Forza Motorsport 7, Gran Turismo Sport and Project Cars 2: Tracking critical and commercial success

FriskyCanuck · Oct 25, 2017

The big three mainstream racing sims (or sim-lites for you pedants) have been released. How are all three faring?

Metacritic: 82% based on 17 reviews (PC), 86% based on 79 reviews (Xbox One)
OpenCritic: 85% based on 75 reviews

Metacritic: 75% based on 82 reviews
OpenCritic: 76% based on 64 reviews

Metacritic: 85% based on 24 reviews (PC), 82% based on 44 reviews (PS4), 84% based on 22 reviews (Xbox One)
OpenCritic: 82% based on 73 reviews

Would like to know some sales figures as they are released. All I know is that Forza 7 and Project Cars 2 have undersold compared to their predecessors in the UK. And according to SteamSpy, there are 89,528 owners of Project Cars 2 on Steam.

Anyone here played all three? I'm interested in your thoughts and impressions of the three in comparison to each other.

FriskyCanuck · Oct 26, 2017

Does anyone have any initial sales figures for GT Sport? I reckon it'll easily outsell the other two.

DriftingSpirit · Oct 26, 2017

FriskyCanuck said:
Does anyone have any initial sales figures for GT Sport? I reckon it'll easily outsell the other two.

~150K in Japan, 80-90K in UK (closer to 80K, I believe).

rrc1594 · Oct 26, 2017

Oh wow didn't know Forza 7 reviewed that well

JJShadow · Oct 26, 2017

FriskyCanuck said:
Does anyone have any initial sales figures for GT Sport? I reckon it'll easily outsell the other two.

According to Chart-track, GT Sport had better week one sales than GT1 and GT6 in UK and it sold three times what Forza 7 did on week one

Witness · Oct 26, 2017

GT Sport will sell the best but I think that they all clearly have an Achilles heel though and none of them will truly take off. Unfortunate since this should have been a great year for sim racing console fans, but they are all fucked in their own way. It's incredibly disappointing for me personally. I'm someone who buys Forza every year and has bought GT 1-5 but I'm skipping both. I would never have expected that.

ethomaz · Oct 26, 2017

Week 1 figures...

- GTS did 73.688 in UK retail only (MC public).
- GTS did 150.286 in Japan retail only (GFK from GAF leaker).

zyvorg · Oct 26, 2017

Never thought I'd see the day with more racing sims than arcade games.

FriskyCanuck · Oct 26, 2017

You guys think it was a mistake for Project Cars 2 to launch so close to Forza 7 and GT Sport? Sales are underwhelming and I think that Project Cars 2 gets lost in conversations in the midst of the fanboyism.

Kill3r7 · Oct 26, 2017

ethomaz said:
GTS did 73.688 in UK retail only.

Does that put it ahead or behind UCLL?

Deleted member 2254 · Oct 26, 2017

I think, in a way, all games confirmed their trend.
- Forza 7: Just like Forza 6, it didn't exactly revolutionize much, but as always it's a very competent and insanely good looking package with tons of content, and the usual MT/VIP/car pack mumbo-jumbo that attempts to get tons of money from people. I never cave in as the base games are already stuffed to begin with.
- GT Sport: This series is also in need for some changes, in many ways it's still carrying design faults from generations ago. This episode also managed to be a bit confusing with its online situation, and generally didn't sound like a big enough improvement over GT6 which felt a bit dated already.
- Project Cars 2: Just like the first game, incredibly ambitious and full of things to do with massive realism and all. And, just like the first game, it's broken in so many ways that it couldn't possibly get 90+ averages which, in case all its advertised features worked as intended, it probably could have achieved.

Forza 7 has the extra point of pushing the Xbox One X, on that the game looks absolutely bonkers. As for sales Forza and GT are big enough to sell well regardless, PC2 can't really compete with them and is a more hardcore sim so it shouldn't even attempt to fight with the others.

PhilouFelin · Oct 26, 2017

Assuming the following :

- that the next Forza Motorsport is at least 2 years away (my guess is that it launches with the next Xbox, but I could be wrong) and that Horizon 4 is the next one in line;

- that Gran Turismo Sport will be used as a platform for the rest of PS4's lifetime and that GT7 will be launching on the PS5 (just an educated guess);

- that the next Project Cars is at least 2 years away (right?).

What's next for sim/sim-lite games ?

Kill3r7 · Oct 26, 2017

PhilouFelin said:
Assuming the following :

- that the next Forza Motorsport game will be 2 years away (at least) and that Horizon 4 is the next one in line;

- that Gran Turismo Sport will be used as a platform for the rest of the PS4's lifetime and that GT7 will be launching on the PS5 (just an educated guess, could be wrong);

- that the next Project Cars is at least 2 years away (right?).

What's next for sim/sim-lite games ?

Outside of first party titles (GT/Forza) it does not appear as if the market is big enough for racing sims, at least on consoles. My guess would be a new Dirt and F1 game in 2018.

Zvonimir Boban · Oct 26, 2017

PhilouFelin said:
Assuming the following :

- that the next Forza Motorsport is at least 2 years away (my guess is that it launches with the next Xbox, but I could be wrong) and that Horizon 4 is the next one in line;

- that Gran Turismo Sport will be used as a platform for the rest of PS4's lifetime and that GT7 will be launching on the PS5 (just an educated guess);

- that the next Project Cars is at least 2 years away (right?).

What's next for sim/sim-lite games ?

Codemasters hoovered up a lot of talent from Evolution Studios, do we have any idea what they're working on atm?

TaKeRx · Oct 26, 2017

What hurt Forza was the lootcrate craze (Although F6 had it) even though it reviewed well.

GT is a great racer, but people were turned off by the fact that it's now mainly an online game and has less content than expected. The review score is also not helping.

Not really sure about PC2, but I bought the 1st one and was extremely disappointed.

Vadara · Oct 26, 2017

FriskyCanuck said:
You guys think it was a mistake for Project Cars 2 to launch so close to Forza 7 and GT Sport? Sales are underwhelming and I think that Project Cars 2 gets lost in conversations in the midst of the fanboyism.

PC2 is aimed at a subtly different audience, so I don't think it would be hurt too much, and it would have been overshadowed by them anyway no matter what anyway.

Niks · Oct 26, 2017

FairyEmpire said:
- GT Sport: This series is also in need for some changes, in many ways it's still carrying design faults from generations ago. This episode also managed to be a bit confusing with its online situation, and generally didn't sound like a big enough improvement over GT6 which felt a bit dated already.

Sorry, but this is such a bad and uninformed statement.

Deleted member 2254 · Oct 26, 2017

Niks said:
Sorry, but this is such a bad and uninformed statement.

Why so? There's still a lot of old design choices that stand out. GT6 came out when Forza 5 was around already, too.

Alo0oy · Oct 26, 2017

GTS would probably outsell all racing sims this gen combined.

TyrantGuardian · Oct 26, 2017

Been playing Forza 7 on PC as someone new to the series and completely ignoring loot crates/mods. Bit underwhelming feel especially in the force feedback department on my Driving Force GT in comparison to the sublime Dirt Rally. The biggest issue however are the stuttering menus and the frequent crashes.

The car interiors on the other hand... *drool*
94 Prelude was hella authentic, a car my family used to own that I miss dearly. Too bad the Mitsubishi FTO is missing from 7 as its my dream car.

ethomaz · Oct 26, 2017

Kill3r7 said:
Does that put it ahead or behind UCLL?

I don't know.

With digital UCLL sold more than U2 (84k).

GTS probably sold more if you include digital.

uncledonnie · Oct 26, 2017

I think Forza is more hurt by fatigue than loot crates at this point. They need to go to every 3 years.

thediamondage · Oct 26, 2017

Forza 7 feels unfinished imo. I expect games that are essentially sequels to build upon their previous games and make improvements and tweaks, not completely rip out things that worked really well.

Forza Horizon 3 had car clubs in game, and it was fantastic. You got to see how much friends were playing every week, it was nice competing with them for weekly points, it was cool competing with other car clubs, and yet there were a million things they could add in that could have made clubs even better. BZZZT, car clubs are gone in Forza 7.

Its been what, almost a month since launch, and THERE IS STILL NO FORZATHON EVENT. What the hell? Meanwhile there's been a forzathon every weekend on FH3. I love forzathon, it gives me goals to play for 2 hours or so in Forza every week, without I just don't really feel like doing anything (maybe thats an issue for me only, but FH3 has kinda trained me to just play for forzathon every weekend)

Auction house, same thing, still not in game.

The core of the game - cars, tracks, mods, races - is ok, although I admit I infinitely prefer the Forza Horizon style of game to the Motorsport circuit racing style. Even still, FM7 feels lesser than previous games in many ways, and thats completely ignoring the huge blowup over VIP (which they have addressed) and loot crates (not as much) which plagued the game the first two weeks.

Niks · Oct 26, 2017

FairyEmpire said:
Why so? There's still a lot of old design choices that stand out. GT6 came out when Forza 5 was around already, too.

saying GTS dosent sound like an improvement from GT6 is just lazy.

Improved UI, improved driving physics (praised in most reviews), improved car models, improved track models, liveries, massively improved online infrastructure, improved lighting, improved sounds. Of course, its not perfect, and content took a hit (and even that is debatable).

FriskyCanuck · Oct 26, 2017

Would this be a fair summary of the three's content?

Best car selection: Forza 7
Best multiplayer infrastructure: GT Sport
Best track selection: Project Cars 2

I'm not going to get into the single player career modes, as they are all distinct from each other and offer different things for people.

Deleted member 8408 · Oct 26, 2017

FriskyCanuck said:
Would this be a fair summary of the three's content?

Best car selection: Forza 7
Best multiplayer infrastructure: GT Sport
Best track selection: Project Cars 2

I'm not going to get into the single player career modes, as they are all distinct from each other and offer different things for people.

I'd also say PCars 2 has the most depth from a physics and Motorsport perspective. The amount of options you have when setting up races really is something. A race weekend anctually feels like a race weekend. That's something they've had nailed since the first game.

Having said that, as a platform I feel like GT Sport has the most potential. It will be interesting to see where it is in a years time. I hope they build on it and update it regularly with new content because what's there so far is very, very polished.

FriskyCanuck · Oct 26, 2017

GHG said:
I'd also say PCars 2 has the most depth from a physics and Motorsport perspective. The amount of options you have when setting up races really is something. A race weekend anctually feels like a race weekend. That's something they've had nailed since the first game.

Having said that, as a platform I feel like GT Sport has the most potential. It will be interesting to see where it is in a years time. I hope they build on it and update it regularly with new content because what's there so far is very, very polished.

Oh hey you made it over, are you going to make a new Project Cars 2 OT?

Yeah I like Project Cars 2's focus on real life motorsports. It's very unique for a mainstream racer.

Precious Tritium · Oct 26, 2017

If I was looking for a traditional GT campaign would Project Cars 2 be a good fit?

Deleted member 8408 · Oct 26, 2017

FriskyCanuck said:
Oh hey you made it over, are you going to make a new Project Cars 2 OT?

Yeah I like Project Cars 2's focus on real life motorsports. It's very unique for a mainstream racer.

Yeh I'll definitely be bringing it over! Just need to rework the main gif and then come up with a new title ;)

Precious Tritium said:
If I was looking for a traditional GT campaign would Project Cars 2 be a good fit?

If you're looking for a "caRPG" like the GT's of old were then you won't find it in PCars unfortunately, only current day Forza games have that to offer now.

Ravensmash · Oct 26, 2017

I was skeptical about getting Project Cars 2 on PS4, but got it as soon as people confirmed that the patch fixed most of the bigger problems.

Really enjoyed my time with it so far but also understand its far from perfect - but I can take that.

In a strange way, I overlook some of the problems due to sheer ambition and scope of it. The track selection is really impressive.

I just hope that SMS keep supporting it with thought out updates.

I did enjoy GT Sport demo and I'm considering the full version because it seems like a better choice for an online focus - Project Cars 2 just has lobbies and I'm yet to find consistently good races.

I think there's certainly a market for all three though.

GHG - good to see you here!

One request, can we please have the previous time trial challenge from before to start with? :)

Love me some Knockhill!

zoltek · Oct 26, 2017

A little surprised to see Project Cars 2 review so well compared to the other two. For some reason, I was under the, apparently misguided, impression that Cars 2 was a bit of a let down.

FriskyCanuck · Oct 26, 2017

zoltek said:
A little surprised to see Project Cars 2 review so well compared to the other two. For some reason, I was under the, apparently misguided, impression that Cars 2 was a bit of a let down.

I think most of the negative impressions were from the numerous bugs at launch. Especially for the console versions. I think the major ones have been addressed in patches and the remaining ones are mostly QOL bugs.

Deleted member 8408 · Oct 26, 2017

zoltek said:
A little surprised to see Project Cars 2 review so well compared to the other two. For some reason, I was under the, apparently misguided, impression that Cars 2 was a bit of a let down.

As Frisky said a lot of the negative impressions have come from people experiencing bugs in various scenarios but the core of the game is fantastic. If you don't experience/notice any then you'll have a great time.

It's also worth noting that the PC version is much much more polished than the console versions.

SolidSnakex · Oct 26, 2017

FairyEmpire said:
Why so? There's still a lot of old design choices that stand out. GT6 came out when Forza 5 was around already, too.

To add to what Niks said, GTS is getting dinged because it moved too far away from what some liked about the series (which is interesting because GT5/6 got dinged because they were too similar to past entries). Sport does a lot though in terms of fixing known issues with the series. The PS3 entries became well known for technical problems, but Sport eliminates those entirely. This entry is back to the level of polish that you expect from the brand. The UI from that generation were also known for being too cluttered and slow, but it's now fast. But perhaps most notable is that the series from the beginning has been criticized for not actually being that great when it comes to the actual act of racing. The entire reason why the Sport mode works is down to them actually nailing that aspect now. Racing is now a strong point of the series. They've even improved the AI enough that they can put up a fight and make single-player races enjoyable.

Even though it's going to end up being the lowest rated mainline GT, it's really laid a very strong foundation for the future of the franchise. The big thing I feel for them now is to begin outsourcing content (cars and tracks) to build up the roster for both and that'll pave the way for that single-player content. Because as it stands, Sport just couldn't work with the classic GT Mode because the variety in cars isn't as wide as the series is generally known for. That's supposed to come with the DLC.

DriftingSpirit · Oct 26, 2017

Kill3r7 said:
Does that put it ahead or behind UCLL?

ULL got the award for reaching 100K sales in UK recently.

ethomaz · Oct 26, 2017

Precious Tritium said:
If I was looking for a traditional GT campaign would Project Cars 2 be a good fit?

The funny fact is that most of events, if not all, found in previous GTs campaign can be found in GTS campaign... they just changed the way it is presented.

FriskyCanuck · Oct 27, 2017

Destructoid has given GT Sport a 6/10.

https://www.destructoid.com/review-gran-turismo-sport-469111.phtml

ethomaz · Oct 27, 2017

GTS Spain Retail Week 1: 30k

Week 1 Retail Cumulative: ~254k (JP + UK + ES).

Falchion · Oct 27, 2017

I have all three of those series last entry so I'm sure I'll eventually end up playing all three of these as well. Project Cars 2 will probably be the first one I go for just because of the breadth of its content.

Deleted member 11426 · Oct 27, 2017

These reviewed as I expected, but I've already fallen off forza 7. I'd love to give pcars 2 a try, but no demo and I'm only on console.

FriskyCanuck · Nov 9, 2017

Project Cars 2 on Steam is trending downwards:

1,653 players is the lowest 24-hour peak thus far.

According to Steamspy, Project Cars 2 is sitting at around 95,000 owners.

ghibli99 · Nov 9, 2017

Surprised and not surprised how quickly I tired of both Forza 7 and GT Sport. I actually found GT to be more interesting from a design perspective, and I appreciated its style and polish. Just doesn't feel like a proper GT, which I know makes a lot of GTS fans roll their eyes, but I can't help it. Forza 7, despite its iterative features, felt... iterative. I feel like it lost its soul after 4. Haven't tried Project Cars 2 yet, but I found the first one damn-near unplayable when using a controller on PC (and I didn't have the space for a wheel). Hopefully that's better with 2.

Deleted member 5604 · Nov 9, 2017

ethomaz said:
The funny fact is that most of events, if not all, found in previous GTs campaign can be found in GTS campaign... they just changed the way it is presented.

funny fact is, that's not really a fact at all. Most of the events found in GTS' campaign were events featured in the past game as the start of the career mode or something additional on top of the career mode as an extra, the bulk of what made up the career modes of the past (the multitude of tournaments/cups, special one make events) are not featured in GTS' campaign. What the change in presentation has done is bring these smaller events that did feature in the past (many that got ignored like the mission challenges in GT4), to the forefront and presented it as the main campaign.

Also, a traditional GT campaign is made up of more factors than just plain events as well (like the progression system & car upgrades and what not), you're not really getting the same experience in GTS. The "upgrade" system is a joke, and random cars are getting thrown at you left and right, progression becomes really unsatisfactory as a result when you get a super high powered car within a few hours of playing at the start like some people did (basically an end goal in the past game is just getting handed to you for just driving for a bit).

Salmone_D_Oro · Nov 9, 2017

They have all huge problems . Raceroom and PC sims are better imho .

TheRed · Nov 9, 2017

Project Cars 2 is my favorite, and I hated the first game. It's really fun and not too buggy at least on the PC and VR is a massive step up for me over other games that don't offer it. I also have Forza 7 and while it's pretty the racing feels so boring compared to playing Project Cars 2, especially with using a wheel. Using a wheel is garbage to me in Forza.

vereor · Nov 9, 2017

FairyEmpire said:
Why so? There's still a lot of old design choices that stand out. GT6 came out when Forza 5 was around already, too.

GTS has been rejected by fans because it changes basically every core aspect of the series

Salmone_D_Oro · Nov 9, 2017

TheRed said:
Project Cars 2 is my favorite, and I hated the first game. It's really fun and not too buggy at least on the PC and VR is a massive step up for me over other games that don't offer it. I also have Forza 7 and while it's pretty the racing feels so boring compared to playing Project Cars 2, especially with using a wheel. Using a wheel is garbage to me in Forza.

I tried PC2 but AI was so bad . Lap times were strange between qualifying sessions . Like 5 seconds faster than you without a reason when you clicked "simulate session" .

Aerogamer · Nov 9, 2017

GTS was disappointing to me, they need to turn it around for whatever there next GT is. Forza 7 was Forza, lot's of content and consistent, good game and looks amazing on the X. I have not tried Project Cars yet. I think that we will see Forza Horizon 4 as the launch title for the next Xbox around 2020-2021 instead of Forza 8.

FriskyCanuck · Nov 9, 2017

Salmone_D_Oro said:
I tried PC2 but AI was so bad . Lap times were strange between qualifying sessions . Like 5 seconds faster than you without a reason when you clicked "simulate session" .

They've already patched this, the qualifying times magically improving bug.

OG_Thrills · Nov 9, 2017

Just looking at the pal charts specifically when it comes to Forza 7, It hasn't sold enough to register in any EU territory outside of the UK. In comparison this is how GT sport opened in France.

And I suspect that With Christmas Bundles and the PSVR bundle the game that was received worst by critics may surpass expectations. Despite the fact that It got very little advertising, at least here in the UK.

Forza Motorsport 7, Gran Turismo Sport and Project Cars 2: Tracking critical and commercial success

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