Mm, I dunno; to me, Cell represents a culmination of everything Goku's gone up against, and it was nice to have it as a sequel to the Red Ribbon Army arc.
[Hot Take] Dragon Ball would have been a better story if It Concluded with the Frieza arc
- Thread starter jman1954goat
- Start date
YEah the bosses get harder and tougher and everyhting scales up, but it's finite and the series does end. I dont count Super or GT, the series ends after Boo for me.
Actually I would say the opposite, which is why the Cell Saga/finale stands out among the rest:
SSJ2 Gohan so thoroughly outclasses the penultimate enemy that what should feel climatic feels like an absolute certainty. For once, it is our heroes who have the power edge over the villain, to the point you start to pity Cell getting his ass whooped.
No, you have to go to Cell as it closes out the Gohan story with him surpassing Goku and closes out Vegeta who goes in retirement after finally turning the corner when Trunks got murked.
I think I'm mostly in agreement with OP. It's such a rare occurrence. I know power levels always had some holes but they felt like a progression that made sense as we worked from Saiyan to Frieza. Trunk's reveal was cool because of what had been built up but the idea that Androids (cyborgs) could be so strong just didn't ring true with everything that came before. Cell's explanation was better but I still thought he was mostly OP for the show's purposes rather than anything logical in-universe.
I get that but being the 4th character to reach a level in a short period of time but doing it better than the other 3 just doesn't have the same impact as being the one and only person to achieve a power up that is a thousand year old legend.
End Goku's stint as MC after Cell. Continue with Gohan as MC, including Super Saiyaman. Gohan is such a better character it's not even funny. As Gohan as MC would probably mean Piccolo gets more of a role, Objectively making DBZ better.
And that is true initially, except Cell has one final trump card. He blows himself up, taking Goku - aka THE MAIN PROTAGONIST OF THE FUCKING SHOW - with him. But then using his combined Namek regeneration abilities and Saiyan ability to become stronger after a near-death situation, he's now EVEN FUCKING STRONGER than he was as Perfect Cell. And oh yeah, he burns out Gohan's arm. He's BARELY able to hold back the final Kamehameha, and only defeats Cell after a cheap shot from Vegeta, who also goes through one hell of an arc in this saga.
You can throw in the Cell Saga... Which culminates in the completion of both Goku's and Gohan's arc. *That* was the best place to end the series.
Agreed. Plus you could have a really good arc for Vegeta as well, who has wanted to prove he was the strongest from day one, and now he's not just not even stronger than Goku, but not even stronger than Goku's KID. Also him now being married with a Dad provides a lot of growth for him.
The Cell arc was the worst arc and those cheerleading Gohan as the MC are weird. Gohan was shoved into the background for a majority of that arc.
Goku = DB
Goku = DB
Glad cell is winning. And I chose cell saga not because of gohan (he is a garbage character but that is for another thread), but because of all the time shenanigans. That shit was sick af.
Oh and the androids were some terminator shit.
The build up and then sudden terror when they realize they can't sense them. Their one advantage is gone. Knowing where they were and when they were didn't matter anymore. The searching... The searching... Until THE Z FIGHTERS ARE FOUND by them!
Then, the whole time, this fucking slithering green alien looking motherfucker is sucking the life out of people and slowly getting stronger!
Oh and the androids were some terminator shit.
The build up and then sudden terror when they realize they can't sense them. Their one advantage is gone. Knowing where they were and when they were didn't matter anymore. The searching... The searching... Until THE Z FIGHTERS ARE FOUND by them!
Then, the whole time, this fucking slithering green alien looking motherfucker is sucking the life out of people and slowly getting stronger!
If you have to pick one single spot, then yeah, after the series had been cracking jokes about how Goku must be an alien for years, having it wrap up with him offing the galactic tyrant who destroyed his home planet and consequently caused Goku to be sent to Earth in the first place is a good narrative bookend.
But ultimately, Dragon Ball is the story of Goku's continuing adventures, and the series has done a pretty good job of coming up with satisfying new people for him to punch since then.
But ultimately, Dragon Ball is the story of Goku's continuing adventures, and the series has done a pretty good job of coming up with satisfying new people for him to punch since then.
Goku's Super Saiyan transformation IS awesome, but assuming we are ending the series, then it would leave a rather anti-climatic taste. We would never see the form pushed to it's limit unless Toriyama adjusted Frieza's final form to pose a proper challenge to it. Which makes it necessary for the story to continue, including the return of Vegeta and other new characters to supply the demand for a post-super Saiyan scenario.
In the sense of ending the story, I think Frieza dying by the spirit bomb would be a powerful end. It would signal the hard, combined effort of everyone working together to bring an end to Frieza's empire. And without Super-saiyan being introduced, I feel like people would be satisfied with the power ceiling at that point and also Vegeta having a decent characters arc as a villain not-redeemed, but still a victim of Frieza who got to die fighting him.
Cell, Gohan surpasses his father and takes over as Earths new protector and the series ends with Goku "staying dead".
If it were the ending, they would have altered it just enough to remove the cliffhanger
Dragonball isn't really the kind of story that needs to end. It's a simplistic fighting story that doesn't have compelling dramatic arcs beyond a few tidbits of characters having powerful moments. The narrative involved in DB isn't something that requires wrapping things up as it's more based on perennial hype building.
It's like if Rocky, Apollo and Adonis Creed stayed in their primes until their 80s - there wouldn't be a need to have them stop taking on new challengers while throwing in some simple storylines around that.
It's like if Rocky, Apollo and Adonis Creed stayed in their primes until their 80s - there wouldn't be a need to have them stop taking on new challengers while throwing in some simple storylines around that.
No.
I think both Android/Cell and Majin Boo are both good ways to "look back" at the original DB. Android/Cell being the result of Goku's fight with the Red Ribbon Army and Majin Boo being a tonal and thematic return to the goofy mysticism of the original series.
I think both Android/Cell and Majin Boo are both good ways to "look back" at the original DB. Android/Cell being the result of Goku's fight with the Red Ribbon Army and Majin Boo being a tonal and thematic return to the goofy mysticism of the original series.
I really disagree here. I like Gohan as a character, but I like him in the way he's changed from a a reluctant kid fighter to a family and career man who only fights when it's absolutely necessary. I don't think he works as a main protagonist as well as Goku and he's better as a support ultimately.
Cell saga or Buu getting wrecked by gohan or vegetas sacrifice would have been great endings to their respective arcs.
Goku being the one to finish off buu after the saga became far too long was a big mistake imo. End of frieza saga would have had unfinished setups, especially gohan. Vegetas sacrifice should have triggered gohan to blow a damaged buu to kingdom come or something like that.
Goku being the one to finish off buu after the saga became far too long was a big mistake imo. End of frieza saga would have had unfinished setups, especially gohan. Vegetas sacrifice should have triggered gohan to blow a damaged buu to kingdom come or something like that.
Making Gohan the main character of a series run on cathartic super powered fights would involve betraying everything the character was about. Dude doesn't like fighting and he'll step up to protect the Earth but he'll never be the fight happy berserker a series like Dragon Ball asks for.
Great Saiyaman is funny, you could recapture a lot of the spirit of OG Dragon Ball through him, but when it got back to world ending death matches that's just not Gohan's character. He'd just end up this miserable angry dude constantly forced to fight when all he wants to do is get a job and hang out with his wife and daughter.
Naw. Cell arc was the culmination of the true main character of Z. Gohan. They had a good thing going with Teen Gohan in HS but they ruined all of that.
If it HAD to definitely end, then the Cell arc would have been it. But y'all have wrong opinions if y'all think the Buu saga and Dragon Ball Super aren't still extremely fun to watch.
Cell saga because everything from DB to DBZ comes full circle..well almost
An enemy of Gokus from DB (red ribbon), a villain that encompasses all DBZ characters, Son surpasses father, Goku decides earth is finally okay with out him.
it was honestly the perfect spot for it to end though Buus death was awesome
An enemy of Gokus from DB (red ribbon), a villain that encompasses all DBZ characters, Son surpasses father, Goku decides earth is finally okay with out him.
it was honestly the perfect spot for it to end though Buus death was awesome
Nah to frieza. Way too much important stuff comes afterward and if it ended there the show would have been great and ended on a high note, sure, but it would not have the fandom it has today because it would have been too short to generate it.
Maybe to Cell. It brought some great development to Goku finally realizing he can step aside and let others take over and is the perfect baton handoff to the next generation.
Buu saga gets into some fun stuff that I enjoyed, especially Vegeta's jealousy coming to a head and him turning "evil" again. What a perfect and believable return to form that helped him realize what was really important and what he had to do to grow. Buu did unfortunately just turn back to Goku again though so it can be a bit frustrating.
Maybe to Cell. It brought some great development to Goku finally realizing he can step aside and let others take over and is the perfect baton handoff to the next generation.
Buu saga gets into some fun stuff that I enjoyed, especially Vegeta's jealousy coming to a head and him turning "evil" again. What a perfect and believable return to form that helped him realize what was really important and what he had to do to grow. Buu did unfortunately just turn back to Goku again though so it can be a bit frustrating.
That's the point. Gohan as reluctant hero and protector is much more interesting character drama than big dumb oaf Goku whos one character trait is that he wants to fight.
Gohan is very similar to The Hulk in that he is usually the strongest dude in the room but doesn't really care to fight.
I just feel there's so much potential for storytelling beyond Goku trains to get stronger...and does!
Honestly, could have stopped with Gohan beating Cell or Buu.
Yeah that's the problem. It's character drama, and Dragon Ball doesn't do character drama. It's goofy Shonen action.
Besides, eventually we'd get bored of Gohan constantly getting forced back into the fray and complaining that he just wants to sit down for a date with his wife.
Everything after androids/cell for me is filler lmao
That arc was insane
It was a crazy as hell Rollercoaster ride from start to finish.
That arc was insane
It was a crazy as hell Rollercoaster ride from start to finish.
Freeza is where it was "supposed" to end which is pretty apparent. That said, I've really enjoyed Super, and the Android/Cell/Buu sagas were a necessity to get the pieces in place for that. Android and Cell can be enjoyable. Buu was an absolute slog.
That dynamic sounds infinitely more interesting that what we got.
Besides, eventually someone else would have/should have taken over.
Most of super after the resurrection of Freiza arc is bad too. Goku Black arc is half ok, but the writing is all over the place.