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Lonewulfeus

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,075
Since the defense force continues to use the dailybeast talking points from 2014 I'm gonna quote and post the full article refuting the misinformation it spread.

Slate.com said:
No. 1: The sexual-abuse allegations did not happen in the midst of a custody battle.

In his Daily Beast piece, Weide refers to "Mia [Farrow]'s accusation—used during their custody battle for their three shared children—that Woody molested their 7-year-old adopted daughter Dylan." He also suggests it's unlikely that Allen would have molested Dylan "in the middle of custody and support negotiations, during which Woody needed to be on his best behavior." Many of Allen's defenders have floated the possibility that Mia Farrow concocted the allegations to use as leverage in the custody battle; Steve Kroft suggests just this scenario in the introduction to a 1992 60 Minutes interview with Allen. In that segment, Allen tells Kroft that it would have been "illogical" to molest Dylan "at the height of a very bitter, acrimonious custody fight."

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The problem with this line of reasoning is that Dylan Farrow's allegations did not emerge in the midst of a custody battle. According to Phoebe Hoban's 1992 New York magazine story, as of early August 1992—eight months after Mia Farrow had discovered Allen's sexual relationship with her daughter Soon-Yi Previn—Allen had been "prepared to sign a 30-page document that virtually precluded his seeing the children he doted on without a chaperone." Then, on Aug. 4, 1992, Dylan told her mother that Woody Allen had sexually assaulted her in Mia's Connecticut home. At that point, Mia and Dylan went to Dylan's pediatrician, who reported the allegations to authorities. Allen did not sue for custody of Dylan and her two brothers, Moses and Ronan, until Aug. 13, 1992, a week after he was informed of Dylan's accusations.

In a June 1993 decision, Acting Justice Elliot Wilk of the New York State Supreme Court found "no credible evidence to support Mr. Allen's contention that Ms. Farrow coached Dylan or that Ms. Farrow acted upon a desire for revenge against him for seducing Soon-Yi. Mr. Allen's resort to the stereotypical 'woman scorned' defense is an injudicious attempt to divert attention from his failure to act as a responsible parent and adult."

No. 2: The Connecticut state's attorney stated that he had probable cause to bring charges against Allen.

Weide writes that Allen "was never charged with a crime, since investigative authorities never found credible evidence to support Mia's (and Dylan's) claim." In fact, the Litchfield, Conn., state's attorney, Frank Maco, in consultation with Mia Farrow, decided in September 1993 not to press criminal charges, despite having "probable cause," in the belief that a trial would further traumatize Dylan. At that point, Allen had already been denied not only custody but any visitation rights—supervised or unsupervised—with Dylan, per Wilk's decision in June of that year. (As the New York Times pointed out at the time, "Mr. Maco's remarks about the case were criticized by some legal scholars, who said it was an unfair attempt to have it both ways by claiming victory without taking the case to trial." Maco was later rebuked by a state Grievance Councilfor his actions, though it did not find that Maco had violated any provision of Connecticut's code of conduct for lawyers.)

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No. 3: Dylan Farrow's testimony was not marred by "inconsistencies."

"There were problems with inconsistencies" in Dylan's narrative, Weide writes. On Aug. 4, when a physician asked Dylan where her father had touched her that day, she pointed to her shoulder; she explained to her mother later the same day that she was embarrassed to talk about her private parts. After that first doctor's visit, however, her story remained consistent, detailed, and specific.

No. 4: The unsuspicious nanny was outnumbered.

Weide makes a lot out of a deposition by a nanny in Allen's employ, Monica Thompson, who stated "that she was pressured by Farrow to support the molestation charges," and that another nanny, Kristie Groteke, had told her that she "did not have Dylan out of her sight for longer than five minutes." Weide does not mention that Groteke herself testified that she lost track of both Dylan and Allen for 15 to 20 minutes on Aug. 4. Weide does not mention the testimony of babysitter Alison Stickland, who, on Aug. 4, witnessed Allen "kneeling in front of Dylan with his head in her lap" (a detail recounted in Dylan's open letter). Weide does not mention that Sophie Berge, a tutor, later noticed that Dylan was not wearing underwear.


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No. 5: The head of the Yale team investigating the allegations never spoke to Dylan Farrow.

Weide quotes at length from a sworn deposition by John Leventhal, the pediatrician who led the Yale–New Haven Hospital Child Sexual Abuse Clinic's investigation of the allegations. Leventhal's deposition hypothesized either that "these were statements made by an emotionally disturbed child and then became fixed in her mind" or "that she was coached or influenced by her mother." But Leventhal himself never interviewed Dylan Farrow, nor did he interview her mother or any of the child care workers present at Mia Farrow's home on Aug. 4, 1992. Dylan was interviewed nine times over a six-month period by Julia Hamilton, who had a Ph.D. in social work, and Jennifer Sawyer, who had a master's degree in social work. Neither Hamilton nor Sawyer would testify at trial, and Leventhal would only testify via deposition; as Weide points out, they also destroyed their notes on the investigation. (Diane Schetky, a professor of psychiatry and past editor of the Clinical Handbook of Child Psychiatry and the Law, itemized other irregularities in the Yale investigation in this 1997 Connecticut Magazine piece.)

In his 1993 state Supreme Court decision, Wilk found that testimony "proves that Mr. Allen's behavior toward Dylan was grossly inappropriate and that measures must be taken to protect her." In May 1994, the Appellate Division of the state Supreme Court cited a "clear consensus" among psychiatric experts that Allen's "interest in Dylan was abnormally intense."

My colleague Dahlia Lithwick wisely cautions against trying this case again in the court of public opinion. But it's also worth remembering that—no matter how Robert Weide wants to spin things—Woody Allen did not fare well at all when actual courts of law looked at the facts.

Source:
http://amp.slate.com/articles/life/..._digging_deeper_into_misleading_coverage.html
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
The bolded is NOT TRUE. This is misinformation, as far as I've read on the subject. Leventhal DID examine Dylan, but he did not interrogate her, and wasn't there when she was questioned by the social workers. The social workers weren't required to testify, they handed in their data and their thoughts on the matter. Leventhal said, based on his physical examination, that she was not molested or assaulted sexually, and based on the data from the social workers and their line of questioning, he said his belief was that she was being coached to tell a story.

I'm not entirely sure what a pediatrician would be able to conclude one way or the other anyway.
 

Gunny T Highway

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,137
Canada
I never really like his movies, but I believe her. Woody Allen always seemed kind of shady to me. I never knew about that whole marriage thing that is kind of fucked up.
 

see5harp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,435
Except all of the people said "molested and married his step daughter" were talking about Soon Yi.
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
I'm not entirely sure what a pediatrician would be able to conclude one way or the other anyway.
I'm not sure, but the social workers chose to have him do a physical evaluation on her for their report, and he was asked to testify with regards to his examination, so regardless, the bolded was not true.
 

Deleted member 21380

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
528
Germany
I mean he basically married his daughter so dude's a perv even if you don't believe Dylan so don't know what the defender's really have to stand on here.

He started dating Mia Farrow in 1979 when her daughter (Soon-Yi) was 9 years old. He later married Mia Farrow. While married to Mia Farrow, when Soon-Yi was in her late teens/early 20's, Allen began a sexual relationship with her. Eventually he married her.

Think about if you dated a woman who had a 9 year old kid, you helped raise that child and then eventually began to have a sexual relationship with them. Using the excuse that they were an adult when the relationship began doesn't cut it. Add in the allegations from Dylan and there's a chance he could have abused Soon-Yi as a child too. The guy is just way too fucked up to get the kind of support he does.

He didn't marry his daughter. He didn't help raise that child. They had no contact until she was 19.
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Since the defense force continues to use the dailybeast talking points from 2014 I'm gonna quote and post the full article refuting the misinformation it spread.
The same article that says outright that it's a bad idea to try to settle this in the court of public opinion because of how fucking nebulous the whole affair is?
His dad is Frank Sinatra though.
He refuses to acknowledge it, and refuses to take a DNA test, because he's more interested in continuing to condemn Woody. Mia has more or less said outright that this is the case.
 

Lonewulfeus

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,075
The same article that says outright that it's a bad idea to try to settle this in the court of public opinion because of how fucking nebulous the whole affair is?

He refuses to acknowledge it, and refuses to take a DNA test, because he's more interested in continuing to condemn Woody. Mia has more or less said outright that this is the case.

Cherry picking, no surprise there
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
I think it's odd that there are no other accusations against Allen from other children. If he was into 7 year olds ... that's a big difference from a Hollywood celebrity dating a 19/20 year old. If that's what he was into it just strikes me as really odd that there is no other allegations from any one else in that age range against Allen in what 30 years now?

Coupled with the older brother saying he's seen in person his sister being coached/coerced by their mother to make up stories against Allen.

To me people don't like his relationship with Soon-Yi, but that is very different from what is being alleged.
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,766
Canada
Of course you do. You and everyone else that says some form of "Every fucking dork that stuck their neck out to defend Woody Allen in the other thread, step right up!" cares way too much about the opinions of others. None of us knows what happened. Judging someone else for their clueless opinion about something you're also clueless about is messed up. You're not wrong to reach your conclusion. Nor are they.
I really don't. It's second hand embarassment seeing people stan this hard for a rich old white dude who married his ex's daughter, has a fascination with young girls, and was accused of molesting a kid.
 

Lonewulfeus

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,075
He didn't marry his daughter. He didn't help raise that child. They had no contact until she was 19.

xmuojnA.gif
 

Darkstar0155

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,176
I mean he basically married his daughter so dude's a perv even if you don't believe Dylan so don't know what the defender's really have to stand on here.

He started dating Mia Farrow in 1979 when her daughter (Soon-Yi) was 9 years old. He later married Mia Farrow. While married to Mia Farrow, when Soon-Yi was in her late teens/early 20's, Allen began a sexual relationship with her. Eventually he married her.

Think about if you dated a woman who had a 9 year old kid, you helped raise that child and then eventually began to have a sexual relationship with them. Using the excuse that they were an adult when the relationship began doesn't cut it. Add in the allegations from Dylan and there's a chance he could have abused Soon-Yi as a child too. The guy is just way too fucked up to get the kind of support he does.
I mean, you basically wrote a few paragraphs that completely aren't true. Maybe YOU should do some research before you make a judgment call.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
I think it's odd that there are no other accusations against Allen from other children. If he was into 7 year olds ... that's a big difference from a Hollywood celebrity dating a 19/20 year old. If that's what he was into it just strikes me as really odd that there is no other allegations from any one else in that age range against Allen in what 30 years now?

Coupled with the older brother saying he's seen in person his sister being coached/coerced by their mother to make up stories against Allen.

To me people don't like his relationship with Soon-Yi, but that is very different from is being alleged.
Yeah. It's definitely not normal and it's not a secret that he's into younger girls (he makes and stars in movies about that subject), but molesting children is a really extraordinary claim when there's no other reports of him doing anything like that. Even Roman Polanski I think had several accusations, although the most famous one is pretty evident that he did it.
 

Br3wnor

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,982
I fucked up, edited the post.

Guy still married the adopted daughter of his long term GF.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Yeah. It's definitely not normal and it's not a secret that he's into younger girls (he makes and stars in movies about that subject), but molesting children is a really extraordinary claim when there's no other reports of him doing anything like that. Even Roman Polanski I think had several accusations, although the most famous one is pretty evident that he did it.

Yeah people are conflating two different things here, what Dylan is alleging is very different from trying to ty things to "well Soon Yi, so he must be guilty".

Soon Yi was a 19/20 year old woman, that is not at all the same thing.

I find it very odd that there is zero allegations from any one else against Allen. Factor in you have an older brother who is saying he's witnessed flat out his mother coaching/coercing his sister into saying these types of things ...

I think at minimum perhaps some people need to look at both sides of the story here. I don't even like his films that much.
 

cartographer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,032
The bolded is NOT TRUE. This is misinformation, as far as I've read on the subject. Leventhal DID examine Dylan, but he did not interrogate her, and wasn't there when she was questioned by the social workers. The social workers weren't required to testify, they handed in their data and their thoughts on the matter. Leventhal said, based on his physical examination, that she was not molested or assaulted sexually, and based on the data from the social workers and their line of questioning, he said his belief was that she was being coached to tell a story.
The best affirmative information is that Dylan was examined by someone at the hospital, but not necessarily Leventhal. And regardless, Leventhal walked back many of his conclusions in the report he put his name to anyway.

The guy who put his name on it doesn't completely stand by it anymore. Why do you?

http://www.connecticutmag.com/the-c...cle_4327cac7-ffef-5eb5-9c19-fdaf70e84855.html

edit: Fixed link
 
Last edited:

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Cherry picking, no surprise there
Alright, want me to take them one one-by-one? Sure, let's do it:

No 1. Irrelevant. Woody didn't think he'd have to sue for custody as he likely was expecting shared custody. Once the accusations came out, he realized Mia was making good on her promise (as recounted by Moses decades later) to rob him of his family and took steps to fight for his kids.

No 2. This is bullshit. The prosecutor was excoriated for his comments about having probable cause as being highly inappropriate at the time, and the excuse to not further "traumatize" (to use his exact word) Dylan reeks of bullshit.

No 3. Per the testimony of Leventhal, based on the findings of the social workers, it wasn't just the reference to her private parts that was inconsistent. Dylan's interviews were constantly in flux outside of that element.

No 4. This ignores Moses coming out and supporting the nanny.

No 5. As I said, Leventhal never claimed to have interviewed her. He did a physical evaluation of her, and read through the notes of the social workers.
 

resident_UA

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,400
Since the defense force continues to use the dailybeast talking points from 2014 I'm gonna quote and post the full article refuting the misinformation it spread.



Source:
http://amp.slate.com/articles/life/..._digging_deeper_into_misleading_coverage.html
I'm not really sure what your goal is... Are you 100% sure that this happened? I know that the best approach usually is to trust the victim but here's there's a whole another aspect of the story where parents are manipulating kids (on both sides). It's really easy to convince a child that something happened that didn't. I mean it's relatively easy to convince anyone that they did something that they didn't do.
 

Darkstar0155

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,176
Alright, want me to take them one one-by-one? Sure, let's do it:

No 1. Irrelevant. Woody didn't think he'd have to sue for custody as he likely was expecting shared custody. Once the accusations came out, he realized Mia was making good on her promise (as recounted by Moses decades later) to rob him of his family and took steps to fight for his kids.

No 2. This is bullshit. The prosecutor was excoriated for his comments about having probable cause as being highly inappropriate at the time, and the excuse to not further "traumatize" (to use his exact word) Dylan reeks of bullshit.

No 3. Per the testimony of Leventhal, based on the findings of the social workers, it wasn't just the reference to her private parts that was inconsistent. Dylan's interviews were constantly in flux outside of that element.

No 4. This ignores Moses coming out and supporting the nanny.

No 5. As I said, Leventhal never claimed to have interviewed her. He did a physical evaluation of her, and read through the notes of the social workers.

Honestly man, I don't care one way or the other about WA. But some people in here are so dead set fast on not giving both sides an object look, and just want to scream "pedo! molestor! anyone who thinks critically is a sick person and pedo rich person supporter". Its intellectual dishonest and the fact the bias' are so strong to condemn anyone who wants to critically look at the situation and say who knows what happens makes me think some people don't care about the truth so much as proving a point.
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Honestly man, I don't care one way or the other about WA. But some people in here are so dead set fast on not giving both sides an object look, and just want to scream "pedo! molestor! anyone who thinks critically is a sick person and pedo rich person supporter". Its intellectual dishonest and the fact the bias' are so strong to condemn anyone who wants to critically look at the situation and say who knows what happens makes me think some people don't care about the truth so much as proving a point.
Agreed, it's pretty insulting actually that some people here are willing to completely condemn Woody Allen regardless of the claims from him, Soon-Yi, and Moses, and then go about essentially mocking and scolding anyone who is willing to say "Hang on, wait a second, this isn't as clear-cut as you're all making it seem!"

What pains me the most is the rampant misinformation about the nature of the relationship between Woody and Soon-Yi, because you can look it up on fucking Wikipedia for a clearer picture than some are painting here.
 

Lonewulfeus

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,075
I'm not really sure what your goal is... Are you 100% sure that this happened? I know that the best approach usually is to trust the victim but here's there's a whole another aspect of the story where parents are manipulating kids (on both sides). It's really easy to convince a child that something happened that didn't. I mean it's relatively easy to convince anyone that they did something that they didn't do.

I believe women, knowing how hard it is to come out about abuse. You see the Woody Allen defense tactics in many abuse cases so they get old. Why it's acceptable to shit on this victim is what I dont understand.
 

resident_UA

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,400
I believe women, knowing how hard it is to come out about abuse. You see the Woody Allen defense tactics in many abuse cases so they get old. Why it's acceptable to shit on this victim is what I dont understand.
Wait, who is blaming victim here? I'm 100% sure that she believes this happened to her. I'm not questioning this even for a second.
 

CopperPuppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,636
Agreed, it's pretty insulting actually that some people here are willing to completely condemn Woody Allen regardless of the claims from him, Soon-Yi, and Moses, and then go about essentially mocking and scolding anyone who is willing to say "Hang on, wait a second, this isn't as clear-cut as you're all making it seem!"

What pains me the most is the rampant misinformation about the nature of the relationship between Woody and Soon-Yi, because you can look it up on fucking Wikipedia for a clearer picture than some are painting here.
This is Woody Allen defense force tactic number one: turn every discussion of Dylan's accusations into a discussion over misinformation about Soon-Yi. It happens in every fucking thread.

This has nothing to do with Dylan's accusations.

There is misinformation, yes, but Allen's defenders turn the focus from her story into incredulity over misconceptions about Soon-Yi. Your post is a perfect example: "What pains me the most." Goodness gracious.
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
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Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Wait, who is blaming victim here? I'm 100% sure that she believes this happened to her. I'm not questioning this even for a second.
Nobody is blaming her or "shitting" on her. This is just another tactic to try to change the narrative to make those who would "defend Woody" (as they like to put it) look bad.
This is Woody Allen defense force tactic number one: turn every discussion into Dylan's accusations into outrage over misinformation about Soon-Yi. It happens in every fucking thread.

This has nothing to do with Dylan's accusations.

There is misinformation, yes, but Allen's defenders turn the focus from her story into incredulity over misconceptions about Soon-Yi. Your post is a perfect example: "What pains me the most." Goodness gracious.
People are using the misinformation to leap to conclusions. It's always relevant, because many posts start with "Well, he married one daughter, so it just makes sense he'd sexually assaulted another..."
 

Darkstar0155

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,176
I believe women, knowing how hard it is to come out about abuse. You see the Woody Allen defense tactics in many abuse cases so they get old. Why it's acceptable to shit on this victim is what I dont understand.
Nobody is shitting on her. People believe its possible she was brainwashed. She was 7 years old. It wouldn't have been that hard to do if Mia was determined to destroy Allen (which it sounds like she was or was at least possible). Further, I am not sure the same pressure to keep quite is the same for a 7 year old as it is for a adult worried about social/economic repercussions..
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
The Woody defense force the biggest in Hollywood. Even on this forum (and not the first thread like this).
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Disregarding her capability to recollect important events. I mean if someone said that about you would you find that insulting or not? This isn't forgetting keys here.
We're not disregarding her capability to recollect events, we're discussing the possibility, as explained by her older brother Moses, that she's been abused and brainwashed by her mother into believing this.
I didn't realize that arguing in defense of her alleged abuser is supporting the victim now. You put a nice veneer on it that's all.
Mia could just as easily be the real abuser.
 

resident_UA

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,400
This is Woody Allen defense force tactic number one: turn every discussion of Dylan's accusations into a discussion over misinformation about Soon-Yi. It happens in every fucking thread.

This has nothing to do with Dylan's accusations.

There is misinformation, yes, but Allen's defenders turn the focus from her story into incredulity over misconceptions about Soon-Yi. Your post is a perfect example: "What pains me the most." Goodness gracious.
I mean I literally had no idea that Soon-Yi was NOT his adopter daughter until today. There is a LOT of misinformation.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
The fact that this shit has been known for DECADES and only NOW people are making a big deal of it... smfh...
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
The Woody defense force the biggest in Hollywood. Even on this forum (and not the first thread like this).

Claiming anyone who questions anything is part of the "Woody defence force" is a reach. I don't really even care much for his movies, I've seen maybe 2-3 of them in my life and the last one was like a decade ago.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,316
Bringing in him being with Soon-Yi to build some case about him assaulting his daughter is moot. On the same level as stuff like "I always thought Aziz Ansari looked like a sexual assaulter!".

And what's with people going into these threads just to say stuff like "I never liked his movies", "I never laughed at his standup", "I've always thought 'Kiss from a Rose' was bad".... ... ... so, congratulations?
 

Darkstar0155

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,176
This is Woody Allen defense force tactic number one: turn every discussion of Dylan's accusations into a discussion over misinformation about Soon-Yi. It happens in every fucking thread.

This has nothing to do with Dylan's accusations.

There is misinformation, yes, but Allen's defenders turn the focus from her story into incredulity over misconceptions about Soon-Yi. Your post is a perfect example: "What pains me the most." Goodness gracious.
Im pretty sure it is mostly people that think Allen did it that bring up Soon-Yi and say things like "Dude married his daughter/step daughter of course he did it" which then forces others to correct
 

resident_UA

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,400
I didn't realize that arguing in defense of her alleged abuser is supporting the victim now. You put a nice veneer on it that's all.
Who argued in his defense? Allen might as well have a murder dungeon in his basement and I would not be surprised. Just this specific story seems a lot more complex than it seemed like when I clicked on this thread.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,191
We're not disregarding her capability to recollect events, we're discussing the possibility, as explained by her older brother Moses, that she's been abused and brainwashed by her mother into believing this.
Yes and she's saying she's not. Just because someone else said something contradictory doesn't change the seriousness of the claim she's made and continues to make well into her adult life.

She is not a child anymore and even if she were you should take her accusations as seriously as anyone else.