing commercially.
It wasn't expected that Rebirth would underperform,, especially not against FF16. And this forum had many members egging on the previous mainline game (FF16) released 9 months prior and it turns out it sold better, so there's a bit of a 9/11 situation for the fandom because it doesn't fit any pre-established narrative of "real FF" triumphing over the "fake FF", and we had multiple threads about how "word of mouth" and "critical reception" will carry Rebirth upwards, which so far it didn't.

This is coming from the coattails of the latest FF before that having articles like this

So the dissonance is in full force lately. That the one that was written as a failure before it even came out ended up having a better commercial result despite being written off as being a disgrace to the franchise and its identity.

There's also the dimension of Rebirth being bigger and better and yet not managing to escape the expected sequel drop-off unlike Spiderman 2 and God of War Ragnarok. Basically the JRPG sells like a JRPG, and that's the issue.

Click to shrink...

It's not even an Era thing too, it's a FF fandom thing across the whole internet.

Even people at Install Base were completely blindsided by Rebirth's performance, they have a thread there discussing the sales potential of the game that has been ongoing since 2-3 weeks before launch. The pre-launch poll they held showed that even a forum like that purely focused on sales discussion still had a large majority of people assume that it'd at least match or surpass XVI, and only about 8% of poll participants thought the other way around was possible.

Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth - Which Potential ?

We are a few days away from the launch of the highly anticipated Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, and I believe it is time to discuss its potential, both in terms of sales and what it means for the future of the franchise. Sales After years of struggles, Final Fantasy now have a more efficient...

www.installbaseforum.com

 

[TheMerv]

So it's an FF7/CBU1 problem and not a Final Fantasy problem?

 

[Saito Hikari]

So it's an FF7/CBU1 problem and not a Final Fantasy problem?

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I'd consider that it's hard to conclude that at this point in time as we currently have nothing to prove that it is as you say, even if we know if XVI's issues and Rebirth's issues in regards to sales are in different universes.

XVI's possible problem is that it's just a PS5 exclusive.

Rebirth has to contend with that AND the fact that it's a remake + second entry of a trilogy, with all the mixed messaging that entails in regards to how difficult or easy it would be to just jump into that game. It's an entirely unique situation.

One would confidently say that it's a franchise wide problem if the PC ports for both games flop in a similar trajectory. But if XVI performs well when it comes to PC while 7R2 flops in comparison, then it's more likely to be the FF7 brand in particular along with the trilogy of remakes thing being the major culprit more than anything else.

 

[Rutger]

It's not even an Era thing too, it's a FF fandom thing across the whole internet.

Even people at Install Base were completely blindsided by Rebirth's performance, they have a thread there discussing the sales potential of the game that has been ongoing since 2-3 weeks before launch. The pre-launch poll they held showed that even a forum like that purely focused on sales discussion still had a large majority of people assume that it'd at least match or surpass XVI, and only about 8% of poll participants thought the other way around was possible.

Click to shrink...

Before we started getting some data, I also felt it at least matching FFXVI was the likely scenario. My thoughts were that FF fans were the most likely to show up for FFXVI at launch, and then add in those fans that buy a PS5 inbetween then and Rebirth.

But now we know that FFXVI to some degree had a solid pull of new and/or younger players to the series. My guess is that made much of the difference.

 

[Zebesian-X]

this deserves a lore page but it's a sequel to the FF16 sales thread where a lot put their baskets in FF16 failing commercially.
It wasn't expected that Rebirth would underperform,, especially not against FF16. And this forum had many members egging on the previous mainline game (FF16) released 9 months prior and it turns out it sold better, so there's a bit of a 9/11 situation for the fandom because it doesn't fit any pre-established narrative of "real FF" triumphing over the "fake FF", and we had multiple threads about how "word of mouth" and "critical reception" will carry Rebirth upwards, which so far it didn't.

This is coming from the coattails of the latest FF before that having articles like this

So the dissonance is in full force lately. That the one that was written as a failure before it even came out ended up having a better commercial result despite being written off as being a disgrace to the franchise and its identity.

There's also the dimension of Rebirth being bigger and better and yet not managing to escape the expected sequel drop-off unlike Spiderman 2 and God of War Ragnarok. Basically the JRPG sells like a JRPG, and that's the issue.

Click to shrink...

FF franchise sales in-fighting, also known as "they're having a mid off"

 

[unknown_nut]

Both FF16 and Rebirth could have been much bigger if it was day one on PC. Now when both release on PC, it'll be met with okay sales rather than big sales. SE need to follow the rest of the big Japanese publishers and multi platform every big game. We've seen Tales series, Yakuza series, Persona series, Souls games, etc get such a big boost by not treating PC players like an afterthought.

 

[Holundrian]

So it's an FF7/CBU1 problem and not a Final Fantasy problem?

Click to shrink...

To me it seems mainly still a PS5 problem. Maybe this is too much conjecture but like as a genre where FF7 games falls into you are generally not in a huge rush to jump at the new shiny tech. Like when you're real about it there hasn't been a single JRPG except the two FF games(and 16 very arguably falls a bit more out of the type of games that appeals to people that generally are all over your Tales games and Personas and older FFs) as of now pushing tech to the degree where the people that are most into these games would need a PS5 for. Persona 3 Reload, Infinite Wealth, Metaphor all games that will still be on PS4.

Like I have friends that I'd say are decently avid gamers they all play like a 5 or more things each year at minimum but they don't really feel a need yet to own a current gen console.

One thing I will say is that people that frequent places like era regularly def feel mostly out of touch with what I think is more representative of the average normal playing person that just plays their games and chats with their friends about them. The frequency you get to read takes that at least appear to me highly fringe is pretty wild, but even more so is the attitude of people that do have those having a high lack of self awareness of how common their feelings are. As a rule of thumb if you're feeling generally very strongly about a thing to the degree of feeling the need to fight it out you're probably already within a very "exclusive" group of people with opinions, lets call it that. I dunno I feel when you talk to normal people you most likely do not get that degree of investment on certain takes like trying to establish that FF16 that most people that played it ended up not liking it or something like that. Most people don't even tend to think that intensely about the games they play.

 

[BatThiago]

I won't go as far as to say "I hope all square games fail but.... I kinda do?
I mean, when XV released i went through hell to get one of those copies that gone into the wild and my reward was a good, but flawed and incomplete game. But good, nonetheless. And then came the wave of story dlc that on later date became cheap for those who didn't bought the game yet, with the royal edition.
Then, they announced VII remake and i went wild on the hype, pre ordered the steel case the second it got announced and...the same thing when the intermission came.
not to mention the state that everyone of those games launched technically speaking. XV became a lot less annoying to me when i got my PS4 Pro.
XVI came with the promise of not doing those things and........did those things.
Well, i can only say that i, at least, didn't bother buying rebirth. And i HOPE that i'm not alone on that.
(ignore the angry rant about square, i just needed to write it somewhere lol)

 

[Vareon]

I won't go as far as to say "I hope all square games fail but.... I kinda do?
I mean, when XV released i went through hell to get one of those copies that gone into the wild and my reward was a good, but flawed and incomplete game. But good, nonetheless. And then came the wave of story dlc that on later date became cheap for those who didn't bought the game yet, with the royal edition.
Then, they announced VII remake and i went wild on the hype, pre ordered the steel case the second it got announced and...the same thing when the intermission came.
not to mention the state that everyone of those games launched technically speaking. XV became a lot less annoying to me when i got my PS4 Pro.
XVI came with the promise of not doing those things and........did those things.
Well, i can only say that i, at least, didn't bother buying rebirth. And i HOPE that i'm not alone on that.
(ignore the angry rant about square, i just needed to write it somewhere lol)

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Not to be an annoying guy but if you say you're wild on hype, were you not following the news and interviews for the games prior to release?

Given that XV was salvaged from Versus XIII and they were handed a narrative scope way more than they were equipped for. A lot of promised narrative beats got shoved into Kingsglaive and all those DLC. It was an incomplete game, but the circumstances surrounding the game was pretty transparent, the game held a lot of progress reports that you can make a decision whether to buy it on launch or not.

I don't think anyone who played Remake thought that a Yuffie side story was missing, so when Intermission was announced, everyone treated it as just a DLC. Like, say, The Old Hunters for Bloodborne. Or Xenoblade's DLC. Or any other game, really.

Unless you only read headlines, you can see YoshiP and Takai repeatedly said that you won't need any other media to enjoy XVI's story, and that DLC is dependent on the game's reception. Come release, XVI's story was complete, the reception was good, so the DLC project when through. They stated this every time DLC was asked. And I can tell you that it's not a given that the PC release will include both DLC on a single price, because wordings on their interview stated they were still planning on how to include the complete version on PC--not indicating that PC players will get DLC for free. So if you're budget concerned, you should wait for price drop.

I'm genuinely curious because since XIV, SE's communications have gotten way better and at no point I'm buying any FF feeling I was duped or tricked. Everything else can be inferred. Like, I'm quite confident they're not doing an Intermission type DLC for Rebirth because they probably just want to get the series done now, but if Rebirth is ported to PC, it's quite likely that they add a few stuff or QoL changes or even new battles, because they can and it adds some value to the port.

 

[silentq15]

Maybe I am just getting old or something but it was always my impression the 1 Million copies in general is good no matter the game. The fact that's it's possible this game did 2-3 Million already seems fantastic. I get that in comparison to other FF's that's not that great but is it really worth pages and pages of concern? Do people have hard numbers on what the budget for this game was and that's why? I am just starting to not get it anymore this seems fine to me.

 

[oty]

Maybe I am just getting old or something but it was always my impression the 1 Million copies in general is good no matter the game. The fact that's it's possible this game did 2-3 Million already seems fantastic. I get that in comparison to other FF's that's not that great but is it really worth pages and pages of concern? Do people have hard numbers on what the budget for this game was and that's why? I am just starting to not get it anymore this seems fine to me.

Click to shrink...

crunch up the numbers and there's a very clear picture of a decline in sales of FF. that would spark discussion in any franchise

FF is also one of the most iconic gaming franchises of all time, specially for older audiences aka Era. put those two babies together and voila, you get 50 pages worth of people talking about why, how, since when and until when this is happening to this franchise.

it's really not that big of a deal, and for the most part the discussion has been fairly calm and interesting. people have their takes, a lot of them have some truths to them. there really isnt some explanation as to why it's such a thing that this thread out of all threads has a lot of pages. people aren't flaming here, it's literally just....normal talking

 

[filkry]

Maybe I am just getting old or something but it was always my impression the 1 Million copies in general is good no matter the game. The fact that's it's possible this game did 2-3 Million already seems fantastic. I get that in comparison to other FF's that's not that great but is it really worth pages and pages of concern? Do people have hard numbers on what the budget for this game was and that's why? I am just starting to not get it anymore this seems fine to me.

Click to shrink...

AAA games cost hundreds of million to develop these days, so 1 million is really not enough for a game like this to be a success (not accounting for any other deals like the Sony exclusivity).

 

[silentq15]

AAA games cost hundreds of million to develop these days, so 1 million is really not enough for a game like this to be a success (not accounting for any other deals like the Sony exclusivity).

Click to shrink...

This particular game in general I have a hunch cost 100-150 Million to make tops and that's probably an overestimation when you considering a bunch of factors. I assume Sony probably paid for most of those costs so overall I am fairly sure Square Enix is making profit here. I just doubt this will overall have any material impact of FF as a franchise or FF7 as a separate franchise.

To me the worst thing that could happen is Square Enix changing things too much because this is probably one of the best games they have ever made. If anything just market it better.

 

[Holundrian]

Maybe I am just getting old or something but it was always my impression the 1 Million copies in general is good no matter the game. The fact that's it's possible this game did 2-3 Million already seems fantastic. I get that in comparison to other FF's that's not that great but is it really worth pages and pages of concern? Do people have hard numbers on what the budget for this game was and that's why? I am just starting to not get it anymore this seems fine to me.

Click to shrink...

Like you state the premise 1 million in sales is good no matter the game as if you cannot conceive any factors that go into the sales of a game that would change that? Not sure how to put it but that is just conceptually off. Like do you really not understand that if a game costs more to make than it earns from 1 million sales then suddenly those sales aren't really good anymore? And the cost of games vary wildly from game to game.

Basically if you cannot conceive that changing the parameters of what 1 millions sales means changes the evaluation of the result of that, that's just weird and that doesn't seem to relate much to age rather than conceptual understanding of the financial side. And like that's even before we get to things like any game being made doesn't just hope to recoup its cost but actually aims to make profit and ideally so much that it can fund the next game from itself.

Not making a statement here on what the sales mean to be clear more like pointing out how odd it seems to connect your age to a conclusion like "1 million sales must always be good no matter the game".