Jazzem

Member
Feb 2, 2018
2,864
Victor Lucas' response on Recon:



Victor Lucas said:
We never meant to offend anyone with our first taste of Recon. We knew our teaser clip was uncomfortable, but the subject matter itself is uncomfortable and I believed that Ellie Pyle's struggle to express herself after the PR person she was working with encouraged her to be honest and open was a remarkable unfiltered look at how painful something like Riot's abuse scandal is. It affects everyone. It is a more powerful clip because of that rawness and the effort to find the words.

But it's also true that we are too close to this material and we have erred with our first release of out-of-context footage. I am deeply sorry for this. To Ellie Pyle most of all, to all of our friends at Riot, and to anyone we've hurt with the release of this material, I'm sorry. That was never the intention.

Recon is not a "gotcha" show. It's a show about people with extraordinary passion working hard in interesting places to make art. It's a celebration of the human desire to entertain through games, and the effort that entails.

Riot was a unique stop for us in our first season. We knew that in in addition to the cool work being done within the interesting and creative space, there was something dark that we had to discuss. It's a small part of the conversation we had at Riot, but it was a powerful part.

So what do we do from here? We launch the show. If you've seen the teaser, you've seen the most uncomfortable couple of minutes in the hours of interviews we shot. The material you'll see in Recon is made up of studio visits and casual conversations about the culture and people that work together to make incredible things. The process of traveling to these studios and conducting these interviews has been some of the most gratifying work I've been able to do in my 25 years in this industry. I'm hoping you'll watch and enjoy the first season.

Thank you,

Victor Lucas
Executive Producer/Host – Recon
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
Instead of tying things with gg, why not just write an article about a specific issue?

Mentioning gg is either pandering or click bait
 

ronin_cse

Member
Oct 30, 2017
247
So two questions, and I hope this doesn't come across as me trying to defend any of this as I am genuinely curious...maybe my coffee hasn't taken effect enough yet or something.
1. Where does he attack Zoe Quinn in the article? I'm kind of tired so it's definitely possible I missed it.
2. What is so bad about the Recon video at Riot? It seems pretty similar to some other documentaries I have seen. I mean yeah it's kind of uncomfortable but it seems genuine and honestly it's something I'm interested in learning more about.
 

nickcapozzoli

Member
Feb 6, 2019
1
Apparently he wrote a book that had some gross stuff? Sadly the links are dead, but they're described. Even the old place had a thread that talked about how terrible it was.

These were from my [since deleted] twitter account but since they're linked here I'll provide a little context. They're from Pitts memoir-ish book about his time in games journalism (mind, it's only 3 years old: he released it in 2016). There's an extended segment where he brags about painting the town red with a pick up artist and marvels at the PUA's ability to neg women they meet (this is played for a laugh). He has a few lines about trying to apply an ethic to the job, but they're insubstantial compared to the boasting and the axe-grinding about his co-workers. There's a chapter about a self-realization that he should just indulge in the things publishers offer journalists (specifically mentioned is a dune buggy ride) because, as he puts it, "for all of my pretensions, I was writing about video games. They're supposed to be fun." He refers to several old coworkers by name at Polygon as "diversity hires" and is exceptionally patronizing about them.

He's one of the last people who should be talking about ethics. I'm also not the least bit surprised that he's trying to wield it like a weapon to lift himself up while throwing other journalists under the bus. It's kind of his thing.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
So two questions, and I hope this doesn't come across as me trying to defend any of this as I am genuinely curious...maybe my coffee hasn't taken effect enough yet or something.
1. Where does he attack Zoe Quinn in the article? I'm kind of tired so it's definitely possible I missed it.

Just asking questions and being curious, huh. You should be aware that's a GG red flag.

Russ Pitts doesn't attack Zoe Quinn in the article, but the article is about GG, so it very obviously concerns the big target of GG, Zoe Quinn.

Zoe responded on twitter, and then Russ Pitts came back with:

Russ Pitts said:
I genuinely thought you'd probably be over this being all about you.

He later deleted that tweet.
 

Megasoum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,881
Oh no... I can't load the link posted above for some reason... Don't tell me Victor Lucas is one of the bad guys too?

Fuck that's a tough Milkshake Duck if that's the case...
 

ronin_cse

Member
Oct 30, 2017
247
Just asking questions and being curious, huh. You should be aware that's a GG red flag.

Russ Pitts doesn't attack Zoe Quinn in the article, but the article is about GG, so it very obviously concerns the big target of GG, Zoe Quinn.

Zoe responded on twitter, and then Russ Pitts came back with:



He later deleted that tweet.

Believe what you want, at the time I was as far from being a GG supporter as possible. I just see people calling him out and I want to get all the facts so I don't look like an idiot ;)

Anyways thanks for responding! I'm like two days out on this and I didn't bother checking twitter threads out...not that that would have helped if he deleted it.
 

bishoptl

Remember
Member
Oct 26, 2017
714
Vancouver
GamerGate: For Asshole, By Assholes.

Good job dragging this rotting dead horse from the riverbank for a few more whacks.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,047
what does any of this have to do with ethics? what a fucking transparent way to start an article. it's fucking garbage and russ pitts is a dumbass. this is from a publication that directly catered to gamergate. they can fuck of forever.

I don't even understand how you can get this wrong, like the fucking Escapist was one of the major BEDROCKS of GamerGate. When I was a major frequent there I saw that toxic sludge of a thread literally go through 3 different names all revolving around Zoe Quinn before finally settling on 'Gamergate' and their shitty attempts at gaslighting the community at large into believing that it was never about harassment.

I'm so tired of hearing anything about the Escapist. They let that shitty movement fester when even fucking 4chan banned anyone talking about it. Whole commuities and posters were banned and left that site because of GG. That site killed them and they STILL want to knock on their reapers door.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
Believe what you want, at the time I was as far from being a GG supporter as possible. I just see people calling him out and I want to get all the facts so I don't look like an idiot ;)

Anyways thanks for responding! I'm like two days out on this and I didn't bother checking twitter threads out...not that that would have helped if he deleted it.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you support GG. I just wanted you to know that the particular phrasing you used was a red flag, back when GG was a plague on our forum. :)
 

lampeater

Member
Oct 27, 2017
952
This incident has made me start wondering if Take This has ever actually accomplished anything of value.



Since reading excerpts from his memoirs from the old place, I've always felt weird about donating to Take This. Besides hosting quiet rooms at conventions, I'm not clear what else they've done.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,900
Oh no... I can't load the link posted above for some reason... Don't tell me Victor Lucas is one of the bad guys too?

Fuck that's a tough Milkshake Duck if that's the case...
Maybe? His apology is for the video in this Escapist article. The vid is really fucked up and I can't really jive what that video is with his apology. If you're curious, it's best to just watch it.

Like in a best case scenario it is a catastrophic lapse in judgement on Victor Lucas' part, and at worst it's the sleaziest kind of gotcha 'journalism' masquerading as something better. There's no good path forward here for him and it's such a shame.

I can only hope the actual series is better... but I'm not gonna.
 

Volphied

Member
Nov 17, 2017
57
I gotta say, this Escapist reboot is off to a remarkably awful start. It started with a "we'll leave politics at the door" dog whistle, and now they've issued what appears to be a call to reboot gamergate itself.

How about acknowledging that The Escapist was a pro-gamergate pigsty? How about recognizing that the entire movement was kickstarted by Zoe Quinn's ex to attack her personally? No one in that movement ever harbored a sincere concern for the integrity of games journalism; lamenting the lost cause of gamergate is disgusting.

You know, I actually was optimistic about the relaunch of The Escapist.

Boy, was I proven wrong. Russ has succeeded at thoroughly disappointing me. It's now clear to me that absolutely nothing has been done to prevent the place from sliding back into the cesspool.

I give up.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,885
I don't know, other than being wishy-washy and adopting a weird "gg is bad, but there are gg people who want noble things" stance, that article didn't say much. It reminds me of things I've written in the past where I think I have something to say, but the more I write, the more I ramble and waste everyone's time while I try to find a point. It seems like a weird thing to post.
You can tell by how there are a huge number of front loaded citations describing a trend in traditional media outlets and then barely any for gaming-related incidents. It's the old "I have to make it look like I did research" shortcut.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
2,287
The thing that's irritating about the "ethics in games journalism" discussion - aside from it being used mostly as a dogwhistle to bigots - is that there is an ethics in games media issue worth discussing, but it's in the direction almost no one cares about. The "publishers are dumping cash on ___ for positive coverage!" thing happens literally as a normal operating procedure with YouTubers and Twitch streaming "influencers." Like, it's openly a monetary exchange for them to pump up viewership for their game, there's no effort to obfuscate this, it's disclosed very openly. This more or less just occurred with Apex Legends. (Which isn't a drag on the game, which seems to be great to the point that even someone like Jim Sterling likes it, but that kind of thing is literally just what happens now.)

The "big" game sites on the other hand almost barely exist as the juggernauts as they used to, too - only IGN really fits this description of some sort of hulking games media publication and even they aren't corrupt, they just have a tendency to hire people that aren't super competent, but there's nothing corrupt about that. This weird populist rage people have against "big games media" is like something out of a decade ago, it's so ancient, the gaming media landscape is nothing like it used to be and the "journalists" have been almost entirely sidestepped in favor of Random Twitch Streamer Dude. But there's not really any organized movement of people screaming about streamers being paid for coverage the way people think Kotaku is somehow people handed piles of cash, which is like some sort of hilarious boogeyman from 2010.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,943
These were from my [since deleted] twitter account but since they're linked here I'll provide a little context. They're from Pitts memoir-ish book about his time in games journalism (mind, it's only 3 years old: he released it in 2016). There's an extended segment where he brags about painting the town red with a pick up artist and marvels at the PUA's ability to neg women they meet (this is played for a laugh). He has a few lines about trying to apply an ethic to the job, but they're insubstantial compared to the boasting and the axe-grinding about his co-workers. There's a chapter about a self-realization that he should just indulge in the things publishers offer journalists (specifically mentioned is a dune buggy ride) because, as he puts it, "for all of my pretensions, I was writing about video games. They're supposed to be fun." He refers to several old coworkers by name at Polygon as "diversity hires" and is exceptionally patronizing about them.

He's one of the last people who should be talking about ethics. I'm also not the least bit surprised that he's trying to wield it like a weapon to lift himself up while throwing other journalists under the bus. It's kind of his thing.

Shit, I'd even forgotten how bad the book got? I remembered it being bad, but... not so specifically terrible.

(and fwiw your twitter presence is missed, but also completely understandable)
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
97,752
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This exchange is pretty telling about his sincerity.

"Aw shuck guys I'm sorry, I sure am a piece of shit, huh? Not that I'm going to do anything about it but aw gee whiz im terrible!"
Gaslighting and Sealioning as fuck
 

Siresly

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,778
Intent is one thing and then there's the actual result. People make mistakes. It's how you learn from them that matters, and how you don't repeat them.
I don't know that Lucas has actually listened to the criticism, since I haven't seen him address it. I've just seen him say sorry, that he didn't intend to offend, and that he thinks the raw unfiltered nature of this clip is a good thing.

He should read and respond to what's brought up in this thread.
 

intheflorsh

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
515
Gamergate was never at any point a good faith movement and Russ is frankly an idiot for enabling that narrative.
 

TinfoilHatsROn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,119
i have watched Vic since he launched Ep. I really feel he is one of the most nice and genuine people out there. i am going to trust his response is genuine. I dont believe he is the type to ambush people.
Wouldn't be too sure about that...
From Cecilia D'Anastasio , info on what was behind that shitty Riot video trailer they posted:

https://twitter.com/cecianasta/status/1093633434801586176
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
This doesn't exactly make me sympathetic. If you're not even getting big hits why are you rushing reviews out?
Because everyone in the field is doing the same thing. They get a game, maybe a massive one, and then have only a limited time to play it before the embargo is lifted and everyone else posts their own reviews.
 

Leveean

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,269
Because everyone in the field is doing the same thing. They get a game, maybe a massive one, and then have only a limited time to play it before the embargo is lifted and everyone else posts their own reviews.
If you're doing the same thing as everyone else and not having success you should probably consider a different approach.
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
Here's the thing.

We're actually talking about ethics. That did not go anywhere. See: Last year's Rockstar employee debacle.

What is confounding the author, I think, is that ethics discussion has moved on from being about people gaming has always been catered towards: straight white guys. Gamergate was solid proof that gaming discussion and reflections on the industry, by and large, couldn't be trusted to be led by white men. This isn't because a given white guy is immediately bigoted or unable to grasp the nuances of the industry- but because when given domineering power as a demographic, we really, really, really fucked it up.

So other people took up the mantle. People mocked, scorned, vilified by the majority. And they're carrying us forward.

This poses another question. What place do straight white guys have in contempoary gaming ethics discussion?

I don't know the answer, and I don't think it is my place to provide one.
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,495
Ditto. GG is bullshit assholes, and I personally don't care at all if there's some secret asshole giving a game an 85 when it deserved a 75. There's just more important things to care about in this life. Games journalism is mostly ignorable noise anyway.
Stop trying to bring up ethics in games journalism bs again.
 
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
OIQuG27.jpg

4PevpHa.jpg

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This exchange is pretty telling about his sincerity.

"Aw shuck guys I'm sorry, I sure am a piece of shit, huh? Not that I'm going to do anything about it but aw gee whiz im terrible!"
Okay this is unbelievable

It also speaks to the complete lack of professionalism or integrity anywhere in the GG sphere. If this guy was in any way a pro he
- wouldn't have let such information be linked on his site
- the minute it was brought to his attention that it was there, he'd edit the article to not do so
- he would respect the opinions of others not to do it
- he CERTAINLY WOULDN'T whine about it on social media that he can't "do anything about it" BECAUSE IT'S HIS JOB TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. He's showing literally 0 responsibility


Like, we've seen professional press outlets do all of these things (except the last) and they're all very well respected.
 
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
Here's the thing.

We're actually talking about ethics. That did not go anywhere. See: Last year's Rockstar employee debacle.

What is confounding the author, I think, is that ethics discussion has moved on from being about people gaming has always been catered towards: straight white guys. Gamergate was solid proof that gaming discussion and reflections on the industry, by and large, couldn't be trusted to be led by white men. This isn't because a given white guy is immediately bigoted or unable to grasp the nuances of the industry- but because when given domineering power as a demographic, we really, really, really fucked it up.

So other people took up the mantle. People mocked, scorned, vilified by the majority. And they're carrying us forward.

This poses another question. What place do straight white guys have in contempoary gaming ethics discussion?

I don't know the answer, and I don't think it is my place to provide one.
Your heart is in the right place but I think you're off the mark here.

Yes, the ethical discussion you're talking about absolutely exists and is relevant.

But no, it's not relevant to the person being discussed on the OP (and the GG scenario's roots) who has facilitated harassment and borderline criminal offenses through terrible journalistic practices.
 

Leveean

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,269
Ditto. GG is bullshit assholes, and I personally don't care at all if there's some secret asshole giving a game an 85 when it deserved a 75. There's just more important things to care about in this life. Games journalism is mostly ignorable noise anyway.
Stop trying to bring up ethics in games journalism bs again.
There are absolutely ethics issues in games journalism that need to be talked about. The discussion in this thread about The Escapist hosting GG content is in fact a discussion about ethics in gaming journalism.
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,495
There are absolutely ethics issues in games journalism that need to be talked about. The discussion in this thread about The Escapist hosting GG content is in fact a discussion about ethics in gaming journalism.
That phrase is loaded as hell. What we're talking about is a moron editor and his website that hosts hateful content.
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
Let's stop giving games review scores. Not because of some hokey "paid reviews" conspiracy theory, but because they're pointless and get people riled up for no reason.

They get people fired for no reason. Companies lose bonuses that threaten their future like Obsidian did.

Getting people riled up is the least important reason for considering removing them.

In my opinion we should try to have a metric similar to scores to recommend games to people but much more limited in its range. I think a score of 1 to 5 with no decimals would be ideal. It would turn the conversation away from "Why did this game get an 8.9 when that one that is worse got a 9.2" and more towards "these are similar games that were both recommended at the same level, let's have a look at their differences".

Even sites that don't use scoring systems, to some degree, use something similar to this where they will either highly recommend a title, recommend it with reservations or have a lukewarm or negative impression of them. Removing scores without a similar replacement is not a viable solution in my opinion.
 

Leveean

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,269
That phrase is loaded as hell. What we're talking about is a moron editor and his website that hosts hateful content.
Same thing. it's a little silly not to call something what it is just because you're afraid of looking like you're associated with GG.

Besides, isn't there satisfaction in turning the phrase against them?
 
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Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
I find it slightly sad, or ironic, that one of the points of the article is to discuss how we can talk about ethics in journalism without bringing up the past and the baggage of gamergate, without the discussion being hijacked by that hateful movement yet lo and behold, that's exactly what happened.

I believe there are important issues that need to be discussed openly about journalism ethics. I believe that our industry still suffers from a disclosure problem. Often times journalists will forget to mention when they receive free trips or gifts. Or how they were forced to review a game at a special location during a very limited time with assistance from the publisher.

I believe that any journalist that reports on some developer's product should disclose any bias they might have towards that person. This is something I've only seen a small select number of Youtubers do. I've seen some comment on how they would not report or review a certain game because they are friends with the developers.

Even if it is obvious, I think that the fact that a publisher sponsored or put advertisement for a particular game on the site is something that should be disclosed in the review because this is information that changes or fades over time and, as we saw with Kane and Lynch on Gamespot, might have an impact on the review.

At some point I hope we can talk about these issues, and others, without bringing up that hateful movement.
 
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Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,003
Finland
I find it slightly sad, or ironic, that one of the points of the article is to discuss how we can talk about ethics in journalism without bringing up the past and the baggage of gamergate, without the discussion being hijacked by that hateful movement yet lo and behold, that's exactly what happened.

I believe there are important issues that need to be discussed openly about journalism ethics. I believe that our industry still suffers from a disclosure problem. Often times journalists will forget to mention when they receive free trips or gifts. Or how they were forced to review a game at a special location during a very limited time with assistance from the publisher.

I believe that any journalist that reports on some developer's product should disclose any bias they might have towards that person. This is something I've only seen a small select number of Youtubers do. I've seen some comment on how they would not report or review a certain game because they are friends with the developers.

Even if it is obvious, I think that the fact that a publisher sponsored or put advertisement for a particular game on the site is something that should be disclosed in the review because this is information that changes or fades over time and, as we saw with Kane and Lynch on Gamespot, might have an impact on the review.

At some point I hope we can talk about these issues, and others, without bringing up that hateful movement.
Yeah I get you. Without further commenting on Escapist and Pitts as I'm not very familiar with either of those, so I really don't have an opinion on them. If someone wants to specifically talk about "ethics in gaming journalism" and they do this without bringing up GG, they would probably get called out on it too. Either for ignoring the hate movement and what happened or get accused of trying to revive it under the guise of ethics discussion. So adressing and condemning it seems like the best bet for me.

I feel it's bit similar for people who would want to talk about historical accuracy or authenticity in games. Others will easily accuse you of bigotry, because of the asshats who have been outraged about inclusion and diversity. Like happened with Total War and Battlefield in example.

Edit: To be clear, I mean that bigots got riled up about Total War and Battlefield. Not that it was just people who care for historical accuracy / authenticity. Like with Total War, the backlash only started when some GG website wrote about it. Even though the patch adding female generals was already old and people had proper/civil discussions about it before any review bombing shit and demanding the PR person (woman) to be fired happened.

Well to be fair, game journalists do get invited to many different events. Where they get to wine and dine and sometimes even drive a god damn tank. This isn't by any means a new thing either, it's been going of for a very long time. (Local gaming magazine has written about these events few times) And I could see especially inexperienced journalists to be somewhat impressed by these trips and it could factor in to the coverage they do in favorable way. But for the older guard, it's not that special anymore I'd assume. And again to be clear, I'm not accusing anyone about "corruption" here.
 
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Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
This poses another question. What place do straight white guys have in contempoary gaming ethics discussion?

I don't know the answer, and I don't think it is my place to provide one.

I've found that listening (really listening) is a really good start. Exercise empathy, try to understand how it's like for everyone outside the white cis straight male bubble, train your senses to recognize systemic prejudice and discrimination. It's much harder than it seems because our minds normalize what is commonplace. A great mindset to have is "I'm almost certainly wrong about a lot of things, but I can correct that by listening to others". There is no point where you are "woke enough" and no longer need to listen to others and educate yourself about their experiences.

A good exercise of extrapolation is: think of a person 100, 200, 500 years ago. How could they have realized the things they take for granted as morally correct would be seen as bigoted or aborrent today? Is there something they could have done to raise themselves above their own societal mindset? Alternatively, try to think of a person 100 years into the future and how they'll look into the contemporary times. Is there something you suspect they'd find highly objectionable?

After that, make use of your privilege. Society listens to hetero white males the most, so educate people on these issues. When people say something sexist or racist, explain why that is, especially when they may not have noticed it. It is a fine line to walk to do so without sounding preachy or the "perpetually offended SJW", and you want to avoid that because once people tag you like this, they'll stop listening to you, which is the opposite of what you want. Pick your battles if you have to, especially with people that may know you / trust you less, but do confront these things. If it's only ever minorities and women complaining about injustice, white males have a much easier time tuning them out.

It also helps a lot to educate oneself in things like feminist theory too. That way you can more accurately exactly why something is sexist and defend your position with actual objective arguments, rather than gut feeling.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,003
Finland
I've found that listening (really listening) is a really good start. Exercise empathy, try to understand how it's like for everyone outside the white cis straight male bubble, train your senses to recognize systemic prejudice and discrimination. It's much harder than it seems because our minds normalize what is commonplace. A great mindset to have is "I'm almost certainly wrong about a lot of things, but I can correct that by listening to others". There is no point where you are "woke enough" and no longer need to listen to others and educate yourself about their experiences.

A good exercise of extrapolation is: think of a person 100, 200, 500 years ago. How could they have realized the things they take for granted as morally correct would be seen as bigoted or aborrent today? Is there something they could have done to raise themselves above their own societal mindset? Alternatively, try to think of a person 100 years into the future and how they'll look into the contemporary times. Is there something you suspect they'd find highly objectionable?

After that, make use of your privilege. Society listens to hetero white males the most, so educate people on these issues. When people say something sexist or racist, explain why that is, especially when they may not have noticed it. It is a fine line to walk to do so without sounding preachy or the "perpetually offended SJW", and you want to avoid that because once people tag you like this, they'll stop listening to you, which is the opposite of what you want. Pick your battles if you have to, especially with people that may know you / trust you less, but do confront these things. If it's only ever minorities and women complaining about injustice, white males have a much easier time tuning them out.

It also helps a lot to educate oneself in things like feminist theory too. That way you can more accurately exactly why something is sexist and defend your position with actual objective arguments, rather than gut feeling.
This is all excellent advice, thanks for taking the time to write it.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,943
If you're doing the same thing as everyone else and not having success you should probably consider a different approach.

Tell that to the editors, and not the writers who are being told they need to do it to be paid.

Rather: why are you not sympathetic to the journalists who are assigned that?

Same thing. it's a little silly not to call something what it is just because you're afraid of looking like you're associated with GG.

Besides, isn't there satisfaction in turning the phrase against them?

There's no real point in reclaiming the specific phrase when we can easily talk about the same topic without using those words in that order?

In time the association may fade, but for now it's a useful red flag.

Yeah I get you. Without further commenting on Escapist and Pitts as I'm not very familiar with either of those, so I really don't have an opinion on them. If someone wants to specifically talk about "ethics in gaming journalism" and they do this without bringing up GG, they would probably get called out on it too. Either for ignoring the hate movement and what happened or get accused of trying to revive it under the guise of ethics discussion. So adressing and condemning it seems like the best bet for me.

I feel it's bit similar for people who would want to talk about historical accuracy or authenticity in games. Others will easily accuse you of bigotry, because of the asshats who have been outraged about inclusion and diversity. Like happened with Total War and Battlefield in example.

Edit: To be clear, I mean that bigots got riled up about Total War and Battlefield. Not that it was just people who care for historical accuracy / authenticity. Like with Total War, the backlash only started when some GG website wrote about it. Even though the patch adding female generals was already old and people had proper/civil discussions about it before any review bombing shit and demanding the PR person (woman) to be fired happened.

Well to be fair, game journalists do get invited to many different events. Where they get to wine and dine and sometimes even drive a god damn tank. This isn't by any means a new thing either, it's been going of for a very long time. (Local gaming magazine has written about these events few times) And I could see especially inexperienced journalists to be somewhat impressed by these trips and it could factor in to the coverage they do in favorable way. But for the older guard, it's not that special anymore I'd assume. And again to be clear, I'm not accusing anyone about "corruption" here.

Currently a lot of "inexperienced" journalists are more likely freelancers, who to my understanding probably aren't going to these events (unless they already live close by to them so it's easy for a site to send them, maybe?). These days, the people you should be way more concerned about being wined and dined (and being allowed to ride tanks, etc.) without disclosing enough are "influencers", not journalists.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,003
Finland
Currently a lot of "inexperienced" journalists are more likely freelancers, who to my understanding probably aren't going to these events (unless they already live close by to them so it's easy for a site to send them, maybe?). These days, the people you should be way more concerned about being wined and dined (and being allowed to ride tanks, etc.) without disclosing enough are "influencers", not journalists.
Oh absolutely. I personally find the mindset bit backwards which claims traditional press to be corrupt to the core, lying or just wrong/inaccurate. (of course traditional press also makes mistakes, but usually corrects those too) I'm more worried about Youtubers, especially the "gamersriseup" and "anti-SJW" ones. They'll say and twist anything to push their own narrative and to get people riled up. As an example how many Youtubers mispresented Söderlund's "uneducated" comment about the Battlefield V backlash. I've seen people even at Era to be very misinformed about what he actually said and referred to (it wasn't about the cosmetics at all), probably because Youtubers like TheQuartering and his ilk.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
,
Oh absolutely. I personally find the mindset bit backwards which claims traditional press to be corrupt to the core, lying or just wrong/inaccurate. (of course traditional press also makes mistakes, but usually corrects those too) I'm more worried about Youtubers, especially the "gamersriseup" and "anti-SJW" ones. They'll say and twist anything to push their own narrative and to get people riled up. As an example how many Youtubers mispresented the Söderlund's "uneducated" comment about the Battlefield V backlash. I've seen people even at Era to be very misinformed about what he actually said and referred to, probably because Youtubers like TheQuartering and his ilk.
YouTube in general has a huge far right misinformation problem. It doesn't help that their recommendations system frequently suggests them as soon as you watch anything gaming related. It's only recently they've stopped recommending far right and straight up fascists to me, it's kinda fucked.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
Nadia's one of my favorites for reasons like this!

Also update. The original article has been replaced today with an apology article ("An Apology from Editor-in-Chief Russ Pitts") at the same URL: https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/2019/02/05/how-do-we-finally-talk-about-ethics/

Nah this whole apology tour is a bunch of BS. Dude knew exactly what he was doing when he posted the original article, blowing the dog whistle for his GG friends.

Problem is that he blew the whistle too hard that everyone heard it so now he's trying to play dumb and act like it was a honest mistake. But i guarantee that in several months he'll be back at it again. Book it.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
This is all excellent advice, thanks for taking the time to write it.

Thank you, although I guess it's kind of self-demonstrating that it's just what minorities and women have been asking us to do for decades; I'm just giving it a bit of signal boosting (and confirming it does work, I guess). :)