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NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,031
It's honestly not just a sexualization thing with Byleth. It's also that Male Byleth gets serious looking armor while her's just looks kinda dumb and less serious. Just looking at the two, you know who you'd take more seriously. There's no real parity between the designs.
One thing is wanting the design to be serious, the other one is just wanting to have both versions wear the same clothes. Woman and Man don't use the same clothes in real life no reason why they need to be equal here.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,605
One thing is wanting the design to be serious, the other one is just wanting to have both versions wear the same clothes. Woman and Man don't use the same clothes in real life no reason why they need to be equal here.
It's not about using the exact same clothing — although F!Byleth would be immeasurably improved in doing so — it's about there being a parity in design treatment.

M!Byleth looks professional, believable both as a professor at a military academy and as a combatant. They're completely covered, head-to-toe, and while their armor isn't sensible (the chest is just cloth...), it isn't riddled with holes to show skin. M!Byleth has an actual facial expression, indicative of personality.

F!Byleth doesn't look professional or believable as much of anything. The leggings make her look trashy, and the cut-outs in her armor to expose skin (as well as the belly window) are purely for male titillation. F!Byleth does not have an expression. She has a blank, wide-eyed stare.

M!Byleth is designed as a character to play. F!Byleth is designed as an object to look at.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,272
One thing is wanting the design to be serious, the other one is just wanting to have both versions wear the same clothes. Woman and Man don't use the same clothes in real life no reason why they need to be equal here.
They don't need to be identical, they just need the woman to actually dress like a person that would believably be employed as a professor at a military school, like the male design is, and not someone who they dragged from the local burlesque cosplay convention.
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,031
They don't need to be identical, they just need the woman to actually dress like a person that would believably be employed as a professor at a military school, like the male design is, and not someone who they dragged from the local burlesque cosplay convention.
I am not denying that, i am just against this notion that making both wear the same thing suddenly makes it look perfect.
 

Jadow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
719
So I am not the only who looked at F!Byleth and went "huh.."

I was expecting the female counterpart to look badass, taking M!Byleth into account, a stern face, cool looking coat/armor, hair like Ayra or Marissa, but she looks... off to say the least, I dont mind her wearing a skirt but whats with the stockings and belly button window? Byleth is a mercenary.
 

Nana&Popo

Member
May 6, 2018
157
See, that's the reason why I don't find them anywhere near as replayable: The kids and figuring out who would be the best parent for the 2nd generation i.e. min-max growth for their specific classes and passing on classes is simply tedious, not to mention the many issues with the writing; I have a hard time seeing how the relationships would jump so quickly to marriage for many of the supports, particularly in Fates where "hey what if we had a kid" comes out of nowhere for certain couples. The system they use was fine when I first played Awakening but during repeated playthroughs, I rarely go out of my way to get any of the children because of how tedious it is to micro-manage the characters relationships. Whatever else can be said about the 00s era of Fire Emblem, at least the relationships felt organic throughout the entirety of their supports and the resulting payoff during the credits seemed believable that, say Ephraim and L'Arachel would eventually get married based on what we saw in said supports. Ijn retrospect, Awakening and Fates is this weird middleground where it isn't as well-constrcucted mechanically as it was in Seisen No Keifu nor were many of the relationships as satisfying to explore as the ones in the 00s games.
I feel like how much you like Awakening and Fates is directly tied to how much like like their pair up systems. For me min-maxing and trying unique combinations is my absolute jam. I'd skip most of actual support conversations and just pair them up for child growths, base stats, and classes. I would often start a new Revelations file, get to the point when you get everyone, plan/grind the supports, test the children, and then finally restart my file to try again with a different Corrin class.

Although, to be fair I'm a little biased as Robin is one of my favourite characters. She might be a dumb power fantasy but the whole "master strategist that wins by planning and out thinking" is my favorite dumb power fantasy. It's also one that female characters aren't often cast in. Corrin is trash though.
 

Mar-Mar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
138
Germany
I actually like female Byleth's design more. The male's clothes are too dark and the female's showing skin on her arms lightens things up. It's a nice contrast and - to me - more pleasant to look at. It's especially noticeable if you compare their artworks imo.



I do think the belly button window is extremely weird and it doesn't get much better downwards, but I think male Byleth looks a little too edgy which is something I dislike more, so yeah. That said, I am a little disappointed at both of their designs, not just the male one.

M!Byleth has an actual facial expression, indicative of personality.
F!Byleth does not have an expression. She has a blank, wide-eyed stare.
What are you even talking about? Both have no expression at all in the character selection screen. You are mixing in his expressions from the cutscenes which female Byleth doesn't have (no cutscenes for her yet).
 

Caz

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,295
Canada
So I am not the only who looked at F!Byleth and went "huh.."

I was expecting the female counterpart to look badass, taking M!Byleth into account, a stern face, cool looking coat/armor, hair like Ayra or Marissa, but she looks... off to say the least, I dont mind her wearing a skirt but whats with the stockings and belly button window? Byleth is a mercenary.
I remember the Greil Mercenaries attire consisting of everyone's belly buttons being visible and very easy to stab. It's just part of the job.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,605
What are you even talking about? Both have no expression at all in the character selection screen. You are mixing in his expressions from the cutscenes which female Byleth doesn't have (no cutscenes for her yet).
I appreciate you informing me of my own perceptions, but... no, I'm not. Wasn't referring exclusively to their portraits, but rather also their appearance on the avatar selection screen.

To me, M!Byleth has a serious, almost surly expression. F!Byleth is blank and wide-eyed. Look:



 

Mar-Mar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
138
Germany
I appreciate you informing me of my own perceptions
I'm sorry. I should have worded it in a way that I thought that this is what you did (it felt like it). Looking at your screens I see a little difference now. The eyebrows are higher letting her look a little gentler, but not blank imo. I think you're feeling that way because her iris is bigger, but the pupils are still the same size as M!Byleth's. Which is the case for most, if not all, female characters in 3H, although there are some male characters with bigger eyes, too, like Ashe or Linhardt and it's the same for them.

Anyway, I still think they are supposed to look rather neutral in the character selection screen and I wouldn't judge the depiction of a character based on that. I also hope they can be customized a little more even though that is likely not possible. Oh well …
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,605
I'm sorry. I should have worded it in a way that I thought that this is what you did (it felt like it). Looking at your screens I see a little difference now. The eyebrows are higher letting her look a little gentler, but not blank imo. I think you're feeling that way because her iris is bigger, but the pupils are still the same size as M!Byleth's. Which is the case for most, if not all, female characters in 3H, although there are some male characters with bigger eyes, too, like Ashe or Linhardt and it's the same for them.

Anyway, I still think they are supposed to look rather neutral in the character selection screen and I wouldn't judge the depiction of a character based on that. I also hope they can be customized a little more even though that is likely not possible. Oh well …
Yeah, it's definitely a stylistic choice that more affects the female characters' expressions — Edelgard also suffers from appearing sort of dead-eyed, more than her male counterpart lords (although Claude suffers a bit). Compare Edelgard's in-game model to Dimitri's:




In actual cutscenes, such as Byleth's rescue, Edelgard's face is animated a lot better, for what it's worth.

As for customization... yeah, I'm hoping reclassed outfits will override the student uniforms outside of battle, too. Could save F!Byleth.
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,746
I always hate the doe eyed look for female lords while male lords have the same age have normal eyes. I remember when Wada did a sketch of Ephraim and Eirika for cipher, and Eirika's eyes were over twice the size of his.

Now I'm not sure if Edelgard/Dimitri is guilty of this due to Dimitri's scowl right now.
 
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Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,746
Double post but I really don't want to edit the old one as this goes off. I'm starting to get hyped.

1. The location list is huge. From Fire Emblem Fandom here's the list of locations in just one country Fearghus.

Arianrhod
Blaiddyd (capital)
Charon
Conand
Fhirdiad
Fraldarius
Galatea
Gaspard
Gautier
Gideon
Itha
Kleiman
Magdred
Mateus
Rhodos Coast
Rome
Sacred Gwenhmyvar
Tailtean Plains
Teutates
Western Church

2. I'm also starting to get interested in the cast more due to this
https://serenesforest.net/three-houses/pre-release/characters/

I thought Sylvain (from Blue) and Ferdiand (BLACK) suffered from an odd case of same face. But the fact that they're dueling each other makes me think there's something more going on here.
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,031
Double post but I really don't want to edit the old one as this goes off. I'm starting to get hyped.

1. The location list is huge. From Fire Emblem Fandom here's the list of locations in just one country Fearghus.

Arianrhod
Blaiddyd (capital)
Charon
Conand
Fhirdiad
Fraldarius
Galatea
Gaspard
Gautier
Gideon
Itha
Kleiman
Magdred
Mateus
Rhodos Coast
Rome
Sacred Gwenhmyvar
Tailtean Plains
Teutates
Western Church

2. I'm also starting to get interested in the cast more due to this
https://serenesforest.net/three-houses/pre-release/characters/

I thought Sylvain (from Blue) and Ferdiand (BLACK) suffered from an odd case of same face. But the fact that they're dueling each other makes me think there's something more going on here.
I am pretty sure they are the xmas cavs from this game
 

Chalphy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,038
Bring back Master Knights so that players can punch, slash, or incinerate everything in their path.
 

Aizō

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,162
ほぼ真ん中の方
Need some help. I'm playing Fire Emblem 6, and I just can't hit the boss for chapter 8. Leygance. Everyone misses. Rutger with the armorslayer misses every time. Roy misses every time. I don't get what I'm supposed to do here.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,605
This woman's tripping me up:


Seems easily the least connect to anything else we've seen. Red made me think Adrestian though.
Between her and the briefly shown evil looking dude, there's quite a few pieces of the story we're missing. With its distinct shape, her sword looks to be the one shown in the mural:



Originally, I'd thought the kneeling figure was the Seiros. But if the Seiros is indeed a manakete like Sothis, she could be the dragon between the Goddess and the kneeling figure. Could be that's a rough hierarchy — is the kneeling figure the leader of the Church's Knights of Seiros? (The woman with the sword looks human, so probably not the same person, but perhaps the same position.)
 

MushroomSamba

Member
Oct 26, 2017
451
Trying to sneak in a non-Three Houses post here, lol. I'm about to finally pick up Shadows of Valentia. Anyone wanna offer up advice on who the good and awful characters are? Are most characters pretty viable in this one?
 

NeonZ

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,631
Trying to sneak in a non-Three Houses post here, lol. I'm about to finally pick up Shadows of Valentia. Anyone wanna offer up advice on who the good and awful characters are? Are most characters pretty viable in this one?
Most characters are actually rather weak if you look only at growth rates and starting stats, but they're generally all usable due to how the promotion system works (It gives a boost to all of their stats to a new base level rather than giving fixed boosts to all stats - that's also why aside from the lords you'll likely want to promote as soon as possible).

Clive is a specially weak character though. He starts average and then just drops from there. He can still remain useful through the boosts from the promotion system, but he'll be weaker than any of the other cavaliers.

There's also "Atlas", a villager you get in Celica's route. He has high hp and attack power, but low everything else. You can change him into a mercenary to fix his speed issues, although he still won't be doubling much later on, or you can go with making him an archer, since the only other archer available in Celica's army is just as slow and much weaker in exchange for defensive stats.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,272
Trying to sneak in a non-Three Houses post here, lol. I'm about to finally pick up Shadows of Valentia. Anyone wanna offer up advice on who the good and awful characters are? Are most characters pretty viable in this one?
In addition to the above post, you can use your entire army on most maps, with the exception of when you're exploring dungeons.
 
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Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,605
Trying to sneak in a non-Three Houses post here, lol. I'm about to finally pick up Shadows of Valentia. Anyone wanna offer up advice on who the good and awful characters are? Are most characters pretty viable in this one?
Highly recommend making Faye a Cleric — it’s by far her most optimal and fun class. The other villagers’ options are a bit more of a toss-up; each unit has a unique learnable spell list, so you could look that up to help choose.

Clive isn’t a very good cavalier, but Mathilda is a great one. Most characters are viable otherwise. You’ll easily notice who falls off and who excels. Just remember to promote everyone immediately, due to how promotional gains work.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,973
It's somewhat optimal to make all male villagers mercenaries.

Faye is the only character in the game who gets the ability to dance other units and only if she becomes a cleric. I didn't know this going in and made her a pegasus knight...which honestly worked out rather well indeed.
 

theprodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
653
It's somewhat optimal to make all male villagers mercenaries.

Faye is the only character in the game who gets the ability to dance other units and only if she becomes a cleric. I didn't know this going in and made her a pegasus knight...which honestly worked out rather well indeed.
....what? That's extremely redundant, ideally only 1 becomes a Dread Fighter
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,031
Let people choose what they feel like, the worst way to play a first playthrough is having people opinating what is optimal or not.
 

Normal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,265
Faye - Cleric (Just so you can get the warp skill early) I had a lot of fun trying to clear the maps as fast as possible with warp + rescue.
The rest don't really matter. Dread Fighters are the strongest class in the game so you can make all the guys mercs. But the game is easy enough that you'll be fine even if you decide to go diversify your party.
 

Yata

Member
Feb 1, 2019
853
Spain
Is it a good idea to buy Revelation?

At the time, I was so tired of Fates I didn't get it and now I'm in the mood for it. Plus it's literally the only FE I haven't played. I really enjoyed Conquest overall, but Birthright is among my least favourite FE games.
 

Kokonoe

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
Is it a good idea to buy Revelation?

At the time, I was so tired of Fates I didn't get it and now I'm in the mood for it. Plus it's literally the only FE I haven't played. I really enjoyed Conquest overall, but Birthright is among my least favourite FE games.
Revelations offers the best story of the three games it's the "true" story. You don't pick a side, you just say "fuck yall" and go about your business.
You also get to use like practically everyone which is great gameplay wise.
 

theprodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
653
Is it a good idea to buy Revelation?

At the time, I was so tired of Fates I didn't get it and now I'm in the mood for it. Plus it's literally the only FE I haven't played. I really enjoyed Conquest overall, but Birthright is among my least favourite FE games.
if you didn't like Birthright's gameplay you definitely aren't going to like Revelation's
 

Sterok

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,106
Is it a good idea to buy Revelation?

At the time, I was so tired of Fates I didn't get it and now I'm in the mood for it. Plus it's literally the only FE I haven't played. I really enjoyed Conquest overall, but Birthright is among my least favourite FE games.
Worst story of the routes, and by far the least balanced in terms of unit stats. The maps are also super-gimmicky, which can be good and bad. But for $20 you get a full FE experience, and the core mechanics and characters are still rooted in Fates (which is good), so if you like those it's worth a run.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,605
Is it a good idea to buy Revelation?

At the time, I was so tired of Fates I didn't get it and now I'm in the mood for it. Plus it's literally the only FE I haven't played. I really enjoyed Conquest overall, but Birthright is among my least favourite FE games.
No. Worst story. Worst maps. Most gimmicks.

There are plenty of other Fire Emblem experiences that would better serve your time.
 

Yata

Member
Feb 1, 2019
853
Spain
Thanks for all your responses.

Definitely the dilemma here for me is that I'm 90% sure I won't enjoy Revelation. It's really just for completionist's sake. (Also, because I love bad unit balancing cause I love training weak characters to monsters in FE games, love using Gwendolyn, Sophia and others).

Probably will cave in at some point.

EDIT: In case someone reads this, is there any problem with using the Legendary Weapons from FE6 after reaching Chapter 23? I am replaying the game and I just want to use them, but I get too nervous if they lock you out of the best ending or stuff like that.
 
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Erheller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,076
Let people choose what they feel like, the worst way to play a first playthrough is having people opinating what is optimal or not.
I like playing optimally. I read that cleric Faye was optimal because of warp/rescue and I made my Faye a cleric. Saved me a lot of trouble when the more annoying maps came up.

Are you going to tell me that my first playthrough is invalid?
 

Normal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,265
I barely remember Revelations... the only thing that stands out are the map gimmicks. Teleporting tiles, snow clearing, etc.

It was my least favorite out of the three routes. But it's also only $20.
 

Caz

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,295
Canada
Is it a good idea to buy Revelation?

At the time, I was so tired of Fates I didn't get it and now I'm in the mood for it. Plus it's literally the only FE I haven't played. I really enjoyed Conquest overall, but Birthright is among my least favourite FE games.
Revelations is the worst of both worlds; it lacks the well-crafted missions of Conquest and the inoffensive plot of Birthright. It's a middling entry by all accounts whose strengths can only be attributed to Fates' overall solid mechanical foundation.
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,031
I like playing optimally. I read that cleric Faye was optimal because of warp/rescue and I made my Faye a cleric. Saved me a lot of trouble when the more annoying maps came up.

Are you going to tell me that my first playthrough is invalid?
What? I never said that. I am just saying to let people play whatever they like.
 

Erheller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,076
What? I never said that. I am just saying to let people play whatever they like.
The person who started the Echoes conversation literally asked for advice on who the good and bad characters were.

Trying to sneak in a non-Three Houses post here, lol. I'm about to finally pick up Shadows of Valentia. Anyone wanna offer up advice on who the good and awful characters are? Are most characters pretty viable in this one?
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,605
Back to Three Houses discussion.

One thing I'm hoping returns is neutral/allied green units. Fates' relative lack thereof (I'm blanking on any...?) was just another small factor that contributed to the absence of proper immersion. They might often be fodder, but they make their settings feel more lived-in, and can provide more scenario diversity.

Of course, in some games their existence in any meaningful quantity can slow down gameplay with lengthy phases, but with skip and fast-forwarding being ubiquitous now, that wouldn't be a problem.
 

NSESN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,031
The person who started the Echoes conversation literally asked for advice on who the good and bad characters were.
You can be good and not be optimal, they even asked if all the characters are viable or not.
Back to Three Houses discussion.

One thing I'm hoping returns is neutral/allied green units. Fates' relative lack thereof (I'm blanking on any...?) was just another small factor that contributed to the absence of proper immersion. They might often be fodder, but they make their settings feel more lived-in, and can provide more scenario diversity.

Of course, in some games their existence in any meaningful quantity can slow down gameplay with lengthy phases, but with skip and fast-forwarding being ubiquitous now, that wouldn't be a problem.
Saizo in that one map against the evil ninja leader was neutral