[Hot Take] Dragon Ball would have been a better story if It Concluded with the Frieza arc

[jph139]

"It should have ended at Freeza" is a very Z-centric view; like, it obviously couldn't end with the Saiyan Saga, since it has a ton of loose ends (Vegeta flying off, most of the main cast dead and not really happy about it, no Dragon Balls left). So Freeza is the first "natural" cut-off point. But if you're including Dragon Ball, it's like, the third or fourth. You could just as easily chop it off in a bunch of places, because that's how serialized manga is structured. You keep it going until it gets cancelled, unless you have the clout to end it on your own terms.

You could end the whole thing with Goku and Chi-Chi's wedding and it's more coherent as a universe - no weird space alien twists thrown in there.

 

[SasaBassa]

Cell saga taking its rightful place in the poll.

Bow down to T Gohan yall

 

[Weiss]

That dynamic sounds infinitely more interesting that what we got.

Besides, eventually someone else would have/should have taken over.

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I don't know about you but I don't think Dragon Ball, a light hearted adventure through a barely defined fantasy land mixing up with big explosive fights, would be significantly improved by a main character who would really rather be anywhere else.

Like, Peter Parker complains about being Spider-Man a lot, he suffers for it, but swinging from buildings is a lot of fun.

 

[SilverX]

The Frieza saga, IMO, is the most overrated saga in DB history.

Gohan, Krillin, and Bulma are on a green planet looking for dragon balls where EVERY area looks exactly the same. Then Vegeta arrives and sneaks around killing henchmen and stealing dragon balls, only to be completely fucked when the Ginyu Force arrives. They struggle until... you guessed it... Goku arrives to save them all! Only somehow he switches bodies with Ginyu and when he gets it back, he is out of commission once again. Bummer. Everything should be fine though.... OH FUCK Frieza confronts them because Vegeta forces them to summon the Namekian Dragon! At least Piccolo was revived and is super strong because he found some dying Namekian to merge with, but nope that motherfucker Frieza can transform and we only know that because that asshole Vegeta told him to. Frieza keeps on transforming but Vegeta cleverly realizes that Saiyans are brokenly powerful and can just repeatedly severely damage themselves and heal to get super power boosts (Goku should have just done that instead of training in the spaceship). But nope Frieza can transform again, into his FINAL form, and beats the life out of Vegeta, and Goku awakens only to watch him cry and die. Goku fights Frieza, can't keep up, uses Kaioken x20 the whole time and still is outmatched, but luckily he was building a huge Spirit Bomb the entire time! Goku fires the Spirit Bomb, makes a hole in the planet (instead of Namek just plain exploding right there...) and everything is great because Frieza is dead! Nope, he is alive and kills Krillin the moment they realize he is still standing. Boom, Goku watches his friend blow up and dramatically goes Super Saiyan. Frieza gets his ass kicked and the reveals he can transform power up to 100% and actually fight on par with SSJ Goku, even with giant muscles that would later be revealed to make them too slow for any fighter to use in battle (except not there). 20 episodes later, Frieza gets sliced by his own twin Destructo disc thing and Goku lets him live, but nope Frieza can't let him go and Goku screams "You fool!" and blasts right back at that bitch to kill him. Only it doesn't. But Namek explodes and Goku escapes, but the planet exploding doesn't kill Frieza either somehow. After all that shit, Frieza still gets to come to Earth to try and kill everyone and is finally killed (for DBZ) by a time traveling Super Saiyan from the future in the next saga.

I just don't get the appeal

 

[black070]

This is the coldest of takes.

 

[Tace]

Cell Games is a much better stopping point imo, but both takes are decades old

 

[Sulik2]

Nope cell was the real end, because it finished off the Gohan arc that was building through all of Z. Goku died and handed off protecting the world to his son who had surpassed him. It was narratively the right end for the story and it was supposed to end there for a reason.

 

[Yuli Ban]

Dragon Ball is a kung fu serial, and anyone who's ever watched kung fu movies knows that the stakes can always get higher for ridiculous reasons. Freeza being the end of the line could've worked... but so could Piccolo Daimao. In some alternate universe we'd be discussing how Dragon Ball ended perfectly with Goku shooting himself through Daimao's chest and laughing at these ideas of him being an alien and glowing gold against a tyrannical space land shark. Likewise in another alternate universe, people are pitying the idea that OG Dragon Ball could have possibly ended with Boo (e.g. the "Dork Age") and that we totally missed out on the single greatest stretch of the story that would have started right after when Toriyama got a second wind circa '95 or '97.
Personally I'm glad it went on as long as it did and angst less about "when it should've ended" and more about "how bad the original dub was that it ruined fan discussion of the series for the next 20+ years" (though did give us copious material for Abridged)

 

[Stalker]

Nope cell was the real end, because it finished off the Gohan arc that was building through all of Z. Goku died and handed off protecting the world to his son who had surpassed him. It was narratively the right end for the story and it was supposed to end there for a reason.

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It was never supposed to end after the Cell Saga this is some fandom bullshit that's just became accepted fact.

 

[denx]

The Buu saga would had been much better if they had actually gone through with making Gohan the protagonist.

As it stands though I think the Cell saga would had been a good place to stop, what with Goku passing the torch to Gohan and all that.

 

[Syntsui]

Cell arc concluded everyone's development extremely well. It would have been the perfect closure.

 

[Huncho_Houdini]

I love the Buu saga. But Cell would have been a better narrative end.

 

[Bishop89]

Dbz didn't start getting into GOAT tier until AFTER Namek, so hard disagree OP.

 

[BasilZero]

Felt like Cell saga was the best place to end it

 

[wisdom0wl]

That Future Trunks entrance makes this a hard no

it doesn't matter that he's useless the rest of the time

 

[Zyrox]

Hot take: Dragon Ball is still great. Tournament of Power and Super Broly were very entertaining.
I see no problem with Dragon Ball continuing as long as the creators want.

 

[TheodoreXGolbez]

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Goku Time the game .

 

[Truly Gargantuan]

I don't know about you but I don't think Dragon Ball, a light hearted adventure through a barely defined fantasy land mixing up with big explosive fights, would be significantly improved by a main character who would really rather be anywhere else.

Like, Peter Parker complains about being Spider-Man a lot, he suffers for it, but swinging from buildings is a lot of fun.

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It's not like Gohan HAS to stay as reluctant hero. It just gives him room to grow. And the fact that he doesn't have poop for brains like his dad makes him infinitely more interesting as a character.

 

[Weiss]

It's not like Gohan HAS to stay as reluctant hero. It just gives him room to grow. And the fact that he doesn't have poop for brains like his dad makes him infinitely more interesting as a character.

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The single thing Gohan fans keep coming back to is the part where he's so traumatized by Android 16's death that he ends up becoming a horrible sadistic rage monster who deliberately prolongs his murder of Cell to make it as painful and humiliating as possible. That's how Gohan reacts to fighting. It's never going to be fun, and Dragon Ball is all about fun almost consequence free cathartic over the top Shonen fights.

What you're asking for is a hypothetical within a hypothetical, where Gohan is not only the hero but he's also written contrary to what was established about him in his most pivotal moment. Toriyama saw in him that the kid just doesn't like to fight, that's all.

 

[DeliciousSunnyD!]

Yeah OP, I fully agree with you. This is not a hot take, it's a 100% reasonable and appropriate take.

As a kid, I could find some things I liked with the anime post Namek, but I knew even then that it dropped in quality and the stakes had been truly sapped out from the series.

Like you say, DB after Frieza turns into basically retread after retread, though this is basically the case with it for everything after King Piccolo if we're being fully honest.

But King Piccolo -> Piccolo (Jr.) -> Saiyans -> Frieza's Forces -> Frieza felt like a much more natural and "believable" escalation of force and threats than the Androids/Cell/Buu, which are all over the top world destroyers that get more and more contrived each time.

Haven't paid any attention to any of the Super era stuff so I can't really comment on it, but I have little interest in any of that stuff tbqh.

Goku dying after defeating the universe's strongest foe after becoming the legendary Super Saiyan was definitely the best closing point for the story.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

I fucking loved the Androids and Trunks + early Cell when he was all creepy and shit, so Cell.

 

[Jakenbakin]

I think by the time Frieza arc hits the scale is already ridiculous enough that it doesn't matter anymore. It became unending by blowing up to the universal scale they chose as soon as Z starts, really.

Cell Saga would be a good place to end it, but there's always that lingering suspicion that well, before Cell we had an intergalactic threat, so now there's a whole universe of potential out there.

It may as well just keep going once it hit that point, is how I voted. Dumbest thing Super did though was that whole "oh yeah we've got a whole universe of potential fighters LOL jk there's like 30 planets and they're mostly weaklings."

 

[Lord Azrael]

Freeza arc is better but Cell arc is a better narrative cap

 

[El Bombastico]

I can't think of a better finale than Goku dying for good and his son surpassing him in power and taking his place as protector of the earth.

Then Buu Saga came and shat all over that.

 

[EloquentM]

When you're cool like OP errythang a hot take

 

[HardRojo]

As a story yes, finishing it at the end of the Frieza arc would've been a great ending, but I'm glad the story continues because it have us great characters, growth and transformations. Your opinion is a fairly common one, OP.

 

[ZeroDS]

This take is a pretty cold one

 

[KamenSenshi]

Ending with Namek would be pretty great and probably the easier way to go. They could have always went with movies if they eventually wanted to keep it going. Even just the Android saga could make a decent trilogy, with History of Trunks as the second movie.

 

[King Fossil]

We get this great scene from Vegeta, then he is like lol nevermind for Buu saga.

 

[edo_kid]

Yes and no, Freeza arc would be a good ending point no doubt but the Android arc is too fantastic, and narratively ending with Goku passing the torch to Gohan was a better ending point in my opinion.

 

[Madao]

i think the Cell saga would be the better end point but Frieza would be a good second one.

 

[AlwaysSalty]

Cell saga for me. End it with Goku letting Gohan protect the earth.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Cell would've been the best place to end but, meh.

 

[jman1954goat]

"It should have ended at Freeza" is a very Z-centric view

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To be clear this is a Dragon Ball manga readers point of view.

I am fine with the story taken the swerve towards space many great things start as one thing and end as another.

The chimera ant arc and Modern attack on titan anime are very unrecognizable from season 1 but are still great.


Now it's true that saiyans should have been foreshadowed and introduced more organically but the concept is fine.

 

[Keuja]

I liked how it ended at Buu as originally planned. It is a kind of open conclusion with the discovery of Uub and give a glimpse of the new generation and how life goes on...

 

[DragonSJG]

Why do folks think Frieza should be the end?

 

[Funkybee]

Well if I must have to choose any of the sagas I'd choose Buu because it was too awesome not to have it and many existing characters got huge development (including the silly ones like goten/trunks which reminds me of kalifla) but personally I'm that die hard of a fan that I don't care what they create as long as there's Dragon Ball going on for as long as I live, I'll take it, lol.

 

[Deleted member 82064]

I still liked Cell saga. Especially the early parts where Cell loomed it's first victims. It was something out of horror movie. I stopped watching when the Boo saga just continued.

 

[VaanXSnake]

Bah, it should have end with Cell, everything else is really poor writing, DBS being the worst.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

You can throw in the Cell Saga... Which culminates in the completion of both Goku's and Gohan's arc. *That* was the best place to end the series.

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This right here is the right answer IMO. It's a proper send-off for Goku having to face with an old foe (the Red Ribbon Army) from his childhood/OG Dragon Ball and the culmination of Gohan's journey throughout the entirety of Z.

 

[TheWraith]

I appreciate all The Dragon Ball content we have and continue to get over the decades But I enjoy it just as a casual popcorn show that I don't think to Hard about.

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I think it's important to note here that Dragon Ball is first and foremost not a "show" but a manga series, that was adapted into an anime.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Why do folks think Frieza should be the end?

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Isn't that the whole thread

 

[Jinjo]

Z should've ended at Cell Saga. While the Buu saga feels a bit redundant, I would not want that the entire series stopped before it happened. Super has been fantastic.

 

[Kazuhira]

Cell saga for me, they were building up gohan's hidden power since the first episode of Z and the conclusion was perfect.
I really like buu saga too, but mostly because of vegeta's character arc and finally making peace with goku, that was one hell of character development.
He is still competitive with goku after the buu saga but that's pretty much their relationship, he sees him as a brother in arms instead of someone he has to kill.
Anyway, Cell saga for me..it would need one extra episode to give some closure between vegeta and goku tho, like 'take care of my son and help him protect earth' or something.

 

[Deleted member 81680]

If it ended at Frieza or Cell I'd have been equally happy but at the same time I'll watch/read anything that's canon DB.

 

[Nikus]

That hot take I've been hearing since 1994

 

[Cup O' Tea?]

I absolutely agree with you OP. None of the shows villains live up to the standard set by Frieza imo.

I think part of why Frieza worked so well for me was his history with Vegeta. He stole Vegetas birthright first by enslaving his people, then killing his father and wiping out his home planet and putting saiyans on the endangered species list. It doesnt get much more personal than that.

Goku was obviously pissed to see his best friend killed but he didnt really have much of a history with Frieza before Namek. Even when Frieza recognised his resemblance to Bardock and taunted Goku, it had no effect on him because he didn't really know or care about his origins. There is something ironic about Goku being the one who avenges the saiyan race and something very tragic about Vegeta not being able to.

 

[Waggles]

Buu saga is really fun, and should have been a gohan centric story to finish up everything.

That said, with what we actually got, cell saga is a really good end point.

 

[jman1954goat]

I think it's important to note here that Dragon Ball is first and foremost not a "show" but a manga series, that was adapted into an anime.

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Yeah I read dragon Ball as a manga for the original runs content. Did not watch dragon ball or dragon ball Z other than a couple of episodes and clips.

I Watch the super show instead of manga because I don't like the new manga and it's author.

 

[Kuga]

I still think the end of the Cell saga would've been a great place to end it. Goku 'passed the torch' of Earth's protector to Gohan, who had finally harnessed his own hidden potential that was hinted at and shown briefly throughout DBZ.

The Buu saga was a fun ride too but narratively I don't see why it needed to exist and thrust Goku back into the spotlight.