Not a chance in hell spidey 2 isn't PS5 exclusive.
Then again I also said not a chance hellPS5 has 3CU but here we are so you probably shouldn't take any chance in hell statement I make seriously.
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Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition
- Thread starter Equanimity
- Start date
Then again I also said not a chance hellPS5 has 3CU but here we are so you probably shouldn't take any chance in hell statement I make seriously.
Yeah.... I got an Amstrad CPC6128 when my buds were enjoying the C64.
Target Renegade wasn't half bad though...
Take a couple of minutes to read this. A very interesting and insightful post on both consoles and especially some great sounding things on how ssd's will really have an enormous impact: https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/fmhh7d/ps5_and_xbox_series_x_the_most_innovative_console/
Which Ronaldo we talkin bout here? Fat Ronaldo? Or Portugal Ronaldo?
If any large scale games such as Horizon 2, Spidey 2 or GoW 2 come out on PS4 as well my interest would pretty much vanish. The Jaguar CPU, a mechanical HDD and 5GB of RAM would hold them back like nothing else. It'd be a terrible decision.
I only expect one of those at most in the first year and all three will sell well over the life of the console regardless. Launch period exclusives may not be good money makers but they show off the platform which in turn brings people into the platform which in turn means more money from services and more buyers for future releases.
I only expect one of those at most in the first year and all three will sell well over the life of the console regardless. Launch period exclusives may not be good money makers but they show off the platform which in turn brings people into the platform which in turn means more money from services and more buyers for future releases.
it's even smaller than the gap between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. I can see many games going with a dynamic resolution and hitting 4K most of the time on both next-gen consoles.
Sure. The results are even better with higher resolutions and framerates.
He seems very knowledgeable but I would guess not because no mention of being one. Seems he's a bit more excited about PS5 though.
that's cool. It feels like a smart use of system resources. Maybe they could offer different settings with a performance CBR mode and then native 4K for the discerning gamer
I don't care if he's a dev or not...he wrote this:
Now i want this. If the SSD from the PS5 allows this, i'm so in. Imagine that world, with a generational gap and even more freedom, bigger draw distance, etc. Jesus...the 1st party titles in this will be incredible!
Solid read. A lot of it is similar to many of the posts and details shared on Era, but it's nice to have so much of it summarised in one post, especially about the variable clocks, how SSD's could impact game design etc.
Synopsis:
PS5 is the slightly lower powered "ROM-cartridge-like" system
XSX is the slightly higher powered "fast loading" system
Nice find, thanks for sharing; especially when we all thirsty for more info.
I'm sure it would be incredible.
Open world games have managed flying before. Even Red Dead Redemption 2, which has incredible graphics, has a brief flying sequence and that's supported only by a 100MB/s hard drive. GTA 5 had flying an entire generation ago (the scale of that game still blows my mind). A drive that's 20 to 50 times faster will surely open up new possibilities. But I'm not convinced flying couldn't be done without an SSD. For sure it's easier with one.
Its a bit disingenuous to claim its 10.2 when its due to variable frequencies at this point in time. Hopefully it stays at peak levels, but we really have no evidence yet and don't know for sure how developers will utilize this design. I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt, but to claim we won't notice a difference seems like jumping to conclusions. People buy GPU's that are 2 teraflop advantages over another model. What would be the point in buying a 2080 Super if a 2070 Super was going to do the same thing? Granted, you probably wouldn't go out of your way to upgrade between these models, but if you were building from scratch, its still a difference.
Also, why do we assume that games are going to run rock solid on PS5 and XBox Series X when they haven't run rock solid on PS4 and XBox One? Yes the hardware improvements are substantial, but developers will always push the limits to wow the gamer. So the idea that games are just going to run flawless to truly peak the variable frequencies on the PS5 seems like a faith-based claim rather than evidence-based.
Firstly, lol. Secondly, no, you're correct, Spider-Man 2 will be a PS5 exclusive. Mark Cerny has constantly held the first game up as the front-line example of how HDDs negatively affect games, that's not going to be followed with a confirmation of Spider-Man 2 for PS4.
Not to mention that if it was a PS4 game, wouldn't it have been announced already? Sony hasn't announced a major AAA PS4 exclusive since Ghost of Tsushima - I'm actually pretty sure that's going to be the last one.
I'm hoping we see 4K checkerboard paired with 60fps instead of 4K 30, where possible. I know some devs will want to push the IQ, but I really dont think most people will be able to tell. Best solution would be maybe an option for checkerboard and a separate 30fps cap option in the menus, that would be easiest to "boost" on a PS5 Pro
So I see discussion didn't move a bit since reveal. Take a break people, go play animal crossing.
Spidey is also very slow because of this.
It will be awesome. We are not ready.
It will yes. Decimal Engine can't hold up when you used vehicle in Death Stranding, and they are slow.
Spidey is also very slow because of this.
It will be awesome. We are not ready.
This was a great read. Thanks for it!
I can't wait to send Cerny my nudes.
yeah I would like something like that. Or whatever they can do with the resources they could save
This is my take on the "revolutionary gameplay possibilities of SSD".
IMO everything can already be done, but it requires a compromise of asset quality below absolute best. It's akin to the 30/60fps choice devs frequently make.
It's not only asset quality but also loading , QOL and other factors.
Plus just because something done on another game don't mean much if it can't be done on the game i playing .
Anyone can build a game to fit entirely in RAM if they want to. It's just hard to compete in a market with visuals reduced to that level against all the other games that don't. The whole point is they don't have to choose one of the other anymore...
Yeah, it's a marketing/artistic choice. Not because things weren't possible. So not revolutionary, at least not in gameplay terms.
After thinking about it, third parties might be able to take advantage of the ssd well enough. Sony's studios will push it to the breaking point but third parties may be able to tune settings around it that make notable improvements. You have state of the art io speed with no particular work required to get it. There's no way to know until games come out but i suspect the raw speed must have at least a few straightforward benefits.
The variable clocks part has some problems, I think. He says that the system will run at the same temp and power all the time, but I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. Sony's solution is to make the max power/temp predictable, but not constant. It still feels to me that no one, not even Digital Foundry or other technical readers, has really developed a fully justified theory of what's going on with this choice.
But feelings aren't a reliable guide to the truth. I should think through it more deeply and see if anything occurs to me. I may be assuming something that isn't there.
Most things are possible if you lower the bar far enough. The difference now is that they're actually gonna happen.
Going from having to choose between the two and no longer having to choose between the two is very much a revolution. Revolutions can involve commercial realities, too. Besides, you can't as easily divorce gameplay from other elements of what makes up an experience as neatly as you are attempting to. The effect gameplay has to impart an emotional impact can rest in part on the verisimilitude of the graphics as well.
Yep and from a dev stand point there also much more that comes with it.
And it's a bit disingenuous of you to just completely ignore everything Mark Cerny said about the GPU/CPU frequencies. He very clearly stated that both the GPU and CPU would spend most of their time at the max frequencies he quoted, and would only clock down a couple of % points in worst case scenarios. It's frustrating seeing people take that part of the presentation out of context and be deliberately misleading like you're doing.
You talk as if budget isn't a thing. That 200$ difference between a 2070S and a 2080S is a lot of money to many people. The price delta between the two consoles will play a bigger role than 10.2 vs 12 which most people outside of this forum doesn't even care about.
Because the 8C Jaguar CPUs were already considered weak and outdated back in 2013 and was a huge bottleneck for games? Even a lower tier intel 4 core processor paired with a cheap GPU can run the same PS4/One games at more than twice the console framerates. Whereas the CPUs in the PS5/XSeX are comparable to current med/high end desktop processors and are 8C/16T. If you can't see why people are excited for the new CPUs and why they expect games to be more solid in performance....then sorry I can't help here.
While somewhat true, I don't accept that it depends on the best of the best graphics.
Would wrapping up Drakes saga in UC4 have had less impact with PS3 quality graphics? IMO, no. But TLOU with cartoony Mario and Peach wouldn't have worked.
Yes but Doom Eternal use it not only for one effect and Gears 5 use it too during gameplay. For example Ryse use it during many cutscene but I expect to see it a lot during gameplay sequence.
And much more complex effect than now for example crazy cloth animation on NPC like Adam.
After Texture, geometry, tons of animation and sound, they will have capacity to do more stuff and the next step is to baked stuff impossible to do realtime and Microsoft talk about baking BVH too. We can do like now too but with better quality with a mix of baked GI and RT GI. I expect baked fluid simulation, complex clothes simulation for NPC for example.
One crazy things about SSD is it will make life easier for dev this is the reason James Cooper told it has the power to reduce crunch a lot because currently devs right against streaming limit. For example the Fisk Tower exterior/interior sequence took month to create but it will be something done probably in days now. I think the limit will be the size of game.
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Based on cerny's explanation it's quite clear that the power consumption of the system remains constant while the temperature may vary (but considering how the system works it shouldn't vary too much). He explicitly states that the power consumption remains constant and that they looked at using the temperature to decide the clock but decided against that because of too many variables, instead they clock the system based on the "activities of the CPU and the GPU".
if you read Amstrad Action reviews or did their type-in games, you're welcome. That was my first jerb. Staff Writer.
The mystery about the power limit. This is so complicated. As far as i can understand from what cerny himself said... after days of thinking/reading about it...
-There are certain workloads that can take lots of power. Not neccessarily when you're pushing the best graphics, but specific situations. Thats what the horizon map story was about.
-it downclocks not with heat, but with some kind of refference having to do with what amount of power certain workloads would draw. If both cpu and gpu get in a situation where they are doing some particularly power hungry thing, the system will know to downclock before it ever results in extra power draw=heat.
-He called it "deterministic". I would imagine your devkit/sdk would be telling you when you are going to hit these "worst case" workloads so you can deal with it:either planning for that small downclock (maybe with the ability to lock it down?) , or trying to ease up whatever is making it draw a bunch of power.
-the gpu and cpu should be able to run full clocks as long as they arent summing to more power draw than the limit? Which is most the time? I think?
-they can spec their psu and cooler riiiiight up to that power limit. Maybe save 15 bucks.
Thus i conclude all this is about saving maybe 15 bucks.
-There are certain workloads that can take lots of power. Not neccessarily when you're pushing the best graphics, but specific situations. Thats what the horizon map story was about.
-it downclocks not with heat, but with some kind of refference having to do with what amount of power certain workloads would draw. If both cpu and gpu get in a situation where they are doing some particularly power hungry thing, the system will know to downclock before it ever results in extra power draw=heat.
-He called it "deterministic". I would imagine your devkit/sdk would be telling you when you are going to hit these "worst case" workloads so you can deal with it:either planning for that small downclock (maybe with the ability to lock it down?) , or trying to ease up whatever is making it draw a bunch of power.
-the gpu and cpu should be able to run full clocks as long as they arent summing to more power draw than the limit? Which is most the time? I think?
-they can spec their psu and cooler riiiiight up to that power limit. Maybe save 15 bucks.
Thus i conclude all this is about saving maybe 15 bucks.
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It sounded like criticism of the PS4 Pro's fan noise was a big motivating factor too, given some of the things Cerny said.
From what I understand, the power supplied is constant or there is no max power because it already is at max power all the time, so the resulting temperatures are predictable.
I think the power could drop down just fine. They just have a strict max cutoff, where normally you just let the power fly and let the fan kick up to make up for the heat.
I think thats what he meant by constant and predictable: that it does have a hard max on power draw and thats whats constant about it. Normally, you have no max power limit. It'll go up to sustain clocks untill the fan can't keep up and the console shuts down from a combination of its own waste heat and ambient heat.
I THINK lol.
Variable clocks really did work to trigger those Cerny is a liar claims back though the stratosphere.
About power dissipation: certain workloads run very efficiently, and others do not. Clocks will drop for inefficient workloads and remain fast for efficient workloads.
Remember that the efficiency is determined by how much of the power drawn is dissipated as heat vs how much goes into the power delivered to the load.
This is how you can achieve a constant thermal envelope.
About power dissipation: certain workloads run very efficiently, and others do not. Clocks will drop for inefficient workloads and remain fast for efficient workloads.
Remember that the efficiency is determined by how much of the power drawn is dissipated as heat vs how much goes into the power delivered to the load.
This is how you can achieve a constant thermal envelope.
And racing games, flight games, and anything fast moving.
I understood this clear as day when Cerny was explaining it, why is it so difficult for people to understand?
After seeing RE3R, I hope CBR continues to be a thing next-gen.
I thought so too but apparently only the CPU or the GPU will run at full clock even in games that are not the so called worst case game. You have to choose a CPU or GPU priority and the non prioritized component drops clocks wildly.
Going by how cerny said that both clocks are likely to stay at the cap or near it at most of the time, so I am pretty sure that the clocks will not "drop wildly". We are unlikely to see much more than 50mhz drop to the GPU from what I understand, and the same is probably true for the CPU.