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Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,641
Where to start. I would think that after spending the last 3-4 years developing content for Destiny 1, learning what people liked, what they didn't like, how people played and engaged the raid content, improvising, modifying and adapting their tools and technology, increasing resources and manpower across the board and improving their content generation pipeline, dropping last-gen console development (which we know caused significant issues with previous Raid encounters) etc... Bungie would be able to produce more higher quality content faster than before. Plus they went out of their way pre-release to talk about how one of their main goals with Destiny 2 was to not only to deliver a great game but to also deliver more higher quality content faster than before.

The result of this is Raid lairs.

Between Bungie, High Moon Studios, Vicarious Visions and Activision there are over 1,000 people working on the Destiny franchise, I don't think it's out of the realm of reality to think there's enough resources on tap to make new Raids with each expansion.

The fact that Destiny 2 comes with one raid, and that each expansion for two years in a row has only come with one raid, should be evidence enough that making a raid is a huge undertaking. More importantly, it's one that needs a unified vision and direction. I'd say very little of game development can be consistently solved by throwing more and more people at the problem, otherwise all of the Assassin's Creed games would be masterpieces. There is a raid team, but they probably design mechanics. There is no way that multiple devs are being forced to cooperate across multiple time zones just to create new raids. Quite frankly, that's not worth the investment.

On top of that Bungie having a better understanding of what Destiny is this time around, and what type of content players are expecting would be planning each piece of DLC and Expansion well in advance this time around. TDB was a mess because it was rebooted and scrapped together in 9 weeks, that sucks and but I expect them to learn from their mistakes and actively try and do better.

Raid Lairs sounds exactly like the culmination of this.

Now we find out that Curse of Osiris didn't even start full-on development until after Destiny 2 launched.

That does not mean it was not planned like this. Do you really think they had a Mercury raid ready, and then scrapped it?
 

Zereta

Member
Oct 26, 2017
317
Game development is hard, guys. You can tell how Raid lairs are a solution to content vs time problem. There is no winning with something like this. Raid Lairs seem like an awesome compromise.

It's completely different encounters and boss. It' basically a new raid. It's not even using the same rooms as OG Leviathan. Plus CoO is also introducing its own endgame activity.

My one real criticism about what we know about CoO so far is that Infinite Forest, whatever that activity is, is a 3 man activity. We need more 6 man stuff that isn't the raid/raid-related.
 

GutZ31

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56
Game development is hard, guys. You can tell how Raid lairs are a solution to content vs time problem. There is no winning with something like this. Raid Lairs seem like an awesome compromise.

It's completely different encounters and boss. It' basically a new raid. It's not even using the same rooms as OG Leviathan. Plus CoO is also introducing its own endgame activity.

My one real criticism about what we know about CoO so far is that Infinite Forest, whatever that activity is, is a 3 man activity. We need more 6 man stuff that isn't the raid/raid-related.
Completely agree.
I understand they wanted to try and tailor the game to be more team focused, but pvp 4v4 end up being really, really bad for solo players.
 

Deleted member 13131

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
618
Is there an archive of the stream from yesterday? I couldn't watch it due to work and am just now getting caught up.

Edit: and right on cue there's the BWU with the archive.
 
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v1perz53

Member
Oct 25, 2017
276
More 6 player content would be fine (I personally rarely do it but I'm glad for people to get more of what they want), but I also wish there was some 4 man content. Of things in this game you generally have a set "team" for, there is the raid and there is trials. Always feels shitty leaving out one person from our trials team every time we do any non-raid PvE activity, especially things like flashpoint. "Hey we're gonna go do this activity with the 3 of us and 10 blueberries, sorry you can't come though go hang out in your own instance".

Though I do also wish there was some way to make a LFR style matchmaking system for the raid, which simplifies mechanics, makes them more clear for matchmade groups, and gives less/worse/different loot but lets people who can't do normal raids at least see the cool looking areas and experience the story of the raid.
 
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-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
Game development is hard, guys. You can tell how Raid lairs are a solution to content vs time problem. There is no winning with something like this. Raid Lairs seem like an awesome compromise.

It's completely different encounters and boss. It' basically a new raid. It's not even using the same rooms as OG Leviathan. Plus CoO is also introducing its own endgame activity.

My one real criticism about what we know about CoO so far is that Infinite Forest, whatever that activity is, is a 3 man activity. We need more 6 man stuff that isn't the raid/raid-related.

Between three studios (plus Activision), with as many people as they have, after all the money they've made, after so much mismanagement for so many years and knowing what the community expectations are, it's really difficult to feel sorry for them or keep making excuses.

I'm sure the Leviathan raid lairs will be okay. But that's just it. I don't want "okay". I don't want "meh, good enough" I'm not paying and waiting as much as I am just to see Bungie barely get by and drag their feet for another three years. They're not the little 20 man, rag tag team anymore. At the the same I don't expect huge content drops every month.

I just expect new stuff to do every once in a while, that isn't re-skinned, recycled. Stuff that has meaningful context, purpose and just isn't a flash in a pan within a vacuum. Something with long term value, and not something I'll rush through and quickly forget.

The overall issue is that Bungie has designed the game for the short term consumer, not for those who want longevity. They think it's okay to be done with the game and not chase anything. To them, they believe it causes too much stress and anxiety. But that's what a lot of people want. There should always be another carrot on a stick somewhere.

I love the game. I love the community, but goddamn it's so frustrating watching a company not understand the potential their game has and cater to those who ultimately don't have any intentions on being invested in the long term.
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,256
anyone going to level an alt during clarion call want to knock it out? looking to do it tomorrow night est or saturday sometime
 

v1perz53

Member
Oct 25, 2017
276
speaking of 6 player content, I want 6 player Crucible back

I loved 6 player crucible, was crushed when it was removed. That said, I can't imagine how much worse PvP would be in this game if they just enabled 6 player. The maps being this small, the time to kill being as long as it is, would be the same teamshot meta instead with 6 people, so you die literally 0.1 seconds after peeking in any situation where your team isn't already aimed down the lane. 6v6 worked in D1 in a large part because shotguns and snipers were great counters to teamshooting lanes, and grenades and supers being up more frequently also spread enemy teams out.

I want more than anything to get the feel of D1 PvP back, but I do believe that if they brought back 6v6 without any other changes, it would make things much worse instead of better. I would LOVE them adding 6v6 modes in the future though on bigger maps with specific objectives that force teams to split up to win, that would be great. Or just bring back Rift hah.
 

Deleted member 27751

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,997
You would think they'd use PC grabs of armour and weapons to feature on the front page, because jesus does the anti-aliasing look bad. Also we now apparently have an Osiris cinematic in travel map?
 

OneEyeTwoHead

Member
Oct 28, 2017
29
Man getting constant baboon errors and "Attemping to contact Destiny 2 servers" over and over again while I'm in the middle of playing. Loading from zone to zone (I do PEs a lot) is slower than ever today. Driving me nuts.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,329
Man getting constant baboon errors and "Attemping to contact Destiny 2 servers" over and over again while I'm in the middle of playing. Loading from zone to zone (I do PEs a lot) is slower than ever today. Driving me nuts.

The game has been nothing short of a disaster today trying to do anything really. Honestly for as well and as stable as the"Beta" seemed on PC it really has been just one problem after another since launch.
 

irishonion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,232
Sweet, have not PvP much, been saving up for iron banner, perfect week for me next week. Last time iron banner was active only had time to get 4-5 engrams. Want full armor set for Warlock.
 

OneEyeTwoHead

Member
Oct 28, 2017
29
The game has been nothing short of a disaster today trying to do anything really. Honestly for as well and as stable as the"Beta" seemed on PC it really has been just one problem after another since launch.

Yeah getting constant Baboon errors now. Nothing has changed on my end in terms of network connectivity. I popped a fire-team medal when I started doing my daily PE farm for fun and I've barely gotten like 10 done due to the constant disconnects.

Even tried going to the European servers to see if it made a difference but nope, still getting Baboon.
 

Kadey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,672
Southeastern PA
The number of players isn't really the problem. Had a bunch of 4 on 4s and 5 on 5s in D1 because of weird matchmaking and it was still super fun. Problem is combination of higher ttk, maps that a lot more maze like and weapon loadout/inferior weapons. I prefer the super fast pace and on the fly reactions of D1. Adding or subtracting the number of players isn't going to change much when the mechanics and fundamentals are what they are.
 

v1perz53

Member
Oct 25, 2017
276
One thing grinding for my Curtain Call has showed me over the past 2 weeks is that strike challenges are a HUGE missed opportunity. The fact that the only options for challenges are "kill 100 with X element" rotating between the 3, "kill enemies after using this subclass ability" also rotating between 3 and one other random kill type is so mediocre. We have 6 subclass trees, why do the strike challenges only ever require 3 of them, and why is it always the same exact challenge for that subclass tree? Why is one challenge always elemental kills? Could've been a cool feature but instead it is repetitive and unrewarding, which I guess is par for the course.
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,256
this game gave me everything in a week, i literally have no raid sets/exotics anything left to get on my hunter, so its shelved, time for warlock
technically its been like this since mid week 2 pc release but ive been super lazy about leveling my warlock

i guess being too lucky in this game is bad, because i was really lucky
 

Ruthless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,858
Melbourne, Australia
Xur:

hard light
lucky raspberry
synthoceps
karnstein armlets

JPEG_20171117_200125.jpg
 

DekuBleep

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,712
Finally something I need from Xur, lucky raspberry.

No the only exotic I don't have is the best one: Nighthawk
 

Interficium

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,569
That being said I think Bungie really need to step up their communication with the community, they say the community is the best part of the game and I see great feedback posted here, on Reddit and occasionally on B.net but they need to have more clear, coherent and straightforward communication on a regular basis. Then again it's easy to sit here and say that, from their perspective there's a 100,000 people all screaming about a 1000 different things. To take all the feedback, sort it all out, present it to the team, prioritize what needs fixing first, fix said issue and then verify it all must be an exhausting process that takes up a lot of time.

The community has shown they don't really want more clear, coherent, and straightforward communication, only to be told what they want to hear. When Bungie communicates something that isn't what the community wants to hear, like why the old heavy ammo bug took a long time to fix, the community says "they're LYING!"

If you want to be spoken to like an adult, you have to prove yourself capable of acting like one.
 

DekuBleep

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,712
The community has shown they don't really want more clear, coherent, and straightforward communication, only to be told what they want to hear. When Bungie communicates something that isn't what the community wants to hear, like why the old heavy ammo bug took a long time to fix, the community says "they're LYING!"

If you want to be spoken to like an adult, you have to prove yourself capable of acting like one.

Well that is a bad example because in that case they were lying. The reason the heavy ammo bug took so long to fix (in spite of the technical difficulties) was because there were like two people on the live team at that time. Bungie only admitted how small the live team was after they introduced micro transactions and claimed to be increasing the size of the live team after TTK launched.
 

BlacJack

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,021
Hey guys, is there a certain night for the raid on PC Era Clan? I have done it a few times but would prefer to not use the Bungie site to find randoms anymore if at all possible.
 

Amibguous Cad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,033
Hey guys, is there a certain night for the raid on PC Era Clan? I have done it a few times but would prefer to not use the Bungie site to find randoms anymore if at all possible.

If you wanna play with Resetters, join the Discord. The PS4 LFG channel is still pretty active, and I have to imagine the PC version is moreso. You can find an invite in the OP, I think (if it's expired, PM the OP).
 

Barrow Roll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
525
So how exactly does the 300 PL vendor engram thing work? I'm 305, and I've checked every vendor every half hour for the past hour and a half and not a single one of my stored engrams are PL 300. Not even their weapons like Drang, Mida Mini, or Man O War. Is there some other requirement? I haven't accepted my Man O War to complete that quest yet, if that makes any difference whatsoever.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,855
Sheffield, UK
So how exactly does the 300 PL vendor engram thing work? I'm 305, and I've checked every vendor every half hour for the past hour and a half and not a single one of my stored engrams are PL 300. Not even their weapons like Drang, Mida Mini, or Man O War. Is there some other requirement? I haven't accepted my Man O War to complete that quest yet, if that makes any difference whatsoever.
It's totally random, so you might just have picked a bad time for all vendors. I don't have the patience to run around all the vendors, I just follow VendorEngrams on Twitter and pick stuff up when they tweet. You can also check https://vendorengrams.xyz

You'll miss some if you do it that way, because VendorEngrams relies on users reporting the power levels (and fewer people are playing than they were a few weeks ago when I was desperate for 300 PL stuff, so the reports are less frequent), but it means you don't waste tons of time flying around.
 

Barrow Roll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
525
It's totally random, so you might just have picked a bad time for all vendors. I don't have the patience to run around all the vendors, I just follow VendorEngrams on Twitter and pick stuff up when they tweet. You can also check https://vendorengrams.xyz

You'll miss some if you do it that way, because VendorEngrams relies on users reporting the power levels (and fewer people are playing than they were a few weeks ago when I was desperate for 300 PL stuff, so the reports are less frequent), but it means you don't waste tons of time flying around.
Gotcha. So there's no guarantee that there will be a vendor selling 300 PL gear every half hour, just that they might? Do I have that right?
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Xur redeemed!
Hardlight, finally and Lucky Rasberry are now mine.

Sinthoceps are pretty good and I am a fan of Karnstein Armlets.

a good Xur day today
 

TheLetdown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,812
I've had like 3 Lucky Raspberries. Bummer week.

I've also decided I'm not going to be buying the non-hunter stuff. I don't think I'll be doing an alt since I've never really been one to do those but I've always been one to store shit as if I was.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,855
Sheffield, UK
I've had like 3 Lucky Raspberries. Bummer week.

I've also decided I'm not going to be buying the non-hunter stuff. I don't think I'll be doing an alt since I've never really been one to do those but I've always been one to store shit as if I was.
You might as well buy it just to unlock it in collections, in case you ever change your mind. No need to store exotics.
 

TheLetdown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,812
You might as well buy it just to unlock it in collections, in case you ever change your mind. No need to store exotics.

That's what I was doing, since I have a good chunk of shards and they come at a decent rate.

But if I call it here, I'll be saving 50 shards a week.

Not much but not nothing, either.
 

Slythe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
534
Will Iron Banner basically be unplayable if I am ~260 power level? I might get to 270 by the time it rolls around but I am still relatively new and I am envisioning it being a rather punishing experience at my current level.
 

super-famicom

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
25,246
Will Iron Banner basically be unplayable if I am ~260 power level? I might get to 270 by the time it rolls around but I am still relatively new and I am envisioning it being a rather punishing experience at my current level.

Power levels didn't actually mean anything in last month's Iron Banner. It was basically just regular Crucible. I don't know why Bungie did it that way.
 

BigJeffery

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,338
Is there going to be any point in doing Heroic Strikes if you're already 300+ on everyone? Seems weird to add them in now after people have been running the raid for over a month.