LOL can someone even point to when this forum does any of that? Do the mods have a secret site when they patch updates and this shit goes on where we don't know about it?
Era: "Are we the baddies?"
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David Jaffe (creator of God of War) has a bone to pick with ResetEra.
- Thread starter Tangled Up in Blue
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LOL can someone even point to when this forum does any of that? Do the mods have a secret site when they patch updates and this shit goes on where we don't know about it?
Era: "Are we the baddies?"
To who? The obvious alt that got banned for trolling? Or that cunt Jaffe?
"Expanded" is a bit of a weird word in this case; hate speech isn't illegal in the U.S. by itself to begin with. Laws that attempt to make it illegal can be shot down based on the first amendment. If hate speech is penalized, it's because it's in the form of a specific threat.
You mean the thing Jaffe started doing before anyone else? Yeah people are going to call him names when he started it himself. News at 11
People like Jaffe aren't really interested in critical thinking as much as unique thinking. There is nothing critical about his argument, it's either a, taking a value, freedom of speech, far beyond its scope and meaning to people or b, an incomplete slippery slope.
If he wants to be a critical thinker he should either do research to see historically what has happened in events like Milo getting banned and construct reasoning why it would happen today/ read someone accredit who has done this and read their reasoning. Or construct a timeline of events that link together well enough and with reason.
But he doesn't do any of this, he seems to be like most YouTube skeptics/critical thinkers and think that having a different thought should be enough to be considered critical thinking and warrants the same merit, enough to be in discussion in how we handle present day issues. This type of thinking is absolutely silly and there would be no leap in logic to using the same argument that flat earthers have the same merit as scientists to debate how to handle Climate change.
And now he is upset that people responded with the same amount of thought that he put in.
If he wants to be a critical thinker he should either do research to see historically what has happened in events like Milo getting banned and construct reasoning why it would happen today/ read someone accredit who has done this and read their reasoning. Or construct a timeline of events that link together well enough and with reason.
But he doesn't do any of this, he seems to be like most YouTube skeptics/critical thinkers and think that having a different thought should be enough to be considered critical thinking and warrants the same merit, enough to be in discussion in how we handle present day issues. This type of thinking is absolutely silly and there would be no leap in logic to using the same argument that flat earthers have the same merit as scientists to debate how to handle Climate change.
And now he is upset that people responded with the same amount of thought that he put in.
I'm not saying it's wrong. But the people who separate the art from the creator are free to do that as well and shouldn't be criticized for it (within reason of course).
I don't have a fucking alt account. I am a university student with a full time job, I don't post much. I ask people to be a bit nicer and every toxic person in this place calls me out for not posting every day like I don't have shit to do.
There were a couple instances of posters attempting to dox. Said posters were permabanned and the posts were deleted.
Event venues and websites have just as much of a first amendment right to not host Milo as he has a first amendment right to be a dumb fuck. He kind of misses the entire point of freedom of speech with the assumption that private organizations have an inherent obligation to cater to anyone who wants to speak there or use their services.
It isn't. At all. Free speech involves your right to not be censored by the government. The ability to kick someone off your private property because they broke your rules strongly resonates with "American values".
Well this 'toxic' person will continue to call out bigots and racists and misogynists and im gonna sleep damn fine doing it. Feels good.
...good for you? Whether or not you can ignore someone's political opinions is a choice that you make entirely for yourself. the problem here is that Jaffe thinks freedom of speech=freedom from any sort of negative critique or consequences and is now shellshocked that a racist, transphobic, pedophile defending douche is a sensitive topic.
I went to his Twitter to see what is being talked about in the OP.
But I'm banned by David Jaffe.
And I legit have no idea why.
But I'm banned by David Jaffe.
And I legit have no idea why.
It's really bizarre how many people have bold new solutions to stopping a guy with no money and no supporters.
A shit ton of people are tired of hearing that they should open their arms and ears to people that want them to die or get shipped out of the US. Pardon them for not wanting to hear one more person ride the fence of both-sides.
Boy, this is all i'm seeing now. I'm just feeling bad for Jaffe now reading his Twitter responses to comments
Its just sounding like Jaffe has been like out of the loop or something in what has been happening in gaming/news. Him chiming in now out of nowhere is not helping at all and just making it look bad on himself. lol
probably because the people who "don't really give a shit" constantly insert themselves in the conversation and complain whenever those things are discussed.
No you're not. Jaffe is, and has long been, a clown. He's getting clowned on as clowns are wont to do. He's been getting this clowning for various reasons before he went to bat with a demonstrably literally false argument that white supremacist rat fuckers should be given a platform so... they'll go away.
Comparing the moderation of a damn video game forum to some sort of oppressive government is deeply pathetic. Don't do that.
Sure, you can still enjoy God of War (the PS2 ones) while still thinking that Jaffe is a dick. There's no problem with that and I think the majority of the forum agrees on this one. We are not discussing the God of War games though, we are discussing (more like dissing, with a reason) Jaffe political views.
Do you know even hear yourself?
We're just expressing our honest-to-god right free speech to call Jaffe mean names. After all, he's okay with Milo spreading hateful rhetoric. So it should be fair if we're hostile towards Jaffe for no reason, right? This MURICA after all!
Oh you're a year old account with only 60 posts defending a bigot. Never mind, I see where this is going.
Ah okay. Well at least the mods took care of it. Hell, I didn't even know that went down and I am on here at least once or twice a day during my commute to work.
I mean I agree that ERA sucks at having actual nuanced conversations on anything more complicated than a Marvel movie... but that kind of goes for anywhere on the internet. The way forums and message boards are structured isnt really conductive for a back and forth argument.
OP
OP
I know you're gone now, but I just wanted to say this:
At the height of Gamergate, Anita Sarkeesian had to flee her apartment because someone on Twitter threatened to rape and murder her, threatened to kill her parents, and then posted both hers and her parents' addresses. She has had to cancel speaking engagements due to threats, hire personal security when she travels, and has talked about how the entire ordeal has given her pretty debilitating anxiety.
When you say something as absurd as ResetEra is just as toxic as Gamergate, this is what you're comparing us to. Just for perspective.
Maybe you are being honest I don't know, but it's super common here for trolls to use alt accounts with a super low post count that only seem to show up in threads like these to defend shitty views, so keep that in mind. Also it's not like posting takes more than a second, so I find it hard to believe there are that many people who regularly use this site for news but barely even comment to say things like they're excited for a piece of news.
The Germany example is very good. In Germany nazi propaganda is banned by law. You go to jail if you defend it. There's no silly 'freedom of speech' debate around it. They know very well what can happen if you allow hate speech. Hell, the US fought in WW2 to end that nightmare. Why are we even discussing this? I just don't get it. It's like we're going back at not understanding what fascism is.
the good news is that you have more time to focus on your school and work. best of luck to you in your future endeavors
yeah I can totally agree with you here. And honestly, i wish all of era could express themselves just like you did. No need to offend jaffes carreer or anything like that.
Hey David, I posted that video. Glad to help.
First- I think that yes, Era posters were a bit too reactionary about his views on Milo, etc. The fact is, I held those views too back in the GAF days. I wasnt too popular about it either. The fact is, i DRASTICALLY changed my stance on it when Charlottesville happened. It was the moment that I realized it wasnt just talk anymore. That "marketplace of ideas" you preached about is great -on paper, but that same 'marketplace' also produced a product. A product of hatred, white supremacy, etc. You also stated "the better ideas win in this marketplace". Ok- just like you ask- "who decides what hate speech is?", I'll ask: who decides what "the better ideas" are? Nazis? Authoritarians? Because thats what the 'marketplace' gave us in 2016. A far-fight slide into looneyville where Nazis and Nationalist are coming out like they own the goddamn place.
Im pretty sure most of us agreed in tbat 'marketplace' in the first half of the 1900's thats Nazis are bad. Agressively. I travelled down the Youtube rabbit hole of these fuckwits a while back. All of them. The fact about them is simple. They're grifters plain and simple. They arent bringing a product to that marketplace. They wanna BE the marketplace. And theyve been exposed as thise things already.
The truth is, I agree with you. Fuck it, let em have their platform. Let them get their ideas out there. But with a caveat. Lets all agree that omce weve discovered their "ideas" are cancer, we do with them exactly what we do with said cancer. We fight it aggresively until it goes away, or it destroys us.
If that 'marketplace' always produced "the better ideas" Martin Luther King wouldnt have been deplatformed if you know what I mean. The civil rights era would have concluded with actual civil rights. The wouldnt be slipping into a fascist hellscape, government would function properly and climate change wouldnt even be a conversation. There would be a far lower number of poor and homeless, and we'd be a much happier society. But none of that is true. Because that "MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS" is flawed. Why? Because its filled wall to wall with shoddy salesman, and the marginalized people in that marketplace are goddamn sick of hearing ---IDEAS---.
But yes, I agree that folks throw around the term 'alt right' like its candy at the local parade. Its frustrating because 1)it diminishes the weight of the word, and 2)Its a word for Nazis. They created the word to try and make their shitty "ideas" to go mainstream. People using that work are playing into that scheme.
But overall, being about free speech is just fine. But society also has the freedom to show you the fucking door if you ideas are shit.
First- I think that yes, Era posters were a bit too reactionary about his views on Milo, etc. The fact is, I held those views too back in the GAF days. I wasnt too popular about it either. The fact is, i DRASTICALLY changed my stance on it when Charlottesville happened. It was the moment that I realized it wasnt just talk anymore. That "marketplace of ideas" you preached about is great -on paper, but that same 'marketplace' also produced a product. A product of hatred, white supremacy, etc. You also stated "the better ideas win in this marketplace". Ok- just like you ask- "who decides what hate speech is?", I'll ask: who decides what "the better ideas" are? Nazis? Authoritarians? Because thats what the 'marketplace' gave us in 2016. A far-fight slide into looneyville where Nazis and Nationalist are coming out like they own the goddamn place.
Im pretty sure most of us agreed in tbat 'marketplace' in the first half of the 1900's thats Nazis are bad. Agressively. I travelled down the Youtube rabbit hole of these fuckwits a while back. All of them. The fact about them is simple. They're grifters plain and simple. They arent bringing a product to that marketplace. They wanna BE the marketplace. And theyve been exposed as thise things already.
The truth is, I agree with you. Fuck it, let em have their platform. Let them get their ideas out there. But with a caveat. Lets all agree that omce weve discovered their "ideas" are cancer, we do with them exactly what we do with said cancer. We fight it aggresively until it goes away, or it destroys us.
If that 'marketplace' always produced "the better ideas" Martin Luther King wouldnt have been deplatformed if you know what I mean. The civil rights era would have concluded with actual civil rights. The wouldnt be slipping into a fascist hellscape, government would function properly and climate change wouldnt even be a conversation. There would be a far lower number of poor and homeless, and we'd be a much happier society. But none of that is true. Because that "MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS" is flawed. Why? Because its filled wall to wall with shoddy salesman, and the marginalized people in that marketplace are goddamn sick of hearing ---IDEAS---.
But yes, I agree that folks throw around the term 'alt right' like its candy at the local parade. Its frustrating because 1)it diminishes the weight of the word, and 2)Its a word for Nazis. They created the word to try and make their shitty "ideas" to go mainstream. People using that work are playing into that scheme.
But overall, being about free speech is just fine. But society also has the freedom to show you the fucking door if you ideas are shit.
There's a difference between calling out someone for their views and only passively being aware (or unaware of it). If you like Jaffe's thoughts on gaming, ok, whatever. Others take issue with his political stance and whether there's any sort of influence on gaming as a whole or if it may color his opinions of things.
If you don't care about his political stances or something, then ok. But posting in a thread that's entirely about that is like being a Nintendo fan and posting in a thread about some game that's only on PS4/XB1 and the differences between it and going "i don't care, why on earth do you care?"
Yeah, this is a point that is so bizarrely lost on so many. So much of the right-wing media complex is entirely based around the "trigger the libs" mantra. Milo goes farrrrr beyond that to the point that people on the freaking far right won't go to bat for him.
And if I was condoning his behavior n feeling bad for him you might have something resembling a point. But I haven't been, the opposite in fact.
I'm not putting equal blame on both sides I acknowledge jaffe is worse in this convo. I however it's short sighted, ignorant, and stupid to blindly act like he is even in the same league as Alex Jones. As there is a huge gap in scumbaggery between idiot and the double stuffed bigot shit barrel that is someone like Alex Jones.
I'm not going to capitulate to your stupid view where I have to be okay giving a license to dumb because you think so long as one side does something worse it absolved the other. Spare me the "both sidesing it meme", I mean fucking Christ instead of actually addressing my point your go to was "hur dur you are fox newsing it". Get a clue pls if this is how you are going to argue.
I continue to be bewildered by this current phase of Jaffe's career.
Also the whole free speech thing is soooo tired and played out by now. If you still don't get that it only applies to protection from action by the government then there's really no point discussing it.
Also the whole free speech thing is soooo tired and played out by now. If you still don't get that it only applies to protection from action by the government then there's really no point discussing it.
Do you not consider Era an echo chamber? I identify with the politics of the forum, but even I get weirded out by how fast the hammer gets dropped on people who end up being considered the enemy way too easily. I know it's absolutely the right of a private forum, but it's liable to breed sanctimony and loss of perspective.
The ability to ban speech that's deemed racist or hateful by the Singaporean government is exactly what's happening here. Now Singapore is the safest country in the world and all that, but not everyone agrees with how they govern.
That's nice, so am I.
Anyway, it wasn't an unreasonable assumption to make considering every single thread that deals with a socially contentious topic (including this one) has people with extremely low post counts saying extremely suspect things. And guess what? The vast majority of times they end up being alt accounts (or troll accounts of people from other sites). If you're the exception here, well fair enough, but let's not act like its an uncommon occurrence.
And my second point in my last post still stands. Jaffe brought this on himself. Funnily enough, it seems like Jaffe is the one who doesn't have shit to do if he's going to try to start some feud with an internet video game message board. But hey, who am I to judge, right?
Yeah, i quite like Jaffe but he's obviously not thinking straight, Milo is beyond just being a right wing dickhead, he's poison.
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