Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation and Discussion |OT|: "Now You're Playing with Super Power!"

[z0m3le]

Tell that to Switch devs that said that alongside CPU, Switch memory bandwidth is biggest Switch bottleneck,
fact is that low memory bandwidth is limiting factor in pushing games visuals (for instance more textures or higher resolution textures).

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Yes, the Switch's memory bus couldn't handle the GPU and CPU's needs, but efficiencies are much higher on newer architectures, and the memory bandwidth I'm discussing is much larger than the current models... if I can lift 25lbs and I'm lifting the GPU and the CPU, but together they are 35lbs, I have a problem. If I can lift 88lbs and I have a 50lbs GPU and a 25lbs CPU, I can lift that. So yeah it's probably going to actually need me to lift 90lbs, so bottlenecks can occur, but this is a lot better than the current situation. The main thing I'm trying to get across is a system's memory bandwidth is sort of about what that system needs. The PS4 had a GPU and CPU that required that 176GB/s of memory bandwidth, the Switch only needs probably 30-35GB/s of memory bandwidth, if it had that, it would no longer be a bottleneck, that make sense?

How you would be shocked when you several times you wrote that you expecting 256GB? :D

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I don't expect it, I think it could happen, just like I think I could win my fantasy league, doesn't mean I expect to.

 

[jon bones]

Thanks for this - really excited for what comes next

 

[ILikeFeet]

Considering a GT 1030 can play games like Jedi Fallen Order and Red Dead 3, the Switch Pro will be fine

 

[ArchedThunder]

Here is some specs we can talk about in the meantime:
GPU: 1.2TFLOPs Ampere (about the same as XB1S), features DLSS, basically turning the device into something right between a PS4 and a PS4 Pro when docked.
CPU: 8 A78C cores at 1.2GHz (better than any last gen console)
RAM: 8GB at 88GB/s
Storage: 256GB UFS 2.1 (850MB/s)
Handheld 700GFLOPs + DLSS to achieve better than XB1S performance, 720p MiniLCD display.

This is a low ball spec, I think we might see 1.5TFLOPs and 1.5GHz 8 core CPU, but Nintendo often surprises me, so lets go with a ~2.5x increase in performance here, which seems reasonable given Mariko could have provided a ~2x increase.

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720p doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Skittzo]

Love that new thread smell. Great OP Dakhil!

 

[ILikeFeet]

720p doesn't sound right to me.

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Hey, you'd get really good battery life!

 

[Deleted member 37917]

In handheld, something like a XB1 or PS4 after DLSS, but with a much better CPU.
In docked, something twice as good as a XB1 or PS4 after DLSS, still with a much better CPU. The PS4 Pro is a 4.2TFLOPs machine, the specs I gave just 4 posts above your post, would be like a ~3TFLOPs version of a PS4 Pro, something right between the PS4 and PS4 Pro, this is on the low end and only realistic because of DLSS.

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And as compared to a Series S?

 

[Sardello]

Hey, you'd get really good battery life!

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Jokes aside, a system allowing you to chose additional ways to save battery would be great. Now we can adjust the scree brightness, but being able to work on the resolution would be nice as well

 

[z0m3le]

And as compared to a Series S?

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What I outlined above is sort of what I believe the minimum specs probably is. I said thanks to DLSS, it would seem like a 3TFLOPs PS4 Pro with a better CPU, the PS4 Pro is 4.2TFLOPs, the XSS has a 25% increase in performance over GCN, so it's 4TFLOPs actually is more like 5TFLOPs PS4 Pro with a better CPU.

so ~3/5th of a XSS after DLSS.

 

[Deleted member 37917]

so ~3/5th of a XSS after DLSS.

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👍🏾

That's pretty good. Better than OG switch to XB1S. And we still got Witcher 3.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Jokes aside, a system allowing you to chose additional ways to save battery would be great. Now we can adjust the scree brightness, but being able to work on the resolution would be nice as well

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While you would save on GPU consumption, you wouldn't save much on screen consumption. You're still illumination 1920x1080 pixels, regardless of your source resolution. If Nintendo had a pixel perfect mode and an oled screen, then you'd see savings

 

[Thugstas]

Be careful with that. even if true.... first batch are always low profile

 

[b3llydrum]

Great, new thread. I hope we get an official announcement this year because otherwise I'll go crazy.

 

[Gay Bowser]

720p doesn't sound right to me.

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I'd much, much much rather have a higher quality (for example, laminated glass) 720p panel than a panel that was similar in quality to the current Switch but got to tick off "1080p!" on a spec sheet.

 

[JershJopstin]

Considering a GT 1030 can play games like Jedi Fallen Order and Red Dead 3, the Switch Pro will be fine

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It'd be pretty nice if the 1030 ran Red Dead 3 but maybe slow down there

edit: just remembered revolver exists, so i guess you're right

720p doesn't sound right to me.

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It's weird because I want 720p for backwards compatibility but I'm not sure it's actually all that great for games built with the machine in mind.

 

[Skittzo]

720p doesn't sound right to me.

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Anything higher could be seen as an unnecessary waste of battery life. Of course it could also depend on how cost efficient 720p screens are, 1080p might actually be cheaper since few devices use 720p anymore.

But I think 720p is probably a good baseline expectation.

 

[Helix]

it begins.....

in a new thread

great work on the compilation OP!

 

[Metal Gear Miyamoto]

Have been a lurker throughout the last thread but just wanted to say thank you to thread regulars like z0mbie, thugstas, Alovon11, Thraktor for always keeping the discussion interesting. Looking forward to what this thread is going to offer up.

 

[Gay Bowser]

Of course it could also depend on how cost efficient 720p screens are, 1080p might actually be cheaper since few devices use 720p anymore.

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Amazon still uses 600p screens in their Fire 7 tablet. And the Fire HD 8 is still 720p. That's a pretty good indicator that lower-resolution screens are still cheaper.

 

[Skittzo]

Amazon still uses 600p screens in their Fire 7 tablet. And the Fire HD 8 is still 720p. That's a pretty good indicator that lower-resolution screens are still cheaper.

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Okay yeah, then 720p seems likely. Unless they really really want to push VR but I can see a more premium SKU doing that instead.

 

[Pooroomoo]

Be careful with that. even if true.... first batch are always low profile

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Can you clarify what you mean by "first batch are always low profile"? I am not asking for information or hints, I just don't understand what you wrote. As far as I am concerned you can explain with an example using fish... (or escargots since you're French 😂)

Added: Just to clarify why this is not clear to me: the way I read what you write, you meant be to careful with all these predictions because the revision might initially ("first batch") be lower powered than the predictions. But that doesn't make sense, either it is lower powered or it isn't, unless you think there are several revisions that are going to come out one after the other (?) But you also wrote "always" ("first batch are always"). And usually revisions don't come in batches. So I just don't understand what you wrote

 

[Tora]

Here is some specs we can talk about in the meantime:
GPU: 1.2TFLOPs Ampere (about the same as XB1S), features DLSS, basically turning the device into something right between a PS4 and a PS4 Pro when docked.
CPU: 8 A78C cores at 1.2GHz (better than any last gen console)
RAM: 8GB at 88GB/s
Storage: 256GB UFS 2.1 (850MB/s)
Handheld 700GFLOPs + DLSS to achieve better than XB1S performance, 720p MiniLCD display.

This is a low ball spec, I think we might see 1.5TFLOPs and 1.5GHz 8 core CPU, but Nintendo often surprises me, so lets go with a ~2.5x increase in performance here, which seems reasonable given Mariko could have provided a ~2x increase.

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That's the most realistic one i've seen so far, though is 8 cores actually feasible in terms of cost? Why wouldn't they just stick to 4 cores; 8 makes last gen ports immensely easier to port over, as well as the RAM but just wondering

 

[Momo]

Thanks for all your work!

 

[RennanNT]

4 pages already, wow... Anyway, thanks for the compilation Dakhil.

Now, back to reading posts.

 

[Skittzo]

That's the most realistic one i've seen so far, though is 8 cores actually feasible in terms of cost? Why wouldn't they just stick to 4 cores; 8 makes last gen ports immensely easier to port over, as well as the RAM but just wondering

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I'm no expert but I think I remember in the last thread people saying that A78 cores don't come in a 4 core package, they come in either 6 or 8. At least in standard applications.

 

[Tora]

I'm no expert but I think I remember in the last thread people saying that A78 cores don't come in a 4 core package, they come in either 6 or 8. At least in standard applications.

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Ahh interesting, thanks!

I imagine that one core reserved for the OS would be a lot more capable compared to the current setup on Switch

 

[——RipTide——]

.

 

[SmittyWerbenManJensen]

I'm hoping for something substantial but am expecting something minor, as a way to hopefully not be too disappointed.

: /

 

[oneroom]

My concern is that if a console like the one speculated in the thread were to happen, Nintendo might demand $60 for DLSS updates for games they've already released.
They demanded $60 for Skyward Sword HD which does not utilize DLSS
I don't get it, but it seems Nintendo (Zelda) fans are willing to pay for it
Maybe $60 is an exaggeration lol.
But it does seem possible that if Nintendo supports DLSS they could charge money in return.

 

[Graben]

Nice OP looking forward to the reveal.

 

[Tesla]

Great OP!

 

[Mr Swine]

Oh is this Thread that replaces the other one about the Switch Pro?

 

[Zedark]

Oh is this Thread that replaces the other one about the Switch Pro?

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Yep

 

[z0m3le]

My concern is that if a console like the one speculated in the thread were to happen, Nintendo might demand $60 for DLSS updates for games they've already released.
They demanded $60 for Skyward Sword HD which does not utilize DLSS
I don't get it, but it seems Nintendo (Zelda) fans are willing to pay for it
Maybe $60 is an exaggeration lol.
But it does seem possible that if Nintendo supports DLSS they could charge money in return.

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We do love our capitalism. Still skyward sword is a 10 year old game with like 3.7M copies over it's life on a platform that passed 100 Million units. The game more than any other Zelda needed an HD make over, and the controls need to be reworked. I don't even think I'm getting it, I didn't really like it the first time I played it, and as big of a fan of the series I am, the series needed a reboot, this game showed.

 

[Dekuman]

Thank you for the OP Dakhil , now i wonder if this thread will hit 20k before Super Switch gets announced. XD

 

[Skittzo]

My concern is that if a console like the one speculated in the thread were to happen, Nintendo might demand $60 for DLSS updates for games they've already released.
They demanded $60 for Skyward Sword HD which does not utilize DLSS
I don't get it, but it seems Nintendo (Zelda) fans are willing to pay for it
Maybe $60 is an exaggeration lol.
But it does seem possible that if Nintendo supports DLSS they could charge money in return.

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Skyward Sword is a game that not only needed to be ported to a brand new platform with wildly different architecture, it also needed a major overhaul in terms of controls and visuals. You may not believe that's worth $60 (and that's fine) but that's not even remotely similar to the amount of work needed to implement DLSS.

 

[JershJopstin]

My concern is that if a console like the one speculated in the thread were to happen, Nintendo might demand $60 for DLSS updates for games they've already released.
They demanded $60 for Skyward Sword HD which does not utilize DLSS
I don't get it, but it seems Nintendo (Zelda) fans are willing to pay for it
Maybe $60 is an exaggeration lol.
But it does seem possible that if Nintendo supports DLSS they could charge money in return.

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Nah, I'm just not expecting DLSS updates at all for prior games. Potentially resolution and frame target bumps but nothing more.

 

[Deleted member 32106]

My concern is that if a console like the one speculated in the thread were to happen, Nintendo might demand $60 for DLSS updates for games they've already released.
They demanded $60 for Skyward Sword HD which does not utilize DLSS
I don't get it, but it seems Nintendo (Zelda) fans are willing to pay for it
Maybe $60 is an exaggeration lol.
But it does seem possible that if Nintendo supports DLSS they could charge money in return.

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$60? Pfffff, nextgen is always about $70

 

[whoamiifnotwhoiam]

I was thinking about how major the whole implementation of DLSS into mobile chips can be. I am not sure if it has been hinted either the possible Switch 'Pro' will have a Tegra chip with DLSS capabilities or the dock will have a chipset that enables the DLSS features (or something of the sorts), but if it's a mobile chip, it's actually a big feature! Having this top-tier technology on a mobile chip would be really great for many different applications. Glad to see Nvidia trying to step a bit into this world, A.I in mobile enviroments are really helpful.

 

[Skittzo]

I was thinking about how major the whole implementation of DLSS into mobile chips can be. I am not sure if it has been hinted either the possible Switch 'Pro' will have a Tegra chip with DLSS capabilities or the dock will have a chipset that enables the DLSS features (or something of the sorts), but if it's a mobile chip, it's actually a big feature! Having this top-tier technology on a mobile chip would be really great for many different applications. Glad to see Nvidia trying to step a bit into this world, A.I in mobile enviroments are really helpful.

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DLSS in the dock is not possible, DLSS requires direct input from and to the renderer. So if it's in this device it will be in the mobile chip.

 

[ILikeFeet]

That's the most realistic one i've seen so far, though is 8 cores actually feasible in terms of cost? Why wouldn't they just stick to 4 cores; 8 makes last gen ports immensely easier to port over, as well as the RAM but just wondering

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Chip cost is a function of the size, not the core counts. 8 cores are more expensive because they're larger, but if the chip size is smaller thanks to 8nm, then it's whatever. They're gonna clock this low so yields will be good anyway. That's a lot of chips per wafer

I'm no expert but I think I remember in the last thread people saying that A78 cores don't come in a 4 core package, they come in either 6 or 8. At least in standard applications.

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Ahh interesting, thanks!

I imagine that one core reserved for the OS would be a lot more capable compared to the current setup on Switch

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A78s do come in 4 core set ups. You're thinking of the A78c

 

[Tora]

Chip cost is a function of the size, not the core counts. 8 cores are more expensive because they're larger, but if the chip size is smaller thanks to 8nm, then it's whatever. They're gonna clock this low so yields will be good anyway. That's a lot of chips per wafer


A78s do come in 4 core set ups. You're thinking of the A78c

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Thanks for the clarification, appreciate it

 

[JershJopstin]

All this 720p talk has me curious; if that does end up being the screen resolution, would this be a significant upgrade for those with 1080p TVs? It'd be noticable, sure, but I'm not confident it'd be worth the cost of upgrading for a while.

 

[RennanNT]

My concern is that if a console like the one speculated in the thread were to happen, Nintendo might demand $60 for DLSS updates for games they've already released.
They demanded $60 for Skyward Sword HD which does not utilize DLSS
I don't get it, but it seems Nintendo (Zelda) fans are willing to pay for it
Maybe $60 is an exaggeration lol.
But it does seem possible that if Nintendo supports DLSS they could charge money in return.

Click to shrink...

People wouldn't pay that much for graphical upgrades. People are paying that because they want to play on the Switch, not on Wii or Wii U, and because of extra content.

If there's one thing to be truly concerned, it would be Nintendo using the opportunity to charge $70 as well.

 

[Dragoncaine]

Such an awesome, thorough breakdown in the OP. Well done!

 

[z0m3le]

I was thinking about how major the whole implementation of DLSS into mobile chips can be. I am not sure if it has been hinted either the possible Switch 'Pro' will have a Tegra chip with DLSS capabilities or the dock will have a chipset that enables the DLSS features (or something of the sorts), but if it's a mobile chip, it's actually a big feature! Having this top-tier technology on a mobile chip would be really great for many different applications. Glad to see Nvidia trying to step a bit into this world, A.I in mobile enviroments are really helpful.

Click to shrink...

It's DLSS on the mobile chip, it's part of the rendering pipeline, so it can't be separated from the GPU currently. Nvidia has a technology that can take a displayed image and upscale it via AI done on the cuda cores, it has some good results, the old thread had a post about the experiment too.

Anyways yeah mobile GPU with DLSS is crazy stuff, talking about doubling the performance of mobile hardware.

 

[LavaBadger]

This is a very nice compilation thread. Was just trying to separate rumor from speculation yesterday.

 

[YolkFolk]

My concern is that if a console like the one speculated in the thread were to happen, Nintendo might demand $60 for DLSS updates for games they've already released.
They demanded $60 for Skyward Sword HD which does not utilize DLSS
I don't get it, but it seems Nintendo (Zelda) fans are willing to pay for it
Maybe $60 is an exaggeration lol.
But it does seem possible that if Nintendo supports DLSS they could charge money in return.

Click to shrink...

Makes me laugh when people think 'Nintendo fans' make up anything other than a small % of the Switch audience. Look to the Wii U to see how many Nintendo fans are really out there.

The vast majority of people buying games on Switch are just normal people buying games for their console. Some probably won't even be aware Skyward Sword was an older game as is the case with some of the Wii U ports.

 

[Mr Swine]

Yep

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Oh noice

 

[ILikeFeet]

All this 720p talk has me curious; if that does end up being the screen resolution, would this be a significant upgrade for those with 1080p TVs? It'd be noticable, sure, but I'm not confident it'd be worth the cost of upgrading for a while.

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I'd say yes. It means more games potentially at a higher frame rate and IQ