It's honestly not that hard, especially if you beat genocide back in UT. You don't need to tire him out, just survive, so focus on building up TP to use hypnotize when you can and heal accordingly, that's all.
its a jokey way to say raisel is the sort who uses politeness as a substitute to being an actually good person, which is an obnoxious character to be around even fictionally.
sure raisel claims he wants to bring the good out of people, but he spends half of the game belittling suzie and lancer - who are actually bringing goodness out of each other by connecting with each other. hes a character that seems to think if he says something politely that should be enough to sway someone even if what hes saying is actually super passive agressive or condenscending. but imo none of this is overt or played up enough to be comedic and the characters development is a mostly flat line so i found him increasingly unbearable. its like if suzie stayed in "fuck you i do what i want losers" mode the whole game, id find her unbearable too
the only real pushback the game gives raisel is when the king tricks him and even then his takeway is kindness isnt always enough - which rang hollow to me because as the game went on i didnt find him particularly kind, just particularly polite.
Wait hold on. Nothing has been done for the rest of the game?
This is going to be one of those games we wait for eons for and then it will randomly drop one day, isn't it? Well I loved what I played for the demo and I have no complaints Toby, TAKE MY MONEY. TAKE IT. TAKE IT AND LET ME RUB IT IN YOUR FACE. I'll fill a bathtub full of money so you can scrooge mcduck it in the tub. I'll scientifically engineer to transform you into the undertale dog if need be. BUT LET ME GIVE YOU MONEY. Get dat game done I'll be waiting.
This is going to be one of those games we wait for eons for and then it will randomly drop one day, isn't it? Well I loved what I played for the demo and I have no complaints Toby, TAKE MY MONEY. TAKE IT. TAKE IT AND LET ME RUB IT IN YOUR FACE. I'll fill a bathtub full of money so you can scrooge mcduck it in the tub. I'll scientifically engineer to transform you into the undertale dog if need be. BUT LET ME GIVE YOU MONEY. Get dat game done I'll be waiting.
Toby is obviously very aware of the risks and sacrifices involved in making a game on a scale much higher than Undertale and honestly that fills me with hope. He knows his lack of experience in assembling a team and directing a game's development will work against him, and he's not being cocky and assuming it's all going to go swimmingly, but I'm sure exactly that is why he is equipped to pull it off and eventually will.
Hope he gets all the support and resources he needs.
Hope he gets all the support and resources he needs.
Haha, you're making it sound so easy.
But I am quite tired, so maybe I'll do better when I try again tomorrow. Could be I actually find him to be easier then.
You know, I don't necessarily agree with all of this, but I do find it an interesting read because I've been thinking and my take of the adventure in the dark world is that it's an overly simplified and abridged version of Undertale, like the original story being told by someone who didn't get the pacifist ending and didn't particularly enjoy the game much.
The setting is light vs darkness, the bad guys literally call themselves such or act overly cruel. You're in the right and the king is in the wrong, there's no ambiguity in his motivations so you have no reason to feel bad for him. You solve everyone's problem with 0 losses and everyone's happy except the bad guy in the end.
And like you say, it's mostly Susie who makes the difference, and she's an outsider.
And like you say, it's mostly Susie who makes the difference, and she's an outsider.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing tho as I think it's intentional, probably to cement the point that this is NOT Undertale.
Try again tomorrow and don't give up, stay determined!
Yeah, I think the fact that he's so hesitant about whether or not he'll succeed at making the full game with a team is the reason he'll be able to pull it off. I'm sure there are plenty of developers/creatives who would be more than willing to be a part of a team of this, especially considering the outpouring of love already for this free Chapter 1. I just really hope he still does all the music because his ear is second to none in the industry right now.
I got the feeling that there is definitely meant to be something off with Raisel. Beyond just the Asriel parallels, the way he forbids you to go into the castle, the fact that the whole castle town seems fake (like Susie says, almost like a theme park),if there's an imbalance caused by two dark fountains, why march through enemy territory to turn off their fountain instead of turning off the one in your castle right behind you, how he closes the big locked gate behind you while facing the screen, the fact that he's literally a Prince of Darkness, his weirdly passive aggressive attitude, and if you equip him with JEVILSTAIL he makes a comment about being "a GOOD devil!"
Agreed. And this is a minor part, but it really stood out to me: the way he gives a generic answer to your reply regarding whether you're worried about Suzie. Of course it plays into the game's theme of your choices making no difference, but it also made me feel like he didn't truly care. Which felt very out of character, except his character is the part that doesn't feel convincing to me in the first place. Now, I'm not saying he has to be some black and white evil villain, but I'm convinced he has ulterior motives. A prince without subjects who lives in a fake castle town? I don't buy it.
Is it too much to ask for Ralsei to be a genuinely good person with no catch? I really hope he's not ACTing.
should i buy anything at the bake sale
im a pacifist who's been saving his money but i don't know what for
im a pacifist who's been saving his money but i don't know what for
I got a thing from each. If you've got the cash go for it.
Also, am I forgetting something or did the game deliberately hide dialogue between Raisel and Kris during the Susie dungeon section? When you break them out, IIRC Raisel just finishes telling Kris something like "and that's the story" or something like that (can't recall the exact wording) and then the conversation immediately shifts to Susie arriving and freeing you.
I'm fairly certain you're correct. I remember it being kind of odd. I was hoping it would come back up but it didn't seem to in the rest of my play-through at least.
I just looked it up, he says "...so that's why, okay, Kris?" and then changes subjects when Susie walks in.
Is there anything new if I start a new game? Been meaning to dive in again and find some secret content.
This is minor, but you find something different in Asriel's draw depending on which file you play on.
Right before it cuts to Susie there, Raisel says something like "try to imagine what Susie is doing right now", then we go to Susie, and then Raisel says something like "and that's probably what's happening", as if he was just kind of narrating what we were doing as Susie. Not really hiding any dialogue, we just played through what Susie did instead of listened to Raisel tell us/guess what was happening
Yes! That does happen, and I also thought that was weird. It felt like I missed out on something important.
Edit: post above makes sense, and that also crossed my mind for sure! But I still had that feeling, probably because it was preceded by that weird Susie answer. Maybe I read too much into it though.
And isn't it a bit strange how Ralsei has been alone all this time, presumably due to that door? Maybe I missed some explanation but was he locked away? Combine that with the way he faced the screen when closing that gate like you said and yeah... it felt a little off.
But hey, he's still cute and fluffy.
Edit: post above makes sense, and that also crossed my mind for sure! But I still had that feeling, probably because it was preceded by that weird Susie answer. Maybe I read too much into it though.
And isn't it a bit strange how Ralsei has been alone all this time, presumably due to that door? Maybe I missed some explanation but was he locked away? Combine that with the way he faced the screen when closing that gate like you said and yeah... it felt a little off.
But hey, he's still cute and fluffy.
Oh gosh same.
Also, I just read your post about looking that bit of dialogue up and uh
No wonder I felt like something was up, isn't that a rather strange way to end that conversation? It doesn't sound like the way you'd end the imagining of Susie's dungeon escape to me...
I mean... why instead of how?
I mean... why instead of how?
Kind of cross-posting from the other thread about the tweet. I just finished it. Loved it.
I think it'll be a while before we see anything more of it. He said it's been three years just to make this first chapter and he hasn't done anything more or even started to build a team, so we'll be waiting a bit.
But Toby is an extremely talented individual and I have zero doubt that he'll find a way to make the thing he wants to make. I'm sure there will be no shortage of similarly talented people lining up to help him.
His quote about not thinking he has the ability to make something that will make people feel like Undertale did is interesting. And honestly I disagree with him, because the things that I enjoyed most about Undertale weren't the subversions or the multiple endings or the twisted nature of it. It was the pure charm of the characters and the writing, and I think Chapter 1 here already shows that he is capable of creating more of that.
I do agree with some of his misgivings about the battle system. I think because the game won't change whether you are pacifist or genocide, there needs to be equal incentive to do both. Pacifist explicitly makes the game tougher by preventing you from gaining XP and there really isn't a benefit other than narrative, which is one that won't exist here. And I think his thought about the battle system not totally working with multiple characters is a concern I share. I think there should be some sort of change in how you defend when multiple characters are targeted with one attack. As it stands now, you defend just the same, the only difference being multiple characters take damage if you mess up. And he is right that any sort of pacifism against stronger enemies is a lot of defending with the characters you can't Act with.
But as I said, I have no doubt that he'll figure that stuff out and put out a great product. And I'm fine waiting however long that takes.
I think it'll be a while before we see anything more of it. He said it's been three years just to make this first chapter and he hasn't done anything more or even started to build a team, so we'll be waiting a bit.
But Toby is an extremely talented individual and I have zero doubt that he'll find a way to make the thing he wants to make. I'm sure there will be no shortage of similarly talented people lining up to help him.
His quote about not thinking he has the ability to make something that will make people feel like Undertale did is interesting. And honestly I disagree with him, because the things that I enjoyed most about Undertale weren't the subversions or the multiple endings or the twisted nature of it. It was the pure charm of the characters and the writing, and I think Chapter 1 here already shows that he is capable of creating more of that.
I do agree with some of his misgivings about the battle system. I think because the game won't change whether you are pacifist or genocide, there needs to be equal incentive to do both. Pacifist explicitly makes the game tougher by preventing you from gaining XP and there really isn't a benefit other than narrative, which is one that won't exist here. And I think his thought about the battle system not totally working with multiple characters is a concern I share. I think there should be some sort of change in how you defend when multiple characters are targeted with one attack. As it stands now, you defend just the same, the only difference being multiple characters take damage if you mess up. And he is right that any sort of pacifism against stronger enemies is a lot of defending with the characters you can't Act with.
But as I said, I have no doubt that he'll figure that stuff out and put out a great product. And I'm fine waiting however long that takes.
I dunno, I don't think it's impermissible to bring up currents in real life that might be affecting the game's development. Part of media's job is to reflect or comment on the values of its audience. And it's kind of no secret that the questions of forgiveness and redemption and how much you can should or are obligated to make yourself vulnerable to help someone else have been central to public life over the past three years.
And Undertale is interesting because it gets released around the time norms start seriously shifting around these questions, particularly for the youngish progressive-ish gamers that really got into it. It kind of felt antiquated in that respect the moment it was released, though it was no less interesting for stating the old view better than it had been before.
Now the world's a much different place, and Toby's been just as effected by all of it as we have. Ralsei's character suggests that he's been trying to incorporate a more nuanced understanding of the questions, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what he comes up with in the final version.
And Undertale is interesting because it gets released around the time norms start seriously shifting around these questions, particularly for the youngish progressive-ish gamers that really got into it. It kind of felt antiquated in that respect the moment it was released, though it was no less interesting for stating the old view better than it had been before.
Now the world's a much different place, and Toby's been just as effected by all of it as we have. Ralsei's character suggests that he's been trying to incorporate a more nuanced understanding of the questions, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what he comes up with in the final version.
I started playing this, but then I put it aside after 30 minutes because I...actually have never played Undertale past the first few minutes. It seems like one of those direct sequels where a lot is missed without understanding the first.
It's not a direct continuation of the story... but yeah... you're gonna want to beat Undertale first.
Gonna babe ruth the release date as 2022. It will mess up the balance between fanservice nostalgia pandering and establishing it's own voice and still be heralded as the best game ever made because reasons.
I wasn't a fan at the time but apparently Toby released an Undertale Demo years before the actual game. This was another proof of concept, and an incredibly successful one. I'm in awe.
Okay I haven't read through this whole thread so maybe someone has already discussed this theory but here's my theory full of spoilers:
Kris has some kind of "imagination" based power which none of the monsters have and none of them understand.
By this I mean, the entire dark world is fake. None of that really happened.
Kris and Suzie stumble into a dark closet with the express goal of finding a light switch so they can get rid of the darkness. Whether he/she knows or not Kris then creates this game and world based on this goal- Kris and Suzie become literal Lightners with a quest to turn off the dark fountain and bring back the light.
Eventually they somehow get to the next classroom over and the checkerboard and deck of cards and all that stuff become the basis for the world they're in and the enemies they face. When they eventually beat the "game" they literally are in the process of flipping a light switch, and then find themselves back in the real world in a lit room.
I think this means Kris has a power of imagination that he/she can't necessarily even control that monsters aren't really aware of. Maybe living with monsters has suppressed his/her human nature to such an extent that this power to create and control is trying to free itself and that's what we see manifesting at the end.
Anyway this would all mean that Lancer and Ralsei are not real. Ralsei obviously is an analog to Kris' real world brother but I'm curious who or what Lancer and the King (and the mysteriouss Knight) correspond to.
But I think this is supported by their clothes and appearances changing, the menus and HUD changing, and the deal with the pencil becoming a wooden sword with a carbon core, things like that.
They've basically turned into kids playing a pretend game, a pretend quest, yet they just don't know it.
By this I mean, the entire dark world is fake. None of that really happened.
Kris and Suzie stumble into a dark closet with the express goal of finding a light switch so they can get rid of the darkness. Whether he/she knows or not Kris then creates this game and world based on this goal- Kris and Suzie become literal Lightners with a quest to turn off the dark fountain and bring back the light.
Eventually they somehow get to the next classroom over and the checkerboard and deck of cards and all that stuff become the basis for the world they're in and the enemies they face. When they eventually beat the "game" they literally are in the process of flipping a light switch, and then find themselves back in the real world in a lit room.
I think this means Kris has a power of imagination that he/she can't necessarily even control that monsters aren't really aware of. Maybe living with monsters has suppressed his/her human nature to such an extent that this power to create and control is trying to free itself and that's what we see manifesting at the end.
Anyway this would all mean that Lancer and Ralsei are not real. Ralsei obviously is an analog to Kris' real world brother but I'm curious who or what Lancer and the King (and the mysteriouss Knight) correspond to.
But I think this is supported by their clothes and appearances changing, the menus and HUD changing, and the deal with the pencil becoming a wooden sword with a carbon core, things like that.
They've basically turned into kids playing a pretend game, a pretend quest, yet they just don't know it.
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I was actually theorizing about this a few pages back.
In particular, I believe Ralsei actually corresponds to Kris' childhood wish of who he was, as the only human living in a family of goats and in a town of monsters. When Ralsei takes off his hat, you can see he has pink horns. Later on when talking to Toriel (or Asgore, I forget who) they mention buying Kris a pair of fake pink horns to wear after Kris started asking when his would come in. Ralsei being an anagram of his brother Asriel could just stem from a desire to fit in better by comparing his ideal self to someone he looked up to, and could also be a reference to Claus and Lucas from MOTHER 3.
So basically, Ralsei is Kris' goatsona.
So basically, Ralsei is Kris' goatsona.
Edit:
That could also explain what Ralsei and Kris are talking about when we're off seeing what Susie's up to in the prison. Kris knows something's up and Ralsei is explaining why he's able to appear to him while they're alone... Which might also imply he's trying to keep it a secret from the player because that's the only instance where the player "soul heart" is explicitly guiding another character and leaving Kris to his own devices before the ending.
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Just to add to this line of thinking, it's possible that Ralsei isn't really an anagram for Asriel, but instead just a different combination of Asgore and Toreils names.
Kris, being adopted, may see their own name as a reminder that they aren't really Asgore and Toirel's kid, because if they were their name would also be a combination and not something completely unrelated.
That would fit in with the theme of not being able to choose who you are. You can't pick Kris' name, just like they couldn't.
Kris, being adopted, may see their own name as a reminder that they aren't really Asgore and Toirel's kid, because if they were their name would also be a combination and not something completely unrelated.
That would fit in with the theme of not being able to choose who you are. You can't pick Kris' name, just like they couldn't.
Those are some interesting points, yeah. Whatever the case I think a big theme here is going to be how Kris is the only human living among the monsters. That's gonna breed all sorts of deep feelings and emotions, not living with anyone like yourself.
I kind of think the whole prophecy is fake so he can play some sort of game and role for himself
I kinda agree with Fox here, I don't think he can ever make another Undertale because he'll never be able to sneak up on the world again.
Not to say that he can't continue to make amazing games, he has clearly proven himself capable of that... But we all know what kind of game he is capable of making. There will be, fairly, expectations on his next release.
A caveat of success.
Not to say that he can't continue to make amazing games, he has clearly proven himself capable of that... But we all know what kind of game he is capable of making. There will be, fairly, expectations on his next release.
A caveat of success.
Welp, time to wait for years and hope I don't die in the meantime. Loving the amount of theories and discussion that's coming out from chapter 1, however.
He was involved with the Kickstarted Homestuck game "Hiveswap" (making some of the music for it) and the development for that was a huge mess. From what I recall, the Kickstarter money was largely swiped and used on another game by the development team that was brought in to make Hiveswap, and then it took years and years to assemble a hand-picked team to just release Episode 1 of that game. If Toby is recognizing the seriousness of making a much larger, more slick and well produced game that necessitates hiring and managing people effectively, I'd like to think he's trying not to have any of that nastiness repeat.
He was involved with the Kickstarted Homestuck game "Hiveswap" (making some of the music for it) and the development for that was a huge mess. From what I recall, the Kickstarter money was largely swiped and used on another game by the development team that was brought in to make Hiveswap, and then it took years and years to assemble a hand-picked team to just release Episode 1 of that game. If Toby is recognizing the seriousness of making a much larger, more slick and well produced game that necessitates hiring and managing people effectively, I'd like to think he's trying not to have any of that nastiness repeat.
also for some reason the development was briefly relocated to new york city before... that entire studio was laid off
and i think the game still didn't come out for like another year but i'm rusty on the timeline