May 9, 2019
850
So, I completely missed the second elemental material my first playthrough and I was curious if we can get another so I looked it up and I'm pissed. I went to my first playthrough saved file and I found it but I'm already on Chapter 7 hard mode. Do I have to do all the sidequest in the game and then do the main chap 14 quest or can I just do the chap 14 sidequest and then do the main chap 14 quest?
 
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Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
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They do look similar, but i think it's a stretch to say it's a foreshadow.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
I just finished the game and I haven't read fan theories yet, but my initial reaction is that I am really bummed about the ending and I am really worried about the future games. I think just on their own Destiny, time travel and alternate dimensions/timelines have the potential to competently ruin a story unless the writers are really careful. All of them at the same time seem like a recipe for disaster. I am not against changes to the story in theory, but the fact that the changes they have made to the story so far mainly involves characters that died in the original game surviving and therefore taking away all the bite from those originally powerful scenes also makes me really worried for what they are going to change in future installments. The fact that the game ends with you basically fighting a god in the sky above Midgar and having an anime battle with Sepiroth also really makes me wonder how they are going to make events after that feel threatening and not just anticlimactic.

That said. For the most part the game was incredible and I really loved the way the characters were handled. The ending just really put a sour taste in my mouth and made me worried for the future.

If it helps, the devs said via the Ultimania that the story won't be changing drastically and that it'll still be FFVII with slight deviations.
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,427
If it helps, the devs said via the Ultimania that the story won't be changing drastically and that it'll still be FFVII with slight deviations.

Thanks for the info! That doesn't actually make me more confident. If they aren't going to make major changes then I don't understand why they introduced the concepts of destiny, arbiters of fate and multiple timelines and have the ending be the way it was. If the changes are minor they should have just made changes without making a big fuss about it. It's actually going to be pretty weird if the introduction of a time traveling Sepiroth and an alternate timeline where Zack lives is not going to cause any major changes. Like if Wedge and Biggs (and possible Jessie) survived and there are no larger implications or consequences to it other than making the story happier then I think that's just a net loss to the story as a whole and robbed the game of a powerful moment for no reason.

After finishing the game I listened to Foxcade and friends discussion on the game and I pretty much agree with everything Clemps, Codex entry and Butterbuns say about the game. Both positive and negative. In case it hasn't been posted yet I'll embed a link.

 
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Oct 31, 2017
14,991
Even though I do not like some stretches of the game (side quests, Chapters 13 and 14, Sector 5 (or whatever sector Aerith's house is in)) this is definitely one of my all-time favorite games.

Beat it twice in the span of a month and I'm forcing myself to stay away from it for a while (so that it stays fresh).
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Thanks for the info! That doesn't actually make me more confident. If they aren't going to make major changes then I don't understand why they introduced the concepts of destiny, arbiters of fate and multiple timelines and have the ending be the way it was. If the changes are minor they should have just made changes without making a big fuss about it. It's actually going to be pretty weird if the introduction of a time traveling Sepiroth and an alternate timeline where Zack lives is not going to cause any major changes. Like if Wedge and Biggs (and possible Jessie) survived and there are no larger implications or consequences to it other than making the story happier then I think that's just a net loss to the story as a whole and robbed the game of a powerful moment for no reason.

After finishing the game I listened to Foxcade and friends discussion on the game and I pretty much agree with everything Clemps, Codex entry and Butterbuns say about the game. Both positive and negative. In case it hasn't been posted yet I'll embed a link.



I think the point is to make things more suspenseful. We'll never be entirely sure that they won't change something huge even if the plot follows the same outline and a lot of the same details.

Imagine thinking Aerith is going to die at City of the Ancients, she doesn't and then you feel safe. And then she dies at Northern Crater instead.

Or maybe this time, Cid and Vincent die at the end because they're not exactly integral to the story like Tifa, Cloud and Aerith are.

And like...are Biggs/Jessie/Wedge even alive in the Remake timeline? Could be a different timeline.

But regardless, I do think we're getting a new finale for Remake and that the AU stuff may be something important to it.

Maybe we're going to get an Infinity War-style final where everyone(AU Zack, AU Aerith, Tifa, Cloud, Red, Jessie, Biggs, Barret, Vincent etc) enter the singularity at the end to defeat time-traveling Sephiroth and erase him from all continuities. Just speculating.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
Thanks for the info! That doesn't actually make me more confident. If they aren't going to make major changes then I don't understand why they introduced the concepts of destiny, arbiters of fate and multiple timelines and have the ending be the way it was. If the changes are minor they should have just made changes without making a big fuss about it. It's actually going to be pretty weird if the introduction of a time traveling Sepiroth and an alternate timeline where Zack lives is not going to cause any major changes. Like if Wedge and Biggs (and possible Jessie) survived and there are no larger implications or consequences to it other than making the story happier then I think that's just a net loss to the story as a whole and robbed the game of a powerful moment for no reason.

After finishing the game I listened to Foxcade and friends discussion on the game and I pretty much agree with everything Clemps, Codex entry and Butterbuns say about the game. Both positive and negative. In case it hasn't been posted yet I'll embed a link.


We will probably probably revisit familiar locations and scenes, and the story will still be about stopping Sephiroth/Jenova but i really believe there will be major changes compared to the OG game.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
I think the point is to make things more suspenseful. We'll never be entirely sure that they won't change something huge even if the plot follows the same outline and a lot of the same details.

Imagine thinking Aerith is going to die at City of the Ancients, she doesn't and then you feel safe. And then she dies at Northern Crater instead.

Or maybe this time, Cid and Vincent die at the end because they're not exactly integral to the story like Tifa, Cloud and Aerith are.

And like...are Biggs/Jessie/Wedge even alive in the Remake timeline? Could be a different timeline.

But regardless, I do think we're getting a new finale for Remake and that the AU stuff may be something important to it.

Maybe we're going to get an Infinity War-style final where everyone(AU Zack, AU Aerith, Tifa, Cloud, Red, Jessie, Biggs, Barret, Vincent etc) enter the singularity at the end to defeat time-traveling Sephiroth and erase him from all continuities. Just speculating.
I don't believe it's that simple, we barely scratch the surface of what Jenova and the Lifestream are in the OG.
They will have a much bigger impact and presence in the remake, where we will discover more about them.
Remake isn't just going to be about our small group vs Sephiroth.
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,427
And like...are Biggs/Jessie/Wedge even alive in the Remake timeline? Could be a different timeline.

Maybe we're going to get an Infinity War-style final where everyone(AU Zack, AU Aerith, Tifa, Cloud, Red, Jessie, Biggs, Barret, Vincent etc) enter the singularity at the end to defeat time-traveling Sephiroth and erase him from all continuities. Just speculating.

Yeah all this sort of alternate universe/timeline stuff so unappealing to me and not at all what I want from a FF7 remake. The infinity war style ending you mention would be the absolute worst for me. I would absolutely despise that.

We will probably probably revisit familiar locations and scenes, and the story will still be about stopping Sephiroth/Jenova but i really believe there will be major changes compared to the OG game.

I don't dislike them making major changes on principle, but I dislike every single major change they made or hinted at making in this game which is why I am so worried about where the story is going in the next game.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
Yeah all this sort of alternate universe/timeline stuff so unappealing to me and not at all what I want from a FF7 remake. The infinity war style ending you mention would be the absolute worst for me. I would absolutely despise that.



I don't dislike them making major changes on principle, but I dislike every single major change they made or hinted at making in this game which is why I am so worried about where the story is going in the next game.
I would despise the Infinity war style ending as well.
What changes you didn't like?
We don't know for sure if there's an alternative timeline, those scenes might just represent hope, and what can happen if you defy fate.
Zack's destiny was just to fulfill a purpose that was bigger than himself, no matter how good of a person he was, his destiny was to just die outside of Midgar, and by defying fate that's no longer the case.
Of course the game only shows at the end the good outcome of going against destiny dictated by the lifestream.
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,427
I would despise the Infinity war style ending as well.
What changes you didn't like?
We don't know for sure if there's an alternative timeline, those scenes might just represent hope, and what can happen if you defy fate.
Zack's destiny was just to fulfill a purpose that was bigger than himself, no matter how good of a person he was, his destiny was to just die outside of Midgar, and by defying fate that's no longer the case.
In general I just don't like the time traveling Sepiroth or the concept of destiny being introduced into the story. More specifically I think having Biggs and Wedge live really robs the scene on the pillar the power it had in the original game. Similarly I think if Zack is alive it ruins the really powerful scene of his death from the original game. In general I think character deaths are used really effectively in the original game and it's not afraid to have be dark and those changes seem to go against that. I don't care for how Sepiroth was handled in the game. The first game had a less is more approach to Sepiroth that I think worked really well and made him mysterious and threatening. Having so much of him in this game and the changes made to the scenes he is in just removed any feeling of menace he emits for me and just does not make a good job at making me be interested in him or see him as a threat.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
In general I just don't like the time traveling Sepiroth or the concept of destiny being introduced into the story. More specifically I think having Biggs and Wedge live really robs the scene on the pillar the power it had in the original game. Similarly I think if Zack is alive it ruins the really powerful scene of his death from the original game. In general I think character deaths are used really effectively in the original game and it's not afraid to have be dark and those changes seem to go against that. I don't care for how Sepiroth was handled in the game. The first game had a less is more approach to Sepiroth that I think worked really well and made him mysterious and threatening. Having so much of him in this game and the changes made to the scenes he is in just removed any feeling of menace he emits for me and just does not make a good job at making me be interested in him or see him as a threat.
They are still dead on our timeline, at least that's what i think.
Maybe they are alive on a future timeline where the plate didn't fall, but what if it has no impact on future parts?
I enjoyed the fact that the planet's fate is guided by the lifestream and something happened in the future that made Aerith go against it.
Remake is setting up this huge war between Jenova/Sephiroth against the Lifestream with our party stuck in the middle with Aerith trying to create a new future.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
I don't believe it's that simple, we barely scratch the surface of what Jenova and the Lifestream are in the OG.
They will have a much bigger impact and presence in the remake, where we will discover more about them.
Remake isn't just going to be about our small group vs Sephiroth.

Eh, it all leads back to Sephiroth.

Aerith even said that there's no bigger threat than Sephiroth.

I consider Jenova and Sephiroth to be the same threat.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
Eh, it all leads back to Sephiroth.

Aerith even said that there's no bigger threat than Sephiroth.

I consider Jenova and Sephiroth to be the same threat.
Of course the end goal is to end him and Jenova
But on OG, it's basically just your party vs Sephiroth. I believe in the remake other parties will have a bigger impact.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,583
Eh, it all leads back to Sephiroth.

Aerith even said that there's no bigger threat than Sephiroth.

I consider Jenova and Sephiroth to be the same threat.
They could do a really cool scene in the second part, where the team has to traverse a battlefield between Shinra and the other Avalance, and they're using all kind of fucked up weapons, and Aerith realizes Sephiroth isn't the source of all the planet's evil.

That would be an utterly refreshing new direction. Honestly freeing the story from the constraints of the 'rivalry' between Cloud and Sephiroth, his plan to defy destiny and create eternity....backfiring and getting Sephiroth killed early. Now that would be more exciting for me.

Some people say how do you do another "Aerith moment" that changes the tone of the game and pushes the characters in a new direction, that's how you'd do it.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
They could do a really cool scene in the second part, where the team has to traverse a battlefield between Shinra and the other Avalance, and they're using all kind of fucked up weapons, and Aerith realizes Sephiroth isn't the source of all the planet's evil.

That would be an utterly refreshing new direction. Honestly freeing the story from the constraints of the 'rivalry' between Cloud and Sephiroth, his plan to defy destiny and create eternity....backfiring and getting Sephiroth killed early. Now that would be more exciting for me.

Some people say how do you do another "Aerith moment" that changes the tone of the game and pushes the characters in a new direction, that's how you'd do it.
Shinra against Avalanche? Not sure how that would work now that the president is dead and Rufus probably will stop funding it. There's 0 chance of Sephiroth dying early in my opinion.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,583
Shinra against Avalanche? Not sure how that would work now that the president is dead and Rufus probably will stop funding it. There's 0 chance of Sephiroth dying early in my opinion.
I would like it if focused on Shinra, human villains which could be really refreshing for JRPGs or the true Jenova that could be freed, by fracturing the worlds. (justifying the new narrative)

I agree it wouldn't happen but it'd really appropriate if Sephiroth got himself killed early, by trying to defy fate and all his babbling about trying to stop the universe from being uncreated, and he's the first to go. Indeed, that might be as shocking Aerith's death in the original, but unlike let's say killing Tifa, it would serve a purpose.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,248
People going into part 2 blind are not going to be ready damn it. Chapters 11, 12, 13 were rough but kind of pale in comparison.

I think Temple of the Ancients still happens but we'll see astral projection Aerith a lot more throughout afterwards looking at how Advent Children used her. I always felt like the OG kind of went into a state of denial for a nice chunk after it happened.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
People going into part 2 blind are not going to be ready damn it. Chapters 11, 12, 13 were rough but kind of pale in comparison.

I think Temple of the Ancients still happens but we'll see astral projection Aerith a lot more throughout afterwards looking at how Advent Children used her. I always felt like the OG kind of went into a state of denial for a nice chunk after it happened.
You think we will get to Temple of the Ancients in part 2? I'm not so sure about that. I think they will leave Temple and Forgotten City to part 3.
 

ggdeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
758
In general I just don't like the time traveling Sepiroth or the concept of destiny being introduced into the story. More specifically I think having Biggs and Wedge live really robs the scene on the pillar the power it had in the original game. Similarly I think if Zack is alive it ruins the really powerful scene of his death from the original game. In general I think character deaths are used really effectively in the original game and it's not afraid to have be dark and those changes seem to go against that. I don't care for how Sepiroth was handled in the game. The first game had a less is more approach to Sepiroth that I think worked really well and made him mysterious and threatening. Having so much of him in this game and the changes made to the scenes he is in just removed any feeling of menace he emits for me and just does not make a good job at making me be interested in him or see him as a threat.
I really agree with this. With the deaths and with Sephiroth especially. Sephiroth's existing motivation and story in the original are far more interesting than the way he is portrayed and set up in the Remake.

I actually tried my hand at making a video about the ending that talks about some of the same points you brought up in your post. If anyone would like to check it out and give me feedback that would be great.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,894
My apologies if it's been answered multiple times before, but I can't really read through the thread just yet, since I'm not done with the original and trying to avoid spoilers as best I can.

How is it that, although Cloud, Tifa, and Barret are apparently being filmed and broadcast live throughout Midgar during the Reactor 5 mission (according to Heidegger and Shinra), pretty much nobody knows who they are? Upon defeating the Airbuster, Cloud is able to casually go around with Aerith and interact with various people in the Sector 5 slums, with nobody acknowledging his appearance in what was apparently a citywide public broadcast (there's even that giant screen Scarlet appears on above the weapon shop, so people surely would've seen him on it). Instead, Shinra just keeps playing that old clip of the Avalanche crew passing through a fence hole during the Reactor 1 mission? Is that like, the only footage they have of them, or what? Was every other camera in both reactors broken?
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,248
My apologies if it's been answered multiple times before, but I can't really read through the thread just yet, since I'm not done with the original and trying to avoid spoilers as best I can.

How is it that, although Cloud, Tifa, and Barret are apparently being filmed and broadcast live throughout Midgar during the Reactor 5 mission (according to Heidegger and Shinra), pretty much nobody knows who they are? Upon defeating the Airbuster, Cloud is able to casually go around with Aerith and interact with various people in the Sector 5 slums, with nobody acknowledging his appearance in what was apparently a citywide public broadcast (there's even that giant screen Scarlet appears on above the weapon shop, so people surely would've seen him on it). Instead, Shinra just keeps playing that old clip of the Avalanche crew passing through a fence hole during the Reactor 1 mission? Is that like, the only footage they have of them, or what? Was every other camera in both reactors broken?
Gonna make the assumption that Rufus or The Mayor were involved with keeping the main group out of the public eye. Most likely Rufus as it seemed he was using them for his power play. Kinda slightly odd decision to leave out Rufus' motivations from that rooftop scene in the OG though.

Also gotta remember that Shinra's main goal was to drop the plate and pin it on Avalanche to drum up support for another war with Wutai so its possible they'd need key members running about still. They already knew by that point where their HQ was in Sector 7.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,894
Gonna make the assumption that Rufus or The Mayor were involved with keeping the main group out of the public eye. Most likely Rufus as it seemed he was using them for his power play. Kinda slightly odd decision to leave out Rufus' motivations from that rooftop scene in the OG though.

Also gotta remember that Shinra's main goal was to drop the plate and pin it on Avalanche to drum up support for another war with Wutai so its possible they'd need key members running about still. They already knew by that point where their HQ was in Sector 7.
It's crazy how much context one needs from the original in order to understand things in what is supposed to be a remake, but is actually a sequel disguised as a remake. Thanks for the response.
 

Nonagon

Member
Jan 2, 2020
319
So, I completely missed the second elemental material my first playthrough and I was curious if we can get another so I looked it up and I'm pissed. I went to my first playthrough saved file and I found it but I'm already on Chapter 7 hard mode. Do I have to do all the sidequest in the game and then do the main chap 14 quest or can I just do the chap 14 sidequest and then do the main chap 14 quest?
In Ch.14 you can always check the quest overview. Whatever you have done in the previous chapters will be remembered by the game, regardless of difficulty switch. Your question is a no, if there are no dependencies on previous chapter quests or if there are dependencies, but you have done them already. Your question is a yes, if there are dependencies and you didn't do the right corresponding quests in the previous chapters.
Most people agree that just redoing Ch14 will be enough, it's still not clear whether there are no dependencies however. It can only be really clear if there is someone who goes through their first gameplay and did no sidequests in Ch3,8 or 9 but suddenly decides to do all the sidequests in Ch14 and receives this letter and the materia.

Do it from chapter select though, otherwise it won't count for whatever progress you've reached on Hard.

It's crazy how much context one needs from the original in order to understand things in what is supposed to be a remake, but is actually a sequel disguised as a remake. Thanks for the response.
I am afraid just playing the OG won't cut it for understanding what FFVIIR is about. I recently watch sleepezi's theory videos, and it seems they incorporated a lot of ideas from the compilation of FF7. Some of his takes I think are a bit far fetched or even just reframing the simple nature of a game, but there are definitely a few interesting points to consider. I recommend watching it once you're done with the original.
 

Vagrant717

Member
Nov 12, 2019
134
My apologies if it's been answered multiple times before, but I can't really read through the thread just yet, since I'm not done with the original and trying to avoid spoilers as best I can.

How is it that, although Cloud, Tifa, and Barret are apparently being filmed and broadcast live throughout Midgar during the Reactor 5 mission (according to Heidegger and Shinra), pretty much nobody knows who they are? Upon defeating the Airbuster, Cloud is able to casually go around with Aerith and interact with various people in the Sector 5 slums, with nobody acknowledging his appearance in what was apparently a citywide public broadcast (there's even that giant screen Scarlet appears on above the weapon shop, so people surely would've seen him on it). Instead, Shinra just keeps playing that old clip of the Avalanche crew passing through a fence hole during the Reactor 1 mission? Is that like, the only footage they have of them, or what? Was every other camera in both reactors broken?
It's just bad writing. Everyone should've recognized Avalanche but the game forgets all about that scene.

Instead, Shinra just keeps playing that old clip of the Avalanche crew passing through a fence hole during the Reactor 1 mission? Is that like, the only footage they have of them, or what? Was every other camera in both reactors broken?
What you mentioned here is also another problem with the story. Shinra already captured footage of them in reactor 1 at the start of the game. So instead of blowing up the reactor while the group was still inside, they let them go supposedly so they could catch them in the act at a later point. Then during the reactor 5 mission, Shinra catches Avalanche in the act and executes their grand plan to display the group to all of Midgar....by using the old footage they obtained back at reactor 1. It doesn't make any sense.

Gonna make the assumption that Rufus or The Mayor were involved with keeping the main group out of the public eye. Most likely Rufus as it seemed he was using them for his power play. Kinda slightly odd decision to leave out Rufus' motivations from that rooftop scene in the OG though.

Also gotta remember that Shinra's main goal was to drop the plate and pin it on Avalanche to drum up support for another war with Wutai so its possible they'd need key members running about still. They already knew by that point where their HQ was in Sector 7.
None of this was in the original though. The whole Avalanche-Wutai conspiracy and the mayor altering the footage was only in the remake. And the mayor being able to tamper with Shinra's entire news network is highly unlikely, especially when Heidegger and the President himself were personally involved with that broadcast. Hell if the mayor had that much power, then there wouldn't have been any public disdain for Avalanche at all.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,894
It's just bad writing. Everyone should've recognized Avalanche but the game forgets all about that scene.
[...]
What you mentioned here is also another problem with the story. Shinra already captured footage of them in reactor 1 at the start of the game. So instead of blowing up the reactor while the group was still inside, they let them go supposedly so they could catch them in the act at a later point. Then during the reactor 5 mission, Shinra catches Avalanche in the act and executes their grand plan to display the group to all of Midgar....by using the old footage they obtained back at reactor 1. It doesn't make any sense.
Not only that, but Cloud single-handedly fights off tons of Public Security officers in chapter 2. One officer even recognizes him right before he jumps on the train, and yet nothing comes of this, even though all of Public Security should know who he is and what he looks like after all that ruckus. It's extremely odd how the plot just conveniently ignores that Cloud and Avalanche should be known to all, but just... aren't, blending into the crowd and running errands as though they're nondescript citizens.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,894
Also, this is completely unrelated, but just funny to me: there are a total of nine unique outfits the dev team created just for the whole Wall Market sequence, and yet nobody could be bothered to give Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge some plain clothing for when they eat at the Rasberry household in chapter 4. They're all wearing combat gear, and Jessie's mom doesn't suspect a thing.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,248
It's just bad writing. Everyone should've recognized Avalanche but the game forgets all about that scene.


What you mentioned here is also another problem with the story. Shinra already captured footage of them in reactor 1 at the start of the game. So instead of blowing up the reactor while the group was still inside, they let them go supposedly so they could catch them in the act at a later point. Then during the reactor 5 mission, Shinra catches Avalanche in the act and executes their grand plan to display the group to all of Midgar....by using the old footage they obtained back at reactor 1. It doesn't make any sense.


None of this was in the original though. The whole Avalanche-Wutai conspiracy and the mayor altering the footage was only in the remake. And the mayor being able to tamper with Shinra's entire news network is highly unlikely, especially when Heidegger and the President himself were personally involved with that broadcast. Hell if the mayor had that much power, then there wouldn't have been any public disdain for Avalanche at all.
The Rufus rooftop scene is what I was OG spoiler tagging for. Anyways I still think it's either Rufus and his power play or Shinra needed them out and about.
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,408
My apologies if it's been answered multiple times before, but I can't really read through the thread just yet, since I'm not done with the original and trying to avoid spoilers as best I can.

How is it that, although Cloud, Tifa, and Barret are apparently being filmed and broadcast live throughout Midgar during the Reactor 5 mission (according to Heidegger and Shinra), pretty much nobody knows who they are? Upon defeating the Airbuster, Cloud is able to casually go around with Aerith and interact with various people in the Sector 5 slums, with nobody acknowledging his appearance in what was apparently a citywide public broadcast (there's even that giant screen Scarlet appears on above the weapon shop, so people surely would've seen him on it). Instead, Shinra just keeps playing that old clip of the Avalanche crew passing through a fence hole during the Reactor 1 mission? Is that like, the only footage they have of them, or what? Was every other camera in both reactors broken?
We see the supposed "live" feed at one point and it's of Biggs, Wedge, and Jesse.
 
Oct 25, 2017
27,023
Not only that, but Cloud single-handedly fights off tons of Public Security officers in chapter 2. One officer even recognizes him right before he jumps on the train, and yet nothing comes of this, even though all of Public Security should know who he is and what he looks like after all that ruckus. It's extremely odd how the plot just conveniently ignores that Cloud and Avalanche should be known to all, but just... aren't, blending into the crowd and running errands as though they're nondescript citizens.
Actually based on the Kunsel scene in the Shinra Building chapter I'm pretty sure that guy was a friend of his from his Crisis Core days and didn't want to rat him out.
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,408
Not only that, but Cloud single-handedly fights off tons of Public Security officers in chapter 2. One officer even recognizes him right before he jumps on the train, and yet nothing comes of this, even though all of Public Security should know who he is and what he looks like after all that ruckus. It's extremely odd how the plot just conveniently ignores that Cloud and Avalanche should be known to all, but just... aren't, blending into the crowd and running errands as though they're nondescript citizens.
The guy recognizes the sword, not Cloud. It's more explicit in the Japanese version.
 

Rods

Member
May 1, 2020
837
It's just bad writing. Everyone should've recognized Avalanche but the game forgets all about that scene.


What you mentioned here is also another problem with the story. Shinra already captured footage of them in reactor 1 at the start of the game. So instead of blowing up the reactor while the group was still inside, they let them go supposedly so they could catch them in the act at a later point. Then during the reactor 5 mission, Shinra catches Avalanche in the act and executes their grand plan to display the group to all of Midgar....by using the old footage they obtained back at reactor 1. It doesn't make any sense.


None of this was in the original though. The whole Avalanche-Wutai conspiracy and the mayor altering the footage was only in the remake. And the mayor being able to tamper with Shinra's entire news network is highly unlikely, especially when Heidegger and the President himself were personally involved with that broadcast. Hell if the mayor had that much power, then there wouldn't have been any public disdain for Avalanche at all.
FF VII remake is not just based on OG lore. You need to read Before crisis lore to understand the entire Avalanche situation.
 
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ultima786

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
Easily the best breakdown of the various elements of the story, characters, and ending by Cosmo Canyon Observatory's Vyzzuvazzadth. He makes the most in-depth breakdowns of FF7R stuff and naturally he did a good job with this as well. What I like about him is he's constantly providing real evidence in the actual game and the lore and he makes clear when he's speculating without clear evidence. This is much better than MaxDood's efforts with Easy Allies and other videos.



His take starts around 1 hour 3 mins.
 

Omnistalgic

self-requested temp ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,008
NJ
So Aerith loves Zack (and kinda Cloud cuz he's baby Zack

Cloud lives Aerith...

Tifa loves Cloud...

Right??
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,894
So then, what's the current prevailing belief regarding Jessie's death? Did she really die at the pillar, or is it actually possible she survived, like Biggs did?

It broke my heart when I realized that not only did Jessie apparently die blaming herself for what Shinra did, but her mother and father died as well, due to being located up on the Sector 7 plate.

They can't just let her story end there. It's too cruel and unfair. She deserves so much better than that.
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
So Aerith loves Zack (and kinda Cloud cuz he's baby Zack

Cloud lives Aerith...

Tifa loves Cloud...

Right??
This isn't really accurate and only a fan thing in later years.

Aerith flat out says that while some of her initial attraction to Cloud is due to similarities to Zack she can see the differences and falls in love for Cloud as he is...which she should as Cloud acts and behaves nothing like Zack.

The idea of her being in love with Cloud because he is like Zack makes as much sense as her loving Cloud because he is like Roche.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,248
So Aerith loves Zack (and kinda Cloud cuz he's baby Zack

Cloud lives Aerith...

Tifa loves Cloud...

Right??
Not exactly right except for the last part but it's complicated and spoilers for the OG

Aerith definitely develops feelings outside of Zack's influence on Cloud but the feelings are for someone who isn't exactly Cloud despite her intuition that was the case.

Cloud definitely has some feelings for Aerith but there's something a lot deeper going on which of course brings us to

Tifa, who is pretty much an open book on this subject despite being closed off in a way lol.
 
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Takuhi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,313
So then, what's the current prevailing belief regarding Jessie's death? Did she really die at the pillar, or is it actually possible she survived, like Biggs did?

It broke my heart when I realized that not only did Jessie apparently die blaming herself for what Shinra did, but her mother and father died as well, due to being located up on the Sector 7 plate.

They can't just let her story end there. It's too cruel and unfair. She deserves so much better than that.

Jessie's glove is on the desk in the scene where they show Biggs alive. And the developers hinted that they pulled back on the montage at the end because it showed the fates of too many characters, hinting that there are other surprises they didn't want spoiled. And all that back story about her being a singer at the Golden Saucer when you know the party is going to the Golden Saucer in the next game...

is_jessie_alive_at_the_end_of_the_ff7_remake_1542736.jpg
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,248
Its actually funny that Cloud's mom wanted him with an older mature girl and Tifa's dad hated Cloud's guts lol.

Also as for the above discussion about Jessie. It would be really dumb if she were alive after all that drama and would convince me they'll try to change the story so everyone lives at the end which would be awful. If anything, the deleted scenes were probably a grave marker or something and they felt that was too much.
 

Vito

One Winged Slayer - Formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,484
Jessie's glove is on the desk in the scene where they show Biggs alive. And the developers hinted that they pulled back on the montage at the end because it showed the fates of too many characters, hinting that there are other surprises they didn't want spoiled. And all that back story about her being a singer at the Golden Saucer when you know the party is going to the Golden Saucer in the next game...

is_jessie_alive_at_the_end_of_the_ff7_remake_1542736.jpg
Yeah, there's no way Wedge and Jessie don't comeback for the sequel.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,894
Jessie's glove is on the desk in the scene where they show Biggs alive.
This is what really has me holding out hope, but part of me wonders if it's actually a valid clue that she's alive, or merely a memento / remnant of her death. Truly hope it's the former. Jessie's upbeat personality brought joy to the experience.

EDIT: And this should go without saying, but I want Wedge alive as well, of course! The whole trio is lovely. As a newcomer, they're some of my favorite FF7 characters, with Jessie being #1.