Fortnite Chapter 4 to utilise Unreal Engine 5.1 (Nanite, Lumen, Virtual Shadow Maps, Global Illumination, Ray Tracing, TSR)

CheapJi · Dec 5, 2022

I have a hard time figuring out if water reflections are raytraced or not.
They don't look ray traced on the series S (SSR hence the lack of reflection on the sides of the screen) meanwhile on PS5 it's a lot more convincing but still I feel like something's missing. It does not look quite raytraced in my opinion.

PLASTICA-MAN · Dec 5, 2022

CheapJi said:
I have a hard time figuring out if water reflections are raytraced or not.
They don't look ray traced on the series S (SSR hence the lack of reflection on the sides of the screen) meanwhile on PS5 it's a lot more convincing but still I feel like something's missing. It does not look quite raytraced in my opinion.

Some water bodies are while others are not. The mainland waters are raytraced: you can see off screen objects like trees (lower mesh and resolution) being reflected but no characters cus it's the high setting and software based, but some waters like uderground mine streams are SSR which is a bummer. I don't know if this is for consoels only or whether PC maxed out has them ray traced too or a common thing between all platforms.

writhingcorpse897 said:
I bet that skin looks great with the lumen reflections. The rough/diffuse reflections also looked very impressive.

Indeed. #373

Theecliff · Dec 5, 2022

Greebman said:
View: https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1599714524973924354

John from DF is on the case. His comparison pics also show off the Nanite improvements quite well:

The stonework here:

The cladding of the house here:

Props to the artists who put in the work. I fully expected them to just enable Nanite on old assets and call it a day.

haven't had a chance to try the update out yet myself but very happy to see DF looking to make a video on it, will be cool to see what sorts of details they catch.

gabdeg · Dec 5, 2022

View: https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1599819748430471172

Now I want an Unreal remake in UE5.

writhingcorpse897 · Dec 5, 2022

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Some water bodies are while others are not. The mainland waters are raytraced: you can see off screen objects like trees (lower mesh and resolution) being reflected but no characters cus it's the high setting and software based, but some waters like uderground mine streams are SSR which is a bummer. I don't know if this is for consoels only or whether PC maxed out has them ray traced too or a common thing between all platforms.

Indeed. #373

Wow it looks great. I bet it looks even better in motion.

PLASTICA-MAN · Dec 5, 2022

Greebman said:
View: https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1599819748430471172

Now I want an Unreal remake in UE5.

The way Epic introduced an Ayida skin in the last season made me feel like they were trolling us. This was harsh haha.

writhingcorpse897 said:
Wow it looks great. I bet it looks even better in motion.

You rarely see reflections on non flat surfaces recording everything happening around you, well the whole character shows stuff being built on his body like the last screen I mentioned. No way to imagine this except seeing it in action. This a huge achievement on consoles. They really pulled a wonder.

Sangral · Dec 5, 2022

The only thing I really really don't like graphically because it sticks out like a sore thumb is this weird "magical" light source that's always on your character in dark areas. With all these real dynamic lighting and shadow effects this is just a bit disappointing. Why is this a thing and can I get rid of it?

ILikeFeet · Dec 5, 2022

Sangral said:
The only thing I really really don't like graphically because it sticks out like a sore thumb is this weird "magical" light source that's always on your character in dark areas. With all these real dynamic lighting and shadow effects this is just a bit disappointing. Why is this a thing and can I get rid of it?

probably for readability. and I haven't head of any mod for it (largely because this is an online game)

PLASTICA-MAN · Dec 5, 2022

Sangral said:
The only thing I really really don't like graphically because it sticks out like a sore thumb is this weird "magical" light source that's always on your character in dark areas. With all these real dynamic lighting and shadow effects this is just a bit disappointing. Why is this a thing and can I get rid of it?

That bluish hue existed since the start of UE4 and in almost all games. It's a problem with the engine lighting itself that makes it feel off some times. I fully agree with you. With hue I could recognize any UE4 game.

bitcloudrzr · Dec 5, 2022

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Some water bodies are while others are not. The mainland waters are raytraced: you can see off screen objects like trees (lower mesh and resolution) being reflected but no characters cus it's the high setting and software based, but some waters like uderground mine streams are SSR which is a bummer. I don't know if this is for consoels only or whether PC maxed out has them ray traced too or a common thing between all platforms.

I am guessing that this is all dynamic to maintain a solid 60fps on like PS5, including other elements like dynamic res and what not.

Muhammad · Dec 5, 2022

Greebman said:
Here are some HW RT on/off comparisons:

Please make more of thiose HWRT On/Off comparisons .

TheCongressman · Dec 5, 2022

Sangral said:
The only thing I really really don't like graphically because it sticks out like a sore thumb is this weird "magical" light source that's always on your character in dark areas. With all these real dynamic lighting and shadow effects this is just a bit disappointing. Why is this a thing and can I get rid of it?

Likely wouldn't be able to see your character very well in the dark without it some kind of rim light. That being said, they could learn a thing or two from Demon's Souls.

View: https://twitter.com/rittzler/status/1599657972283555840?s=20&t=R-pL_1SqcXPa4Lr_QwQzXw

I love contextualization like this.

Jamrock User · Dec 5, 2022

Sangral said:
The only thing I really really don't like graphically because it sticks out like a sore thumb is this weird "magical" light source that's always on your character in dark areas. With all these real dynamic lighting and shadow effects this is just a bit disappointing. Why is this a thing and can I get rid of it?

Battlefield games added lights around characters when players started complaining about visibility. Wouldn't be surprised if this is them staying ahead of that.

Mutagenic · Dec 5, 2022

It's impressive on current gen consoles, but I'm unsatisfied with the hit to performance on PC. I'd rather avoid any reconstruction and play with a crisp image at around 240fps on my monitor.

Fezan · Dec 5, 2022

Greebman said:
Damn, that looks good. I found a video showing it off without Twitter compression:

View: https://youtu.be/8sKB-kOpi-4

So there is no rt for fire effects

PLASTICA-MAN · Dec 5, 2022

Fezan said:
So there is no rt for fire effects

Such effects and particles are not reflected even on PC since RT started back then where you can see characters with fancy effects completely butchered cus only their solid rigged parts are reflected but not the non polygonal stuff around them. For RT to be effective and traced it mostly needs stuff turned into solid geomtery like how now grass is real geomtery instead of billboards or alphas or cards. Unlerss they have other workarounds for it.

Fezan · Dec 5, 2022

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Such effects and particles are not reflected even on PC since RT started back then where you can see characters with fancy effects completely butchered cus only their solid rigged parts are reflected but not the non polygonal stuff around them. For RT to be effective and traced it mostly needs stuff turned into solid geomtery like how now grass is real geomtery instead of billboards or alphas or cards. Unlerss they have other workarounds for it.

I think I didn't worded it properly. I meant no light emitting from fire particles

Sangral · Dec 5, 2022

TheCongressman said:
Likely wouldn't be able to see your character very well in the dark without it some kind of rim light.

I don't know. It's not that dark, even in completely unlit rooms or corners that you would really need it. But with looking closer at this, it really seems like this is something they did so you can really see your weapon better when aiming.

But it's so noticable, even when not aiming and being in well lit rooms or sometimes even outside, that I think it's completely against what Epic tried to accomplish with this brand new RT update, while it maybe was ok before, it now feels like a relic from older updates and ruins the real time lighting effect a bit.

writhingcorpse897 · Dec 5, 2022

Is there a way to opt out of playing with bots?

ILikeFeet said:
probably for readability. and I haven't head of any mod for it (largely because this is an online game)

Yea this is definitely a balancing thing. Same thing happened with COD.

Grain Silo · Dec 5, 2022

Cranked everything to max with my 3080, and I'm getting around 30 fps, oof. It's indeed beautiful though.

writhingcorpse897 said:
Is there a way to opt out of playing with bots?

The bots will go away naturally as you level up your battle pass.

ShiftyRat · Dec 5, 2022

I played a few matches last night and the game was an absolute stuttery mess. About how long did it take for everyone's shaders to fully compile? I'm using a 3080 and a 12700k.

Eggiem · Dec 5, 2022

Fortnite is the most impressive game on PC and consoles now. Amazing.

chainlinkspiral · Dec 5, 2022

The more I play, the more I appreciate the subtle dynamic lighting st play. So good.

Bio-Frost · Dec 5, 2022

ShiftyRat said:
I played a few matches last night and the game was an absolute stuttery mess. About how long did it take for everyone's shaders to fully compile? I'm using a 3080 and a 12700k.

I have played 15 matches so far on PC and its been a studdery mess the whole time only getting better maaybe near the end of that 15. Sometimes if i stay in one area ill get a constant 60 but then once i run somewhere else ill get weird spikes down into the 15's for a second then shoots back up. Similar specs to you with a 3080 and a 12900k. Nanite and lumen turned on or not its a mess and has been like this for me since the move to ue5 last season. So ive just started playing more on ps5.

PLASTICA-MAN · Dec 5, 2022

Eggiem said:
Fortnite is the most impressive game on PC and consoles now. Amazing.

Actually UE5 was the onyl engine to show what true next gen means with Echo, Matrix demos and Hellblade 2. Now a the first real next-gen game with true next gen features is up. So makes sense. Can't wait to see other AAA games and those running in 30 FP¨S gonna be bonkers, and when the engine gets updated in the future, high end PC and probably mid-gen consoles will push realism even further.

We have come a very long way: https://www.reddit.com/r/FortNiteBR/comments/zct1g6/aint_no_way_mfs_still_sayin_chapter_1_graphics/

Almost 2 gens above:

I keep saying this whenever I see it. If you want to do cross-gen, do it this way. No one cna brag about doing cross-gen in such way and thankfully the update is free unlike many examples that nearly nothing and charge you extras or even new full prices.

EatChildren · Dec 5, 2022

Sangral said:
I don't know. It's not that dark, even in completely unlit rooms or corners that you would really need it. But with looking closer at this, it really seems like this is something they did so you can really see your weapon better when aiming.

But it's so noticable, even when not aiming and being in well lit rooms or sometimes even outside, that I think it's completely against what Epic tried to accomplish with this brand new RT update, while it maybe was ok before, it now feels like a relic from older updates and ruins the real time lighting effect a bit.

I think stuff like this is just an example of drawing the line between simulating realistic imagery and rendering, and building a video game to be played. The illusion is broken a bit but even with this fancy tech update Epic's first and foremost goal is to make a video game that is playable, and them and everyone else will continue using rendering tricks to ensure clarity and readability of information. Particularly in a game like Fortnight, or any shooter really, where realistic sim-like play isn't the goal, and so designers are conscious of visual readability of player and enemy characters. And thus invisible light sources and/or shading is included to make them "pop".

It's probably something folk need to keep in mind even as games continue the foray into outrageously impressive real time ray traced GI and whatnot. End of the day, they're still video games, and they're still going to make concessions to lighting/shadows/textures/geometry for the sake of readability and play.

Kind of like how an overwhelming majority of films aren't actually shot with 'real' lighting. Off screen light sources and reflectors are regularly used to add subtle highlights and focus to ensure people and scenes are lit in a way that is attractive to the eye, drawing attention as necessary, even if it's not technically "realistic". Same goes for props and perspectives. Often it's a bunch of lies and bullshit, but our brains buy into the image for what it is.

silentq15 · Dec 5, 2022

I think what impresses me most about this update is even with all my settings up to the max with the ray tracing and everything going that on my 3080ti it plays around 80fps average. That is the most wild thing to me. I know I am the rare exception with my GPU but its still quite an accomplishment and can maintain that kind of framerate.

PLASTICA-MAN · Dec 5, 2022

EatChildren said:
I think stuff like this is just an example of drawing the line between simulating realistic imagery and rendering, and building a video game to be played. The illusion is broken a bit but even with this fancy tech update Epic's first and foremost goal is to make a video game that is playable, and them and everyone else will continue using rendering tricks to ensure clarity and readability of information. Particularly in a game like Fortnight, or any shooter really, where realistic sim-like play isn't the goal, and so designers are conscious of visual readability of player and enemy characters. And thus invisible light sources and/or shading is included to make them "pop".

It's probably something folk need to keep in mind even as games continue the foray into outrageously impressive real time ray traced GI and whatnot. End of the day, they're still video games, and they're still going to make concessions to lighting/shadows/textures/geometry for the sake of readability and play.

Kind of like how an overwhelming majority of films aren't actually shot with 'real' lighting. Off screen light sources and reflectors are regularly used to add subtle highlights and focus to ensure people and scenes are lit in a way that is attractive to the eye, drawing attention as necessary, even if it's not technically "realistic". Same goes for props and perspectives. Often it's a bunch of lies and bullshit, but our brains buy into the image for what it is.

Fortnite: the game of all kinds of paradoxes from Goku fighting Super Man while Kratos dancing to the most realistc cartoony graphics ever made, achieving WTH results even on machines like Series S while true current-gen games failed to do: https://www.reddit.com/r/FortNiteBR/comments/zcamap/new_graphics_are_so_good_even_on_series_s_its/

VariantX · Dec 5, 2022

writhingcorpse897 said:
Is there a way to opt out of playing with bots?

Yea this is definitely a balancing thing. Same thing happened with COD.

They had to either add character specific rim lighting into BFV or increase it greatly because players were taking advantage of the already noisy level geometry on some maps to perfectly blend into parts of the level and be totally invisible to other players.

DrScruffleton · Dec 5, 2022

Honesty, not sure if it's something my end, but the pictures here look way better than when I'm actually playing the game. I have an LG C9 OLED, series X. I'm close to saying it looks the same as before. I have it on 60 FPS. Is it only PC where people are seeing a clear difference?

benzy · Dec 5, 2022

matrixman92 said:
Honesty, not sure if it's something my end, but the pictures here look way better than when I'm actually playing the game. I have an LG C9 OLED, series X. I'm close to saying it looks the same as before. I have it on 60 FPS

You can switch back and forth if you go into the menu to enable/disable 120fps

DrScruffleton · Dec 5, 2022

benzy said:
You can switch back and forth if you go into the menu to enable/disable 120fps

I have a problem where I didn't even have that option in my game, so I manually set the system to 60 hz

Sangral · Dec 5, 2022

EatChildren said:
I think stuff like this is just an example of drawing the line between simulating realistic imagery and rendering, and building a video game to be played. The illusion is broken a bit but even with this fancy tech update Epic's first and foremost goal is to make a video game that is playable, and them and everyone else will continue using rendering tricks to ensure clarity and readability of information. Particularly in a game like Fortnight, or any shooter really, where realistic sim-like play isn't the goal, and so designers are conscious of visual readability of player and enemy characters. And thus invisible light sources and/or shading is included to make them "pop".

It's probably something folk need to keep in mind even as games continue the foray into outrageously impressive real time ray traced GI and whatnot. End of the day, they're still video games, and they're still going to make concessions to lighting/shadows/textures/geometry for the sake of readability and play.

Kind of like how an overwhelming majority of films aren't actually shot with 'real' lighting. Off screen light sources and reflectors are regularly used to add subtle highlights and focus to ensure people and scenes are lit in a way that is attractive to the eye, drawing attention as necessary, even if it's not technically "realistic". Same goes for props and perspectives. Often it's a bunch of lies and bullshit, but our brains buy into the image for what it is.

Sure, I completely agree with you and it's not the end of the world, but, with all the settings the game has, it wouldn't hurt them to make this an option for people who want to deactivate it, that would be a good solution. Either way, doesn't make the current tech less impressive.

ArchedThunder · Dec 5, 2022

Dictator said:
Are you certain you are not seeing shadow map popping, reflection detail popping, lighting popping and not the asset changing rapidly?

What ever it is it looks just like pop in and is just as distracting.

ArchedThunder | Fortnite | Xbox

A capture by ArchedThunder

www.xbox.com

EatChildren · Dec 5, 2022

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Fortnite: the game of all kinds of paradoxes from Goku fighting Super Man while Kratos dancing to the most realistc cartoony graphics ever made, achieving WTH results even on machines like Series S while true current-gen games failed to do: https://www.reddit.com/r/FortNiteBR/comments/zcamap/new_graphics_are_so_good_even_on_series_s_its/

Truly the greatest marvel/abomination of modern gaming.

Sangral said:
Sure, I completely agree with you and it's not the end of the world, but, with all the settings the game has, it wouldn't hurt them to make this an option for people who want to deactivate it, that would be a good solution. Either way, doesn't make the current tech less impressive.

Oh yeah definitely. It'd be nice if there was just a toggle to turn off the character shading/rim lighting so, at minimum, you could see how it all looked with totally natural, tonally consistent lumen. Even if reduced readability characters in combat/scenes, it'd still be nice to look it.

ArchedThunder said:
What ever it is it looks just like pop in and is just as distracting.

ArchedThunder | Fortnite | Xbox

A capture by ArchedThunder

www.xbox.com

Yeah, this is definitely heavy asset pop-in. I have no idea if I'm right, but it looks like there's two variants of assets: full high detail nanite scaling assets, and extremely detail placeholders. The latter appear to be used on a lot of environmental and building geometry for when you're jumping out of the bus, similar to PUBG, in order to conserver performance and asset streaming at the highest view distance/scale when you could technically be falling anywhere. Then when the engine is comfortable with the play space you're landing in, it swaps out the extremely low detail placeholders with the nanite assets. The nanite assets scale much, much more convincingly in increments while retaining a lot of the micro detail over distance, so once they're in play they look fantastic. But until then you've got low detail placeholders that jarringly swap to nanite assets, and looks like traditional LOD pop-in.

That's my guess, anyway.

Nintendo · Dec 5, 2022

Sangral said:
The only thing I really really don't like graphically because it sticks out like a sore thumb is this weird "magical" light source that's always on your character in dark areas. With all these real dynamic lighting and shadow effects this is just a bit disappointing. Why is this a thing and can I get rid of it?

This is for gameplay purposes and enemy visibility.

Strakt · Dec 5, 2022

Im getting so many stutters on my 3080. My FPS hovers around 80-90 but constant stutters everytime I turn the camera. I've played a ton of matches or have tried as people said it was the shaders caching.

Powerofthecloud · Dec 5, 2022

Strakt said:
Im getting so many stutters on my 3080. My FPS hovers around 80-90 but constant stutters everytime I turn the camera. I've played a ton of matches or have tried as people said it was the shaders caching.

It's totally fucked on pc right now. No getting around it. It plays better on my series x. This isn't a good sign for lumen on PC unless they can get this shader comp issue fixed sooner rather than later.

Powerofthecloud · Dec 5, 2022

Eggiem said:
Fortnite is the most impressive game on ~~PC and~~ consoles now. Amazing.

Fixed that for you :(

FuturaBold · Dec 5, 2022

Never played Fortnite, is between PS5 and XsX is one performing better than the other? Also does UE 5,1 support HDR?

Deleted member 18179 · Dec 5, 2022

FuturaBold said:
Never played Fortnite, is between PS5 and XsX is one performing better than the other? Also does UE 5,1 support HDR?

Series S has always had some performance issues, it's worse in latest. PS5 runs at a solid 60 fps with an option for 120

VanWinkle · Dec 5, 2022

I see tons of asset pop-in in this game. I also see some LOD changes in foliage in the distance. I wasn't expecting that.

Eggiem said:
Fortnite is the most impressive game on PC and consoles now. Amazing.

Hmm I'm not sure. Lighting wise, I have a hard time disagreeing. I also think level of detail is very good in general. But I think R&C Rift Apart looks far better other than some interior lighting scenarios and large bodies of water. It's got much better motion blur, textures, character models, post processing, RT reflection quality, etc.

Fortnite does make me very excited for the future of this generation, though.

ILikeFeet · Dec 5, 2022

I like this time lapse

View: https://twitter.com/wanimation2910/status/1599622100582830080?s=20&t=Z0-o8agGkcIKqTksCO41bw

MayorSquirtle · Dec 5, 2022

writhingcorpse897 said:
Is there a way to opt out of playing with bots?

Yea this is definitely a balancing thing. Same thing happened with COD.

There will always be some bots in every match, but if you're in all-bot lobbies then that'll stop after enough games.

Eggiem · Dec 5, 2022

Powerofthecloud said:
Fixed that for you :(

Whats most impressive on PC? Metro Exodus RT?

Slaythe · Dec 5, 2022

Strakt said:
Im getting so many stutters on my 3080. My FPS hovers around 80-90 but constant stutters everytime I turn the camera. I've played a ton of matches or have tried as people said it was the shaders caching.

Powerofthecloud said:
It's totally fucked on pc right now. No getting around it. It plays better on my series x. This isn't a good sign for lumen on PC unless they can get this shader comp issue fixed sooner rather than later.

Lower the draw distance to medium, that seems to have fixed most of that for me.

No other option did anything.

ArchedThunder · Dec 5, 2022

EatChildren said:
Yeah, this is definitely heavy asset pop-in. I have no idea if I'm right, but it looks like there's two variants of assets: full high detail nanite scaling assets, and extremely detail placeholders. The latter appear to be used on a lot of environmental and building geometry for when you're jumping out of the bus, similar to PUBG, in order to conserver performance and asset streaming at the highest view distance/scale when you could technically be falling anywhere. Then when the engine is comfortable with the play space you're landing in, it swaps out the extremely low detail placeholders with the nanite assets. The nanite assets scale much, much more convincingly in increments while retaining a lot of the micro detail over distance, so once they're in play they look fantastic. But until then you've got low detail placeholders that jarringly swap to nanite assets, and looks like traditional LOD pop-in.

That's my guess, anyway.

Here's a visible LoD in normal gameplay.

https://www.xbox.com/play/media/7EZ99UPXKH

writhingcorpse897 · Dec 5, 2022

Eggiem said:
Whats most impressive on PC? Metro Exodus RT?

Probably referring to the shader stutter on the PC version.

Powerofthecloud · Dec 5, 2022

Slaythe said:
Lower the draw distance to medium, that seems to have fixed most of that for me.

No other option did anything.

ok will try thanks!

writhingcorpse897 said:
Probably referring to the shader stutter on the PC version.

correct =<(

MarinZero · Dec 5, 2022

Another update and the long wait for HDR to be implemented continues. It's the only thing I'm still waiting for :(

Fortnite Chapter 4 to utilise Unreal Engine 5.1 (Nanite, Lumen, Virtual Shadow Maps, Global Illumination, Ray Tracing, TSR)

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