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Game of Thrones S8 |OT3| Best season evar. (FULL SPOILERS) (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Deleted member 2802
- Start date
Yes she was devastated and shocked. That doesn't really equate to "fucking hates"
I read some of it lol. I used to think I wanted Cersei to be the final boss but after seeing her go down with such a whimper I do wish it had gone the other way. I really expected her to pull some shit with the wildfire too and was pretty disappointed with how passive her final moments were. It would've still gotten the job done of making Dany look like a villain to the public since she would've been the catalyst for the destruction, but there would've been more complexity to it than just "she lost it and decided to burn everyone."
It's funny to think there was a time when my biggest fear for Dany's fate was that she'd have to sacrifice herself to kill the Night King, but now I would've preferred that as well. Having her choose to give up everything she'd ever wanted for the sake of saving the world would've been a hard decision for her and much more interesting to watch. I always believed in Dany's goodness though so naturally I would've preferred a more noble end for her. Anything really would've been preferable to them backing the bus right over her character in a sudden attempt to justify her murder.
There's every indication that Emilia Clarke's pained expression on camera when asked what she thinks is genuine. Of course she hates it. She's been asked to play a character, and doing so well over a long period requires a certain amount of transfer of one's own traits to that of the character. She wanted to see her character thrive and overcome her weaknesses, but what she got in the script was doom. The writers took Daenerys to King's Landing and then damned her.
This has nothing to do with whether Season 8 is well written. A popular character with flaws may have a redemption arc in typical heroic fiction. Just not, it seems, in fiction written by George Martin. I'm a bit surprised that some viewers have yet to recognise this important distinction, after eight seasons of scheming and sudden death.
"Best season ever!"
If you can't read between the lines in that interview or the one where Dinklage is praising D&D as writers while looking like his family are being held hostage off- camera I don't know what to tell you.
If you can't read between the lines in that interview or the one where Dinklage is praising D&D as writers while looking like his family are being held hostage off- camera I don't know what to tell you.
What makes it seem like his "family is held hostage" exactly? I don't think he talks about Game of Thrones any differently than he talks about My Dinner With Herve in the same interview. Except of course he is avoiding giving any out spoilers, hence zipping up the mouth emote. Was he dishonest about his compliments about Liz Himelstein too? Though it's also a HBO produced film, so maybe he really fucking hates Elizabeth Himelstein and thinks her contributions were worthless, but just can't say it because they got his family.
Edit: Here's his comments from Entertainment Weekly
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I wish Dany had killed the NK and died in the process. I had a similar idea like BDS's, Bran and NK have a conversation where they discuss the equilibrium of nature and humanity -- that it was time for the era of man to end so that the course of nature could be restored.
Jon eventually crowned king, and his first and last act is to make the seven Kingdoms free and independent. He has the throne destroyed and leaves.
Jon eventually crowned king, and his first and last act is to make the seven Kingdoms free and independent. He has the throne destroyed and leaves.
I don't know if Peter Dinklage likes or hates the ending, but I'd wager it is the latter.
Watching an intelligent character you've played over several seasons turn into a mouth piece for the show writers so they can push a last minute hack job of an ending probably doesn't leave a good taste, even if you've become hand of the king.
Watching an intelligent character you've played over several seasons turn into a mouth piece for the show writers so they can push a last minute hack job of an ending probably doesn't leave a good taste, even if you've become hand of the king.
I mean they always described the ending as bittersweet, and that's exactly what it was.
People judging the writing while simultaneously proposing that the Night King and Bran should've had a hokey conversation about the state of humanity.....despite literally zero inclination that the former even understands anything about humans but body language let alone the current version of English given
- his age, (1000s of years..)
- isolation away from civilization (1000s of years as he had lackeys do work for him)
-white walker language literally sounds like ice cracking so why would Bran understand that let alone know how to respond
-The NK has never been shown doing anything but observing, threatening, and killing and that goes doubly so for his forces
He worked with what they gave him. The issue was the script.
Lol it's like the show had been building towards the ending everyone
Jon convinces Dany of the white walkers by showing her cave paintings drawn with crayon. "Hokey" isn't something new to the series.
There are a lot of similarities.
Plot threads and characters that were built up to be something going nowhere and being unceremoniously discarded, ridiculous and sudden (from the viewer's perspective) changes to character personalities that go completely against everything we've come to know about them, characters that used to be smart acting dumb as rocks for seemingly no reason, the throwing out of in-universe logic and consistency, sUbVeRtINg ExPeCtAtIoNs, etc. all set to amazing cinematography and visuals and great performances.
Sorry but there is a clear difference in tone when he's talking about D&D. It's like D&D got Bran to warg into him so that he would say what he said about them.
People are still caping for the show and writers?
They're awful, the show final season is awful. It retroactively ruins 4 brilliant seasons of entertainment as everything was pointless.
Ending was far from bittersweet, too.
Danaerys was done dirty.
They're awful, the show final season is awful. It retroactively ruins 4 brilliant seasons of entertainment as everything was pointless.
Ending was far from bittersweet, too.
Danaerys was done dirty.
Let's be serious for a minute. Game of Thrones has never been a series where you could have serious expectations that a well loved, beautifully drawn character with great prospects would survive any given episode. It's not heroic fiction even if sometimes the presence of a dragon or a wizard might lead the unwary to think otherwise.
I've no interest in the Star Wars films, but you can't say Season 8 of Game of Thrones came from nowhere. The series has its massacres and its unexpected outcomes, as people who are fans of Kat Stark and Oberyn and Tywin will be well aware. Characters aren't always what you expect. You've got a fellow who commits attempted murder in the first episode and rapes his sister over the body of their son in another, but he has many admirable qualities. If some viewers expected Game of Thrones to end up like the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings or the David Lynch Dune, they weren't paying attention.
At least you acknowledge only the first 4 seasons were brilliant.
The show has been off the rails for the latter 4 seasons, outside of some good episodes here and there. I know it's the finale but I never expected to be completely satisfied after being disappointed for 3 years prior...
One of THE main characters being killed after the tragedy of finally getting what she wanted but losing herself in the process is tragic. So while the ending is essentially the closest thing to a happily ever after, there's still the underlying feeling that Dany had a tragic ending. Jaime Lannister refused his redemption. Greyworm lost the love of his life and might even die due to disease based on where he's going, (coincidentally even if missandei hadn't died this would've always been an uncertain part of their future). Even the Starks are once again all separated despite spending so much time trying to reach each other. So even though they all moved up in the world, it's not what I would call a traditional happily ever after.
Uh season 7 is not indicative of the hokey writing all along. 7 and 8 are on par quality wise.
Its crazy that we still need to make this argument. And even Dany not getting a happy ending is totally fine considering she was a mass murdering psychopath by the end of it, so her dying means nothing in terms of a happy ending. In fact Dany living would have been far more bitter and dark than had she died, which was a happy ending.
My thoughts exactly. I was either hoping for a miraculous turn around given the extra time or just to enjoy it continue crashing and burning but I went in expecting the same quality of writing as the past few seasons, that way I couldn't be disappointed and only surprised if they actually managed to turn the writing around.
Calling people mad for seeing exactly whats there sure is a thing.
Daenerys was a mass murdered so why would she get a happy ending at that point? Her fall is "tragic" but that's not exactly bittersweet. Everyone that remained a good guy got a happy ending. The Starks aren't together because they don't want to stay together in the North, but nothing prevents them from doing so. It's not even a, "I can never go home again." But more, "I can go home when I feel like it, but not right now."
Literally I struggle to think of another show with a happier ending in recent memory. I have to go back to Lost or something to find an ending thats this nice to all of the good guys, including most of the side characters. Calling this ending bitter sweet is absurd.
*Repeatedly argues about a season of television he hasn't actually seen yet*
"Guys can we get serious already?"
They really needed to go all in on evil Bran. And hinting the WW were back.
That's not what I meant at all. The story has had plenty of *shocking* and unexpected moments, but they all made sense in context and based off what we had seen on screen before those moments happened. They were only ever truly shocking because it's not common for a series to kill off popular main characters. The deaths of Katelyn and Tywin are two great examples of that. There were clear causes in the events leading up to their deaths that made sense in the universe.
I can say that a lot of Season 8 came from nowhere and felt completely non sequitur in nature. People can talk about foreshadowing and choose to interpret previous events in the show to justify some of the things that happened, but it doesn't change the hamfisted execution that made many of those things feel completely random.
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For the umpteenth time, who survives isn't the issue. Who wins the throne isn't the issue. How their character is written and their actions leading up to their death is the issue. This incredibly zoomed out, hypothetical view of the show is not useful for discussion. "This isn't your standard trope-filled high fantasy" is the start of a discussion, not the end of it. Writers need to write things in a way that makes people believe in what they are writing. Even if it's not a happy ending, it should be satisfying because it feels as though it couldn't have gone any other way. Good writing isn't just a series of "and then, and then, and then"s
As for the bolded: That's the thing. They almost always are what you expect (in the source material and what's adapted from it). The surprises and twists come from the characters acting in character, and that coming into contact with the larger machinations, plot, and other characters acting in character.
You're talking about the people complaining as if they are upset because the ending was too complicated and morally complex for them. It wasn't, and you saying "did they expect lord of the rings?" shows you still don't understand the issues people have with the later seasons, and the last one in particular. Besides, if people expected lord of the rings, D&D certainly ripped off enough from Jackson's Return of the King in the last episode to make them wonder.
lmao
Now this is the bitter ending.
Its only true because when you think about it Bran really is an evil mofo.
Thats the thing, this ending is essentially lord of the rings. I havent seen anyone complain about the ending not being happy enough. Like I havent seen a single post arguing that they didnt like it because it was too dark or sad.
Oh and let's also talk about the fact that Bran isn't Bran. They're a person with Bran's face and body, but the bright eyed little boy who had dreams of being a knight is no longer there. He has no desires. He just does what he thinks will lead to the best outcome. Dany was a mass murderer but Jon still very clearly loved her and didn't wanna kill her despite what she had become. You lay out the events, and even though all the Starks got what they want, the lead up to it cost a shit ton.
Why would we need a hint that WW are back?
There was a rumor we were discussing for a while in the leak thread that apparently Bran has a vision and sees "there must always be a Night King" (obvious Warcraft copy) which is partly why Jon goes to the Wall. That also put some of us further down the rabbit hole and were wondering if Drogon would take Danys body beyond the Wall (House of Undying vision) to become the Night Queen.
Cooler ending for Dany, more thematic ending for Jon, makes Ep3 better in retrospect. Wish any of it happened.
That's not a bittersweet "ending," that's what Bran has been since the start of the show and he's been the 3ER for three seasons. Again, not an ending. That's like saying the ending is "bittersweet" because Ned Stark's head got chopped off. Also, it's hard to speak about Bran not "being there" or having "desires" when the show has no idea at any given moment what Bran can feel or wants.
The fact that the show was well written in the beginning, and then wasn't by the end, was quite bittersweet.
So basically yet another fan theory.....
Bran doesn't want the throne, he literally says as much during the scene where they decide he should be king. But he's the 3ER and as no emotion whatsoever. And Bran absolutely still had emotion and desires before becoming the 3ER what're you talking about? He couldn't become a knight ofc but that doesn't mean him becoming the 3ER didn't drastically change him.
Assuming you don't have me blocked cus I was a massive unecessary A-hole in the other thread, this is great but it could be a bit better without the six episode limit.
There should be (or should have been) at minimum another 4 episodes (preferably another season instead) of them finding out about the Night Kings intentions and so on.
Eh, What else would it mean?
Fortunately that happened to him in season 5 so he probbaly got used to it a while back.
He says, "why do you think I came all this way." So, that completely contradicts any idea that he doesn't "want" the Throne. He specifically came to KL to be named King. Of course, this also contradicts his earlier declaration that he could "never be Lord of anything" since he's the 3ER now. This same emotionless King also smiles when he says he'll go look for Drogon.
In other words, the writers have no idea what Bran is at any given moment or what his powers are. And, none of this goes against what I stated overall which is that, that is not a bittersweet "ending." Bran hasn't been able to walk since the start of the show, he was never going to be a Knight. And, he's been the 3ER for three seasons. Thus, Bran ending as the same 3ER isn't "bittersweet" it's the same Bran he's been for a while now. The same as Ned Stark being dead isn't "bittersweet" as he's been dead for seven seasons.
I just concluded a full-season rewatch just to make sure I wasn't clinging to false hopes. I maintain that although "Winterfell" and especially "The Last of the Starks" had major issues the rest of the season ranges from great to outstanding. Did the writing fall apart in some fairly blatant ways? Yes, there's no denying it. But everyone brought their "A" game and, for me, managed to make up for it. (And there are moments of brilliant writing peppered throughout too -- and not just from Bryan.)
"The Iron Throne" still has me shaking the whole way through. In a good way.
"The Iron Throne" still has me shaking the whole way through. In a good way.
My feeling is not so much that it's perceived as too morally complex, but that a certain pattern of character development and plot arc is demanded here and found wanting.
After years of viewers ruefully commenting on George Martin's reputation for killing their favourite characters, it looks as if quite a few people have decided it all should have been tied up with a bow at the end. I've only read the episode plot summaries on Wikipedia, so obviously I could be missing something subtle but vital, but from the outside what we got looks like a reasonable extrapolation from earlier seasons.
I wouldn't expect an actor to flat out ever say he/she "fucking hates" a script they're in.
But if she burst out crying and had to go for a walk so long that she had blisters on her feet and confided in her mother that she didn't think she could do it ... I mean, how much more does the actor have to say, lol.
It wasn't positively received by them.
So there is a long behind the scenes documentary tonight in the same time slot?
It was tied up with a bow at the end. They needed to get Daenerys out of the way, so they suddenly cranked her characters traits up from a 5 to 11 between two episodes, then Jon killed her, her dragon left, and all the Starks got what they wanted while everyone else in the story lost all agency or motivation and voted for the Starks to win Most Popular and Tyrion to win Most Smartest. It was fan fiction level. Plain and simple.
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Exactly... the leaps of logic required to facilitate their rush to tie things up with a bow at the end was the entire problem with this season (and the last, to an extent).
The thing is I feel GRRM always hinted that Daenyeres had a darker side but he did it quite badly, and D&D took it to an absurd extreme by having her randomly decide it was time to perform strafing runs on civilians.
It would take multiple extra seasons to justify her reaching the point of seeing innocents as collateral, but I personally reckon jt would have been a bad idea regardless. I feel it would have been a better heel turn if she had realised she would have had no choice other than to burn civilians and instead chose to pull everyone out of the city or something. To be honest anything would have been better. Litteraly anything.
You are right that fan fiction writing in regards to the other characters. In particular I feel like making a thread at some point about how awful that new council scene is. Every little aspect of it is bad. Front he selection of characters to the dialogue, arcs being rendered undone and general tone.
I loved that scene in the Small Council. Bearing in mind that the last episode I saw with Tyrion he murdered his erstwhile mistress and then murdered his father on the privy, I have to agree that it's a pitch perfect way to please the fans. And yet there are quite a few fans who, as fans often do, think it was done all wrong.
I write here as somebody who has witnessed fans in other franchises argue endlessly over perceived writing sins by immensely talented writers. It's the norm for fandom, not an exception, hence my extreme scepticism about the CinemaSins-level literary critique being raised here.