I don't get the fucking luxury to ignore Nazis.I don't know what kind of world you live/want to live in but this stuff will always be part of internet/gaming/life in general. There will always be disgusting people and the best you can do is report+ignore them and move on.
This is not a bad idea. Maybe make an OT or community thread. Then we can discuss gaming for our kids.I wonder if we should start another thread to bring this issue to light with other Era parents on this forum? When I was a kid, we didn't have online gaming, so that wasn't an issue for us, but now, our kids are growing up in a gaming landscape that's very different from when we were kids.
I feel like that just labeling this a "racism problem" can lead to others trivializing the issue. This is worse than that. It's not just kids screaming the n-word that's the problem It's kids screaming the n-word who are then contacted by white supremacists/Nazis and eventually twisted into something more than just some edgy kid.
It's a poc problem is they should fix it themselves. /sTelling minorties to go fix the problem while trying to explain how theyre doing it wrong and they should do it the way you have envisioned it because you are the right one and everyone else is crazy is fucking hilarious.
My question (and I've been thinking about making a thread on this) is: what is it about video games that makes the fandom so conservative? I understand that video games have become a mainstream staple of entertainment in society and that this seems like an odd question or just one that is caused by a silent majority not positing their views, but I think it still begs to be asked because even at industry award shows as mentioned in this thread "trending gamer" goes to fairly conservative streamers, and not to mention a ton of the most famous streamers are embroiled in controversy.
This is not a bad idea. Maybe make an OT or community thread. Then we can discuss gaming for our kids.
You just have to look at how nazi-like rhetoric has invaded gaming space with claims of censorship in games, demanding the removal of women and minorities, demands of free speech which are never about free speech, not wanting politics in their games, their call outs against the media. And those like Boogie who remain "neutral" who only help these people maintain their platform and momentum. Or H3H3 who has started catering to these kinds of people. Jon 'gene pool' Jafari who got his statistics from a literal white supremacist site and people siding and defending him. PewDiePie and his Nazi stuff. Chris Ray Gun defending Milo's pedophilia and being a general piece of shit who does his best to ruin discourse on legit problems. And all of them who have either been on or have communicated with Sargon of Akkad who is a useful tool to neo-nazis.
Those are big name influencers. And that's not even the tip of the iceberg.
Sure, I ment in example like with Ohto and Chettlar in this thread. Neither of them has said or implied "hey minorities hear me out", but they both ended up having to defend and explain again what they said/ment as if they've said something wrong or problematic. Or they are accused of "both sides are bad" rhetoric. And also now they are seemingly trying to tell minorities people how to think and behave. They are talking about these things generally, they aren't adressing minorities. They feel there's something we (including me, who's not a minority) can do to help a change for the better. We had a thread created in the OT once, "Reach out to/educate bigots ~ to those who say this, you ever actually tried it?" and the OP also admitted from the start "if you say yes, I assume you are lying". Even the thought of trying to reach out and "educate" bigots was ridiculed in that thread by others too. Not sure who that helps and how. But this is what I ment by "fighting back" and it's not just this particular thread. Also I feel I need to repeat this again to be clear, I fully understand when people who are opressed don't have the patience or interest to engage with bigots. I won't blame them, they are the victims. Yet I think it's worthwhile to do even when not with 100% success rate, especially those who enjoy different priviledges should do it. If you are white, challenge racism, if you are straight then challenge homophobia etc. Do it at home, at school, at work, everywhere. Judging these things is of course also important, but with challenging these views I mean bit more than just telling people off. And no I don't expect especially minorities to have such patience with bigots, but there's plenty of priviledged people who are doing nothing and that has to change. So encouragement of people to discuss/challenge these things shouldn't be met with any opposite arguments. At worst case, the person doesn't change so I don't see any downsides to it. This approach shouldn't be ridiculed or questioned as much as it seems to be.Who's fighting back? I just find it ridiculous that one would lecture minorites on how to face the problem and how we're all just doing it wrong. If you guys really understand, do the thing you want, just stop acting like we have no idea.
Racism is a normal everyday thing period.
Recruiters no matter their ideology will use all available communication channels. Gaming is one of them.
As much as it sucks and a part of gaming is indeed full of manchildren pricks, I'm not sure if we should be treating this issue as gaming-specific.
It's a widespread issue in our society (*) and we should process it accordingly.
(*) Not trying to compare to other societies, be they previous ones or foreign ones, just, that's the society we live in.
Also at one point I'll need to have a conversation with myself about the whole idea of "don't push them too hard you need to talk to their reason". As nice as this sounds, the efficiency of such method seem largely debatable.
This is not a bad idea. Maybe make an OT or community thread. Then we can discuss gaming for our kids.
Maybe we could create a group for Era kids to play together.I'm down. This is one of my biggest concerns with my son online.
That you do it is great and fine, had you framed this around here is what I do because i have the privilege to be able to do so, that would have been one thing. But you elevated what you are doing as the way, not your way, the way, and accused me of doing nothing, accused me of being counterproductive (while also accusing me I remind you of doing nothing), you put massive amounts of words in my mouth, you seconded a post putting responsibility on the left for creating these people.
I don't begrudge the tactic I begrudge the expectation that that is how it must be done.
Piping in again to point out that that's not how it works. Nobody comes out the gate swinging with "come join me in heaven". It's a slow and subtle process. You become friends, then start seeding your conversations with more and more insidious bullshit until they're fully on board.If you believe in the promise of "paradise" from some random online you're dumb.
Jon 'gene pool' Jafari who got his statistics from a literal white supremacist site and people siding and defending him.
This is about the kids who are vulnerable and get turned into Nazis. They aren't Nazis when they are born. Nor are they Nazis when they enter their teen years. Just as Nazis have the ability to affect these kids, so do we. And when they are being more inviting then we are, well, how damn worthless are we?
I'm so tired of this "well fuck Nazis" I mean like, yeah dude. Of course. Fuck Nazis. But that attitude will never fix anything if all we care about is condemning Nazis, while just blindly letting new ones pour in. Why not, ya know, address the reasons these kids are becoming Nazis, cuz ya know, we don't want them to be a thing? You are literally yelling at the water of a flooding ship and articulating just how bad you think it is, all while more water just comes pouring in, sinking your damn ship.
I am so tired of this just, talk and no action. Just dunk on Nazis on twitter. Great. Cool. Wonderful. But the moment we start seeing symptoms of that kind of ideology spring up in young people, why on earth is our first reaction to go "NO YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU'RE A BAD PERSON!"? You will. not. affect. change. that. way.
"Oh so you just want us to say 'Yeah that's right. Be racist. That's fine.'?"
No. No no no.
Like, why is it so hard to understand that you can empathize with someone whilst simultaneously not standing for the bad stuff that they are tending towards?
When you meet an alcoholic who wants to go clean, do you tell them "YOU'RE A BAD PERSON. YOU ARE HURTING PEOPLE?" No. No you do not. It will not work. Trust me. It will not work. It does not. Any person in rehab will tell you that does not work. You tell them that eventually, but first you start by understanding their motivations for consuming alcohol. Then you help them see the mistake. You do that after. No one will ever leave the thing that is unhealthy for them and those around them until you help address the things that got them there in the first place. I am not saying to let the alcoholic keep drinking here, but I'm also saying to not just tell them they are bad and hopeless and you hope they die. Neither works. Ever.
I am extremely well acquainted with that process. If you tell someone they are bad they immediately shut down. You might be right, but you are not being helpful. You are not doing anything useful. And if you don't care to do anything useful, then I refuse to believe you actually care about anything more than sounding very righteous and smart.
I am not saying be like Boogie. Boogie's problem is he tries to make both sides legitimate, instead of taking a hard stance. Don't be like Boogie. Don't try to please everyone.
You can take a firm stance without alienating people. I do not give a damn about how righteous you are.
Again I feel like I'm insane because like, I want to see change, but no one else does. They just want to feel right. They just want to do the easy thing: say how bad Nazis are. Nevermind actually, ya know, helping the kids before the Nazis get to em.
This damn obsession with vengeance will not fix anything. I have yet to seen one single example of it working.
I don't know why but I'm picturing a guy in a backwards cap with sunglasses and a skateboard being sent to recruit the younger generation into RADICAL Islam
It is good but lacks a big point: what do we do after the Nazis got the kids? Yeah, we should, as a society, working to avoid that in the first place, but what do we do when it is too late? How do you approach or talk to a kid who already went full alt-right and think he is in the right, in the good?
The guy in the OP hasnt actually changed much. The thread in etcetera goes into it.It is good but lacks a big point: what do we do after the Nazis got the kids? Yeah, we should, as a society, working to avoid that in the first place, but what do we do when it is too late? How do you approach or talk to a kid who already went full alt-right and think he is in the right, in the good?
It is extremely hard to make that people recognize their mistakes or even engaging in a normal conversation. I know people can change, they deserve the opportunity to change and show it (talking from experience being a former mysoginist), like the former white supremacist on the OP, but how do we deal with people with their vision so up they own arses they refuse to change?
I'd love to have an answer to that, but sadly, after many years of tiring social media exchanges, I have no clue. You go and tell that alt-right kid that he's doing great? That the way he sees the world is not bad when clearly it is?
As all people reforming, clearly is gonna need a lot more of work and time to be seeing by the people eyes, and is understandable, just catched up on the things he did and, yes, he will need A LOT of time and work.The guy in the OP hasnt actually changed much. The thread in etcetera goes into it.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/fo...-an-ama-on-reddit-read-op.52250/page-9#footer
This is probably the main problem I have with PC gaming. Steam is a platform that refuses to censor or control messaging in people's screennames or avatars. I'll load up a game of Rocket League and get a heap of white supremacist or the_donald memes thrown in my face. It definitely makes me consider how a more restrictive and controlled console could be more appealing for a parent.
It is really difficult and I find unrealistic that it will solved in any matter anytime soon. To stop radicalization a good portion of the country will need to see it has a huge problem, their needs to be a political will to confront it and treat it, and the government and many organizations need to dedicate resources. It won't be dealt with grassroot programs. They do not have the resources to solve such a complex and large scale problem.It is good but lacks a big point: what do we do after the Nazis got the kids? Yeah, we should, as a society, working to avoid that in the first place, but what do we do when it is too late? How do you approach or talk to a kid who already went full alt-right and think he is in the right, in the good?
It is extremely hard to make that people recognize their mistakes or even engaging in a normal conversation. I know people can change, they deserve the opportunity to change and show it (talking from experience being a former mysoginist), like the former white supremacist on the OP, but how do we deal with people with their vision so up they own arses they refuse to change?
I'd love to have an answer to that, but sadly, after many years of tiring social media exchanges, I have no clue. You go and tell that alt-right kid that he's doing great? That the way he sees the world is not bad when clearly it is?
It is good but lacks a big point: what do we do after the Nazis got the kids? Yeah, we should, as a society, working to avoid that in the first place, but what do we do when it is too late? How do you approach or talk to a kid who already went full alt-right and think he is in the right, in the good?
It is extremely hard to make that people recognize their mistakes or even engaging in a normal conversation. I know people can change, they deserve the opportunity to change and show it (talking from experience being a former mysoginist), like the former white supremacist on the OP, but how do we deal with people with their vision so up they own arses they refuse to change?
I'd love to have an answer to that, but sadly, after many years of tiring social media exchanges, I have no clue. You go and tell that alt-right kid that he's doing great? That the way he sees the world is not bad when clearly it is?
That one is way, way tougher. However, it is true that time is on our side if we act. If we can stop the floodgates (i.e. the young kids), then eventually the old angry bastards will grow old and die. I'd rather it not take that long, and every person we neglect and leave to the other side represents years longer the process will take.
There is no easy solution here because it's tied so deeply to what makes humans human. Like, I can think of no tougher task. I never wanted to imply it was easy. I just wanted to say it was important.
Its upsetting that my rant against a great issue rampant among the left was seen by the mods here as some sort of negative generalization of the left at large, rather than a call to action as it was intended. If you don't call out a rampant issue, how on Earth are you supposed to fix it? And in my opinion, it's extremely extremely common, especially given that it feels like an uphill battle any time I encounters it. I think we can be better. Apologies if it sounded like I just think the left is nothing but terrible people. That was not the intent.