I sure hope mods reached out to those erroneously banned with an apology. Especially for those who used their experiences as trans to support their opinion.
OT: Clinton's opinion is still shit.
OT: Clinton's opinion is still shit.
Hillary Clinton Says We Must Be ‘Sensitive’ to Transphobia
- Thread starter bulbasort
- Start date
Telling people to "shut the fuck up" and calling them "assholes" violates forum rules no matter how you slice it. I thought the bans were fair.
And yes, Clinton is still shit.
We are not different types of women. We are the same type of women - women, period - who differ in sex-characteristic traits that have nothing to do with our gender identity.
The way your post was written implied that inside a hospital trans women aren't women (for medical reasons). Even here you say that trans women are women to everyone, except for on their medical records.
That framing places trans women as women (with exceptions) instead of as women.
I have no doubt that you don't mean any harm and it's just awkward phrasing, but it is mildly abrasive all the same. especially in an already heated thread.
When you challenge someone's entire existence in the first place you deserved to be called for it and we should probably do more to be understanding to those people than act like absolute decorum to the rules comes before the questioning of one's existence.
Exactly. Women are women whether they were born with a vagina or not. It ain't rocket science, you are who you are and all anyone should do is accept that, even if they don't understand or agree with it.
We may have different life experiences but I'm hardly gonna sit there and say "you aren't a real woman because you haven't suffered as much as me". I just don't get TERFs. Never have. It isn't about comparing scars, it's about making sure the next generation don't have quite so many.
I think most here acknowledge trans women are women, but reducing the cis-trans distinction to mere checkbox on one's medical record ignores the unique issues and challenges both groups face (e.g., trans women are disproportionately affected by sexual violence, cis women are disproportionately affected by restrictions on reproductive rights, etc.). In a perfect world, I agree that there should be no need for further delineation from a public standpoint, however, for the purposes of tackling these challenges in our decidedly imperfect world, the distinction still seems pragmatic, and not any more controversial than intersectional distinctions between the experiences of white women and women of color, or between women born into wealth and women born into poverty. We should be able to acknowledge these subsets of the female experience and the unique challenges they entail without sacrificing solidarity.
User Banned (1 Week): Inappropriate Pedantry over Multiple Posts in a Sensitive Thread
I mean, there are clearly areas of difference that just can't be ignored.
Racist/homophobic/sexist/transphobic/etc people have been coddled their entire existence. How about we start throwing some of that hand wringing empathy to the victims of their abuse?
In short, shut up, Hillary.
I am so sick of this notion that the onus is on the oppressed to educate and sympathize with their oppressors. We always have to contort ourselves to forgive their bullshit, but they would never extend that to us were the balance of power be on the other foot.
Just shut the fuck up and stop inserting yourselves into other peoples lives. Someone's sexual identity isn't anyone's business but their own. Let them live their lives in peace, with the same rights and privileges as everyone else. It isn't a hard concept to grasp.
In short, shut up, Hillary.
I am so sick of this notion that the onus is on the oppressed to educate and sympathize with their oppressors. We always have to contort ourselves to forgive their bullshit, but they would never extend that to us were the balance of power be on the other foot.
Just shut the fuck up and stop inserting yourselves into other peoples lives. Someone's sexual identity isn't anyone's business but their own. Let them live their lives in peace, with the same rights and privileges as everyone else. It isn't a hard concept to grasp.
Differences that some people can't ignore (because they're transphobes).
Some women are born with dicks. Their genitalia has literally *nothing* to do with the fact that they're women.
omg lol
the headline sounded good until i realized she meant we should be sensitive *to transphobes*
as a trans person- when people talk about trans people and our right to exist in gendered spaces, the conversation is always centered around the feelings of cis people, particularly transphobic cis people - what about my feelings as a trans woman? do they matter in this discussion?
there is imo no distinction between 'just asking questions!'/'i'm just a little uncomfortable' and ~*real*~ transphobia - these 'softer' wordings are still transphobic sentiments, they are othering trans people and considering them "really" their birth sex, or something more in between, instead of their gender identity. cis people don't get to decide what a trans person's gender is. if you feel uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a trans woman (note that trans men never seem to come up in this discussion) - maybe examine *why* you feel that way, and why those reasons might be rooted in transmisogyny, instead of digging in your heels.
how about instead of being sensitive to transphobic people, we try being sensitive to trans people? idk, seems like it might be worth a try?
the headline sounded good until i realized she meant we should be sensitive *to transphobes*
as a trans person- when people talk about trans people and our right to exist in gendered spaces, the conversation is always centered around the feelings of cis people, particularly transphobic cis people - what about my feelings as a trans woman? do they matter in this discussion?
there is imo no distinction between 'just asking questions!'/'i'm just a little uncomfortable' and ~*real*~ transphobia - these 'softer' wordings are still transphobic sentiments, they are othering trans people and considering them "really" their birth sex, or something more in between, instead of their gender identity. cis people don't get to decide what a trans person's gender is. if you feel uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a trans woman (note that trans men never seem to come up in this discussion) - maybe examine *why* you feel that way, and why those reasons might be rooted in transmisogyny, instead of digging in your heels.
how about instead of being sensitive to transphobic people, we try being sensitive to trans people? idk, seems like it might be worth a try?
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This post really got under my skin. I do believe that shouting at people to fuck off is unproductive, but understand that first off, that you're callously telling my girlfriend that she just doesn't understand the bigotry that she faces every fucking day.
Additionally, I was a mod for almost two years here and spent an unbelievable amount of time dealing with people here who don't think I'm a woman and would prefer I never post here again. To see you basically post "good riddance!" hurts, which I'm sure is what you wanted. I give up, you won.
Yeah, sure, everybody has some bigotry they have to work through. But when you put it out there that you're "uncomfortable" or "just asking questions", you're not really looking to empathize; you're throwing the marginalized under the bus and calling out to the greater public for a bigotry support group.
If you're looking to feel better about yourself, therapy is a popular and recommended thing nowadays. Work out your bullshit there.
If you're looking to feel better about yourself, therapy is a popular and recommended thing nowadays. Work out your bullshit there.
I would never tell your girlfriend or anyone else that her feelings about her experiences are invalid or don't matter, but I think we need to have certain criteria for objectively defining bigotry and prejudice beyond an individual saying something is bigotry and that's the end of the discussion. That's just my opinion, though.
Also, my comment about most of the mods from the first year or two being gone now was not at all intended to say "good riddance." I just wanted to point out that a lot of the staff has largely changed, since the comment I was replying to was about how how previous infractions were actioned against.
I didn't say that. I said there are differences a cisgender woman and transgender woman do have differences that will lead to different lives and it's foolish to not accept that. I you can be 100% accepting of transgender issues and identity but those differences still exist. It often feels like bringing up those differences is treated like it's trying to "other" them. I get that is done, but that isn't what is meant here.
For sure, I realized that after the response to mine. The main point of my post is that separating people into different categories does nothing but give people somewhere they can point to when someone calls them out on discrimination.
I was just trying to preempt the people who go "Well what about if you have to go to the hospital? Don't they have to still treat it differently?", and the better way to deal with that would have been to just tell them to fuck off or ignore them entirely.
Men born in different eras will lead different types of lives. Women born in different countries will lead different types of lives. Are they different types of men and women? Absurd.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but I imagine that for the vast majority of people out there, it's hard if not impossible to wrap their heads around the concept that gender and biology have absolutely no relationship. Most people I've even had this discussion with in real life have reacted as if they were being told to believe that the earth is flat even if they fully accept that transgender and gender dysphoria is a real thing.
The differences have nothing whatsoever to do with our gender identity. And every woman that exists has different experiences.
You realize transgender is an adjective and not a noun, right?
Our gender identity, unlike the Earth being flat, is real and evidence-based. Maybe pick a better example.
That it's hard for people to accept the fact that gender identity does not equate to biology doesn't change the fact that biology does not determine gender. The world has believed lots of inaccurate, wrongheaded ideas in the past. They can learn, if they care to.
This is just being dense. For example, I have a transgender woman who is a friend. There are aspects of her life that are simply different than my friend who is a cisgender woman. It is okay to acknowledge those differences. Nobody is saying that makes them "not a woman".
I am Eritrean. I am not African American, even though I do live in America. There are differences between my life and background from those that are African American. Me acknowledging those difference does not mean I'm "not black". And sometimes those differences can be meaningful depending on the context. And when it comes to transgender/cisgender, it's not only meaningful in the hospital. I'm saying all this 100% with the mindset that this isn't about separating transgender women or men as being "others". It is frustrating when you get put on blast for not saying what the crowd is saying verbatim, even if others are being disgusting towards transgender people.
I voted for her in 2016, as she was obviously better than the alternative. I wasn't happy about it. I bloody hope I won't be put in the same position this time round, and given current polling, I am hopeful
OP
OP
Take the example you just posted. You're only acknowledging an ethnic difference, not a racial difference. Even though you are Eritrean, do you believe others see you as simply black? Because I think the point being made by some posters here (and please correct me if I'm wrong, posters) is that the distinction between cis- and trans- is destructive when simply seeing them as female or a woman is what is preferred and is how every woman should be seen.
That's probably because the people still arguing it don't want the conversation to evolve. They've latched on to that point because it's literally the only thing they can continue to whinge about that could pass for "reasonable dialogue."
Did you literally just "I have a trans friend"? Trans women are women, trans men are men. Any differences in our life experiences from cis people that exist are due to bigotry and sometimes due to medical aspects which are not the same as gender and are entirely private. Those differences are simply not relevant.
Wow, we have actually reached the "I have a friend who is _____!" defense. Never thought I'd see the day...
isn't this like... hillarys thing though? Like Gay rights and all that jazz was not her fucking cup of tea until it was straight up legal and normal and casual and now people who are fans would try and gaslight the shit out of her non-commital bullshit to gay people for the 20+ years before she had to change her tune?
This is 0% surprising. Queue another 15 years when people who want her to be governor of the moon or whatever are gonna try and say she's always respected all angles of LBGT people.
Anyways she's old and boring now. Lost her chance to fuckin Donald Trump of all people. Just walk away, lady.
This is 0% surprising. Queue another 15 years when people who want her to be governor of the moon or whatever are gonna try and say she's always respected all angles of LBGT people.
Anyways she's old and boring now. Lost her chance to fuckin Donald Trump of all people. Just walk away, lady.
Nah fuck that. Someone telling me that I am a lesser person and invalidating my existence can FUCK OFF RIGHT INTO THE SUN! That you came here to basically tell off us trans folks to shut up and sit down makes you a HUGE ASSHOLE!
I'm not saying "Don't just call me black" and I'm not saying "Don't just call transgender women as simply being women". All I'm saying is that the differences can be meaningful at times and it's not right to cast anything that tries to point out the meaningfulness of those differences as being transphobic.
And to reiterate, these differences are much smaller than what is in common. But they can at times be important differences and I think transgender people know this and act accordingly. I don't act like I personally have been impacted by slavery because I wasn't. I am sure a transgender woman who has relatively recently transitioned isn't going act like she has dealt with a lot of the issues women have dealt with socially in their lives. Just like a cisgender woman shouldn't try and claim to be an experienced person on issues transgender women deal with.
See, this is what I mean. The moment you start to diverge in any way on this, you're labeled as transphobic. There is no communication. It's just "Follow our prescribed thoughts or else you are transphobic."
And another one...
you obviously didn't read my post. I never said anything like "I'm not transphobic because I have a transgender friend". How can you not obviously see how much this is just trying to find some reason to call me a transphobic.
What a coninkidink! So do I! In fact, they've been posting right here explaining why this is transphobic, so maybe listen to the trans folk in this thread rather than trying to use a vague "friend" source to invalidate them!
I said "I have a transgender woman who is a friend" and you quoted me saying "I have a trans friend", which I know is an offensive term. Stop this.
nobody's saying there aren't differences on an individual level between individual women's lives. again, just as there might be differences between a woman who grew up in poverty and a woman who grew up wanting for nothing.
congrats, you're a transphobe
Rearranging the words doesn't change what you're doing. You used the fact that you have a friend who is trans to defend your own false and transphobic statements. The fact is, those differences you keep talking about? They're not relevant. Trans women are women and trans men are men, pointing out differences such as that is exactly the kind of transphobia we're trying to eradicate. Our medical history is our private medical history. The bigotry we face is bigotry that we want to eliminate. Those differences are irrelevant to the fact that trans women are women and trans men are men. Pointing those superficial and irrelevant differences out only serves to reinforce the idea that trans people are "others".
I was referring to Biden, who I personally view as a shitty candidate from the same mold.
I'm not gonna even entertain you with a valid repsone. Grow up, pal.
what term do you think is offensive here? trans is short for transgender it's used every day by lots of trans people to describe themselves