Jan 11, 2018
9,928
The SMN rework was great. They actually made the job feel like a FF summoner. Now the issue is that they're just gonna leave it there and not add more gemstones, which would be the most obvious and logical next step.
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,839
Tbh I kind of wish tank classes had the option to queue as DPS with massively boosted damage and disabled mits or something. I like Gunbreaker but I hate tanking.

The ability to play jobs as other roles is why Bozja remains the best content. I love you DPS White Mage w/ Seraph Strike and Chainspell. Hopefully they go even further with that system in the Dawntrail Exploratory content.
 

Dougieflesh

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,385
Milky Way Ghetto
Ninja, Machinist, and Paladin were good reworks.

Monk gets reworked every expansion, so that's bad.

Summoner rework made the job way too easy.

Astro will never reach the highs of Stormblood again, so I'm expecting that rework to stink.

Dragoon was perfect in Shadowbringers, but I understand why they need to rework it. I think it'll be fine.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,121
Summoner is boring! It's the only class where playing it feels like I'm missing something because it's just that easy. It needs like double the complexity it has. Really hope they get a lot more. Nothing but new buttons for it please.
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,997
I feel like the reputation of reworks over the years has turned quite bad.
But also the thing is the people that would care about reworks and talk about them it feels are also more on the engaged side majority of players will just find something that works for them and not be too invested in how any job changes.
I dunno how deserved the reputation is as well given at least from what I can tell stuff like the monk rework went pretty well?
But yeah the majority attitude I encounter from people facing a rework is fear/worry.

Whatever happens the loudest voice will be the disappointed ones anyway, and even then you have to dissect between job experts who are actually critical of the job vs "hardcores" who are just parroting famous raiders/content creators.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,480
Summoner ngl just didn't feel finished as a job. Would be tragic if the design team at square concluded that it's acceptable and they're only going to get 1 extra summon every two years. Given how the core summons are also 3d model assets that already exist in the game that would feel unbelievably stingy.
Hope DT like actually fleshes the job out fully to be like a job.

I don't really mind about how easy or hard the job is but I def think that is a job that has to few buttons but people just accepted it cause at least the job fantasy was cooler.
 

RenzokuTom

Member
Aug 31, 2020
99
SMN rework was great for me, was the one job I had no clue how to play well in ShB and now I can easily flex to take that caster slot in PF. And feel like I'm not griefing with low damage due to bad BLM/RDM play, jobs which I'm not confident yet.
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,839
Lightspeed is only really used for the opener isn't it?

I think so, but I'm no pro either.

Getting Lightspeed back to the place where you can actually use it for movement heavy parts of a fight, instead of it just being used for nonsense double-weaving every two minutes, would be a very nice change. Though really I've always thought Lightspeed kind of feels bad, because the with the way the animations work out it feels like the casts aren't going off at all so if they just binned it and added a new way to get some insta-casts I'd be totally happy with that.
 

Amnixia

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,492
I'm right there with you. I don't even know how you make it simpler. lol feels pretty easy as is.

Problem with healing in general tbh (or the game even).

But they'll find a way to homogenize the healing classes even further.

Probably take away earthly star and macrosmos with some less interesting spell in return and then make the card system even more brain dead
 

Perfect Chaos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,362
Charlottesville, VA, USA
Summoner is boring! It's the only class where playing it feels like I'm missing something because it's just that easy. It needs like double the complexity it has. Really hope they get a lot more. Nothing but new buttons for it please.
Haha, that's a good way of putting it. I pulled out SMN a few months ago for the first time since the rework, and went to go smack a dummy for a bit to figure it out. I kept looking in my job actions because I felt like I had missed a few buttons while putting stuff on my bars.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,688
AST just feels like it's in the wrong role.
They could have really gone crazy with card game elements as a DPS, but as a support role like healer it's way too hard to balance it to not be over or undertuned relative to the others.

The rng is another issue. The job would need to be able to hold a hand of cards if they want a wider range of effects, otherwise if they have anything that isn't a DPS gain then it will be a bad draw.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,121
Haha, that's a good way of putting it. I pulled out SMN a few months ago for the first time since the rework, and went to go smack a dummy for a bit to figure it out. I kept looking in my job actions because I felt like I had missed a few buttons while putting stuff on my bars.
It genuinely feels like how other jobs feel at 50/60.
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,839
Probably take away earthly star and macrosmos with some less interesting spell in return and then make the card system even more brain dead

I really can't imagine they'd ever get rid of Earthly Star. It's one of the best buttons in the game, has a great effect, great visual effects and the timing has some nice skill to it even if the placement really doesn't anymore. There's nothing particularly bad feeling about it, and they haven't really done any other cutting of ground targeted stuff which is the one thing that makes it slightly weird. And it survived the last two AST reworks.

Macrocosmos also seems totally fine, if a little hard to use sometimes because of how it stores the damage. The times where it got to invalidate a mechanic always felt nice and were a good unique job moment they should aim for more of.
 

Kouriozan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,334
Proof that Chaos is still fucked, I'm on Omega, I travel to another World to buy some stuff, and when trying to go back to my homeworld I get the error "congested only characters from that world can travel"
Well duh, you're drunk FF XIV, I even have the house icon showing it is my homeworld.

Edit : welp even the logging screen is fucked and can't go back from there + a 350 queue, yay more DDoS !!!!
Fucking hell my patience has limits.
 
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r_rose

Member
Mar 1, 2022
1,536
I just want jobs to be more dynamic and with less hoarding for burst windows. Like I think if you need two charges on a move there's been some poor design decisions at some point.
 

Raxious

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,532
these DDoS attacks are driving me insane, can't even do my rolo's :(

Question, which job would work to start making some decent gil? none of my DoH/DoL are leveled but I still have time before DT. Kinda want to start making sure I get a decent amount of gil. Currently got just about 8 mil. Not expecting to make milions every day, but I'd like to start having a decent income. I'm leveling up both of my retainers and sending them on 18h missions atm cause they're not max lvl yet, but other than that I don't really have a proper way to make gil.

I got lucky with a deep dungeon that it dropped a hairstyle worth 1.1 mil, but I haven't decided yet if I want to use it myself xD
 

Fireye

Member
Oct 26, 2017
227
Question, which job would work to start making some decent gil? none of my DoH/DoL are leveled but I still have time before DT. Kinda want to start making sure I get a decent amount of gil. Currently got just about 8 mil. Not expecting to make milions every day, but I'd like to start having a decent income.

It depends on when you're trying to make money. Right as the new raids come out, you'll see a lot of opportunity to make gil from most of the crafters. CUL/ALC sustains its gil making potential because regardless of the gear cycle, people are going to want to use food and potions, but the margins are smaller usually.

Another way to go about it is to make in-demand leveling items, for stuff like levequest turnins or GC turnins.

I'm leveling up both of my retainers and sending them on 18h missions atm cause they're not max lvl yet, but other than that I don't really have a proper way to make gil.

If you're going to be online for a decent period of time (~3h+), doing a bunch of quick ventures with your retain will be more profitable and quicker to level them up, as there is no ilvl requirement for quick ventures and they can bring back some valuable things.
 

Papatulus

Member
Sep 27, 2021
879
Question, which job would work to start making some decent gil? none of my DoH/DoL are leveled but I still have time before DT. Kinda want to start making sure I get a decent amount of gil. Currently got just about 8 mil. Not expecting to make milions every day, but I'd like to start having a decent income. I'm leveling up both of my retainers and sending them on 18h missions atm cause they're not max lvl yet, but other than that I don't really have a proper way to make gil.
answers always gonna be "all of them" (except cul and fsh, tho fishing is fun). The crafting jobs all feed off of each other and being able to make your own/sell intermediate materials gives you an edge. Plus being able to gather and craft your own stuff is a huuuge money save.

right now it might be worth looking into collectables and scrips, then stocking up on materia (and maybe even selling it before dawntrail as the market will be all over the place), do your own research on which materia sells best on your server as it could be some of the cheaper lower tiers.
You could also maybe craft diadochos caster/maiming gear to sell when pictomancer/viper come out.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,498
I've not touched Trusts, ever. I use Duty Support here and there.. mostly when doing a story dungeon for the first time, or when I need to farm glamour(so I don't have to fight others with rolling on gear). But I'm leveling NIN for the first time to get a couple glamours ready for Viper, and seeing as how I'm 71 I figured I may as well kill two birds by utilizing my Trust characters(who start at that level).

I was wondering if there are specific Trust characters that are stronger or more effective longer term than others, so I can prioritize getting them leveled. They're obviously all viable but does anyone here have any specific preferences for whatever reasons?
 

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,583
I've not touched Trusts, ever. I use Duty Support here and there.. mostly when doing a story dungeon for the first time, or when I need to farm glamour(so I don't have to fight others with rolling on gear). But I'm leveling NIN for the first time to get a couple glamours ready for Viper, and seeing as how I'm 71 I figured I may as well kill two birds by utilizing my Trust characters(who start at that level).

I was wondering if there are specific Trust characters that are stronger or more effective longer term than others, so I can prioritize getting them leveled. They're obviously all viable but does anyone here have any specific preferences for whatever reasons?

Thancred is the best tank and Alphinaud is the best healer. Honestly in ShB I think DPS is kind of a wash. Maybe Y'shtola.
 

Dougieflesh

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,385
Milky Way Ghetto
I've not touched Trusts, ever. I use Duty Support here and there.. mostly when doing a story dungeon for the first time, or when I need to farm glamour(so I don't have to fight others with rolling on gear). But I'm leveling NIN for the first time to get a couple glamours ready for Viper, and seeing as how I'm 71 I figured I may as well kill two birds by utilizing my Trust characters(who start at that level).

I was wondering if there are specific Trust characters that are stronger or more effective longer term than others, so I can prioritize getting them leveled. They're obviously all viable but does anyone here have any specific preferences for whatever reasons?
They're all the exact same. Just pick whoever you like more as a character.
 

Samaritan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,726
Tacoma, Washington
From my own experience this past week at least, I think Crystal has gone mostly unscathed by this DDoS bullshit. I only encountered a minor spike of lag on my home server of Brynhildr one evening, otherwise everything has been normal and queues have also been normal.
 

toadsworth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,081
I made it a goal a few months ago to try and get all my crafters to 90 before Dawntrail ... Holy fuck is it hard lol. I've got 3 up to 80 so far and the other 5 are all mid-low 70s and the time is running out! I've been using the marketboard for skybuilders crap and using beast tribe quests but it is such a massive grind it feels utterly hopeless some days lol. Still having a good time with it though and if I don't get there before DT it's no biggie
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,142
AST just feels like it's in the wrong role.
They could have really gone crazy with card game elements as a DPS, but as a support role like healer it's way too hard to balance it to not be over or undertuned relative to the others.

The rng is another issue. The job would need to be able to hold a hand of cards if they want a wider range of effects, otherwise if they have anything that isn't a DPS gain then it will be a bad draw.
Drawing a hand instead of one card at a time, with some "pity" mechanics to guarantee something in a pinch, would go a long way at making cards with actual varied effects feel functional, instead of being so situational and RNG-heavy that you never actually get to make use of half the cards you get.
I just want jobs to be more dynamic and with less hoarding for burst windows. Like I think if you need two charges on a move there's been some poor design decisions at some point.
Yeah, too many jobs feel too railroaded now. Anything that's not extreme and up feels like it just plays itself (and even then, reclears become boring pretty quick).
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,928
Thancred is the best tank and Alphinaud is the best healer. Honestly in ShB I think DPS is kind of a wash. Maybe Y'shtola.

Yeah, Y'shtola is a good pick for DPS. I think she's the best at mechanics too? Crystal Exarch works too (for Endwalker content it's Estinien).

Avoid Alisaie. She's there if you wanna level up them all to max level for a trophy/achievement. Otherwise, she'll keep spamming Limit Breaks whenever the bars fill up, and Alphinaud will always prioritise healing her over you.
 

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,583
Lore nerds: would it make sense lore-wise to have the WoL's dragoon powers disappear at the end of Stormblood. I want an in-story excuse for her to pick a new main.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,688
Drawing a hand instead of one card at a time, with some "pity" mechanics to guarantee something in a pinch, would go a long way at making cards with actual varied effects feel functional, instead of being so situational and RNG-heavy that you never actually get to make use of half the cards you get.

Yeah, my approach would be a hand of cards, and a set deck that we have to go through all the cards before a full reshuffle. A deck would ensure every card would need to be used and a hand would allow an important card to be saved for a burst phase.

There's a lot they could do beyond that, but I'm not here to theorycraft a whole moveset, I just think those two things make the most sense.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,142
Yeah, my approach would be a hand of cards, and a set deck that we have to go through all the cards before a full reshuffle. A deck would ensure every card would need to be used and a hand would allow an important card to be saved for a burst phase.

There's a lot they could do beyond that, but I'm not here to theorycraft a whole moveset, I just think those two things make the most sense.
Yeah, and honestly I wish SE went further in on giving each job a fun minigame/ gimmick to define them and their job identity, instead of just being different flavors of their role.
 

Apoptomon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
650
Australia
I thought it had been stated that EW summoner was the same as the SHB machinist rework--a new baseline to build from along with a rejigged class fantasy. I'd expect summoner's growth EW>DT to be much the same as machinist has been SHB>EW>DT.

I can't remember if they said what direction the AST and DRg work was gonna be. Less drastic like monk and ninja, or more like machinist and summoner?

I haven't played drg in a little while, but iirc the only real pain point was feeling bad in dungeons from levels 15-40 with the whole late AOE thing. AST I dunno, maybe bring back the shield-or-regen options? Also re-emphasise the time mage part of the job.
 
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Dec 3, 2017
1,172
São Paulo, Brazil
I thought it had been stated that EW summoner was the same as the SHB machinist rework--a new baseline to build from along with a rejigged class fantasy. I'd expect summoner's growth EW>DT to be much the same as machinist has been SHB>EW>DT.

I can't remember if they said what direction the AST and DRg work was gonna be. Less drastic like monk and ninja, or more like machinist and summoner?

I haven't played drg in a little while, but iirc the only real pain point was feeling bad in dungeons from levels 15-40 with the whole late AOE thing. AST I dunno, maybe bring back the shield-or-regen options? Also re-emphasise the time mage part of the job.

We really haven't had many hints as to what they're doing with DRG and AST.

IMO, DRG only really needs better skill distribution on lower levels. It's such a comfortable job. Rotation is perfect, you have plenty of party utility, flashy attacks, beautiful armor 💁🏻‍♂️ Am I biased because it's been my main job since HW dropped, perhaps, I shan't discuss.

Anyway, many of DRG's problems have been solved over time. Dragon Gauge was so absolutely awkward to keep going and not lose the buffs and stacks in SB, got solved. Animation lock on jump, solved, Mirage Dive got its own button, Dragon Sight doesn't have the dumb tether anymore etc. I at least am stumped on what they want to rework.

As for AST, it is in dire need of a button slimming. It's up there with PLD on the button bloat ranking. Synastry could go and be baked into something else, Undraw could be removed.

Other than that I'd like some better distribution of skills in the lower levels as well, and for cards to do something new, but I'm not holding my breath on that last one.
 

Super

Studied the Buster Sword
Member
Jan 29, 2022
7,373
Yeh Summoner at level 90 feels really undercooked as a job to me. It's like they basically stretched out a level 70 job if that makes sense.
 

Fanuilos

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,199
100%, summoner at 90 is what it should be at like 50. Summons like alexander, ravana, etc should have been capstone unlocks at 60, 70, etc.
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,997
My girlfriend is a SMN main, she couldn't care less about complexity but she's really hoping for a new summon. Alexander would be great.